The Colors R brighter, the Bond is much tighter
No Child's a failure Until the Blue Sailboat sails him away from his dreams Don't Ever Lose, Don't Ever Lose Don't Ever Lose Your Dreams | |
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bonatoc said:
And? All I'm saying is she's not going to talk about that in an Instagram post praising her boss a couple days after he died. Paisley Park is in your heart
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Whether or not an entourage should warn an authority when a close one is putting himself in danger,
[Edited 9/3/16 11:59am] The Colors R brighter, the Bond is much tighter
No Child's a failure Until the Blue Sailboat sails him away from his dreams Don't Ever Lose, Don't Ever Lose Don't Ever Lose Your Dreams | |
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Well, the first one? You could kill someone else if you don't do the speed limit. The second? You fall off the cliff, you die. And potentially kill someone else. The last two? Merely warnings β do at your own risk.
With health care, though, you have to consider that a person has a right to refuse treatment β every medical professional has to accept and respect that. They can warn, they can offer, but they can't FORCE you to take it. And yes, America has that, too β the idea that you have to help someone at immediate risk (basically, if they're bleeding and unconscious, or drowning), but you cannot force ongoing treatment on ANYONE, regardless of how much you want to. It's called preserving dignity, man. Even if dignity can kill you. You cannot force someone against their will to continue treatment if they don't want it, with the exception of children, who do not have the brains to consider the outcome of a choice. Once you become an adult, unless you have developmental problems? You have to let that person do them, whether you like it or not, unless you can prove (And again, this takes a very, VERY long time, and you better have a metric crapton of evidence to prove it!) they can't care for themselves.
I'm still waiting for proof that Prince could not care for himself. Sure, he was a bit weird, but that does not equal an inability to decide for himself. And apparently, Judith got him to agree to treatment, it was just too late. You can't keep him in the hospital once he's out of immediate danger without a court order. And believe me, that's a long fight. There are reason for that, you know: to protect citizens from being forcibly treated by the unscrupulous, which has happened many, MANY times over the course of history. I imagine myself inside your bedroom; oh, I imagine myself in your sky.
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[Edited 9/3/16 13:19pm] The Colors R brighter, the Bond is much tighter
No Child's a failure Until the Blue Sailboat sails him away from his dreams Don't Ever Lose, Don't Ever Lose Don't Ever Lose Your Dreams | |
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Man, really, you're ridiculouz. You want to be emotional and bratty, go right ahead; my point went right over your head, but you'll be okay when you grow up a little, man. I'm not going to argue with a child, BRO. Continue throwing a tantrum, that'z okay. I imagine myself inside your bedroom; oh, I imagine myself in your sky.
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The Colors R brighter, the Bond is much tighter
No Child's a failure Until the Blue Sailboat sails him away from his dreams Don't Ever Lose, Don't Ever Lose Don't Ever Lose Your Dreams | |
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I know you are sad and angry Prince died, we're all. But shit like that just happens: part of life, no matter how hard it is to swallow. If your boss tells you to go home, you will have to leave his office. RIP Prince: thank U 4 a funky Time... | |
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They were employees whom he hired himself. Of course these people had something to gain, isn't that why you go to work everyday: to earn money? Don't be so quick to judge please. RIP Prince: thank U 4 a funky Time... | |
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AMEN!!! RIP Prince: thank U 4 a funky Time... | |
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I don't deny the reality of the situation, nor the basic grounds for the actual law. I try to discuss how (I think) it should be. The Colors R brighter, the Bond is much tighter
No Child's a failure Until the Blue Sailboat sails him away from his dreams Don't Ever Lose, Don't Ever Lose Don't Ever Lose Your Dreams | |
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[Edited 9/4/16 3:26am] The Colors R brighter, the Bond is much tighter
No Child's a failure Until the Blue Sailboat sails him away from his dreams Don't Ever Lose, Don't Ever Lose Don't Ever Lose Your Dreams | |
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I think he was a danger to himself at least for that last week. Who says he agreed to see Dr. Kornfeld? That call went out on the 20th - not right after he got back from Moline. It appeared to be an intervention, which is usually planned without the addict/patient's consent. I have stated this before and been attacked for it, but I believe people around him knew and did nothing. The addict/patient should not be in control. Both Hazelden and the Mayo Clinic treat celebrities all the time. Why didn't someone approach either place? I have no sympathetic feelings for this woman. The only ones who seemed to have told the truth were the chef and his wife. | |
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The Colors R brighter, the Bond is much tighter
No Child's a failure Until the Blue Sailboat sails him away from his dreams Don't Ever Lose, Don't Ever Lose Don't Ever Lose Your Dreams | |
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I have always believed they were guarding his financial role in their lives as well as trying to keep his condition on the down low/out of the media, rather than any legal concern. However, I believe they had a moral obligation to move Heaven and Earth to help him. JMO | |
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Yes it is a lovely message and I don't want to stir things up too much especially since it is sadly too late for it now, but I too am starting to question things a little, in particular to what degree was this lady involved in her "personnal assistance" for Prince. How much did she see, how close did she get? I also notice from your additional comments above that she had a degree in Community Health so if this is the case she was presumably familiar and aware of certain issues that affect human lives. Basically what I am saying is that she was not stupid or ignorant. I too believe that not enough has been done for Prince in terms of helping him get out of whatever situation he was in. I find it odd and I don't think anything should have been considered an hindrance or used as an excuse to not help. It is possible that no one had the guts to do so. The people he employed may have been scared of his reaction(s). Very likely, since he is known to have had a certain temper at times. Whatever the reasons, it seems to me that no one really wanted to take that responsibility or dared to try anything for fear of the consequences in their own lives. Who knows what the real reasons were, but imo if you really care about someone that much, you try everything you can to save them, even if there are obstacles in the way. I would certainly do this for my close ones. But then again, it all depends on how much you do care about / love them in the first place. Life Matters | |
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Well said, CherryMoon57. | |
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Nobody ever said it was okay. Least of all me. You have to prove Prince was an addict, and that he couldn't decide for himself. And if you cannot understand the difference between an emergency as in life or death, they're going to die right this second if you do not intervene and a person who is gravely ill but in no immediate danger of dying, then I can't help you. If a person does not want to treat their illness, whatever it may be, you cannot force them to. You can disagree, you can try to talk them into treating themselves, but at some point, you have to accept that they're not going to, and deal with it. You can even remove yourself from their life if you do not agree with what they choose to do, but there's no real way you can MAKE them accept treatment if they want to. That's what I'm trying to get across to you,and what you need to freaking understand. You have no actual recourse to force your will upon them. 'Because I said so!β is not sufficient, nor should it be. You're not talking to a child, you're talking to an adult. Forced rehab has a very, VERY low chance of working over the long term -- because the addict has to want to continue the program you put them in. I have seen many a person who goes to forced rehab, come out, and go right back to what they were doing. The one that wanted to go in, however, will usually succeed because he wanted to do it. They might be ill, and not always in perfect control of themselves, but rarely do I find an addict to be unable to decide for themselves. Many of them can and do decide many, many things for themselves, including to get help. They have to sign consent forms too, you know, unless it's part of a court order. There are many, MANY reason why American laws are what they are, including the fact that in VERY recent history, gay and lesbian people were given electroshock therapy to force them to become straight (all that did was damage their brains by the way), ordered by their parents and given by unethical doctors simply because at the time, homosexuality was considered a mental illness. The laws are in place to protect the patient in queztion, not to zave the doctor. You may BELIEVE that Prince was unable to care for himself or decide for himself, but that does not make it fact. Merely your belief. You have to remember that these people you are treating with such contempt worked with him, spent time with him, knew him MUCH better than you ever could. The fact that you do not agree with what I am saying means nothing. You weren't there, you have no more idea of what was actually going on than I do. And I am going to take the word of Judith Hill, who was with Prince in Moline, over some dude a continent away armchair diagnosing from his computer. Fuck that.
I imagine myself inside your bedroom; oh, I imagine myself in your sky.
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And if they did everything they knew to do and it didn't work? Not every intervention will work. I imagine myself inside your bedroom; oh, I imagine myself in your sky.
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SpookyNopetopus said: You may BELIEVE that Prince was unable to care for himself or decide for himself, but that does not make it fact. Merely your belief. You have to remember that these people you are treating with such contempt worked with him, spent time with him, knew him MUCH better than you ever could. The fact that you do not agree with what I am saying means nothing. You weren't there, you have no more idea of what was actually going on than I do. And I am going to take the word of Judith Hill, who was with Prince in Moline, over some dude a continent away armchair diagnosing from his computer. Fuck that. I'm so sick of the armchair quarterbacks claiming all these people around him could/should have done something but didn't. We know nothing other than what the medical examiner said he died from. That's it. All this other stuff is noise that may or may not be true or may be partially true. There's no way one can judge with so little information. One of the reasons I posted this statement from his PA is because I was having negative thoughts about her and Kirk but then I read this statement and actually felt ashamed that I ever entertained those thoughts. And from that point forward I decided I'm staying away from all the stories and gossip around his death and am going to chose to celebrate his life rather than obsess over his death. Anyway with so few facts we have no right to question the people around him. [Edited 9/4/16 7:30am] Paisley Park is in your heart
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But it's not a question of who did what or didn't, at the time of the signature. The Colors R brighter, the Bond is much tighter
No Child's a failure Until the Blue Sailboat sails him away from his dreams Don't Ever Lose, Don't Ever Lose Don't Ever Lose Your Dreams | |
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