Menes said:

laurarichardson said:

Menes said:

Prince accidentally overd...ar Tribune

Are you talking about this report?

-- The confirmation has been all over the news. I am amazed at the number of people who are doubting the medical exeminer and the medical test from P's Doctor visit. If there is a criminal case it will based off of her conclusion.

I dont care what amazes you. Nothing you type amazes me .Where did the ME's office say anything of the sort about a blood test/ hair test? If you cant answer, find another member thread to comment about.

Terminal illness can not be ruled out simply because narcotic meds could have been obtained from an MD rather than Prince obtaining them in other ways. As much as the man liked to control his narrative, you just can't dismiss that.

Personally, I think Prince probably was suffering from drug induced pneumonia. A lot of his symptons were just like the actor's Corey Haim's when he died, including having those "flu-like" symptons a few weeks before.

so he had no rx for controlled meds in minnesota, but what about everywhere else in the world? has anybody said he had no pain rx's anywhere else? if he wanted to keep an illness private maybe he went elsewhere for treatment and or consult

Dibblekins said:

morningsong said:

I feel it was chronic more so than terminal. But then we are talking about a very stubborn man. So, perhaps he turned down doctor's advice, and tried a few alternative routes, maybe they didn't work for him and he just called himself settling on what worked best for him, unfortunately with tragic results. It happens all the time. People ignore or refuse and make their own rules. In most cases we applaude them.

I think now I moving closer to accepting the fact that he lived the life he wanted to live and that's pretty much all one can ask for. I'm not crazy about it but I guess it really isn't my call. I've got my own life to live and I know I've made a whole lot of mistakes that may not come out well in the end for me, so what more can I say about what decisions he made.

Indeed, Morningsong...And let's be honest, he wouldn't be the first man to be in denial about an underlying illness...In my experience, when it comes to visiting doctors about suspicious symptoms, burying their heads in the sand is par for the course!

ya, some people hate doctors, i do, because they are trained to think negative, to find things that are wrong. Well, if that's your mindset, you will find things wrong no matter what. and we all make mistakes, i eat bad foods and who's to say the crap in our food isn't directly killing us, yet most of us just keep right on consuming. It's still surprising that prince ended up this way and I still say it doesn't make a lot of sense for all the same reasons. Drug users usually show blatant signs of use, drug users usually cannot hide it for a long time. Most drug users end up fucking up their lives because drugs fuck up your brains, you cannot function competently for long periods on them. I've seen something as 'harmless' as marijuana just totally and completely change a man. there was no hiding it. I still don't think we know everything and ya, i do hate that now people can say that Prince was "just another junkie like the rest" but it's not just that that makes me doubt that it was just the drugs. And yes, every single thread outside of here some asshole say's he was "just like the rest", so no, i can't like that shit and i'm a little miffed that P gave them the chance to even say it.

morningsong said:

Dibblekins said:

I say it again - who is to know if a terminal / critical illness had actually been officially confirmed? P might have had one but been in denial of its symptomatology and not sought medical intervention for it! That doesn't mean there wasn't one running concurrently with a dependence on pain meds (which ultimately killed him).

But then we are talking about a very stubborn man. So, perhaps he turned down doctor's advice, and tried a few alternative routes, maybe they didn't work for him and he just called himself settling on what worked best for him, unfortunately with tragic results. It happens all the time. People ignore or refuse and make their own rules. In most cases we applaude them.

I could very easily see this being the case. Prince was an "I'll do it myself" type of person and always has been. I can certainly picture a scenario where he said something like "I'ts all in God's hands. I'll pray. What does that hospital and those doctors know about The Truth? Have they accepted Christ?"

Religion, in a lot of ways, is its own form of addiction and a drug unto itself. People seek it out and embrace it for the much the same reasons as they drink, smoke weed, use hard drugs, take anti depressants and self medicate. In many cases the worst amongst the most hardcore believers are worse than almost any drug addict I've encountered.

They never shut the fuck about it and have convinced themselves they've found The Solution.

At least with dope fiends, most of them aren't constantly up in your face and advocating you take this bad ass new drug they use that will solve all of your problems, insisting you try it. They might offer it to you and then move on when you say "no thanks" but I'll be damned if every born again hardcore Jesus finder and True Believer I know absolutely never ever shuts the fuck up about it, even after I've repeatedly told them it doesn't work for me and have politely asked them to knock it off. It's condescending, annoying and more than a little bit arrogant.

I've been to a few AA meetings in the past few years becausea I have an alcohol problem and one of the main things that keeps me from fully embracing it is how often the meetings and the conversations ultimately boil down to and always winds up with me somehow accepting Jesus Christ. It's like an Amway seminar. It's not gonna work for me. I'm 49 and very much an atheist.

Sorry. I went off on a rant there but the ultimate point I was trying to make was that for someone like Prince, who was SO high minded, SO self driven, independent and, yes, at times arrogant and off putting with his religous beliefs, I can easily see a situation develop with him where he actually wound up using his faith as a way of rationalizing the thing that ultimately led to his demise; thinking that God would take care of him, etc.

LOVESYMBOLNUMBER2 said:

so he had no rx for controlled meds in minnesota, but what about everywhere else in the world? has anybody said he had no pain rx's anywhere else? if he wanted to keep an illness private maybe he went elsewhere for treatment and or consult

I linked to this CDC article earlier.

http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/v...6516e1.htm

He may have got drugs elsewhere but that does not explain the numerous tablets found hidden in vitamin and aspirin bottles. Those tablets were illegal counterfeits of US medicines and some were laced with fentanyl. There is no legitimate explanation for having those drugs in your possession.

_

This is from the CDC article

_

Fentanyl is not currently formulated for oral administration in pill or tablet form, however, and its presence in pill form is a marker for an illicitly produced product.

I do not belive that fentanyl in tablet, pill or capsule form is a legitimate licensed product anywhere in the western world.

Just to be clear, I do not think he knowingly took fentanyl. He was taking black market hydrocodone for some reason and sadly fo him and and everyone who cared about him he ended up taking adulterated tablets which killed him.

[Edited 8/25/16 15:22pm]

[Edited 8/25/16 15:27pm]

[Edited 8/25/16 15:29pm]

laurarichardson said:

LyraB said:

LOVESYMBOLNUMBER2 said:

so he had no rx for controlled meds in minnesota, but what about everywhere else in the world? has anybody said he had no pain rx's anywhere else? if he wanted to keep an illness private maybe he went elsewhere for treatment and or consult

I linked to this CDC article earlier.

http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/v...6516e1.htm

He may have got drugs elsewhere but that does not explain the numerous tablets found hidden in vitamin and aspirin bottles. Those tablets were illegal counterfeits of US medicines and some were laced with fentanyl. There is no legitimate explanation for having those drugs in your possession.

_

This is from the CDC article

_

Fentanyl is not currently formulated for oral administration in pill or tablet form, however, and its presence in pill form is a marker for an illicitly produced product.

I do not belive that fentanyl in tablet, pill or capsule form is a legitimate licensed product anywhere in the western world.

Just to be clear, I do not think he knowingly took fentanyl. He was taking black market hydrocodone for some reason and sadly fo him and and everyone who cared about him he ended up taking adulterated tablets which killed him.

[Edited 8/25/16 15:22pm]

[Edited 8/25/16 15:27pm]

[Edited 8/25/16 15:29pm]

yes i know the watson fentanyl pills were from the street, but i was wondering why they would even say he had no rx's for controlled pills in just minnesota, why wouldn't they just say he has no rx for any controlled pills? as much as he travels, just wondering about him possibly being under a doctors care somewhere else for an underlying illness.

herb4 said:

morningsong said:

But then we are talking about a very stubborn man. So, perhaps he turned down doctor's advice, and tried a few alternative routes, maybe they didn't work for him and he just called himself settling on what worked best for him, unfortunately with tragic results. It happens all the time. People ignore or refuse and make their own rules. In most cases we applaude them.

I could very easily see this being the case. Prince was an "I'll do it myself" type of person and always has been. I can certainly picture a scenario where he said something like "I'ts all in God's hands. I'll pray. What does that hospital and those doctors know about The Truth? Have they accepted Christ?"

Religion, in a lot of ways, is its own form of addiction and a drug unto itself. People seek it out and embrace it for the much the same reasons as they drink, smoke weed, use hard drugs, take anti depressants and self medicate. In many cases the worst amongst the most hardcore believers are worse than almost any drug addict I've encountered.

They never shut the fuck about it and have convinced themselves they've found The Solution.

At least with dope fiends, most of them aren't constantly up in your face and advocating you take this bad ass new drug they use that will solve all of your problems, insisting you try it. They might offer it to you and then move on when you say "no thanks" but I'll be damned if every born again hardcore Jesus finder and True Believer I know absolutely never ever shuts the fuck up about it, even after I've repeatedly told them it doesn't work for me and have politely asked them to knock it off. It's condescending, annoying and more than a little bit arrogant.

I've been to a few AA meetings in the past few years becausea I have an alcohol problem and one of the main things that keeps me from fully embracing it is how often the meetings and the conversations ultimately boil down to and always winds up with me somehow accepting Jesus Christ. It's like an Amway seminar. It's not gonna work for me. I'm 49 and very much an atheist.

Sorry. I went off on a rant there but the ultimate point I was trying to make was that for someone like Prince, who was SO high minded, SO self driven, independent and, yes, at times arrogant and off putting with his religous beliefs, I can easily see a situation develop with him where he actually wound up using his faith as a way of rationalizing the thing that ultimately led to his demise; thinking that God would take care of him, etc.

I think this seems like a plausible explanation.

I know several people have wondered how he could nearly die on his way back from Atlanta and then seemingly ignore the risks and take a fatal OD.

I did wonder if he felt that surviving the airplane incident was a sign that God was looking out for him and that he could therefore continue to take the tablets - and if God wanted him to live he would save him again.

http://www.everydayhealth.com/drugs/fentanyl

Info on how dispensed ect.

herb4 said:

morningsong said:

But then we are talking about a very stubborn man. So, perhaps he turned down doctor's advice, and tried a few alternative routes, maybe they didn't work for him and he just called himself settling on what worked best for him, unfortunately with tragic results. It happens all the time. People ignore or refuse and make their own rules. In most cases we applaude them.

I could very easily see this being the case. Prince was an "I'll do it myself" type of person and always has been. I can certainly picture a scenario where he said something like "I'ts all in God's hands. I'll pray. What does that hospital and those doctors know about The Truth? Have they accepted Christ?"

Religion, in a lot of ways, is its own form of addiction and a drug unto itself. People seek it out and embrace it for the much the same reasons as they drink, smoke weed, use hard drugs, take anti depressants and self medicate. In many cases the worst amongst the most hardcore believers are worse than almost any drug addict I've encountered.

They never shut the fuck about it and have convinced themselves they've found The Solution.

At least with dope fiends, most of them aren't constantly up in your face and advocating you take this bad ass new drug they use that will solve all of your problems, insisting you try it. They might offer it to you and then move on when you say "no thanks" but I'll be damned if every born again hardcore Jesus finder and True Believer I know absolutely never ever shuts the fuck up about it, even after I've repeatedly told them it doesn't work for me and have politely asked them to knock it off. It's condescending, annoying and more than a little bit arrogant.

I've been to a few AA meetings in the past few years becausea I have an alcohol problem and one of the main things that keeps me from fully embracing it is how often the meetings and the conversations ultimately boil down to and always winds up with me somehow accepting Jesus Christ. It's like an Amway seminar. It's not gonna work for me. I'm 49 and very much an atheist.

Sorry. I went off on a rant there but the ultimate point I was trying to make was that for someone like Prince, who was SO high minded, SO self driven, independent and, yes, at times arrogant and off putting with his religous beliefs, I can easily see a situation develop with him where he actually wound up using his faith as a way of rationalizing the thing that ultimately led to his demise; thinking that God would take care of him, etc.

Well there are a lot of signs throughout his entire adult life that he didn't believe in fearing death. There have been a many of interviews where old colleages have told him he need to slow down or he'll die an early death, and he'd rebuff them as though to say so what. Even in his songs there's references to it. The only one I can think of at the moment is "Style" is no fear of death, that was pre-JW days. So whatcha gonna do when you have a person who feels such things strongly? I say, love 'em or leave 'em alone.

Hair tests are not reliable at recognising amounts of toxins when the amounts are very small, such as in the case of fentanyl. Toxins can also stay hidden to a degree, often in the liver, colon or body fat. Lesser amounts also retained elsewhere in the body, including the bones. Like with Skeletor.

fortuneandserendipity said:

Hair tests are not reliable at recognising amounts of toxins when the amounts are very small, such as in the case of fentanyl. Toxins can also stay hidden to a degree, often in the liver, colon or body fat. Lesser amounts also retained elsewhere in the body, including the bones. Like with Skeletor.

Despite what the laypeople around here say, the ME took tissue samples and time, so the odds are they ran all sorts of test to determine if it was acute or chronic toxicity, because that's their day job.

herb4 said:

morningsong said:

But then we are talking about a very stubborn man. So, perhaps he turned down doctor's advice, and tried a few alternative routes, maybe they didn't work for him and he just called himself settling on what worked best for him, unfortunately with tragic results. It happens all the time. People ignore or refuse and make their own rules. In most cases we applaude them.

I could very easily see this being the case. Prince was an "I'll do it myself" type of person and always has been. I can certainly picture a scenario where he said something like "I'ts all in God's hands. I'll pray. What does that hospital and those doctors know about The Truth? Have they accepted Christ?"

Religion, in a lot of ways, is its own form of addiction and a drug unto itself. People seek it out and embrace it for the much the same reasons as they drink, smoke weed, use hard drugs, take anti depressants and self medicate. In many cases the worst amongst the most hardcore believers are worse than almost any drug addict I've encountered.

They never shut the fuck about it and have convinced themselves they've found The Solution.

At least with dope fiends, most of them aren't constantly up in your face and advocating you take this bad ass new drug they use that will solve all of your problems, insisting you try it. They might offer it to you and then move on when you say "no thanks" but I'll be damned if every born again hardcore Jesus finder and True Believer I know absolutely never ever shuts the fuck up about it, even after I've repeatedly told them it doesn't work for me and have politely asked them to knock it off. It's condescending, annoying and more than a little bit arrogant.

I've been to a few AA meetings in the past few years becausea I have an alcohol problem and one of the main things that keeps me from fully embracing it is how often the meetings and the conversations ultimately boil down to and always winds up with me somehow accepting Jesus Christ. It's like an Amway seminar. It's not gonna work for me. I'm 49 and very much an atheist.

Sorry. I went off on a rant there but the ultimate point I was trying to make was that for someone like Prince, who was SO high minded, SO self driven, independent and, yes, at times arrogant and off putting with his religous beliefs, I can easily see a situation develop with him where he actually wound up using his faith as a way of rationalizing the thing that ultimately led to his demise; thinking that God would take care of him, etc.

Herb4 you are my new best friend!

Menes said:

laurarichardson said:

Menes said: -- The confirmation has been all over the news. I am amazed at the number of people who are doubting the medical exeminer and the medical test from P's Doctor visit. If there is a criminal case it will based off of her conclusion.

I dont care what amazes you. Nothing you type amazes me .Where did the ME's office say anything of the sort about a blood test/ hair test? If you cant answer, find another member thread to comment about.

Couldn't research this at work, but here's one article:

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2016/aug/21/prince-death-cause-fentanyl-opioid-counterfeit-pills-drug-overdose

It only quotes anonymous "officials" and does mention the blood tests prior to P's death. It mentions other drugs listed in the full autoposy report (which has not been released) but does not quote the ME (as I said earlier).

You can look up the Minneapolis Star Tribune for their coverage on Prince since they were the first to report this latest development. As I've stated several times already, the ME has not given any comments beyond the death report. The full autopsy has not been released. I think people on the org have surmised the ME did a hair test, but I cannot find that info in any article. The comment in this article states that prior bloodwork shows that P was not a longterm user of fentanyl. The official did not elaborate as to what the context was for that bloodwork, but we know he saw the doc on 4/7 and on 4/20 and that there was bloodwork at least on 4/20. But, the official did not clearly state when, where, and under what circumstance the bloodwork was taken.

Other reports...I'm afraid you're going to need to look them up for yourself...say pretty much the same thing in addition to the official stating that LE is leaning toward P not knowing that he was taking fentanyl. That is consistent with the ME report stating it was an accident (if he knew what he was taking, then how do you know it wasn't intentional? You might suspect he didn't mean to die but you couldn't know for sure, which is not conclusive evidence for anything really, except that this "official" has not contradicted what LE and the ME have stated).

All I have for now. Short answer, the ME has not been directly quoted in any article that I've seen except when they quote her official report that she released in May.

[Edited 8/25/16 17:29pm]

[Edited 8/25/16 17:29pm]

[Edited 8/25/16 17:39pm]

[Edited 8/25/16 17:41pm]

morningsong said:

fortuneandserendipity said:

Hair tests are not reliable at recognising amounts of toxins when the amounts are very small, such as in the case of fentanyl. Toxins can also stay hidden to a degree, often in the liver, colon or body fat. Lesser amounts also retained elsewhere in the body, including the bones. Like with Skeletor.

Despite what the laypeople around here say, the ME took tissue samples and time, so the odds are they ran all sorts of test to determine if it was acute or chronic toxicity, because that's their day job.

You would hope so. the issue is when people casually assume 'well there was no fentanyl or x in his hair, and then based on that 'ruling out any prior esposure to fentanyl'. The idea behind the hair test is to establish toxins long embedded somewhere in body emerging out through the hair and therefore, in their absence, being able to rule out certain toxins. So to iterate what I've said before, based on what I've read, they're not a reliable test. Additionally, the problem with tissue samples is that it wouldn't take long for toxins to be embedded in tissue, as blood is constantly in contact with organs and tissues thereof. As a result it doesn't establish how long ago toxins were ingested be it 3, 7, 30, 60, 90 days.

As I said on here before, the fact these drugs have varying potency makes it a volume issue. You would need for example 1000s of times more codeine than fentanyl to get the same therapeutic effect. But essentially they do the same thing, as they're both opiates. One's prescribed in micrograms, the other in milligrams. Fentanyl is going to be way more difficult to detect. For context 1000mcg = 1mg.

fortuneandserendipity said:

morningsong said:

Despite what the laypeople around here say, the ME took tissue samples and time, so the odds are they ran all sorts of test to determine if it was acute or chronic toxicity, because that's their day job.

You would hope so. the issue is when people casually assume 'well there was no fentanyl or x in his hair, and then based on that 'ruling out any prior esposure to fentanyl'. The idea behind the hair test is to establish toxins long embedded somewhere in body emerging out through the hair and therefore, in their absence, being able to rule out certain toxins. So to iterate what I've said before, based on what I've read, they're not a reliable test. Additionally, the problem with tissue samples is that it wouldn't take long for toxins to be embedded in tissue, as blood is constantly in contact with organs and tissues thereof. As a result it doesn't establish how long ago toxins were ingested be it 3, 7, 30, 60, 90 days.

As I said on here before, the fact these drugs have varying potency makes it a volume issue. You would need for example 1000s of times more codeine than fentanyl to get the same therapeutic effect. But essentially they do the same thing, as they're both opiates. One's prescribed in micrograms, the other in milligrams. Fentanyl is going to be way more difficult to detect. For context 1000mcg = 1mg.

But if the information came from the ME, which I'm not sure at this point honestly, but if it did then you can pretty much assume they did more tests than a hair test, despite what anyone says, so it's pretty much a moot point to keep argueing on whether or not the results are from a hair test. If it came from the ME they did acute vs. chonic toxicity tests and they reported that there is no evidence of long term use, what else is there to debate about?

morningsong said:

fortuneandserendipity said:

Hair tests are not reliable at recognising amounts of toxins when the amounts are very small, such as in the case of fentanyl. Toxins can also stay hidden to a degree, often in the liver, colon or body fat. Lesser amounts also retained elsewhere in the body, including the bones. Like with Skeletor.

Despite what the laypeople around here say, the ME took tissue samples and time, so the odds are they ran all sorts of test to determine if it was acute or chronic toxicity, because that's their day job.

I couldn't find an article that clearly stated this. The articles I pulled up said that tests (yes, plural) taken prior to his death showed no fentanyl in his system. Do we have a source that clearly states the ME did other tissue samples and hair tests? I looked up the ST, AP, LA Times, and the Guardian.

I'm not questioning you, in particular, I'm just trying to keep the articles straight from educated guesses here on the org.

Menes said:

laurarichardson said:

Menes said: -- The confirmation has been all over the news. I am amazed at the number of people who are doubting the medical exeminer and the medical test from P's Doctor visit. If there is a criminal case it will based off of her conclusion.

I dont care what amazes you. Nothing you type amazes me .Where did the ME's office say anything of the sort about a blood test/ hair test? If you cant answer, find another member thread to comment about.

Menes, re: testing claims - here are the main articles that I'm aware of - others appear to be copies/summaries. Now that I preview this I see Teach is posting about them as well.

http://bigstory.ap.org/ar...d-fentanyl
http://www.startribune.co...390816101/
http://www.vanityfair.com...dose-death

I trust you'll comprehend the difference between assertions and data bits and speculation while reading. Main blurbs about testing:

"Tests on Prince prior to his death did not show fentanyl in his system, which means he wasn't a long-time abuser of that drug, but likely took the fatal dose sometime in the 24 hours before he died, the official said. The official did not elaborate on those tests."

"According to the anonymous official connected to the case, Prince had no prescription for any controlled substances in the state of Minnesota in the year before his death and did not test positive for fentanyl when he overdosed on Percocet the week before his death."

teach49 said:

morningsong said:

Despite what the laypeople around here say, the ME took tissue samples and time, so the odds are they ran all sorts of test to determine if it was acute or chronic toxicity, because that's their day job.

I couldn't find an article that clearly stated this. The articles I pulled up said that tests (yes, plural) taken prior to his death showed no fentanyl in his system. Do we have a source that clearly states the ME did other tissue samples and hair tests? I looked up the ST, AP, LA Times, and the Guardian.

I'm not questioning you, in particular, I'm just trying to keep the articles straight from educated guesses here on the org.

Yeah, I did state I'm not sure if the information is coming from the ME, but you can best believe that the ME did several types of test, uncovering as many knowns as possible so even if any article itself states it or not, it is definitely in any report sent to the criminal investigation.

I had assumed that the results were either from whatever tests they gave him at the hospital, since he was there for a few hours, or the tests that Dr. S ran and brought to PP the following morning, note that the word is plural meaning more than one test was done, and nowhere is it listed what those tests were. All I gathered from what I read is that he did not have fentanyl in his system on the plane, which means something else was going on.

morningsong said:

fortuneandserendipity said:

You would hope so. the issue is when people casually assume 'well there was no fentanyl or x in his hair, and then based on that 'ruling out any prior esposure to fentanyl'. The idea behind the hair test is to establish toxins long embedded somewhere in body emerging out through the hair and therefore, in their absence, being able to rule out certain toxins. So to iterate what I've said before, based on what I've read, they're not a reliable test. Additionally, the problem with tissue samples is that it wouldn't take long for toxins to be embedded in tissue, as blood is constantly in contact with organs and tissues thereof. As a result it doesn't establish how long ago toxins were ingested be it 3, 7, 30, 60, 90 days.

As I said on here before, the fact these drugs have varying potency makes it a volume issue. You would need for example 1000s of times more codeine than fentanyl to get the same therapeutic effect. But essentially they do the same thing, as they're both opiates. One's prescribed in micrograms, the other in milligrams. Fentanyl is going to be way more difficult to detect. For context 1000mcg = 1mg.

But if the information came from the ME, which I'm not sure at this point honestly, but if it did then you can pretty much assume they did more tests than a hair test, despite what anyone says, so it's pretty much a moot point to keep argueing on whether or not the results are from a hair test. If it came from the ME they did acute vs. chonic toxicity tests and they reported that there is no evidence of long term use, what else is there to debate about?

You're not getting my point about fentanyl. If they are ruling out long term use of fentanyl they're doing so erroneously, because the amounts prescribed to and consumed by the patient/user are so minutely tiny. You can't base a reliable chronic toxicity test on fentanyl or any other drug for that matter where the amounts are so small.

teach49 said:

morningsong said:

Despite what the laypeople around here say, the ME took tissue samples and time, so the odds are they ran all sorts of test to determine if it was acute or chronic toxicity, because that's their day job.

I couldn't find an article that clearly stated this. The articles I pulled up said that tests (yes, plural) taken prior to his death showed no fentanyl in his system. Do we have a source that clearly states the ME did other tissue samples and hair tests? I looked up the ST, AP, LA Times, and the Guardian.

I'm not questioning you, in particular, I'm just trying to keep the articles straight from educated guesses here on the org.

This might help you

https://www.verywell.com/how-long-does-fentanyl-stay-in-your-system-80257

fortuneandserendipity said:

morningsong said:

But if the information came from the ME, which I'm not sure at this point honestly, but if it did then you can pretty much assume they did more tests than a hair test, despite what anyone says, so it's pretty much a moot point to keep argueing on whether or not the results are from a hair test. If it came from the ME they did acute vs. chonic toxicity tests and they reported that there is no evidence of long term use, what else is there to debate about?

You're not getting my point about fentanyl. If they are ruling out long term use of fentanyl they're doing so erroneously, because the amounts prescribed to and consumed by the patient/user are so minutely tiny. You can't base a reliable chronic toxicity test on fentanyl or any other drug for that matter where the amounts are so small.

Is it your job to test for fentanyl? Keeping in mind I don't know you from a hole in the wall, what are your credential, since you're trying to convience us that the ME or other medical personnel wouldn't know what they were doing when they were running their tests?

[Edited 8/25/16 18:01pm]

zenarose said:

teach49 said:

I couldn't find an article that clearly stated this. The articles I pulled up said that tests (yes, plural) taken prior to his death showed no fentanyl in his system. Do we have a source that clearly states the ME did other tissue samples and hair tests? I looked up the ST, AP, LA Times, and the Guardian.

I'm not questioning you, in particular, I'm just trying to keep the articles straight from educated guesses here on the org.

This might help you

https://www.verywell.com/how-long-does-fentanyl-stay-in-your-system-80257

.

[Edited 8/25/16 18:03pm]

morningsong said:

teach49 said:

I couldn't find an article that clearly stated this. The articles I pulled up said that tests (yes, plural) taken prior to his death showed no fentanyl in his system. Do we have a source that clearly states the ME did other tissue samples and hair tests? I looked up the ST, AP, LA Times, and the Guardian.

I'm not questioning you, in particular, I'm just trying to keep the articles straight from educated guesses here on the org.

Yeah, I did state I'm not sure if the information is coming from the ME, but you can best believe that the ME did several types of test, uncovering as many knowns as possible so even if any article itself states it or not, it is definitely in any report sent to the criminal investigation.

I had assumed that the results were either from whatever tests they gave him at the hospital, since he was there for a few hours, or the tests that Dr. S ran and brought to PP the following morning, note that the word is plural meaning more than one test was done, and nowhere is it listed what those tests were. All I gathered from what I read is that he did not have fentanyl in his system on the plane, which means something else was going on.

Got it. Thanks for the clarification. Just trying to keep it all straight.

I agree that it's likely that they tested for all kinds of things. One article did state clearly that he was tested for fentanyl in Moline and that it was negative, which does mean he did not OD on fentanyl that night. We don't know what was really going on there.

[Edited 8/25/16 18:07pm]

zenarose said:

teach49 said:

I couldn't find an article that clearly stated this. The articles I pulled up said that tests (yes, plural) taken prior to his death showed no fentanyl in his system. Do we have a source that clearly states the ME did other tissue samples and hair tests? I looked up the ST, AP, LA Times, and the Guardian.

I'm not questioning you, in particular, I'm just trying to keep the articles straight from educated guesses here on the org.

This might help you

https://www.verywell.com/how-long-does-fentanyl-stay-in-your-system-80257

Thanks. I was asking if the latest news articles stated clearly what tests the ME did (i.e., hair test, etc.)

SpinsterSister said:

herb4 said:

I could very easily see this being the case. Prince was an "I'll do it myself" type of person and always has been. I can certainly picture a scenario where he said something like "I'ts all in God's hands. I'll pray. What does that hospital and those doctors know about The Truth? Have they accepted Christ?"

Religion, in a lot of ways, is its own form of addiction and a drug unto itself. People seek it out and embrace it for the much the same reasons as they drink, smoke weed, use hard drugs, take anti depressants and self medicate. In many cases the worst amongst the most hardcore believers are worse than almost any drug addict I've encountered.

They never shut the fuck about it and have convinced themselves they've found The Solution.

At least with dope fiends, most of them aren't constantly up in your face and advocating you take this bad ass new drug they use that will solve all of your problems, insisting you try it. They might offer it to you and then move on when you say "no thanks" but I'll be damned if every born again hardcore Jesus finder and True Believer I know absolutely never ever shuts the fuck up about it, even after I've repeatedly told them it doesn't work for me and have politely asked them to knock it off. It's condescending, annoying and more than a little bit arrogant.

I've been to a few AA meetings in the past few years becausea I have an alcohol problem and one of the main things that keeps me from fully embracing it is how often the meetings and the conversations ultimately boil down to and always winds up with me somehow accepting Jesus Christ. It's like an Amway seminar. It's not gonna work for me. I'm 49 and very much an atheist.

Sorry. I went off on a rant there but the ultimate point I was trying to make was that for someone like Prince, who was SO high minded, SO self driven, independent and, yes, at times arrogant and off putting with his religous beliefs, I can easily see a situation develop with him where he actually wound up using his faith as a way of rationalizing the thing that ultimately led to his demise; thinking that God would take care of him, etc.

Herb4 you are my new best friend!

yes to this and also who's to say that those around him didn't try to help?? or even being alone on the night he died was also his choice... we just dont know...

Menes said:

laurarichardson said:

Menes said: -- The confirmation has been all over the news. I am amazed at the number of people who are doubting the medical exeminer and the medical test from P's Doctor visit. If there is a criminal case it will based off of her conclusion.

I dont care what amazes you. Nothing you type amazes me .Where did the ME's office say anything of the sort about a blood test/ hair test? If you cant answer, find another member thread to comment about.

The only thing amazing about laurarichardson is how often she equates assumptions with facts.