herb4 said:

morningsong said:

Nobody has an opinion about the possibility that the legitiate meds were actually discontinued about a year or 2 ago.

It doesn't matter. The pills were counterfeit anyway. The LEGAL version was discontinued.

None of it does.

But for me, if that is true, then it gives a clearer picture of why he wouldn't have had a prescription for a year, and why he would have been seeking it out elsewhere.

leadline said:

morningsong said:

laurarichardson said:

morningsong said:

None of it does.

But for me, if that is true, then it gives a clearer picture of why he wouldn't have had a prescription for a year, and why he would have been seeking it out elsewhere.

-- The pills were discontinued and perhaps he was using them with an Rx years before. I still think he was under some kind of pain management at some point and got off or was upset because these were discontinued.

I'm sure he was under pain management. And to me it seems obvious it wasn't chasing a high it was about a specific product that must have worked best for him, trying to find it by any means.

As has been posted on this site before, his pain could have been physical AND emotional. I agree that I don't think he was taking anything to get high - I think it was to manage his life. None of us knows the stresses he was under. And he was under it all alone.

nelcp777 said:

herb4 said:

It doesn't matter. The pills were counterfeit anyway. The LEGAL version was discontinued.

I would imagine the legal pills were not laced with multiple drugs like the counterfit. The U-44700 (may be wrong number) is supposed to be a new drug. Does anyone know how long this has been on the market? The hydrocodone pills that had fentanyl also had lidacaine, which, I am inclined to believe were illegal.

You would imagine correctly. The counterfeit stuff is made buying pill presses designed to make them look legit to the naked eye and the savvy user. There's no way in hell to determine what's in them and the pill pressers don't give a shit if that brand has been discontinued. There's also really now way no determine how long they've been on the market either since they don't turn up until someone OD's or gets busted.

tmo1965 said:

SheLovesMeNot said:

Astasheiks said: Of course it is...even more now that Fentanyl was discovered. Prince did not intentionally ingest that drug...days prior to his death he was at emergency room and no Fentanyl was involved then days later he dies of Fentanyl overdose?!

The part that's confusing for me is if he did not OD on Fentanyl on the plane, what did he OD on or was it an OD at all? I know that some people believe that he had a seizure on the plane, which is totally possible, but then he dies from Fentanyl a few days later!? Mind boggling.

It could have been fent both times from what I can ascertain. The drug tests only said no LONG TERM USE OF FENTANYL. A week or two wouldn't constitute long term use.

laurarichardson said:

morningsong said:

None of it does.

But for me, if that is true, then it gives a clearer picture of why he wouldn't have had a prescription for a year, and why he would have been seeking it out elsewhere.

-- The pills were discontinued and perhaps he was using them with an Rx years before. I still think he was under some kind of pain management at some point and got off or was upset because these were discontinued.

Doubtful. They still make basically the same thing only with less acetowhateveritis that fucks up your liver. They used to be called Lortab now it's Norco.

herb4 said:

cloveringold85 said:

Just my opinion here and it is not meant to offend anyone. Bottom line, Prince would not put this poison in his body! Someone else did. Those pills were planted around his room to make him look like a druggie. How convenient too that the security system was turned-off that night before he was found in the elevator. That was some powerful drugs in his system -- Prince was not stupid enough to take them! He was being drugged. Now, come on -- do you think Prince would be so careless to put bottles labeled "Aleve" around his estate that had "Fentanyl" and the synthetic opioids that could kill an elephant!! That is a liability! Imagine someone finding a bottle labeled "Aleve", so they take one because they have a headache, then they are dead!! Prince was meticulous about PP and kept things as neat as a pin!! Why would he just leave pills laying around? And, think about this; if Prince had these drugs on him on the airplane, wouldn't he be in jail for carrying illegal drugs on him? Furthermore, (now I don't know if this is true), but the news is saying that Prince did not even have a prescription for "Fentanyl", so he was obtaining them "illegally", if that is the case, which I hope not!! This story keeps going from bad to worse!! I suspect foul play. I pray to God that he will work this out. It's in God's hands!! Keep Praying for our beloved Prince. He did not deserve this!! Justice for Prince Roger Nelson!!

Wrong. I don't even know where to start with this. Again, we have another member who doesn't understand drugs, the nature of addiction or even something as simple as travelling with pills on a private jet. I've taken numerous medications with me on several arilines and never had a problem.

You sound like a crazy person.

Excuse me, but why are you taking that tone with me. First, you don't know me or anything about me and what I know. You are saying I am "wrong"? And you are right, is that it?

So, you know for a FACT that Prince was addicted to pain meds and he just had pills strewn around his estate and walking around with deadly pills in his pocket?

Please, don't tell me what I know and DON'T know.

I know people travel with medications all the time.....PRESCRIBED medications.......not ILLEGAL ones!!

herb4 said:

Christ on a cracker. Fuck this insane bullshit. I'm taking a break.

You frantic phone posters who write shit I can't even read or parse, the cryptic drive by types, the ones claiming to know inside shit, the "just say 'no" and "All drugs are bad" people, the ones so invested in thier hero that to admit he had a drug problem is tentamount to blasphemy, and the rest who refuse to believe the facts that almost entirely and logically explain about 95% of what really happened have worn me right the fuck out.

Even if they catch the person who sold him the hot pills, half of you maniacs won't believe it anyway and will likely claim that whoever they wind up prosecuting is just a fall guy used to cover up for law enforcement, doctors and the "real murderer".

Too many of you have lost your motherfucking minds over this. I'm sad he's gone too but i mean god damn. I used to think that arguing over whether MPLSound was good or not was tiring but, god damn, these last two threads have been absolutely off the chain with nonsensical bullshit.

Good, go away! You are an annoying TROLL

herb4 said:

laurarichardson said:

morningsong said: -- The pills were discontinued and perhaps he was using them with an Rx years before. I still think he was under some kind of pain management at some point and got off or was upset because these were discontinued.

Doubtful. They still make basically the same thing only with less acetowhateveritis that fucks up your liver. They used to be called Lortab now it's Norco.

Basically the same isn't the same. You've never had anything that worked just right as is until "they" change it to something else that just doesn't cut it?

wisdom7 said:

jayseajay said:

It's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. Have these people ever looked at his tour schedule?? Ppl with stage fright do not design their lives to be on stage 150 nights a year, they do not play 2 and sometimes 3 gigs in a night, and they don't look like they are in their absolute favourite place on earth while they're doing it. It's such utter bollocks.

He loved music, his art. That's why he did the shows. Read articles about the beginning of his career. One of his managers, I can't recall the name, said Prince was so shy that the lights had to be turned out if anyone walked in while he was recording so they couldn't look at him. Also, he said that Prince sang so quietly that he could barely be heard. And then look at the American Bandstand interview (should still be on YouTube) that he did in 1979...he could barely talk when Dick Clark asked him questions...I could feel his pain. (I read too that Dez Dickerson said that was because Prince planned it that way...not to talk to Dick Clark,but I don't think so.) Prince was highly intelligent. He knew he had the phobia and wanted to be the best at his career and knew that if he was going to do that he'd have to deal with the phobia. His friend Pepe Willie asked him "what happened?" regarding the Dick Clark interview and Prince said he froze and said it would never happen again. I wonder if this is when he knew he'd have to get some "help" because he'd need to know how to deal with interviews.

I don't believe Prince had a phobia. I've seen his interview with Dick Clark on AB, and I think Prince was just playing with him. Prince was known to be that way -- mess with people's minds and keep them guessing. I've heard and seen Prince in interviews before then and he seemed totally fine and calm and answered questions. He was very bright at a young age.

1Sasha said:

herb4 said:

herb4 said:

nelcp777 said:

I would imagine the legal pills were not laced with multiple drugs like the counterfit. The U-44700 (may be wrong number) is supposed to be a new drug. Does anyone know how long this has been on the market? The hydrocodone pills that had fentanyl also had lidacaine, which, I am inclined to believe were illegal.

You would imagine correctly. The counterfeit stuff is made buying pill presses designed to make them look legit to the naked eye and the savvy user. There's no way in hell to determine what's in them and the pill pressers don't give a shit if that brand has been discontinued. There's also really now way no determine how long they've been on the market either since they don't turn up until someone OD's or gets busted.

So with that, then the pill(s) Prince OD'ed on could not have been an error filled by the pharmacy with bad pills. My reasoning for that is 1.) the pills were laced/mixed with multiple drugs and 2.) the maker of Watson has been not producing the pills since 2013.

I agree with law enforcement and the ME's conclusions. For me, the unknown is the what caused the OD on the plane. It is implied that the same pills may have played a factor.

Prince could have gotten the Watson/Hydro from the "streets" (thru his aides/web/not him directly), saw they had the stamp of Watson on them, thought they were legit, when in fact, they were laced and not what he was use to taking. He mixed his pills up in various bottles, and could not tell the difference of legit vs laced.

nelcp777 said:

herb4 said:

You would imagine correctly. The counterfeit stuff is made buying pill presses designed to make them look legit to the naked eye and the savvy user. There's no way in hell to determine what's in them and the pill pressers don't give a shit if that brand has been discontinued. There's also really now way no determine how long they've been on the market either since they don't turn up until someone OD's or gets busted.

So with that, then the pill(s) Prince OD'ed on could not have been an error filled by the pharmacy with bad pills. My reasoning for that is 1.) the pills were laced/mixed with multiple drugs and 2.) the maker of Watson has been not producing the pills since 2013.

I agree with law enforcement and the ME's conclusions. For me, the unknown is the what caused the OD on the plane. It is implied that the same pills may have played a factor.

Prince could have gotten the Watson/Hydro from the "streets" (thru his aides/web/not him directly), saw they had the stamp of Watson on them, thought they were legit, when in fact, they were laced and not what he was use to taking. He mixed his pills up in various bottles, and could not tell the difference of legit vs laced.

still, i scratch my head as to why he didn't just take the whole batch and flush them. After a scare like that, that's what I would have done. however, addicts don't think straight. Bruce Lee was told he had an allergic reaction to cannabis and he could die if he did it again, a few weeks later he does the same thing. Probably in his mind "oh, it wasn't the pot, it was such and such" next thing you know he's dead. Or maybe people just crave the high more than they do life itself. I don't get it.

laurarichardson said:

herb4 said:

Doubtful. They still make basically the same thing only with less acetowhateveritis that fucks up your liver. They used to be called Lortab now it's Norco.

-- If had been cut off from an Rx how would he known about the replacement. I think he wanted these hoxy pills because had taken them in the past.

He could have been getting the legit pill, in a not so legit way, until the supply started running out and whoever this unknown person is started supplying him the counterfeit ones from god who knows where. It's possible.

Dr. Funkenberry says on his latest podcast that Julia Ramadan may have been 21 when she started working for Prince but she had a good head on her shoulders & "this" wouldn't be happening when she was around.

He did that same old bullshit hinting thing again this time it was very interesting (or would've been if he'd told the whole damn story). He said how when he arrived at Paisley for that final party "the two people who were closest to him that night" were surprised to see him which made him "start wigging out" & he realised maybe it was more than the flu but he didn't know what to do. The thing that struck him is Prince flew him out to Paisley without telling "them" which is "highly unusual". Also odd was how "they" reacted to him being there (no details). Oh & he knew something was up because Prince was wearing a leather jacket in 85 degree weather. Prince wanted him to leave on Sunday & didn't want to talk. I think this was Prince, it's hard to listen!

Why did Prince want him there without people knowing only to then not want to talk? Think Funky feeling totally guilty

Just tell us who "they" are! What is with the hints & shit ~ first Londell now Funky (again). Oh & when he spoke about what would have to be proved in order for someone to be arrested (it was in some article, you know having to prove the supplier knew what was in the pills blah blah) he made a very pointed comment like-- that will never happen, not if your lawyered up!

LuxLove said:

Dr. Funkenberry says on his latest podcast that Julia Ramadan may have been 21 when she started working for Prince but she had a good head on her shoulders & "this" wouldn't be happening when she was around.

He did that same old bullshit hinting thing again this time it was very interesting (or would've been if he'd told the whole damn story). He said how when he arrived at Paisley for that final party "the two people who were closest to him that night" were surprised to see him which made him "start wigging out" & he realised maybe it was more than the flu but he didn't know what to do. The thing that struck him is Prince flew him out to Paisley without telling "them" which is "highly unusual". Also odd was how "they" reacted to him being there (no details). Oh & he knew something was up because Prince was wearing a leather jacket in 85 degree weather. Prince wanted him to leave on Sunday & didn't want to talk. I think this was Prince, it's hard to listen!

Why did Prince want him there without people knowing only to then not want to talk? Think Funky feeling totally guilty

Just tell us who "they" are! What is with the hints & shit ~ first Londell now Funky (again). Oh & when he spoke about what would have to be proved in order for someone to be arrested (it was in some article, you know having to prove the supplier knew what was in the pills blah blah) he made a very pointed comment like-- that will never happen, not if your lawyered up!

The party photo of Prince holding up the guitar, could be the lighting and pic quality, but Prince looked rough. I know it does not show his face, but the posture. Again, could be the timing and lighting of the photo but that has always been in my mind.

Maybe Dr. Funk is just trying to get some of the shine and noteriety? It seems like if Prince flew him out, Prince's people would handle the arrangements, not Prince himself. I could be wrong.

PeteSilas said:

still, i scratch my head as to why he didn't just take the whole batch and flush them. After a scare like that, that's what I would have done. however, addicts don't think straight. Bruce Lee was told he had an allergic reaction to cannabis and he could die if he did it again, a few weeks later he does the same thing. Probably in his mind "oh, it wasn't the pot, it was such and such" next thing you know he's dead. Or maybe people just crave the high more than they do life itself. I don't get it.

Hey, I am with you. I am trying to make sense of this too. I mean, Aleve and it's generic counterparts are blue colored. The Watson pills are white (at least in the article online). Imagine if someone took a pill from the aspirin bottle, thinking it was aspirin and got a laced pill. Or Vitamin C?

Man, that could have been disasterous.

Speculating on the remark of no prescription for 12 months for a controlled substance. Perhaps Prince's doctor felt there was not a need for meds, Prince has been obtaining meds another way? What is considered a controlled substance?

PeteSilas said:

nelcp777 said:

So with that, then the pill(s) Prince OD'ed on could not have been an error filled by the pharmacy with bad pills. My reasoning for that is 1.) the pills were laced/mixed with multiple drugs and 2.) the maker of Watson has been not producing the pills since 2013.

I agree with law enforcement and the ME's conclusions. For me, the unknown is the what caused the OD on the plane. It is implied that the same pills may have played a factor.

Prince could have gotten the Watson/Hydro from the "streets" (thru his aides/web/not him directly), saw they had the stamp of Watson on them, thought they were legit, when in fact, they were laced and not what he was use to taking. He mixed his pills up in various bottles, and could not tell the difference of legit vs laced.

still, i scratch my head as to why he didn't just take the whole batch and flush them. After a scare like that, that's what I would have done. however, addicts don't think straight. Bruce Lee was told he had an allergic reaction to cannabis and he could die if he did it again, a few weeks later he does the same thing. Probably in his mind "oh, it wasn't the pot, it was such and such" next thing you know he's dead. Or maybe people just crave the high more than they do life itself. I don't get it.

maybe he asked the person that got him the drugs to get rid of them, and replace them with a new batch, but they were replaced with laced pills again. it would make sense to ask the person that supplied the bad pills to get rid of them and then also replace them.

nelcp777 said:

cloveringold85 said:

herb4 said:

Wrong. I don't even know where to start with this. Again, we have another member who doesn't understand drugs, the nature of addiction or even something as simple as travelling with pills on a private jet. I've taken numerous medications with me on several arilines and never had a problem.

You sound like a crazy person.

Excuse me, but why are you taking that tone with me. First, you don't know me or anything about me and what I know. You are saying I am "wrong"? And you are right, is that it?

So, you know for a FACT that Prince was addicted to pain meds and he just had pills strewn around his estate and walking around with deadly pills in his pocket?

Please, don't tell me what I know and DON'T know.

I know people travel with medications all the time.....PRESCRIBED medications.......not ILLEGAL ones!!

Sorry about the tone. Youre right and I apologize. I get frustrated listening to people who obviously haven't the first clue about drugs and all the posters here show suspect "foul play". It's ridiculous.

By "wrong" I was referring to "Prince would never put poison in his body" and assumed you were referring to drugs in general. He was taking drugs (pain meds) for sure. If you meant "he would never knowingly have poisoned himself with fentanyl", I agree. I think he meant to pop a pain pill and got a counterfeit one but dude very clearly had a problem, likely with hydrocodone.

I also think you're wrong that if he were carrying prescriptions that weren't his or illicit counterfeit pills that he would automatically be arrested and put in jail. In fact, I know you're wrong because A: I've done it and never went to jail and B: airport screening doesn't give shit one about people carrying pills. I do it all the time and have them right there in my carry on bag. I've had xanax right there in a bottle that wasn't mine and never had a single issue. They don't care. And no NSA screener is going to run a lab test on what looks like a regular old Lortab. I carried mountains of my grandmother's meds through screening when I traveled with her and no one batted an eye.

It's also quite common for people to put their pills (especially illicit ones) in regular vitamin and aspirin bottles, especially if they're hiding their use or have something they shouldn't. Addicts are cleve that way.

I feel pretty confident stating that Prince had and addiction issue with pain medicine in general, yes. I'd go as far as to state that it's a pretty undeniable fact. And, yes, I absolutely think you're wrong about someone switching off the security system and intentionally poisining him or that there was any "foul play" whatsoever.

I apologize again for my tone

cloveringold85 said:

herb4 said:

stuff

Good, go away! You are an annoying TROLL

Hey now. I've been here a long time and have a stellar track record. I'm not trolling anyone.

Or is this the part where where anyone who doesn't suspect foul play or subscribe to conspiracy theories is suddenly just out to stir up shit for the mere sake of it? I could just as easily say that you're an insane person who doesn't understand the first thing about drugs, the NSA, or addiciton and that thinks that Prince was murdered and that the whole thing is a scam and a coverrup.

Oh, wait. I did say that.

Does that make you a troll or just a misguided person that I disagree very strongly with? Prince's death isn't half as complex as some of you are making it out to be. 95% of the pieces are all right there.

laurarichardson said:

herb4 said:

Doubtful. They still make basically the same thing only with less acetowhateveritis that fucks up your liver. They used to be called Lortab now it's Norco.

-- If had been cut off from an Rx how would he known about the replacement. I think he wanted these hoxy pills because had taken them in the past.

Because they don't even prescribe them anymore. Or make them. If he had a prescription for Lortab it would have been from 2 or 3 years ago and no good anyway. It's not a situation where he had a recently written scrip for Lortab (because that would have been impossible). He wouldn't have had to have known about "the replacement" (Norco instead of Lortab) because Lortab was impossible to prescribe after 2014. the Dr. would have simply prescribe Norco like they did with me.

morningsong said:

herb4 said:

Doubtful. They still make basically the same thing only with less acetowhateveritis that fucks up your liver. They used to be called Lortab now it's Norco.

Basically the same isn't the same. You've never had anything that worked just right as is until "they" change it to something else that just doesn't cut it?

It's the same. Same amount of Hydrocodone just less of the acetaminophen which, oddly enough, is more dangerous than hydrocodone. All a person would have to do to make up for the difference is take a tylenol with the new pill.

nelcp777 said:

herb4 said:

You would imagine correctly. The counterfeit stuff is made buying pill presses designed to make them look legit to the naked eye and the savvy user. There's no way in hell to determine what's in them and the pill pressers don't give a shit if that brand has been discontinued. There's also really now way no determine how long they've been on the market either since they don't turn up until someone OD's or gets busted.

So with that, then the pill(s) Prince OD'ed on could not have been an error filled by the pharmacy with bad pills.

Correct. They were black market and made from fentanyl.

EDIT: Shit. sorry for the multiple posts like that. Catching up.

[Edited 8/24/16 13:58pm]

herb4 said:

tmo1965 said:

The part that's confusing for me is if he did not OD on Fentanyl on the plane, what did he OD on or was it an OD at all? I know that some people believe that he had a seizure on the plane, which is totally possible, but then he dies from Fentanyl a few days later!? Mind boggling.

It could have been fent both times from what I can ascertain. The drug tests only said no LONG TERM USE OF FENTANYL. A week or two wouldn't constitute long term use.

The Strib article says that prior tests did not show any fentanyl. I know that the hospital would have run tests. He had also been to the doctor on 4/7 and 4/20, so it would be logical to assume that 1 or more of those tests did not show fentanyl. The article sort of implies whatever happened on the plane and what caused his death are not really related and that's kind of hard to believe.

Astasheiks said:

zenarose said:

laurarichardson said:

wisdom7 said: -- Having them was crime as well.

I'd like to offer an explanation as to the alleged "bag of pills" that P had on the flight back from Atlanta. If what has been reported is true, meds were in aspirin bottles... Vit. C bottles, ect. We don't know how many bottles there were, if only a few, at first glance, no one would really give it much attention. Mega star... clean living.... out of character...

That might be why Police were not involved, no red flag about OTC meds. Also, we don't know what P disclosed to the ER DR or the EMT's and they aren't talking due to HIPPA. For all we know, he could have told them he was recovering from the flu and was just very weak. We also do not know for a fact that he was given Narcan.

Neither are the 2 associates that were on that flight, allbeit that JH did give a statement.....is it logical, is it believable? The incident with the flight happened on the 15th. Why WHY if JH was so horrified, and KJ being present during the serious incident did it take 5 days to get help?? And that help was a call to a former Attorney @ 6am on the 20th?

I believe that when the case is solved the responsible party(s) will be a shock to all. Sometimes you have to start with the least likely scenario and work your way to the most likely to get to the truth. You would be amazed at what you will discover when you open your mind.

"A honest enemy is better than a friend who lies"

Sorry I picked up the wrong reply. I was responding to Reply#499

[Edited 8/24/16 8:53am]

Maybe they called an attorney first because they discovered that he was using illicit rather than legitimate meds? They wanted legal advice and a suitable contact for P's condition (Dr K). Which suggests that, maybe - just maybe - P was getting hold of them himself (perhaps via the internet)?

morningsong said:

laurarichardson said:

morningsong said: -- The pills were discontinued and perhaps he was using them with an Rx years before. I still think he was under some kind of pain management at some point and got off or was upset because these were discontinued.

I'm sure he was under pain management. And to me it seems obvious it wasn't chasing a high it was about a specific product that must have worked best for him, trying to find it by any means.

That is a v. good point (yay, there are some in this thread .