laytonian said:

rogifan said:

"Sources" I stopped reading after that. I have no time for unnamed sources not on the record.

This was from the Minneapolis Star Tribune, which adheres to journalistic rules. That means multiple, long-time trusted sources are used to confirm information (unlike one-source tabloids like the NE). There is no reason to doubt that report.

But I understand why you choose to. We're all hurting.

I don't know about that, just last week "reputable" sources were saying michael had kiddie porn, I had to dig a little deeper to see that they all got their info from tabloid sources. I just thought "well, journalism just isn't what it used to be". Was a time when some of those publications wouldn't have thought to report on shit that a tmz or a radar was coming up with.

PeteSilas said:

laytonian said:

This was from the Minneapolis Star Tribune, which adheres to journalistic rules. That means multiple, long-time trusted sources are used to confirm information (unlike one-source tabloids like the NE). There is no reason to doubt that report.

But I understand why you choose to. We're all hurting.

I don't know about that, just last week "reputable" sources were saying michael had kiddie porn, I had to dig a little deeper to see that they all got their info from tabloid sources. I just thought "well, journalism just isn't what it used to be". Was a time when some of those publications wouldn't have thought to report on shit that a tmz or a radar was coming up with.

.

The reputable sources were careful to include refutations from the Santa Barbara Sheriff's Department about which pornographic images were from the case files. (See also: LA Times.)
If you see evidence numbers on the photos, they are from the SBSD.
That's how you tell the difference.

laytonian said:

laytonian said:

rogifan said:

laytonian said:

This was from the Minneapolis Star Tribune, which adheres to journalistic rules. That means multiple, long-time trusted sources are used to confirm information (unlike one-source tabloids like the NE). There is no reason to doubt that report.

But I understand why you choose to. We're all hurting.

I live in Minnesota. Chanhassen in fact. I know the Star Tribune very well. No I don't put them on par with TMZ or other tabloids but that doesn't mean everything they report is gospel truth. Again I have no time for anything anonymously sourced.

I can't tell you how jealous I am of this.

laytonian said:

Yes, I do have a source. It's been discussed here. Put "agitated" in the search box (upper right corner).
I also Googled for you. Here's the Star Tribune story that talks about it:
http://www.startribune.com/prince-likely-was-dead-for-hours-as-picture-of-his-last-days-takes-shape/380338131/

QUOTE: "Sources with knowledge of the investigation have told the Star Tribune that despite putting on a calm face after his emergency treatment for an opioid overdose in Moline, Ill., on April 15, Prince grew increasingly agitated in the following days. That prompted one member of his staff to place a call to New York at 6 a.m. on April 20 — the day before the musician’s body was found — seeking advice from someone who had recently worked with the musician, a source said."
(...)

- It makes sense to me. According to Judith, Prince realized how close he was to death and, since he didnt seem to want to die, it would be natural that he was agitated. Too bad it was too late to get help, that´s the part that makes me more sad.

laytonian said:

wavesofbliss said:

it's despicable behavoir,no doubt. it's also the kind of behavoir you can expect when you don't treat your employees well and don't pay them. i always thought the whole thing about criminal cahrges for pulling the baby's ventillator was obscene. people make those excruciating decisions everyday, how is it criminal? the whole thing is so sad.

The nannies were angry that they got "fired". Why were they needed after the child died?

This was an obvious ploy to get money out of Prince and Mayte, above what was owed. When it didn't work, they went to the police and lied. They claimed that the baby died at home. In truth, the child never left the hospital.

I don't think the nannies claimed that. They claimed that Prince was at home and left them at the hospital to stay with the baby when life support was removed, and then had them take the baby to the cremation place and then bring the ashes home. I do hope they were lying, otherwise, well...

GustavoRibas said:

laytonian said:

Yes, I do have a source. It's been discussed here. Put "agitated" in the search box (upper right corner).
I also Googled for you. Here's the Star Tribune story that talks about it:
http://www.startribune.com/prince-likely-was-dead-for-hours-as-picture-of-his-last-days-takes-shape/380338131/

QUOTE: "Sources with knowledge of the investigation have told the Star Tribune that despite putting on a calm face after his emergency treatment for an opioid overdose in Moline, Ill., on April 15, Prince grew increasingly agitated in the following days. That prompted one member of his staff to place a call to New York at 6 a.m. on April 20 — the day before the musician’s body was found — seeking advice from someone who had recently worked with the musician, a source said."
(...)

- It makes sense to me. According to Judith, Prince realized how close he was to death and, since he didnt seem to want to die, it would be natural that he was agitated. Too bad it was too late to get help, that´s the part that makes me more sad.

He was agitated because agitation is one of the biggest symptoms of withdrawal from opiates. Extreme agitation, hence he was pacing in the parking lot of Walgreens. So he went home and gave in and took the fentanyl and took too much. It's not hard to undertand how it works, it's just hard to understand why it happened

CROWNS1 said:

GustavoRibas said:

- It makes sense to me. According to Judith, Prince realized how close he was to death and, since he didnt seem to want to die, it would be natural that he was agitated. Too bad it was too late to get help, that´s the part that makes me more sad.

He was agitated because agitation is one of the biggest symptoms of withdrawal from opiates. Extreme agitation, hence he was pacing in the parking lot of Walgreens. So he went home and gave in and took the fentanyl and took too much. It's not hard to undertand how it works, it's just hard to understand why it happened

Sad, but true. He only needed to make it through the next frew hours.

laytonian said:

rogifan said:

morningsong said:

ACharmed1 said:

I'm glad someone else is thinking the same thing. I never been angry about his passing until after reading this but, mainly for the reason that this is painting a bigger picture of how much he was suffering in silence and I can't help but be pissed and think that what if SOMEONE didn't get into the cracks of his psyche at a pivitol time in his life and brainwash him to the point he let his health decline.

Personally I've never bought into the idea that he was so bullheaded that NOONE could get through, I'm sure someone could have given some effort, especially with him that close to the edge. I'm feeling he was more pliable this way though. I really need to shut and feel the bliss. Zootopia, anyone?

I agree completely so maybe I need to shut up, too.

laurarichardson said:

rogifan said:

I live in Minnesota. Chanhassen in fact. I know the Star Tribune very well. No I don't put them on par with TMZ or other tabloids but that doesn't mean everything they report is gospel truth. Again I have no time for anything anonymously sourced.

-// Thank you!! Leroy the janitor could be giving out info. Wait for the police to finish their investigation.

AA1slot said:

In reading the Twitter messages of those in P's inner circle and protecting his privacy...that's why there are interventions and two, it is a way to keep one's conscience clear when doing nothing. He had a right to his privacy and to do whatever he wanted. I agree that we as the public really have no right to expect more information. However, the lack of action in the guise of privacy appears as an attempt to protect their own butts. I know there is nothing to say they didnt try to do anything, however there is nothing to suggest that they did either.

My thoughts, too. I guess we will never know what his true inner circle did or didn't try to do but I kind of wish someone had been like Johnny Manziel's dad and had the courage to call him out publicly. Maybe it would have worked and maybe not, but at least the world & Prince would have known for sure that somebody cared and somebody tried.

bluenotes said:

musicfan77 said:

I think Kirk and the bodyguard are responsible, moreso than the doctor. Kirk has an attorney.

And how did they know when the plane landed to give him Narcan? Someone on that plane knew he took something.

I do believe Prince was in so much pain it was getting harder for him to perform.

I also thing the agitation was coming from withdrawl and the Fentenyl did him in.

And who called on that fateful Wednesday night? Who observed something was wrong.

They never should have left him alone knowing the state he was in.

How do we know the person that called witnessed Prince's death and then called for HELP?

Exactly!!!

Astasheiks said:

RachB65 said:

Astasheiks said:

Exactly!!!

This has been pointed out a dozen times already in this and other threads...Narcan is often used if someone is unresponsive, not only for opiate OD, if there are no obvious causes, because it cant hurt someone if they have no opiates in their system. It will just revive them...

This has been said a million times but people on this board live by TMZ. Since we do not have the medical records from the Moline hospital we do not know if he Opiates were in his system. I keep thinking if he did they would have put him in a 72 hour hold.

In addtion, Dr. Drew has said that what Judith Hill described did not sound like an overdose but a seziure. Prince had fentnyl in his system it does not mean that he did not have other medical problems.

RachB65 said:

Astasheiks said:

Exactly!!!

This has been pointed out a dozen times already in this and other threads...Narcan is often used if someone is unresponsive, not only for opiate OD, if there are no obvious causes, because it cant hurt someone if they have no opiates in their system. It will just revive them...

OK, learn something everyday....

As far as I know, seizures do not generally cause people to become suddenly, motionlessly, unconscious and unresponsive for an extended period of time. All those things together don't fit any seizure criteria that I've heard of.

Dr. Drew said it would have been a "partial complex seizure" - however it would have to have been an unusual form of such, from what I'm understanding:

http://www.epilepsy.com/l...l-seizures

http://www.efmny.org/epil...-symptoms/

Also, I would be quite surprised that Ms. Hill would not speak out about her NYT piece if he'd had a seizure, since the NYT so obviously and repeatedly characterized the incident as an overdose. Their direct quotes and paraphrases of Ms. Hill do not read as aligned with a seizure incident either ("Ms. Hill felt that Prince had suffered a close call, one that wouldn’t be repeated.")

LuxLove said:

TurnItUp said:

If you got an issue with it get off the GD org! There are people who have said they don't care how he died. I care how he died! I want to know what went wrong even it it doesn't bring him back!

Great advice since I'm not allowed an opinion without being attacked.

This is late, but I'm sorry I attacked you. I simply didn't see anything wrong with anyone from his camp speaking out as long as it wasn't damaging. This has been a tough two months and his deat dying on the elevator and whole situation was bizarre. I just wanted some details to understand this better and I'm glad Judith spoke up. Just because Damaris and Kirk and whoever else hasn't talked doesn't make them better friends.

Tresha68 said:

Fiona2006 said:

Tresha68 said:

I listened to it. I'm torn. I'm 47, so this is not coming from a "jealous" fan perspective. Part of me feels like what I took from this podcast, is that she is scared. Scared of where her career is headed now without the piggybacking of Prince. She gave up a contract etc. With Sony. I think she fell into the "cushy" job again so to speak. She sang and he used his pull to make a name for her. Perhaps as a favor to Larry Graham. Her parents played with Sly and the Family Stone. Perhaps he saw parts of himself in her. She seems young and naive. I do believe she was in love with him. Do I believe that it was reciprocal? No. Mutual admiration and respect of art, absolutely. Mutual love, yes. Romantic love? No. Perspective and speculation, this is what I heard. I feel perhaps he just wanted to give back later in life. Perhaps for guilt of his past professional relationships,I.e. Sheila E., Vanity, Bria. Delilah claims to have had the same type of relationship with Prince. Often drinking in secret, riding bikes, jamming into the wee hours. It's like a broken record. If you've heard one, you've heard them all. At the end of these interviews, I believe she is mourning him, BUT mourning what he offered and had planned for her career. It's almost as if she feels like people need to continue to further her career for her since he's gone. Her music sounds like a Prince record to me. Beautiful voice, unique voice....but it has him written all over it. It sounds like this was done to claim they were lovers and as a publicity stunt. He isn't here to claim otherwise. I think she was infatuated with everything around him. I wish her well and healing, Solely my opinion. [Edited 6/23/16 20:33pm]

Very well said!!!!

I agree with all you say. I dont pity her though. Judith should have been more proactive!

[Edited 7/2/16 8:05am]

rogifan said:

bluenotes said:

My thoughts, too. I guess we will never know what his true inner circle did or didn't try to do but I kind of wish someone had been like Johnny Manziel's dad and had the courage to call him out publicly. Maybe it would have worked and maybe not, but at least the world & Prince would have known for sure that somebody cared and somebody tried.

Called him out publicly for what? We know what caused his death but we know nothing about why he was taking this medication. But considering the man was known to lead a clean lifestyle it seems highly unlikely he was taking this stuff for recreational purposes. That's the complete opposite of Johnny Manziel.

And even the events recalled from Moline were very odd. "Eyes just fixed" doesn't sound like opioids.

The recovery sounded slow too.

"Eighteen minutes after landing, the ambulance took him to nearby Trinity Moline Hospital. By the time they arrived, he was awake and talking, Ms. Hill said, “which was such a relief to me, because I thought he was gone.”"

If it was soley respiratory depression from opioids, that was a slow recovery. If he was taking such high doses of opioids that one shot was not enough, then you would expect the treatment to trigger severe withdrawal - but that is not how she describes the scene:

"“He wasn’t dreary or drowsy, or anything,” she said. The mood was peaceful, and Prince seemed like his old self. “He wanted to watch ‘Zootopia,’"

So are we to believe a heavy opiate user was peaceful all night after a Narcan revival?

Her lack of awareness of his pain after being "with him" for 2 years is also telling: “I only know what everyone knows about his pain — I read about it,” she said. In person, “he was quick on his feet. Never said anything"

So it is not just on stage that there was no sign of this pain that is said to have needed Fentanyl, it is also not on show in his down times with close friends. People have suggested that the severe hip pain on performance might have been masked by opioids (despite anything other than a low dose being likely to severely impact the performance) but that he would suffer afterwards - however, in 2 years she never noticed this (I have never seen anyone with hip pain able to move anywhere close to the way he was doing). I don't think "Prince was superhuman and didn't show pain" is really the answer here.

Things are strange but certainly no-one should be judging this man or those around him. We don't know what they were all dealing with.

udo said:

laurarichardson said:

--- No one has said if he had one or not. Only law emforcement would know since personal medical records are not open to the public. We have heard nothing about the investigation from law enforcement at this time. Do not go by the media.

.

Said doesn't count.

Prince went on his bike to the doctor to get his medication but threw the prescription in the bin after he got the medication.

Even in such case the docter/apothecary would know and tell.

.

See http://www.msn.com/en-us/music/celebrity/prince%E2%80%99s-doctors-investigated-by-fbi-dea-after-overdose/ar-AAhQRXP?ocid=spartanntp

They mention two doctors.

Which one of them did prescribe him the opioids? None? Both?

Did they know of each others involvement?

Was what Prince did to himself within the guidelines they gave him?

udo said:

udo said:

.

Said doesn't count.

Prince went on his bike to the doctor to get his medication but threw the prescription in the bin after he got the medication.

Even in such case the docter/apothecary would know and tell.

.

See http://www.msn.com/en-us/music/celebrity/prince%E2%80%99s-doctors-investigated-by-fbi-dea-after-overdose/ar-AAhQRXP?ocid=spartanntp

They mention two doctors.

Which one of them did prescribe him the opioids? None? Both?

Did they know of each others involvement?

Was what Prince did to himself within the guidelines they gave him?

Yes, Dr Kornfield knew about Dr S's involvement. It was arranged that Dr S would meet Dr K's son at PP on the morning of the 21st.

The air traffic control audio from Prince's emergency landing in Moline was released to the public.

http://jackontheweb.cbslocal.com/2016/07/02/air-traffic-control-audio-from-princes-emergency-landing-released-to-public/

ACharmed1 said:

TopazGirl said:

Hey ACharmed1, I'm confused by your reply. I just mentioned that the photo seemed edited by whoever did the article as I did see the photo in the orginal article and it is the same dark, cropped picture that is posted here in this thread. Unless you are the photograher who took that picture or someone who did the article and you want to point out my mistake in saying the photo looks edited? (that is an honest question) Maybe I'm reading your reply wrong too. If so, my apologies.

No worries hun, I was just pointing out to those in general who kept saying it was edited that, that kind of edit is more so for artistic value and will not effect his appearence so much. I am a photographer but not the 1 who took it. I was just making a general statement in that with the little bit of editing wouldn't effect his general appearence. Plus I didn't want ppl thinking I took the photo or did the edit in case that was the thought. Sorry if it came off like I was disagreeing with what U said.

Ah, ok. Thank you for clarifying. Sometimes posts can be misread and I didn't want to misread what you said. No worries here either.

Fiona2006 said:

laytonian said:

It was arranged that Dr S would meet Dr K's son at PP on the morning of the 21st.

Would appreciate your source/link for that information. It doesn't match press conference or unsealed search warrant statements afaik (which may of course turn out to be incorrect as anything is possible).