inovio said:

LBrent said:

MattyJam said:

Best post I've read on the org in quite some time. It is so true what you say about Prince doing to others exactly what was done to him.

And for those argueing that Prince has a bigger right to own the masters for those albums than The Time/Family... would you say that about any other artist who made an album with an outside producer? Should Teddy Riley have a claim to Dangerous in ten years time? By that logic, Joshua Welton should own the master recordings to HitNRun Phase 1 and possibly AOA.

No, it's not the same. Look, just cuz you've worked at Krispy Kreme and made gazillions of donuts arm maybe even helped create new donut flavors AS PART OF YOUR JOB, doesn't mean that you own the name and recipe. If you open your own donut shop and use their name and recipe, you WILL get used by Krispy Kreme Corporation. That doesn't make them asshats. They're maintaining control of what they created and own. Why are folks not getting the difference between the two scenarios?

Thanks LBrent, I was going to say that.

Has anyone hear ever seen the movie the Five Heartbeats-its based on the Dells career. Anyway there is a scene where the group is performing at a talent show but the show organizers won't let their piano player play. The group goes on and performs but the piano player is jacking up their music and the group walks off the stage. Duck, the groups piano player, knocks the show's piano player out and starts playing the music the way it is supposd to be played.

He says"Its my music, it's my music"

IF Teddy Riley wrote, performed, and sang on the entire Dagerous album, he could stake a claim and most importantly Milli Vanillie can take their grammy's back.

tish9311 said:

Has anyone hear ever seen the movie the Five Heartbeats-its based on the Dells career. Anyway there is a scene where the group is performing at a talent show but the show organizers won't let their piano player play. The group goes on and performs but the piano player is jacking up their music and the group walks off the stage. Duck, the groups piano player, knocks the show's piano player out and starts playing the music the way it is supposd to be played.

He says"Its my music, it's my music"

IF Teddy Riley wrote, performed, and sang on the entire Dagerous album, he could stake a claim and most importantly Milli Vanillie can take their grammy's back.

Apples and oranges.

tish9311 said:

bluegangsta said:

And while I'm here, I think The Original Se7en and FDeluxe are much better names.

I agree.

LBrent said:

I wondered today, if there was a time machine and everyone from P's early days who didn't like him being so strict and supposedly working them so hard but they left and nobody cares about them professionally...Would go back and truly understand and appreciate what his vision was and what he was trying to include them in. I wondered if the whiners would regret their part in what all went down and in a "do over" sit down, cooperate, take direction and don't be so defiant.

Hard question.
The thing is I believe they did appreciate his vision. I believe they took it and worked their asses off to make it happen. There is no doubt about that.
A question would be though, did Prince appreciate his vision. Did Prince really appreciate here were these people (many friends) who worked with little pay to make it happen. Did Prince understand his vision by firing JimmyJam & Terry Lewis on the cusp of PR stardom.

Defiant. wow

And who said they didn't like working hard?

LBrent said:

tish9311 said:

Thanks LBrent, I was going to say that.

Thanx. It drives me crazy when I see folks saying "P fought WB then ended acting like WB with MD.. P's such a d*ck!" No. WB and MD are in the same category, folks he needed to struggle to keep his creations from. It only makes P look bad cuz to us WB is a giant faceless entity, we've seen MD and we can identify with him. But for me, no. F*ck MD. If he's so talented, make it. Make it under your own name. P's dead now. Let's see what other excuse for not being the best you can be. Or are you already being the best you can be, and have been all this time. Nobody would even know who you are if P hadn't put you on. Face it.

Who are Morris Day & Warner Brothes in the same category? That doesn't make sense.

He needed to keep his creations from Morris Day (and the Time) the group that regularly performed together and continued to keep the creation/legacy alive?

Understand that the 1980s was the foundation that helped Prince stay popular till his passing. then some early 90s built upon that.

LBrent said:

PeteSilas said:

It sounds like it's all conjecture from any of us, none of us really know. All I can say is that it looks meanspirited to me for him to do that to them, that's just my opinion. None of them, Prince included were really culturally relevant at the time and I don't see how it mattered. Why not let them try to make a living? I don't get it.

Start from any point after they left P, any or all of them could've pursued careers. If they were as talented as they thought they were. For the ones who did leave went on to careers, I applaud them. But I think it's pretty sad that SOME left, yet used P doing whatever as an excuse for not doing whatever. Morris is a whiny lil b*tch and ain't nobody check-in for his tired irrelevant azz. [Edited 7/24/16 11:44am]

Where is Morris whining?

in my opinion,Prince should have been encouraging these bands to continue.He should want this music to be exposed to future generations.The Time was his greatest protege band.He should have contributed a few tracks to Condensate (like they requested),allowed them to use their original name,and everyone would have been happy.It's not as if he had anything to lose.

OldFriends4Sale said:

LBrent said:

PeteSilas said: Start from any point after they left P, any or all of them could've pursued careers. If they were as talented as they thought they were. For the ones who did leave went on to careers, I applaud them. But I think it's pretty sad that SOME left, yet used P doing whatever as an excuse for not doing whatever. Morris is a whiny lil b*tch and ain't nobody check-in for his tired irrelevant azz. [Edited 7/24/16 11:44am]

Where is Morris whining?

Exactly.This guy keeps dissing Morris,but Morris hasn't said anything negative about Prince in the wake of his death.He's been paying tribute in concert and posting a ton of Prince pics on his FB page.He doesn't seem bitter or angry at Prince.

SoulAlive said:

in my opinion,Prince should have been encouraging these bands to continue.He should want this music to be exposed to future generations.The Time was his greatest protege band.He should have contributed a few tracks to Condensate (like they requested),allowed them to use their original name,and everyone would have been happy.It's not as if he had anything to lose.

It would have been a different level of promotion for Prince as well.

The Time & the Family wanted to do a song or 2 with Prince. The Time wanted to open 4 Prince.
It didn't make sense. His rejection was not a business decision.

Sinead OConner would not nor have honored Prince with Nothing Compares 2 U, FDeluxe always had.

Prince was The Time and The Family. He wrote the music and played the instruments and basically hired those people to do the videos and tour. So it makes sense to not allow them to do their own thing when it was really Prince's thing.

FunkiestOne said:

Prince was The Time and The Family. He wrote the music and played the instruments and basically hired those people to do the videos and tour. So it makes sense to not allow them to do their own thing when it was really Prince's thing.

It made no sense,

they honored Prince and (in light of Prince whiping away his own history) maybe that is what it was about? But all they would have done was shined a light on Prince's legacy.
the Family the Time Sheila E Mazarati Madhouse etc a part of the foundational years

why did Prince remove the Time from the the 2nd part of the 1999 tour? What did they do that was wrong?

FunkiestOne said:

Ingela said:

It was the right thing to do. These clowns abandoned Prince when he needed them most, when slbums ere cut and needed promoting. As Christian as anyone could be, I can imagine him being pissed off and nothing NOTHING could have swayed him to change his mind. Espeily when it was on their time schedule when it benefitted them, when THEY needed the money, Fuck that shit. I would do the same thing. Miserable ingrates.

what in the world are you talking about? Who abandoned Prince(when he needed them the most?)

As Christian as anyone could be? whaaaaa?

OldFriends4Sale said:

Ingela said:

Ingela said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

what in the world are you talking about? Who abandoned Prince(when he needed them the most?)

As Christian as anyone could be? whaaaaa?

What am I talking about? As a moderator you should know and not spout stupidities like this. They all had contracts with Prince to release and promote the Family album and St Paul was a little bitch and walked. The Time did the same. So stfu with your bullshit and not try and change history or pretend it something different. I put Alan and the rest in their place when they came on here with this bullshit and they promptly left with their tails behind them. [Edited 7/24/16 19:53pm]

What does being a Moderator have to do with it. And what did I spout. All I did what retype what you said... Stupities?

if they had contracts, then Prince could have held them to it / and they wouldn't be able to leave.
Vanity left too. What do you know of contracts?

And you can post nice or not at all.

Calm it down.

LBrent said:

FunkiestOne said:

Prince was The Time and The Family. He wrote the music and played the instruments and basically hired those people to do the videos and tour. So it makes sense to not allow them to do their own thing when it was really Prince's thing.

Exactly. And as far as MD's posthumous tributes...Whatever. That's nice e I guess, but cooperation while the person who was trying to make you successful might have been more appreciated. I keep seeing "Oh, they worked hard" "Oh, he was mean to them". I can only imagine how difficult it must have been to be trying to build an empire, trying to bring folks with you, and getting challenged and crap cuz "Oh, I'm talented tooooo. Don't forget that about meeeee!" It appears that some of the people working FOR him thought it was THEIR journey and forgot that they were being PAID to assist him as he went on HIS journey and along the way felt a way that he wanted to see this pyramid instead of visit that museum. "Prince was mean to me cuz he didn't indulge MY wishes on HIS journey." STFU. It was HIS story not YOUR whiny marginally talented azz. If you feel like you are his equal, by all means go out into the world and MAKE YOUR OWN STORY. Otherwise, come to work on time, do what you're asked, STFU, and enjoy the ride. The dog doesn't try to drive the car. He sits with his head out the window, enjoys the scenery and STFU. Sheesh [b]

So basically,you're saying that all of these people are nothing more than talentless puppets who contributed absolutely nothing You talk about Prince "building an empire",but guess what? He couldn't do it alone.He NEEDED these people,too.He needed Morris Day.It's hard to imagine the Purple Rain movie without Morris and his terrific,comedic acting.Prince was a genuis but let's stop acting like he is the ONLY one with talent.I personally love most of the Prince proteges and I continue to follow their careers.Something else: the success they had in the 80s was part of their journey,too.It's their legacy,too.Prince never would have had an "empire" without these people.Stop trying to diminish everyone else and what they brought to the table.

OldFriends4Sale said:

Ingela said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

What does being a Moderator have to do with it. And what did I spout. All I did what retype what you said... Stupities?

if they had contracts, then Prince could have held them to it / and they wouldn't be able to leave.
Vanity left too. What do you know of contracts?

And you can post nice or not at all.

Calm it down.

SNIP

Take some time and calm yourself

SoulAlive said:

LBrent said:

MattyJam said:

Best post I've read on the org in quite some time. It is so true what you say about Prince doing to others exactly what was done to him.

And for those argueing that Prince has a bigger right to own the masters for those albums than The Time/Family... would you say that about any other artist who made an album with an outside producer? Should Teddy Riley have a claim to Dangerous in ten years time? By that logic, Joshua Welton should own the master recordings to HitNRun Phase 1 and possibly AOA.

No, it's not the same. Look, just cuz you've worked at Krispy Kreme and made gazillions of donuts arm maybe even helped create new donut flavors AS PART OF YOUR JOB, doesn't mean that you own the name and recipe. If you open your own donut shop and use their name and recipe, you WILL get sued by Krispy Kreme Corporation. That doesn't make them asshats. They're maintaining control of what they created and own. Why are folks not getting the difference between the two scenarios? [Edited 7/24/16 11:45am]

...

[Edited 7/27/16 1:31am]

FunkiestOne said:

Prince was The Time and The Family. He wrote the music and played the instruments and basically hired those people to do the videos and tour. So it makes sense to not allow them to do their own thing when it was really Prince's thing.

The thing is, a lot of producers basically do the very same level of work you just described with artists they write and produce material for.

The only real difference is Prince is more famous as a solo artist than your average record producer or songwriter, so maybe that makes it seem more artistically justifable to some obsevers. The Teddy Riley/MJ analogy is apt, I'm sure he's got demos that sound like he just swapped out the vocal tracks, as do most producers originals.

[Edited 7/25/16 2:12am]

witnessmystyle said:

"Several of Prince's protégées i.e. The time and Wendy and Lisa were superior to him in many ways" LOL!!! This is one of the most hilarious & delusional things I've read in a long time. P was the force, period. True, some of his early employees were talented, but, they were employees and many (esp. his female sex objects) had little if any talent. 1. P could carry the Titanic & I imagine after years of everybody ridin' his coat tails & him workin' like a dog it must have felt that way. Especially when people who never were & never will be on his level try to over emphasize the importance of their contribution. It is pathetic because he always came off in interviews as very humble and grateful to those he worked with. It is a pity that those who gained their fame & career directly/only because of him can't show the same level of class, humility & honesty

[Edited 7/25/16 1:41am]

[Edited 7/25/16 1:45am]

1. Thing is, even Prince could only do that for a short period. As time has shown if he let the people who were skilled and talented enough to represent him(and they did it well) do more, that 'puppetmaster' period would have been much more successful. Not just that you had talented people who were put in a position of 'pretending' they were the musicians on What Time Is It or Romance 1600, but when the truth got out there, I bet it was a bit embarrassing and even Prince didn't like it much. He tried to get Cat Levi & Eric to lie about stuff in 1987. But he had the talen from writing, producing, playing and performing. Steph B could shred guitar, he was a monster on guitar, but he never played a not on one of those albums except 2 Sexy and Merci4theSpeedofAMadClownInSummer. Morris Day played a lot of drums on the albums, but from the first show it was 100% clear they could handle the music, and more importantly play the sound we call 'purple music' All of them back then did.

2. I don't think there is anyone doing that though.