Reply #240 posted 07/26/16 6:23pm
OldFriends4Sal
e |
Possessed the Rise & Fall of Prince
p. 178: “Gaines sent much of her weekly wage (about $ 2,200) home and had only $800 to her name when the tour ended. Just the same, she put her belongings in a truck and drove from Minneapolis to her home in Pittsburg, California, quitting the band for good. Although he would later work with Prince in the studio on several occasions, she would long harbour resentment about what she considers an absense of complete credit for her songwriting contributions on Diamonds and Pearls. ‘A lot of those were ideas the band came up with’, Gaines asserted. ‘He told us before doing [Diamonds and Pearls] that we were going to be like a family, we’re all going to do it together, and we’re going to share in it together, and we all trusted him. That's our fault for not getting it on paper.
When Gaines approached Prince about songwriting credit, he made it clear that he considered Diamonds & Pearls his work, and he disagreed that she deserved more money.
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Reply #241 posted 07/26/16 6:52pm
Goddess4Real 
|
OldFriends4Sale said:
Possessed the Rise & Fall of Prince
p. 178: “Gaines sent much of her weekly wage (about $ 2,200) home and had only $800 to her name when the tour ended. Just the same, she put her belongings in a truck and drove from Minneapolis to her home in Pittsburg, California, quitting the band for good. Although he would later work with Prince in the studio on several occasions, she would long harbour resentment about what she considers an absense of complete credit for her songwriting contributions on Diamonds and Pearls. ‘A lot of those were ideas the band came up with’, Gaines asserted. ‘He told us before doing [Diamonds and Pearls] that we were going to be like a family, we’re all going to do it together, and we’re going to share in it together, and we all trusted him. That's our fault for not getting it on paper.
When Gaines approached Prince about songwriting credit, he made it clear that he considered Diamonds & Pearls his work, and he disagreed that she deserved more money.
Has she really said that one record for real?, IMO some of these bios tend to make things like this up. [Edited 7/26/16 18:53pm] Keep Calm & Listen To Prince |
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Reply #242 posted 07/26/16 7:04pm
endiadj |
OldFriends4Sale said:
anotherlov3r said:
Agreed about the importance of a name. It's like a brand. But those names (The Time & The Family) were a product of mostly Prince & the other members. Once u take out Prince, they are no more. The other artists should respect that and move on accordingly. If they cannot stand on their own merits and creative direction, that has nothing to do with P.
the Time, Vanity (6), Sheila E. etc why move on accordingly? Even Prince went back 2 Prince
how, why...
Why doesn't Queen Latifah go by Dana Owens now that she is not a rapper? As well as many of ther other rappers, who no longer rap?
Prince was his real name. completely different. |
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Reply #243 posted 07/26/16 7:04pm
ksgemini63 |
Yes this was rosie's experience True Goddess4Real said:
OldFriends4Sale said:
Possessed the Rise & Fall of Prince
p. 178: “Gaines sent much of her weekly wage (about $ 2,200) home and had only $800 to her name when the tour ended. Just the same, she put her belongings in a truck and drove from Minneapolis to her home in Pittsburg, California, quitting the band for good. Although he would later work with Prince in the studio on several occasions, she would long harbour resentment about what she considers an absense of complete credit for her songwriting contributions on Diamonds and Pearls. ‘A lot of those were ideas the band came up with’, Gaines asserted. ‘He told us before doing [Diamonds and Pearls] that we were going to be like a family, we’re all going to do it together, and we’re going to share in it together, and we all trusted him. That's our fault for not getting it on paper.
When Gaines approached Prince about songwriting credit, he made it clear that he considered Diamonds & Pearls his work, and he disagreed that she deserved more money.
Has she really said that one record for real?, IMO some of these bios tend to make things like this up. [Edited 7/26/16 18:53pm] |
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Reply #244 posted 07/26/16 7:38pm
Goddess4Real
|
ksgemini63 said:
Yes this was rosie's experience True Goddess4Real said:
Has she really said that one record for real?, IMO some of these bios tend to make things like this up.
[Edited 7/26/16 18:53pm]
However some of these bios make quotes up. Years ago I was reading this bio about Audrey Hepburn saying she had a secret child, and it turned out to be fake, she never gave this interview to this author and it was denounced by her estate. [Edited 7/26/16 19:38pm] Keep Calm & Listen To Prince |
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Reply #245 posted 07/26/16 7:49pm
OldFriends4Sal
e |
endiadj said:
OldFriends4Sale said:
the Time, Vanity (6), Sheila E. etc why move on accordingly? Even Prince went back 2 Prince
how, why...
Why doesn't Queen Latifah go by Dana Owens now that she is not a rapper? As well as many of ther other rappers, who no longer rap?
Prince was his real name. completely different.
I mean he changed the name, even after the WB issue was over he recorded and pushed the Symbol as his name. He talked about the evolution of him going from Prince 2 0+> I mean it was serious.
And he went back to Prince and I believe a lot of it had to do with the same struggles someone else would go through if they are know as A for a long time then become Z
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Reply #246 posted 07/26/16 9:18pm
ksgemini63 |
Turn me on dead man OldFriends4Sale said:
endiadj said:
OldFriends4Sale said:
the Time, Vanity (6), Sheila E. etc why move on accordingly? Even Prince went back 2 Prince
how, why...
Why doesn't Queen Latifah go by Dana Owens now that she is not a rapper? As well as many of ther other rappers, who no longer rap?
Prince was his real name. completely different.
I mean he changed the name, even after the WB issue was over he recorded and pushed the Symbol as his name. He talked about the evolution of him going from Prince 2 0+> I mean it was serious. And he went back to Prince and I believe a lot of it had to do with the same struggles someone else would go through if they are know as A for a long time then become Z |
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Reply #247 posted 07/27/16 1:12am
PurpleMusic07 |
LBrent said: PurpleMusic07 said:
LBrent said:
Those projects, whether he abandoned them or not, were his to abandon. They weren't theirs to move forward with. They walked away with knowledge, experience and business contacts..Oh...and their talent. If their argument was that they wanted to express their own personal talent, they were free to do so...the names shouldn't have mattered if they were as talented as they thought they were. Heck, they could've used their own birth names...like P did... If people wanted to see MD perform, billing himself as Morris Day would've fulfilled that. Same with anyone else who left. P's fight against WB involved them preventing his free use not only of his creations, but the associated use of his BIRTH NAME. Not a made up band name. His birth name. Or as he put it in an interview, the "name my mother gave me at birth". P never prevented MD or anyone else from using their BIRTH NAME. He didn't allow them to use the name HE CREATED and allowed them to use when they were EMPLOYED by him. Not the same thing. What's uncool about that? Because after they left without the name he created nobody was checking for them? Funny. Terry and Jimmy, Wendy and Lisa, Mark Brown, Matt Finke, Bobby Rivkin, Dez Dickerson and others did just fine...Oh. Wait...Were they using names P created or their own? Hmmm... [Edited 7/25/16 11:42am]
I go back to what I said, Prince was never good about seperating busness and pleasure and this is a prime example of how and why those two things should be clearly defined when working with people that you are VERY close to. A note on branding: yes they could have absolutely continued on without him, but as is often the case with BRANDING - business people and the public alike connect w/ the brand, not necessariily the individual(s) behind it. Maybe labels didn't want Morris Day, maybe they wanted The Time. Perhaps it was difficult getting meaningful promotion (pre-internet and on a tight budget) without the name. the NAME is what they were made as and it is the name that everyone associated with. Folks aren't great at trying new things. And yes when it's all said and done, Prince had the musical magic. The Time as an group is very talented, but Prince's production was the star. The public doesn't want new Morris Day music, they want new music frmo The Time, they want that familiar sound. Everyone has their purpose and talents. It is what it is. Morris and co. are talented folks regardless. Talent and success are not mutually exclusive. Prince is VERY VERY lucky. The best thing Wendy and Lisa did was get behind the scenes workin on film and TV scores. Why? Because those areas do not require a strong brand, they require a simple ability to do the work. They're not being hired as "wendy and lisa" former members of the Revolution. As I originally said, he wasn't technically wrong, and it was all legal. But you don't do your friends that way. Exactly! You say P was "lucky"? I agree that he created his own luck... Prince was lucky because talent and success are not exclusive to each other. There are SOO many talented, incredible people producing high quality workk who never pop the way that they should because of a variety of factors. Even our beloved Prince would not be what he became without the "luck" of purple rain. No one knew at tthe time that the film would be the monster that it was. of course they wanted it to be successful and probably thought tht ittt would be but purple rain single handedly launched Prince into the straisphere. Yes prince was increeeeedibly talented and focused and hardworking but the kind of success that he had? That shit just isnt predictable. A lot of elemnts aligned properly for things to work. And it honestly was probably a detriment in the long run for most people that came out of his camp, at least on a mainstream level. "Where you are now is in a place that does not require time." - Rest In Power, PRINCE |
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Reply #248 posted 07/27/16 1:12am
PurpleMusic07 |
LBrent said: SoulAlive said: When you say "lack of talent",specifically,who are you referring to? I assume you're not talking about the guys in The Time,because all of them are real musicians.Even Morris Day can play drums.I also don't think you're referring to Sheila E.,who is considered one of the best drummers in the business.
witnessmystyle said:
Many of his ex-employees (including ones he was sexually involved with) ACTIVELY promote and cling-on to the past because that is what/all they are known for, again due to THEIR lack of talent
SheilaE has always stood on her OWN merits. I've never seen her bill herself in terms of her connection to performing with P. She doesn't need to. Sheila has certainly used the Prince connection to her advantage, but at the same time she was in the industry and doing very well for herself pre-Prince. "Where you are now is in a place that does not require time." - Rest In Power, PRINCE |
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Reply #249 posted 07/27/16 9:12am
OldFriends4Sal
e |
Goddess4Real said:
OldFriends4Sale said:
Possessed the Rise & Fall of Prince
p. 178: “Gaines sent much of her weekly wage (about $ 2,200) home and had only $800 to her name when the tour ended. Just the same, she put her belongings in a truck and drove from Minneapolis to her home in Pittsburg, California, quitting the band for good. Although he would later work with Prince in the studio on several occasions, she would long harbour resentment about what she considers an absense of complete credit for her songwriting contributions on Diamonds and Pearls. ‘A lot of those were ideas the band came up with’, Gaines asserted. ‘He told us before doing [Diamonds and Pearls] that we were going to be like a family, we’re all going to do it together, and we’re going to share in it together, and we all trusted him. That's our fault for not getting it on paper.
When Gaines approached Prince about songwriting credit, he made it clear that he considered Diamonds & Pearls his work, and he disagreed that she deserved more money.
Has she really said that one record for real?, IMO some of these bios tend to make things like this up.
[Edited 7/26/16 18:53pm]
yes she did.
here is another insight into how Prince saw himself back then. I would assume how he handled those bands/members are a part of this
“I was anti-authoritarian but at the same time I was a loving tyrant. You can’t be both. I had to learn what authority was. That’s what the Bible teaches. The Bible is a study guide for social interaction.” He puts it another way. “If I go to a place where I don’t feel stressed and there’s no car alarms and airplanes overhead, then you understand what noise pollution is. Noise is a society that has no God, that has no glue. We can’t do what we want to do all the time. If you don’t have boundaries, what then?”
Dorian Lynskey
Thursday 23 June 2011 15.00 EDT
Prince: 'I'm a musician. And I am music' |
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Reply #250 posted 07/27/16 12:37pm
PurpleMusic07 |
OldFriends4Sale said:
Goddess4Real said:
OldFriends4Sale said:
Possessed the Rise & Fall of Prince
p. 178: “Gaines sent much of her weekly wage (about $ 2,200) home and had only $800 to her name when the tour ended. Just the same, she put her belongings in a truck and drove from Minneapolis to her home in Pittsburg, California, quitting the band for good. Although he would later work with Prince in the studio on several occasions, she would long harbour resentment about what she considers an absense of complete credit for her songwriting contributions on Diamonds and Pearls. ‘A lot of those were ideas the band came up with’, Gaines asserted. ‘He told us before doing [Diamonds and Pearls] that we were going to be like a family, we’re all going to do it together, and we’re going to share in it together, and we all trusted him. That's our fault for not getting it on paper.
When Gaines approached Prince about songwriting credit, he made it clear that he considered Diamonds & Pearls his work, and he disagreed that she deserved more money.
Has she really said that one record for real?, IMO some of these bios tend to make things like this up.
[Edited 7/26/16 18:53pm]
yes she did.
here is another insight into how Prince saw himself back then. I would assume how he handled those bands/members are a part of this
“I was anti-authoritarian but at the same time I was a loving tyrant. You can’t be both. I had to learn what authority was. That’s what the Bible teaches. The Bible is a study guide for social interaction.” He puts it another way. “If I go to a place where I don’t feel stressed and there’s no car alarms and airplanes overhead, then you understand what noise pollution is. Noise is a society that has no God, that has no glue. We can’t do what we want to do all the time. If you don’t have boundaries, what then?”
Dorian Lynskey
Thursday 23 June 2011 15.00 EDT
Prince: 'I'm a musician. And I am music' Rosie said it best "we should have gotten it on paper that's our fault". I don't know why it's so hard for people to believe that Prince deceived people. Desception and manipulation are human qualities. At least she's adult enough to see where she fucked up in it all. Anyone that has done creative things knows that when you're working with others ideas get thrown out there and others might help you build upon the ideas that you have already laid out. The question then becomes what is the arrangement, what contributions are considered significant enough for credit. Clearly Prince considered all as work for hire. Ok fine, quit with the community and family peptalks. [Edited 7/27/16 12:41pm]"Where you are now is in a place that does not require time." - Rest In Power, PRINCE |
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Reply #251 posted 07/27/16 12:39pm
OldFriends4Sal
e |
PurpleMusic07 said:
OldFriends4Sale said:
yes she did.
here is another insight into how Prince saw himself back then. I would assume how he handled those bands/members are a part of this
“I was anti-authoritarian but at the same time I was a loving tyrant. You can’t be both. I had to learn what authority was. That’s what the Bible teaches. The Bible is a study guide for social interaction.” He puts it another way. “If I go to a place where I don’t feel stressed and there’s no car alarms and airplanes overhead, then you understand what noise pollution is. Noise is a society that has no God, that has no glue. We can’t do what we want to do all the time. If you don’t have boundaries, what then?”
Dorian Lynskey
Thursday 23 June 2011 15.00 EDT
Prince: 'I'm a musician. And I am music'
Rosie said it best "we should have gotten it on player that's our fault". I don't know why it's so hard for people to believe that Prince deceived people. Description and manipulation are human qualities. At least she's adult enough to see where she fucked up in it all. Anyone that has done creative things knows that when you're working with others ideas get thrown out there and others might help you build upon the ideas that you have already laid out. The question then becomes what is the arrangement, what contributions are considered significant enough for credit. Clearly Prince curated it all as work for hire. Ok fine, quit with the community and family peptalks.
LOL Did you mean to say player or paper? LOL somehow Player worked
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Reply #252 posted 07/27/16 12:40pm
PurpleMusic07 |
OldFriends4Sale said:
PurpleMusic07 said:
OldFriends4Sale said:
yes she did.
here is another insight into how Prince saw himself back then. I would assume how he handled those bands/members are a part of this
“I was anti-authoritarian but at the same time I was a loving tyrant. You can’t be both. I had to learn what authority was. That’s what the Bible teaches. The Bible is a study guide for social interaction.” He puts it another way. “If I go to a place where I don’t feel stressed and there’s no car alarms and airplanes overhead, then you understand what noise pollution is. Noise is a society that has no God, that has no glue. We can’t do what we want to do all the time. If you don’t have boundaries, what then?”
Dorian Lynskey
Thursday 23 June 2011 15.00 EDT
Prince: 'I'm a musician. And I am music'
Rosie said it best "we should have gotten it on player that's our fault". I don't know why it's so hard for people to believe that Prince deceived people. Description and manipulation are human qualities. At least she's adult enough to see where she fucked up in it all. Anyone that has done creative things knows that when you're working with others ideas get thrown out there and others might help you build upon the ideas that you have already laid out. The question then becomes what is the arrangement, what contributions are considered significant enough for credit. Clearly Prince curated it all as work for hire. Ok fine, quit with the community and family peptalks.
LOL Did you mean to say player or paper? LOL somehow Player worked Haha yes! I edited the original comment already. My tablet's auto correct is weird. "Where you are now is in a place that does not require time." - Rest In Power, PRINCE |
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Reply #253 posted 07/28/16 9:31am
OldFriends4Sal
e |
Tina left and divorced Ike Turner
the only thing she wanted from him was the right to keep his name.
She probably would have not had the success she did if she couldn't use the name.
Technically she could/should have went back to Anna Mae Bullock
Murray also convinced Turner to make Anna "the star of the show." It was at this point that Ike Turner renamed Anna Mae Bullock "Tina", because the name rhymed with the television character Sheena. It has also been said that the renaming of Anna Mae Bullock was intended to keep her from running off and making a name for herself. Ike Turner felt that, if Anna Mae Bullock left him, he could replace her with another singer and have her perform as Tina |
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Reply #254 posted 07/28/16 9:42am
purplethunder3
121 
|
OldFriends4Sale said:
Tina left and divorced Ike Turner
the only thing she wanted from him was the right to keep his name.
She probably would have not had the success she did if she couldn't use the name.
Technically she could/should have went back to Anna Mae Bullock
Murray also convinced Turner to make Anna "the star of the show." It was at this point that Ike Turner renamed Anna Mae Bullock "Tina", because the name rhymed with the television character Sheena. It has also been said that the renaming of Anna Mae Bullock was intended to keep her from running off and making a name for herself. Ike Turner felt that, if Anna Mae Bullock left him, he could replace her with another singer and have her perform as Tina
The name "Anna Mae Bullock" just didn't have the same panache as "Tina Turner." And Ike was wrong, Anna Mae became Tina Turner, the music icon, and he couldn't replace her. "Music gives a soul to the universe, wings to the mind, flight to the imagination and life to everything." --Plato
https://youtu.be/CVwv9LZMah0 |
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Reply #255 posted 07/28/16 11:18am
PurpleMusic07 |
OldFriends4Sale said:
Tina left and divorced Ike Turner
the only thing she wanted from him was the right to keep his name.
She probably would have not had the success she did if she couldn't use the name.
Technically she could/should have went back to Anna Mae Bullock
Murray also convinced Turner to make Anna "the star of the show." It was at this point that Ike Turner renamed Anna Mae Bullock "Tina", because the name rhymed with the television character Sheena. It has also been said that the renaming of Anna Mae Bullock was intended to keep her from running off and making a name for herself. Ike Turner felt that, if Anna Mae Bullock left him, he could replace her with another singer and have her perform as Tina
^^ This. What's in a name? Everything. It's the reason why branding is such an important thing. You're nothing w/o your brand. That's not to say that you can't start fresh and rebuild, but it's TOUGH. It's one of the reasons that once Prince became  things were different. was a joke and the public simply couldn't identify him. PRINCE was the brand that everyone knew and was familiar with. It's the reason that if you ask A LOT of people what were some 90s prince songs they coudn't name much after Diamonds and Pearls (save for Most Beautiful Girl, MAYBE) and possibly the Greatest Romance.
If Macy's suddenly became Sheila's and still had the same assortment of goods would people still shop there? Maybe, but the brand loyalty and brand recognition would be gone. "Where you are now is in a place that does not require time." - Rest In Power, PRINCE |
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Reply #256 posted 07/28/16 12:14pm
OldFriends4Sal
e |
purplethunder3121 said:
OldFriends4Sale said:
Tina left and divorced Ike Turner
the only thing she wanted from him was the right to keep his name.
She probably would have not had the success she did if she couldn't use the name.
Technically she could/should have went back to Anna Mae Bullock
Murray also convinced Turner to make Anna "the star of the show." It was at this point that Ike Turner renamed Anna Mae Bullock "Tina", because the name rhymed with the television character Sheena. It has also been said that the renaming of Anna Mae Bullock was intended to keep her from running off and making a name for herself. Ike Turner felt that, if Anna Mae Bullock left him, he could replace her with another singer and have her perform as Tina
The name "Anna Mae Bullock" just didn't have the same panache as "Tina Turner." And Ike was wrong, Anna Mae became Tina Turner, the music icon, and he couldn't replace her.
I think merry ole England when read Bullocks lol
Yeah, if she wanted to start over as a Folk artist it might work
Tina Turner became bigger than Ike Turner no way he could replace her she defined that name. She is mold for Tina, no one else would have been able to fill it. He would have had to have 5 different Tina's as the same time to keep it from being so concretely filled by Ms Bullocks
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Reply #257 posted 07/28/16 12:18pm
OldFriends4Sal
e |
PurpleMusic07 said:
OldFriends4Sale said:
Tina left and divorced Ike Turner
the only thing she wanted from him was the right to keep his name.
She probably would have not had the success she did if she couldn't use the name.
Technically she could/should have went back to Anna Mae Bullock
Murray also convinced Turner to make Anna "the star of the show." It was at this point that Ike Turner renamed Anna Mae Bullock "Tina", because the name rhymed with the television character Sheena. It has also been said that the renaming of Anna Mae Bullock was intended to keep her from running off and making a name for herself. Ike Turner felt that, if Anna Mae Bullock left him, he could replace her with another singer and have her perform as Tina
^^ This. What's in a name? Everything. It's the reason why branding is such an important thing. You're nothing w/o your brand. That's not to say that you can't start fresh and rebuild, but it's TOUGH. It's one of the reasons that once Prince became things were different. was a joke and the public simply couldn't identify him. PRINCE was the brand that everyone knew and was familiar with. It's the reason that if you ask A LOT of people what were some 90s prince songs they coudn't name much after Diamonds and Pearls (save for Most Beautiful Girl, MAYBE) and possibly the Greatest Romance.
If Macy's suddenly became Sheila's and still had the same assortment of goods would people still shop there? Maybe, but the brand loyalty and brand recognition would be gone.
100% correct
That is a good anaogy. Macy's being Sheila's would totally loose business. Names are powerful.
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Reply #258 posted 07/28/16 7:57pm
TrevorAyer |
Curious ... was the revolution allowed to perform as the revolution after prince fired them all? I mean all those years ago .. not now
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Reply #259 posted 07/29/16 5:04am
OldFriends4Sal
e |
TrevorAyer said:
Curious ... was the revolution allowed to perform as the revolution after prince fired them all? I mean all those years ago .. not now
I don't think there is an answer. After 86 they all went and did seperate things (Dr Fink still working with Prince till 1990) I think the probably need to distance themselves a bit.
At Sheila E's Family jam the Revolution did perform. What music did they do?
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