roxy831 said:

Dibblekins said:

Just watching the BBC coverage of Muhammed Ali's funeral arrangements; his family's eagerness to inform and involve the fans; how open and celebratory the whole thing appears to be, both in terms of clarity as to how the man passed, and embracing people's natural desire to participate and rejoice in all the man gave whilst alive.


It made me feel incredibly sad and, I suppose, sort of cheated by how things have gone down with Prince's passing...Celebrating his life, with little to no official endorsement or enthusiasm (thus far) from his family seems incredibly difficult when there are so many unanswered questions and when we appear to be being kept at arm's length. Forgive me - maybe I am not entitled to feel this way, but I can't help it.

Though I understand what you're saying, I don't think it's a fair comparison. Muhammad Ali lived his life pretty much as an open and engaging book. Prince did not. His family and the state of Minnesota is just following his lead.

I get that, I really do. I'm not trying to compare them as individuals, more the way the 'saying goodbye' process has been conducted...

Prince invited people into his home to see him perform right up to his death; he revealed quite a lot about his inner life via his lyrics...Whilst on one level, he was undeniably private and enigmatic, on the other hand there seemed to be quite a deep sense of love, appreciation, respect and honesty for / with his 'fams'...Don't get me wrong, I don't expect anything from anyone - but there seems no 'closure' in a sense - no word on a final, 'official' tribute - just nothing...Maybe it's just me, but I feel PERPLEXED more than anything else!

derrick31 said:

EloiseEloise said

Another tabloid article, not sure if it has been seen much... http://hollywoodlife.com/.../#comments

I wouldn't put too much stock in a site that uses the National Enquirer as a source!

Dibblekins said:

Just watching the BBC coverage of Muhammed Ali's funeral arrangements; his family's eagerness to inform and involve the fans; how open and celebratory the whole thing appears to be, both in terms of clarity as to how the man passed, and embracing people's natural desire to participate and rejoice in all the man gave whilst alive.


It made me feel incredibly sad and, I suppose, sort of cheated by how things have gone down with Prince's passing...Celebrating his life, with little to no official endorsement or enthusiasm (thus far) from his family seems incredibly difficult when there are so many unanswered questions and when we appear to be being kept at arm's length. Forgive me - maybe I am not entitled to feel this way, but I can't help it.

ya, but ali was always a man who was wide open to the world, that's why I loved him, i almost went to visit him a couple times and there's a good chance he would have welcomed me. Prince held back so much, you could expect things to be like this somewhat, his family? well his family doesn't really seem that prepared or equipped to deal with any of this.

Dibblekins said:

roxy831 said:

Though I understand what you're saying, I don't think it's a fair comparison. Muhammad Ali lived his life pretty much as an open and engaging book. Prince did not. His family and the state of Minnesota is just following his lead.

I get that, I really do. I'm not trying to compare them as individuals, more the way the 'saying goodbye' process has been conducted...

Prince invited people into his home to see him perform right up to his death; he revealed quite a lot about his inner life via his lyrics...Whilst on one level, he was undeniably private and enigmatic, on the other hand there seemed to be quite a deep sense of love, appreciation, respect and honesty for / with his 'fams'...Don't get me wrong, I don't expect anything from anyone - but there seems no 'closure' in a sense - no word on a final, 'official' tribute - just nothing...Maybe it's just me, but I feel PERPLEXED more than anything else!

Not really. Prince occasionally opened his home on his terms but he has never been anywhere near as accessible as Ali. I read that the family is organizing an official memorial to take place in August though.

Secondly, just to remind everyone again, unlike Ali's family, the Nelsons are dealing with a probate case, a sheriff's investigation, a DEA inquiry and who knows what else? Until the court and administratiors of the estate free up some funds they don't really have the resources to hold a big event. The two families are not in the same position.

Hope that clears things up for you.

PeteSilas said:

Dibblekins said:

Just watching the BBC coverage of Muhammed Ali's funeral arrangements; his family's eagerness to inform and involve the fans; how open and celebratory the whole thing appears to be, both in terms of clarity as to how the man passed, and embracing people's natural desire to participate and rejoice in all the man gave whilst alive.


It made me feel incredibly sad and, I suppose, sort of cheated by how things have gone down with Prince's passing...Celebrating his life, with little to no official endorsement or enthusiasm (thus far) from his family seems incredibly difficult when there are so many unanswered questions and when we appear to be being kept at arm's length. Forgive me - maybe I am not entitled to feel this way, but I can't help it.

ya, but ali was always a man who was wide open to the world, that's why I loved him, i almost went to visit him a couple times and there's a good chance he would have welcomed me. Prince held back so much, you could expect things to be like this somewhat, his family? well his family doesn't really seem that prepared or equipped to deal with any of this.

Now I have to change my avi again....

babynoz said:

PeteSilas said:

ya, but ali was always a man who was wide open to the world, that's why I loved him, i almost went to visit him a couple times and there's a good chance he would have welcomed me. Prince held back so much, you could expect things to be like this somewhat, his family? well his family doesn't really seem that prepared or equipped to deal with any of this.

Now I have to change my avi again....

haha, like two women showing up at a party with the same dress, suckit up buttercup

PeteSilas said:

babynoz said:

Now I have to change my avi again....

haha, like two women showing up at a party with the same dress, suckit up buttercup

Nope....already changed.

babynoz said:

PeteSilas said:

haha, like two women showing up at a party with the same dress, suckit up buttercup

Nope....already changed.

I won't be on here forever, you should have left it.

PeteSilas said:

babynoz said:

Nope....already changed.

I won't be on here forever, you should have left it.

Neither will I, so it's cool....

EloiseEloise said:

Tresha68 said:

EloiseEloise said:

Another tabloid article, not sure if it has been seen much... http://hollywoodlife.com/.../#comments

Sadly, this is what I truly think happened.

No offense, but holy crap. All I did was read the headline and closed the page. Committing suicide over an illness? C'mon people. His death was ruled accidental and for them to determine accidental means they have to go through all of his medical records, interview people, etc. to get a sense of his frame of mind at the time of death as well as look at his current health. Just sayin'.

Prince frustrates his fans from beyond the grave. Kind of ridiculous really. Ali died two days ago and there weren't any autopsies or waiting games played, they gave the answer the next day. It doesn't really matter how but It does help to process the passing. We'll get more answers, whoever gave him the fenalywhatever it's called if he's an md they will catch him and he will have to answer, if he says he was giving them to him just to give them to him then he's gonna be in a world of shit. We'll find out.

TopazGirl said:

prince didnt want to share anything when he was alive why would it be different in death.i dont want to sound mean but just like he said "all i want is to be left alone"

Dibblekins said:

morningsong said:

disch said:

TopazGirl said:

I know many of you think that Prince might have had a terminal illness. I don't think he did,

Source: http://www.startribune.co...381663221/

I question the terminal illness assumption too -- in part because the death report said: "Other significant conditions: n/a." It seems if he had a terminal illness -- and especially if the drug he ODed on was prescribed to him as part of his treatment -- it would've been mentioned on the report...

Yeah, there is that.

Tresha68 said:

Death certificate only states causes of death. Even if he had a terminal illness, it did not cause his death. That would be stated in the autopsy report along with radiographic findings etc.

Thank you Tresha68. People need to read this and understand what it says...because that isn't happening apparently since people keep saying over and over any other issues would be on the public record. Exact cause of death ONLY is what is shown on the public record per Minnesota law. "Public record includes the manner and cause of death" is taken directly from the Press Release. The press release coversheet to the public record stated that NOTHING else need be said if it didn't cause death. Any underlying issues/disease would not be addressed because they did not cause death. The actual autopsy report which goes to the family would include everything.

[Edited 6/6/16 12:58pm]

morningsong said:

how was he /his dr administering the fen drug??? inject/pills/ patch ????? very important

luvsexy4all said:

how was he /his dr administering the fen drug??? inject/pills/ patch ????? very important

Don't know, it wasn't officially disclosed. But if we're in the game of making assumptions, I would think pills, since it's been said that Percocet was found on him, then I'm assuming someone simply made a mistake, and mistook the type of a pills found in his possession. Then there is if he injected it, it would have acted very quickly and the odds are high he would have been found with a needle in his possession instead, so there is a slight possibility he injected it but I'm guessing it's the least likely considering where he was found. Having a patch is still possible, especially if he did have an excessive weight loss and a single patch was suitable for his normal weight, or that detoxing weakened his resistance, or worse he put on 2 patches. I'm concluding that pills are the most likely suspect.



I still wondering if he could have gotten a legal prescription outside of the country? The DEA would have no jurisdiction in such a case, I don't think.

Prince was very ill and anyone who can look at this photo and say otherwise is lying to themselves. This photo is with make up. What would he have looked like without make-up? Prince aged quickly within a year which wouldn't be normal for a man who had always looked much younger than his age and took good care of himself. This is a photo of a dying man. I'm stunned by his family's decision to remain silent and let Prince go down in history as another great artist who OD on drugs, prescription heroin at that. Queen fans know exactly what killed Freddie Mercury and don't think anything less of him because of it. This is terribly sad.

[Edited 6/6/16 23:44pm]

derrick31 said:

rogifan said:

derrick31 said:

Prince was very ill and anyone who can look at this photo and say otherwise is lying to themselves. This photo is with make up. What would he have looked like without make-up? Prince aged quickly within a year which wouldn't be normal for a man who had always looked much younger than his age and took good care of himself. This is a photo of a dying man. I'm stunned by his family's decision to remain silent and let Prince go down in history as another great artist who OD on drugs, prescription heroin at that. Queen fans know exactly what killed Freddie Mercury and don't think anything less of him because of it. This is terribly sad.

[Edited 6/6/16 23:44pm]

Derrick, I couldn't agree more. He was dying. It saddens me that his family or even his friends won't come forward. Which leads me to believe he did have AIDS. YES, you can be married and have a full relationship with your spouse if precautions are taken. I have had many AIDS patients as patients in my hygiene chair. They are no different from you or I. Most, in my case, were heterosexual females. I have been tested multiple times as well. Just saying he was ill and dying would give him the dignity he so deserves. I personally feel offended, IF this is the case. He is like not other, he had faults and was just as human as we are.

The death certificate only has to disclose the cause and manner of death. I remember when my grandma died, my mom was so afraid they were going to put "starvation" on her death certificate and not Cancer. I believe it was cancer/cachexia. I beileve Prince was cachaxic. Meaning, wasting away from illness. 112# is nothing even for a man of his petite stature, take away skeletal weight of 12-15# and that is 97#. That is an ill man. It was stated in a media release and I can't find it, when they read the report it stated Fentynal Patches. One patch or two plus percocet and an empty stomach...plus, if he was on anti-viral meds....that is a lethal combination for ANYONE.

My heart hurts, knowing he will go down in history as another "junkie". Even if the Death Certificate states accidental, that is what people think.

derrick31 said:

rogifan said:

As a fan I have to say it's sad to see all these different theories floating around, none of which are based in hard facts. The only hard fact we have is the medical examiner's report. Everything else is newspaper/tabloid gossip and has no place here or anywhere else.

A death certificate isn't actually a medical report. It just states why he died that day, not what could've have been wrong with him. Why not just release the autopsy reprort like MJ's family did. That would end all public speculation. Beterr yet why doesn't the estate sue the Enquirer or at the very least issue a cease and desist letter. They won't because they'd have to prove the reports are false and they can't.

BINGO! I said that and it pissed people off. NOT here, another group. He was a kind, decent human being. Period. Let people know that.

TopazGirl said:

derrick31 said:

cardinal said: I agree. By concealing what seems likely, Prince is going to be remembered in the same vain as Elvis. I don't believe he was an addict myself. Again too many things over the past couple of years point to a terminal illness. I hear a lot of people who knew Prince saying he wasn't an addict, but I hear very few denying the Enquirer story. If the doctor is being investigated and is charged, he will testify as to why he gave Prince such a strong painkiller. A painkiller often used for the terminally ill. Also, it was reported he was bringing test results to Prince. Test results for what? [Edited 6/4/16 18:59pm]

I know many of you think that Prince might have had a terminal illness. I don't think he did, but I can respect your opinions. I would just like to mention that he was seeking help from a local doctor for opioid addiction.

"The day before his death, Prince was treated by a local doctor for withdrawal symptoms from opioid addiction. The physician, Dr. Michael Todd Schulenberg, a family practitioner, treated Prince for fatigue, anemia and concerns about opiate withdrawal. Schulenberg, however, did not prescribe opioids to Prince, a source has said."

I don't think he was an addict in the way some might think, but I think he may have had a dependency. So, he was trying to get off the opioids. Why would he try to get off pain meds if he needed them to deal with a terminal illness? Also, it is not known yet if he had a valid prescription for Fentanyl and that is perhaps why there is a criminal investigation as to where, why, and how he got ahold of Fentanyl. Given all of this, I can presume that he may have not been given a prescription for Fentanyl. So to say he was taking this powerful drug to treat a terminal illness would be void also, is where my thoughts are led to.

Source: http://www.startribune.co...381663221/

-

Somehow and for some reason, people have been ignoring that. Some people seem hellbent on Prince being terminally ill. Why? I have no idea.

In an England a death certificate will state the DIRECT cause of the death (1a) and the the underlying cause and sequelae that led to such cause (1b,1c,1d etc). And then also any other contributing factor not related to the above sequelae (2).

So for eg, in Prince's case it could have been 1a. asphyxiation 1b. CNS depression 1c. Fentanyl toxicity 1d. accidental overdose 1e. Opiod addiction. With maybe cachexia listed as a confounding factor under (2).

In England the cause of death would be the LAST of the 1a,1b,1c etc list. So in the example above Opiod addiction would be the coded cause of death. (THE ABOVE ARE JUST EXAMPLES I'VE PLUGGED IN - NOT WHAT I THINK HAPPENED).

I'm not sure how this differs to the way Prince's death certificate was released and what had to be included?

If it is the same as the system I described above, and Fentantly toxicity was released as the underlying cause of death (as well as the mode in this case) then it suggests it was not prescribed for any condition, nor was there an underlying addiction...... But I guess the system is probably different