databank said:
Thing that always puzzled me is that the US has always been ahead of Europe on so many things and at the same time is so late by comparison to us when it comes to bigotry and superstition. For example the whole creationism vs. evolution in school thing is unthinkeable in Europe. It's very strange to me. I have to say the cover wasn't an issue in the UK, I had both posters in A1 (3ft) size on my wall as a fourteen year old. I'm not sure exactly what areas of being ahead you are referring to, the Enlightenment beginning in Europe approx 60 years before modern America was founded. It is quite dichotomous as the USA can be prudish with sex but also conversely produces most of the worlds pornography. | |
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Yeah, but the whole nude (i.e.: spiritually pure, innocent sexuality ) thing was really lost until the RHCP did it:
RosesRred said:
Lovesexy was the second nailStraight men were falling like a heavy hailstorm..no return. I remember being on the school bus and teenagers were back of the bus just dogging out Prince and the album cover. I just kept hearing them saying they wouldn't be caught buying that x%$# due to him being naked on the cover and we are not going to talk about that pose. If teenagers were thinking that you can just imagine what grown men were thinking. I'm a female and went to purchase it, I placed the front cover down.I remember flipping the cover inside out after purchasing it. I too was embarrased. People weren't feeling him or relating to him.. you tend to run the other direction when you can't comprehend a subject.
It was a very good CD..I couldn't stop listening to Lovesexy.. and I enjoyed the Concert too. wow the memories We all learn from our mistakes..I'm sure like all of us, Prince also says "What was I thinking?!"
[Edited 2/14/16 2:10am] [Edited 2/14/16 2:11am] | |
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"I love you, but I don't trust you anymore." Right?! :hah: eyewishuheaven said: For me, Emancipation. Up 'til that point, I carried my purple kool-aid around in a thermos and convinced myself that everything (yes, even the Graffiti Bridge movie) was capital-g Great. | |
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Yes and add that he lost the outside mirrored 'competition' he had in the proteges:the Time Vanity 6 Sheila E etc The people in his camp we dedicated to his vision and reflection. His band reflect his music
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It was pretty badass databank said:
I remember thinking at the time the lollipop stunt was pretty awesome. Like OK I'll be here but I ain't gonna sing that shit anymore today than I did 10 years ago, and when Quincy gives him the mike and he gives the lollipop in return... that's priceless People who say he should have sang on the original or that he should have sang on the 95 version make me feel like all those conformists who told me why can't u be like everyone else when I was in secondary and hi' skool. No offence meant to anyone, just let a freak be a freak, we don't have to all do the same things. | |
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Spanish director Pedro Almodovar seemed to appreciate the LoveSexy cover so much that he included the poster in the bedroom of one of his sexy as fuck straight male protagonists in LiveFlesh. jayspud said: databank said:
Thing that always puzzled me is that the US has always been ahead of Europe on so many things and at the same time is so late by comparison to us when it comes to bigotry and superstition. For example the whole creationism vs. evolution in school thing is unthinkeable in Europe. It's very strange to me. I have to say the cover wasn't an issue in the UK, I had both posters in A1 (3ft) size on my wall as a fourteen year old. I'm not sure exactly what areas of being ahead you are referring to, the Enlightenment beginning in Europe approx 60 years before modern America was founded. It is quite dichotomous as the USA can be prudish with sex but also conversely produces most of the worlds pornography. | |
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The decline started after Lovesexy, before Batman reared its ugly head, Prince would have cut an album that would have sounded like Graffiti Bridge's better bits and some 1988 tracks. Such and album would have had songs like "Rave un2 the Joy fantastic without the silly talking bits in middle, Cookie Jar, Eternity, Fuchsia Light, People Without, Grand Progression, and GB tracks like Question of U, Soul Psychodelicide (Longer version of JIR). Possibly not as good as Lovesexy but close. But he was close to being broke and Batman required a rewrite and the promise of easy cash. . Also he may have thought songs like Soul Psychodelicide may have not sold to the teeny bopper chart soldiers and new a quick uptick with Batman would help. But what did he do, took a few decent tracks like Electric Chair and Scandalous and then added some bad made for movie stuff like Lemon Crush, Trust and Vicki Waiting. The type of music that would never make it on to an earlier album. Not only is Batman is bad album, it seems rushed and many tracks are barely there compared to the elaborate masterpieces of before. . He never really completely fell off, he still had good and great albums, but the period from Emancipation to NEWS was a time of very poor quality and rushed releases. Some albums and songs were listenable, but nothing would come close to showcasing his genius. Of all his albums, I never listen to Emancipation, Rave, Newpowersoul, Rainbow Children, One Nite alone or NEWS at all now (Crystal Ball is much better but 99% of it dates from before 1995 and does not count). . Musicology was more focused but still boring, his recent period is okay to good with several really good albums from 3121 to Phase 2 and the rest are at least decent except Indigo nights. . My hypothesis and summarisis of his career . 1975 - 1979 Learning his craft and becoming proficient - 7/10 1980 - 1982 First period of brilliance - shocking and showcasing his raw talent - Creative Peak - 9/10 1983 - 1985 Second period of brilliance - mastering crowd pleasing Pop, Dance, Rock and soul - Commercial peak - 9/10 1986 - 1988 Third period of brilliance - Making deep and experimental music that is very funky, pop sounding, but also brighter and more introspective, basically his Artistic peak. -10/10 1989 - 1990 Fall off period of trend chasing, catching a wave and riding on his laurels. Self indulgence and overproduction creeps in. - 3/10 1991 - 1992 The Second wind, pleasing and confident music, but not very original, merely chasing trends of hip hop, dance, new jack swing and dancey pop, but with a Prince punch, stillserious trend chasing - 7/10 1993 - 1995 As above but less successful, turning strange with name changes and periods of moody brilliance, culminates with an incredible album - The Gold Experience (Although it was written 1993/94). In a way this is another great period for Prince. - 8/10 1996 - 1997 Beginning of decline, much inferior product, barely there music, overload-en sets of mixed quality, flashes of brilliance, but a decline.- 5/10 1998 - 2001 The nadir of his music, ranges from bad sex jams to boring commercial sellouts (Rave) and then a 180 with the hate filled TRC album. Too experimental and lots of crappy music. - 1/10 2002 - 2004 The long decline continues, NPGMC period of much music and no quality control, releasing what he puts out and 6 substandard albums and live albums. His most forgettable music and it ends with a very focused and disciplined album - but now ultimately boring.- 2/10 2005 - 2008 Coming back period, Prince starts opening up to mainstream, releases some decent albums and songs. Is funky again, plays it safe, the elder statesmen of funk. A great improvement, but still offering nothing new. Indigo nights and book a huge back step with vanity and self indulgence. - 6/10 2009 - 2012 Prince is Prince again, new and daring music, more prolific again, dating women and making songs that show flashes of 80s brilliance (Futuresoulsong, Laydown, Colonised mind) and he is in the public eye. - 7/10 2013 - now Prince as the icon, playing rock n roll and funk, becoming very prolific with his music, looking back and touring, musical entities, himself, NPG, 3rd eye girl, influencing new artists like Andy Allo, Judith Hill - very much the Renaissance of Prince. - 8/10 [Edited 2/14/16 1:23am] Got some kind of love for you, and I don't even know your name | |
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Really could care less about commercial chart success, but the days when Prince was more concerned with weaving a tight album filled with a variety of goodies which appealed to such a variety of tastes that there was something for everyone.
Most of my favorite Prince albums contained songs that could never get radio play; sometimes I believe Prince includes explicit lyrics or single or double entendres just because he knows songs would not get heavy radio play.
The album "Come" was a is a perfect example of his return to form. But clearly not an album of radio friendly hits. | |
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luvsexy4all said: why is everyone so obsessed with him reaching a wider audience than "us"??? dontcha like being in the know... That was part of the fun of being a Prince/Artist fan in the mid-90s: you had to track down his music, go look for it. We heared songs like Days of Wild and Now on radio shows and bootlegs before they were out. It was fun, but it also took away the excitement of hearing a new album. There was nothing new about The Gold Experience when it came out. Same with that HitnRun stuff. I've already heared half of Phase 2 and I'm unimpressed, so I'm not rushing out to buy it, especially with the way he's releasing it. | |
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but that doesnt have anything to do with a "fall".....thats just him keeping up with distribution and trying new ways | |
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It's a "fall" in the sense that a new Prince album used to be an event, something everybody who was anybody in pop music was looking out for. Those days are gone. I know album sales go down and all that, but a new Springsteen or Dylan album is still something that catches the eyes and ears of the rock world. No one gives a damn about HitnRun, not even Prince. | |
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I agree with a Dylan album , but springsteen no way. | |
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"you had to track down his music, go look for it. We heard songs like "Days Of Wild" and "Now" on radio shows and bootlegs before they were out. It was fun, but it also took away the excitement of hearing a new album. There was nothing new about The Gold Experience when it came out."...........................Well said. Those were the days when P kinda went back to being underground again. I remember being psyched searching for "The Undertaker" video and audio when it was mentioned in the guitar magazines back then. The same with "Exodus". Those were fun days...I used to love the (KCR radio?) 3 or 4 hour radio specials on P back then too. Went thru a LOT of cassettes back then. | |
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A rant about the cursing/swearing trend of the early mid 1990s.
Got some kind of love for you, and I don't even know your name | |
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^And of course it entered the film world as well. Pulp Fiction was the biggest film of the 90s (maybe not in terms of $$, but in terms of cultural impact) and the motherfuckers and niggers were all over that movie. Oh yeah. Gangsta culture entered mainstream culture in that decade. Can't really blame Prince for being influenced by that. Rap was becoming more influential and explicit than he was! What do U do? If you can't beat them, join them... | |
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Exactly, the swearing ahd been in gangsta rap at least 1986/87 with Ice T and Boogie Down Productions, NWA, 2live crew and 2 short. . The trend got played out, when even Michael Jackson sang "Stop fucking with me" in Scream. Of course Michael apologised and new versions of the song appeared without. The word was only said once and buried in the 3rd repeat of the chorus on the 3rd refrain, the rest of the time it was "Just stop messin with me". . I agree a lot of mid 1990s movies I can't even watch through cringing at all the looped in swearing, when Eddie Murphy did it back in 1983/84 it was funny, but by 1992 it was lame and Samuel L Jackson pretty much owes his career to the number of motherfuckers said in Pulp Fiction. Got some kind of love for you, and I don't even know your name | |
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[Edited 2/14/16 18:38pm] Got some kind of love for you, and I don't even know your name | |
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4 someone who was harping about RANKING albums... u sure know how to RANK is personal life...
wut about the loss of his child... 1/10 i'd say?... | |
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1978: For You (8) Prince 4Ever. | |
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4 some who starts a lot of "Whats the worst" type thread, you sure know how to troll! . I love writing constructive and informed posts about his career, just to have haters and trolls like you wreck them and tear them down. - Grow up and go back to hiding under bridges and clubbing passers by, isn't that what trolls do? [Edited 2/15/16 2:19am] Got some kind of love for you, and I don't even know your name | |
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"The Fall" seems too strong word to describe his gradual downward trend (to say nothing of the Judeo-Christian associations). . For me, I think his recording/pro career can be broken down into four VERY large stages, both in terms of his artistic output and in terms of his commercial appeal: 1) 1976 to 1981: Exciting, rising star, learning his craft 2) 1982 to 1987: Commercial and Artistic Peak 3) 1988 to 1997: Still commercially strong, but large loss of artistic achievement 4) 1998 to now: Gone from mainstream culture (brief 'comeback' in 2004), too idiosyncratic for casual fans to follow . There's nothing at all unusual or disappointing about this sort of career-curve -- if anything, he's done way better than most famous artists. That long stretch of commercial impact from around 1982 through 1997 is 15 years, way more than most people. And in that 15 years, he released something like 15 albums (including 2 doubles, 1 triple). So, kudos to him. . The only disappointment to me when looking at his mainstream impact is that, in "Stage 3" (as I've outlined above), Prince never had another BIG commercial moment that coincided with artistic greatness. Diamonds & Pearls was a huge seller, and I like it, but it's hardly one of his greater artistic reaches. The main problem there, of course, is that he was chasing trends in Stage 3, which he'd never done before. It's hard to be artistically valid when you're doing that. . It's probably a combination of the emergence of hip-hop into mainstream culture (late 80s), Paisley Park itself (cutting him off from the everyday 'street' culture he should have been plugged into), and the severing of band-members (1986) and management (1988) that sort-of left him vulnerable at a time when he was just starting to lose inspiration a bit. Tying into that second point, I also suspect that the cost of Paisley Park, compounded by the commercial 'failure' of Lovesexy, is what led Prince to jump on the Batman soundtrack, which was really his first inessential release (since his debut). | |
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yes because discussing his albums not as strong as the 80's or compilating a list is 2 hars 4 the fans here... prince has never made a bad album.
yet u read the front page:
another self destructive single when did the fall begin cook jugg phase 3 confirmed prince twitter ama
... yet u say im the troll
wait let me guess.... do i get a 10/10? [Edited 2/15/16 7:52am] | |
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What I meant that when it comes to media, technology and lifestyle/social changes, in the 20th century the US were often (not always but often) a few years ahead of Europe. And artistically it's been an amazing century for the US as well. I remember for example up until the early 90's, except in UK (the only country with Japan that could rival the US), european music scenes were always two trains late. Of course there were exceptions (Kraftwerk is the most obvious example), but they were exceptions. Feminism was also HUGE in the US for example. And yeah a lot of the free love movement and porn industry came from the US as well. On the other hand when it comes to many other aspects of sex and religion, the US is still stuck in the 19th century. Debates such as should we ban Harry Potter from school libraries or should we put crationism on an equal level with evolution in schools are unthinkeable in Europe. A COMPREHENSIVE PRINCE DISCOGRAPHY (work in progress ^^): https://sites.google.com/...scography/ | |
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databank said:
What I meant that when it comes to media, technology and lifestyle/social changes, in the 20th century the US were often (not always but often) a few years ahead of Europe. And artistically it's been an amazing century for the US as well. I remember for example up until the early 90's, except in UK (the only country with Japan that could rival the US), european music scenes were always two trains late. Of course there were exceptions (Kraftwerk is the most obvious example), but they were exceptions. Feminism was also HUGE in the US for example. And yeah a lot of the free love movement and porn industry came from the US as well. On the other hand when it comes to many other aspects of sex and religion, the US is still stuck in the 19th century. Debates such as should we ban Harry Potter from school libraries or should we put crationism on an equal level with evolution in schools are unthinkeable in Europe. Not to get too far astray, but the issue is that although social values have liberalized to a great extent in the U.S. (especially during the periods you mentioned) the groups and organizations who oppose such liberalization tend to have a lot of money and organized power. And they tend to direct their ire at works of art or public expression. They tend to make the country seem a lot more puritanical than it truly is. But there's also a disgusting strand of homophobia that we still struggle with. That sunk the Lovesexy cover in 1988. "Drop that stereo before I blow your Goddamn nuts off, asshole!"
-Eugene Tackleberry | |
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Yes a strange mix of forward and backward thinking people over there in the US. [Edited 2/16/16 0:28am] | |
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Tell me about it... "Music gives a soul to the universe, wings to the mind, flight to the imagination and life to everything." --Plato
https://youtu.be/CVwv9LZMah0 | |
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that is how the world is, There was some kind of study that showed in Italy men prefered more smaller breasts, in America men in general prefered bigger breasts... | |
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RosesRred said:
Lovesexy was the second nailStraight men were falling like a heavy hailstorm..no return. I remember being on the school bus and teenagers were back of the bus just dogging out Prince and the album cover. I just kept hearing them saying they wouldn't be caught buying that x%$# due to him being naked on the cover and we are not going to talk about that pose. If teenagers were thinking that you can just imagine what grown men were thinking. I'm a female and went to purchase it, I placed the front cover down.I remember flipping the cover inside out after purchasing it. I too was embarrased. People weren't feeling him or relating to him.. you tend to run the other direction when you can't comprehend a subject. It was a very good CD..I couldn't stop listening to Lovesexy.. and I enjoyed the Concert too. wow the memories We all learn from our mistakes..I'm sure like all of us, Prince also says "What was I thinking?!"
Probably "mission accomplished and no regrets". There are too many esoteric concepts deliberately on display in that artwork for it to be otherwise. Many ancient cultures believed the pinnacle of enlightenment was achieved through unification of the genders, with transgendered people representing a higher state of being. The colors red and blue represented heaven and earth. Observing the album cover with those details in mind - Prince appears almost transgendered and the color is purple (red and blue). The albums message is well known in these forums. In my opinion this is a great cover because it's advertising its content. Would have worked as the cover to the shelved Camille album, too. Perhaps Lovesexy is the fully formed version of the Camille album, with Prince not hiding behind that voice. | |
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Prince's shout outs to those who exhist outside of hetero-normative cultures are usually more subtle, so he finally made it more explicit.
Art Official Cage: Konger og dronninger og alt der imellem
Le Grind: When I get naked, we'll see the real you... All the boys say "Yeah Yeah" (Yeah Yeah)
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Wow....after reading everyone's definition of "the fall", i have realized that I am the only fan ever who LOVES Emancipation (disc 2)...sadness How'm I gonna fill this empty room... | |
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