jaawwnn said:

Commercially - the day he didn't follow up Purple Rain with Purple Rain 2

Artistically - the day he moved into Paisley Park and closed himself off from the world.

He's still released enough grade A material over the years to keep me interested though. I'd like to hear him really pushing himself again, and possibly this current piano tour is exactly that.

[Edited 2/11/16 5:18am]

I agree with all but the commercial aspect of this post. Of course, with the release of ATWIAD after PR Prince did throw some people off a bit, but everyone was still superfans until Lovesexy was released. I agree with orgers that believe Lovesexy confused many people.

I believe the biggest turn was with the releases of Batman and Graffitti Bridge, but then comes D&A. Didn't that album slightly return him to his "bright light spotlight" stardom?

Discussing his artsitic fall though is easy. Pretty much what you said jaawwnn. I will add, and I know it's been said over and over, but he surrounds himself with 'YES' people.

We know how short his attention span is, added with his non-stop recording. He wants to release his work immediatlely then go on to another song/project. He's done that for years.

The problem now is that he can release them as fast as he wants to. My opinion is he needs to be patient and work on an album that he puts his soul in. An album with HIS essence, not the others that he collaborates with (not slurring anyone in his team...). That's what he needs to do and that's what'll fix him artistically.

He also needs to truly make amends to Warners as well...

Anyway, I'm done and off to listen to some of The Chocolate Invasion...release that P!

*****Why isn't my message divided into paragraphs? It was when I wrote it, and editing it... It's annoying!!

[Edited 2/11/16 21:04pm]

[Edited 2/11/16 21:05pm]

RosesRred said:

NorthC said:

Funny... In Holland the cover of Lovesexy wasn't an issue at all. Most people when they finally saw it were like : Is this it? That's what all the fuss is about?

LMAO!!

This the best thread ever!!

Sooo...let me get this straight...

Supposedly Prince jumped the shark after Lovesexy(1988), or when he built Paisley Park(the mid to late 1980's) or sometime after Emancipation(1996)?

I hate to tell you folks, but if my calculations are correct you have been following and/or waiting for a comeback, or at the very least, posting on a Prince-themed forum for about 20 years after his presumed demise.

What the hell are you waiting for ??! Maybe just maybe, after 20+ years of uninspired music, he might just pull Purple Rain 2 out of his ass?? (For the record, ATWIAD was the bravest record ever released...Prince told the world he would not make Purple Rain 2, nor wait 4 years to make his next record. That took balls AND it's an amazing album)

Sometimes, you guys really have your heads up your collective a-holes.

At the very least, give the guy the props he deserves - he IS the best live performer on the planet. He may not dunk anymore, but the ball still goes in, all net.

Oh, and your Crystal Ball t-shirt is in the mail.

NorthC said:

Funny... In Holland the cover of Lovesexy wasn't an issue at all. Most people when they finally saw it were like : Is this it? That's what all the fuss is about?

no issue in Europe (I live in Denmark)

The Americans are so narrow minded (some, maybe most of them), they are so very religious and yet scared of nudity, you can't fx see a nipple anywhere.. and yet there's murder and blood and violence everywhere in Hollywood and tv...


its rediculous, and a bit annoying imho...

Lovesexy - with Parade - are some of the best Prince LP-covers ever..

[Edited 2/12/16 6:52am]

I simply refuse to believe Prince has had a fall so to speak.

He has had albums that haven't worked as well as others, but even to this day he continues to surpise us with great albums.

Let's not forget that "The Most Beautiful Girl In The World" was a big hit for him in 1994, and the album the following year, The Gold Experience, which also features a version of that song, is also generally considered to be one of his better 1990s works.

Following on from that, Prince I think delivered quality albums in Musicology, 3121, Art Official Age and Plectrum Electrum throughout the 2000s. Albums such as The Rainbow Children and N.E.W.S. were not so much commercial successes, but musically, they stand proud in the overall Prince catalog as measures of his talent and genius.

In my honest opinion, his biggest issues have been quantity and accessability of his albums. For example, Emancipation could have probably been edited down to one album containing 12 songs and it would have been a killer album up there with the best of his works.

As far as accesability, some of his albums have been hard for a seasoned fan like myself to obtain legally, so a more casual fan pretty much has no chance of succeeding. The latest example of this is Hit N Run Phase 2. Great album.....but it seems CD copies are only just starting to emerge, months after the album was first released on Tidal.

purplemajesty23 said:

jaawwnn said:

Commercially - the day he didn't follow up Purple Rain with Purple Rain 2

Artistically - the day he moved into Paisley Park and closed himself off from the world.

He's still released enough grade A material over the years to keep me interested though. I'd like to hear him really pushing himself again, and possibly this current piano tour is exactly that.

[Edited 2/11/16 5:18am]

I agree with all but the commercial aspect of this post. Of course, with the release of ATWIAD after PR Prince did throw some people off a bit, but everyone was still superfans until Lovesexy was released. I agree with orgers that believe Lovesexy confused many people.

I believe the biggest turn was with the releases of Batman and Graffitti Bridge, but then comes D&A. Didn't that album slightly return him to his "bright light spotlight" stardom?

Discussing his artsitic fall though is easy. Pretty much what you said jaawwnn. I will add, and I know it's been said over and over, but he surrounds himself with 'YES' people.

We know how short his attention span is, added with his non-stop recording. He wants to release his work immediatlely then go on to another song/project. He's done that for years.

The problem now is that he can release them as fast as he wants to. My opinion is he needs to be patient and work on an album that he puts his soul in. An album with HIS essence, not the others that he collaborates with (not slurring anyone in his team...). That's what he needs to do and that's what'll fix him artistically.

He also needs to truly make amends to Warners as well...

Anyway, I'm done and off to listen to some of The Chocolate Invasion...release that P!

Well the original post was when did the fall begin, not when did it complete (not that I believe it did, but anyway). Commercially when he showed he wasn't going to follow the same path as other pop stars by honing and expanding on the same familiar sound that made him famous, and spending 2-3 years promoting each album to milk them for all they were worth (MJ Off the Wall - Thriller - Bad being the classic example) it showed he had other things on his mind than just sales.

He had big hit albums since Purple Rain of course but he could have had much bigger hit albums if he'd played the game. I'm glad he didn't.


What I think he should/could be doing in 2016 is a whole different story but that's for another thread...

[Edited 2/12/16 2:13am]

I don't think he fell, I think he, like everyone else, just has peaks and valleys.

The next Fall is scheduled for September 22, 2016.

purplethunder3121 said:

The next Fall is scheduled for September 22, 2016.

SoulAlive said:

NorthC said:

Funny... In Holland the cover of Lovesexy wasn't an issue at all. Most people when they finally saw it were like : Is this it? That's what all the fuss is about?

Things are much different here in America.Many heterosexual men were not gonna buy an album with a naked man on the cover

XNY said:

I hate to tell you folks, but if my calculations are correct you have been following and/or waiting for a comeback, or at the very least, posting on a Prince-themed forum for about 20 years after his presumed demise.

What the hell are you waiting for ??!

Remasters.

callimnate said:

eyewishuheaven said:

XNY said:

I hate to tell you folks, but if my calculations are correct you have been following and/or waiting for a comeback, or at the very least, posting on a Prince-themed forum for about 20 years after his presumed demise.

What the hell are you waiting for ??!

Remasters.

For over 20 years. Nice.

RosesRred said:

SoulAlive said:

Things are much different here in America.Many heterosexual men were not gonna buy an album with a naked man on the cover

Thing that always puzzled me is that the US has always been ahead of Europe on so many things and at the same time is so late by comparison to us when it comes to bigotry and superstition. For example the whole creationism vs. evolution in school thing is unthinkeable in Europe. It's very strange to me.

DFUNK said:

I simply refuse to believe Prince has had a fall so to speak.

He has had albums that haven't worked as well as others, but even to this day he continues to surpise us with great albums.

Let's not forget that "The Most Beautiful Girl In The World" was a big hit for him in 1994, and the album the following year, The Gold Experience, which also features a version of that song, is also generally considered to be one of his better 1990s works.

Following on from that, Prince I think delivered quality albums in Musicology, 3121, Art Official Age and Plectrum Electrum throughout the 2000s. Albums such as The Rainbow Children and N.E.W.S. were not so much commercial successes, but musically, they stand proud in the overall Prince catalog as measures of his talent and genius.

In my honest opinion, his biggest issues have been quantity and accessability of his albums. For example, Emancipation could have probably been edited down to one album containing 12 songs and it would have been a killer album up there with the best of his works.

As far as accesability, some of his albums have been hard for a seasoned fan like myself to obtain legally, so a more casual fan pretty much has no chance of succeeding. The latest example of this is Hit N Run Phase 2. Great album.....but it seems CD copies are only just starting to emerge, months after the album was first released on Tidal.

Maybe fall is not the best word.

But he was in superstar glory in the 80s hands down, some twist and turns, maybe not the best move here or there but he was still it.

I think there were some decisions that took him out of 'the glory' and so in a sense fell.

Even though his 80s superstar foundation would always after have him in some spotlight, I think he gave up his purple kingdom and 'style of his own' that lowered him.

Third nail...

He Let his...

Get in the way

RosesRred said:

Third nail...

He Let his...

Get in the way

LOL that was actually pretty good

RosesRred said:

Third nail...

He Let his...

Get in the way

I remember thinking at the time the lollipop stunt was pretty awesome. Like OK I'll be here but I ain't gonna sing that shit anymore today than I did 10 years ago, and when Quincy gives him the mike and he gives the lollipop in return... that's priceless

People who say he should have sang on the original or that he should have sang on the 95 version make me feel like all those conformists who told me why can't u be like everyone else when I was in secondary and hi' skool. No offence meant to anyone, just let a freak be a freak, we don't have to all do the same things.

databank said:

RosesRred said:

Third nail...

He Let his...

Get in the way

I remember thinking at the time the lollipop stunt was pretty awesome. Like OK I'll be here but I ain't gonna sing that shit anymore today than I did 10 years ago, and when Quincy gives him the mike and he gives the lollipop in return... that's priceless

People who say he should have sang on the original or that he should have sang on the 95 version make me feel like all those conformists who told me why can't u be like everyone else when I was in secondary and hi' skool. No offence meant to anyone, just let a freak be a freak, we don't have to all do the same things.

that piece was funny though

But yeah I don't know why he let them get him up there. At least go to the back. It was so silly.
I'm glad he never did the original WATW

It wasn't his thing, he gave a song, that was his thing

jaawwnn said:

Commercially - the day he didn't follow up Purple Rain with Purple Rain 2

Artistically - the day he moved into Paisley Park and closed himself off from the world.

He's still released enough grade A material over the years to keep me interested though. I'd like to hear him really pushing himself again, and possibly this current piano tour is exactly that.

[Edited 2/11/16 5:18am]

Completely agree!

Prince never 'fell'.

Not in any real sense, like Sly, Elvis or 100 other legends, due to drug abuse.

He still has most/ all the musical chops he had back in the 80s and has learned a couple new ones since then.

His vocal skills remain essentially undiminished.

Yes, he's slowly lost the manic energy and unique creative spark he had in his 20s and much of his 30s, but that's an understandable product of ageing. It's unrealistic and childish to expect someone to stay the same as they were when they were 25.

Where do you go after a creative run like he had from 1982-88? Stevie Wonder had a similar run in the '70s, but he has released little of similar quality since. David Bowie similarly, but then he was always a more collaborative artist and more open to new styles than Prince, so Bowie had a more distinguished later career than Wonder.

An awesome creative run of more than five, six or seven years is pretty unheard of and would be inhuman. Prince's personality has always been to do his own thing right or wrong and the 80s was really the only era when his outlook and that of wider western culture really overlapped. Beyond that era, he seems not to fit in.

Prince's only real 'problems' imo are that a) he has released arguably too much music through his career (not a problem for me though) and b) that he has never really let go of the 'greatest hits' formula for his concerts, (One Nite Alone Tour excepted), and that has been stale for me for at least the last 10 years. Play more of the newer material and rarities from the deeper catalogue.

For me, he is the Sly Stone or Little Richard who didn't self-destruct/ fade away, the Jimi Hendrix who lived and retained most of his talent for another 30 years (at least).

We should be grateful he ain't some damaged shell of himself, with a shot voice and a band that's partly there to fill in the cracks and cover up his mistakes.

Sermon ends.

And damn this site's line-spacing system to all hell

[Edited 2/12/16 11:48am]

Fall begins on Sept. 22nd.

Or is this another "Prince is over" thread?

jaawwnn said:

Commercially - the day he didn't follow up Purple Rain with Purple Rain 2

Artistically - the day he moved into Paisley Park and closed himself off from the world.

He's still released enough grade A material over the years to keep me interested though. I'd like to hear him really pushing himself again, and possibly this current piano tour is exactly that.

[Edited 2/11/16 5:18am]

To add to the "artistically" part, another result of his isolation was the removal of the talented, but also musically and intellectualy sophisticated people in his life. Think about it, the main reason his 80's work was so broad and innovative was that along with his talent, he had other people showing and teaching him new things which he intergrated into the music. You could say that:

-Wendy and Lisa introduced him to psychedelic rock

-Eric Leeds introduced him to Jazz

-Sheila E. introduced him to Latin music

-Hell, even Susannah (unlike his later 18 year old "muses") was highly intellegent and taught him artistry, etc.

With the introduction of the NPG in the early 90's, all of said people were out of his life. I feel that while the NPG were very talented musicians, they lacked the personality of his previous peers and weren't gonna challenge him or teach him things. Hell, they probably were interesting people, but at that point Prince pretty much wasn't listening to any advice and expected his band to play, and not be heard. And when you reach that point as an artist when you feel you know everything and believe in your own hype, you begin to falter. With no one there to push him to new horizons, his music stagnated and he began, IMO, to repeat himself and become a follower and not a trend-setter.

[Edited 2/12/16 14:17pm]

[Edited 2/12/16 14:21pm]

NorthC said:

why is everyone so obsessed with him reaching a wider audience than "us"??? dontcha like being in the know...

He's fallen (sometimes hard) but gotten back up every time.