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Reply #60 posted 02/13/16 1:12pm

jayspud

databank said:



RosesRred said:


SoulAlive said:
Things are much different here in America.Many heterosexual men were not gonna buy an album with a naked man on the cover sad

yeahthat

Thing that always puzzled me is that the US has always been ahead of Europe on so many things and at the same time is so late by comparison to us when it comes to bigotry and superstition. For example the whole creationism vs. evolution in school thing is unthinkeable in Europe. It's very strange to me.



I have to say the cover wasn't an issue in the UK, I had both posters in A1 (3ft) size on my wall as a fourteen year old. I'm not sure exactly what areas of being ahead you are referring to, the Enlightenment beginning in Europe approx 60 years before modern America was founded. It is quite dichotomous as the USA can be prudish with sex but also conversely produces most of the worlds pornography.
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Reply #61 posted 02/13/16 5:00pm

appleseed

Yeah, but the whole nude (i.e.: spiritually pure, innocent sexuality ) thing was really lost until the RHCP did it:



RosesRred said:



appleseed said:


Back in the day, "Diamonds and Pearls" was the last time my buddies and I saw a line out the door of a rekka sto for a Prince album. But the fall might have started after "Lovesexy;" "Lovesexy" was the last time I saw a line out the door — and around the block — the day of release. A shop in downtown San Francisco actually repeatedly ran out of "Parade" on at least two occasions the first week of release.



Buddy and I actually bought a CD each and the cassette so we could play "DAP" in the car as he dropped me off from work. Despite Cream, Willing and Able, Gett Off, Money Don't Matter 2 Night, we thought the album was his biggest misfire to date. We both realized something was amiss after the album started with Thunder (not a bad song, just not a great opener).



The 90s and 00s were brutal now that I look back at them:


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prince_(musician)#Discography




Lovesexy was the second nail


Straight men were falling like a heavy hailstorm..no return.


I remember being on the school bus and teenagers were back of the bus


just dogging out Prince and the album cover. I just kept hearing them


saying they wouldn't be caught buying that x%$# due to him being naked


on the cover and we are not going to talk about that pose. confused


If teenagers were thinking that you can just imagine what grown men


were thinking.


I'm a female and went to purchase it, I placed the front cover down.I remember


flipping the cover inside out after purchasing it.


I too was embarrased. People weren't feeling him or relating to him..


you tend to run the other direction when you can't comprehend a subject.



It was a very good CD..I couldn't stop listening to Lovesexy..


and I enjoyed the Concert too. wow the memories fatalbert


We all learn from our mistakes..I'm sure like all of us, Prince also says


"What was I thinking?!"





[Edited 2/14/16 2:10am]
[Edited 2/14/16 2:11am]
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Reply #62 posted 02/13/16 5:03pm

appleseed

"I love you, but I don't trust you anymore." Right?! :hah:

eyewishuheaven said:

For me, Emancipation. Up 'til that point, I carried my purple kool-aid around in a thermos and convinced myself that everything (yes, even the Graffiti Bridge movie) was capital-g Great.

When he announced that he had a 3-hour album coming up that he was "born to make", I was beyond excited. And then I heard it. We Gets Up? Get Yo Groove On? Emale? You were born to make this shit? And that was the moment that I unscrewed the lid from that thermos and dumped that kool-aid down the sink.

Since then, my feelings about Prince can be summed up in his own words: "I love you, but I don't trust you anymore."

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Reply #63 posted 02/13/16 5:09pm

OldFriends4Sal
e

PurpleMedley122 said:

jaawwnn said:

Commercially - the day he didn't follow up Purple Rain with Purple Rain 2

Artistically - the day he moved into Paisley Park and closed himself off from the world.

He's still released enough grade A material over the years to keep me interested though. I'd like to hear him really pushing himself again, and possibly this current piano tour is exactly that.


[Edited 2/11/16 5:18am]

To add to the "artistically" part, another result of his isolation was the removal of the talented, but also musically and intellectualy sophisticated people in his life. Think about it, the main reason his 80's work was so broad and innovative was that along with his talent, he had other people showing and teaching him new things which he intergrated into the music. You could say that:

-Wendy and Lisa introduced him to psychedelic rock

-Eric Leeds introduced him to Jazz

-Sheila E. introduced him to Latin music

-Hell, even Susannah (unlike his later 18 year old "muses") was highly intellegent and taught him artistry, etc.

With the introduction of the NPG in the early 90's, all of said people were out of his life. I feel that while the NPG were very talented musicians, they lacked the personality of his previous peers and weren't gonna challenge him or teach him things. Hell, they probably were interesting people, but at that point Prince pretty much wasn't listening to any advice and expected his band to play, and not be heard. And when you reach that point as an artist when you feel you know everything and believe in your own hype, you begin to falter. With no one there to push him to new horizons, his music stagnated and he began, IMO, to repeat himself and become a follower and not a trend-setter.

[Edited 2/12/16 14:17pm]

[Edited 2/12/16 14:21pm]

Yes and add that he lost the outside mirrored 'competition' he had in the proteges:the Time Vanity 6 Sheila E etc

The people in his camp we dedicated to his vision and reflection. His band reflect his music
He said in 1998 the back then he had a 'Community' and that says a lot
Add Susan Rogers leaving in 1987 too, that seemed to have been a very intimate relation as well

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Reply #64 posted 02/13/16 5:16pm

appleseed

It was pretty badass

databank said:



RosesRred said:


Third nail...



He Let his...















Get in the way


















I remember thinking at the time the lollipop stunt was pretty awesome. Like OK I'll be here but I ain't gonna sing that shit anymore today than I did 10 years ago, and when Quincy gives him the mike and he gives the lollipop in return... that's priceless lol lol lol


People who say he should have sang on the original or that he should have sang on the 95 version make me feel like all those conformists who told me why can't u be like everyone else when I was in secondary and hi' skool. No offence meant to anyone, just let a freak be a freak, we don't have to all do the same things.

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Reply #65 posted 02/13/16 5:21pm

appleseed

Spanish director Pedro Almodovar seemed to appreciate the LoveSexy cover so much that he included the poster in the bedroom of one of his sexy as fuck straight male protagonists in LiveFlesh.


jayspud said:

databank said:



RosesRred said:


SoulAlive said:
Things are much different here in America.Many heterosexual men were not gonna buy an album with a naked man on the cover sad

yeahthat

Thing that always puzzled me is that the US has always been ahead of Europe on so many things and at the same time is so late by comparison to us when it comes to bigotry and superstition. For example the whole creationism vs. evolution in school thing is unthinkeable in Europe. It's very strange to me.



I have to say the cover wasn't an issue in the UK, I had both posters in A1 (3ft) size on my wall as a fourteen year old. I'm not sure exactly what areas of being ahead you are referring to, the Enlightenment beginning in Europe approx 60 years before modern America was founded. It is quite dichotomous as the USA can be prudish with sex but also conversely produces most of the worlds pornography.
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Reply #66 posted 02/14/16 1:18am

Adorecream

The decline started after Lovesexy, before Batman reared its ugly head, Prince would have cut an album that would have sounded like Graffiti Bridge's better bits and some 1988 tracks.

Such and album would have had songs like "Rave un2 the Joy fantastic without the silly talking bits in middle, Cookie Jar, Eternity, Fuchsia Light, People Without, Grand Progression, and GB tracks like Question of U, Soul Psychodelicide (Longer version of JIR). Possibly not as good as Lovesexy but close. But he was close to being broke and Batman required a rewrite and the promise of easy cash.

.

Also he may have thought songs like Soul Psychodelicide may have not sold to the teeny bopper chart soldiers and new a quick uptick with Batman would help. But what did he do, took a few decent tracks like Electric Chair and Scandalous and then added some bad made for movie stuff like Lemon Crush, Trust and Vicki Waiting. The type of music that would never make it on to an earlier album. Not only is Batman is bad album, it seems rushed and many tracks are barely there compared to the elaborate masterpieces of before.

.

He never really completely fell off, he still had good and great albums, but the period from Emancipation to NEWS was a time of very poor quality and rushed releases. Some albums and songs were listenable, but nothing would come close to showcasing his genius. Of all his albums, I never listen to Emancipation, Rave, Newpowersoul, Rainbow Children, One Nite alone or NEWS at all now (Crystal Ball is much better but 99% of it dates from before 1995 and does not count).

.

Musicology was more focused but still boring, his recent period is okay to good with several really good albums from 3121 to Phase 2 and the rest are at least decent except Indigo nights.

.

My hypothesis and summarisis of his career

.

1975 - 1979 Learning his craft and becoming proficient - 7/10

1980 - 1982 First period of brilliance - shocking and showcasing his raw talent - Creative Peak - 9/10

1983 - 1985 Second period of brilliance - mastering crowd pleasing Pop, Dance, Rock and soul - Commercial peak - 9/10

1986 - 1988 Third period of brilliance - Making deep and experimental music that is very funky, pop sounding, but also brighter and more introspective, basically his Artistic peak. -10/10

1989 - 1990 Fall off period of trend chasing, catching a wave and riding on his laurels. Self indulgence and overproduction creeps in. - 3/10

1991 - 1992 The Second wind, pleasing and confident music, but not very original, merely chasing trends of hip hop, dance, new jack swing and dancey pop, but with a Prince punch, stillserious trend chasing - 7/10

1993 - 1995 As above but less successful, turning strange with name changes and periods of moody brilliance, culminates with an incredible album - The Gold Experience (Although it was written 1993/94). In a way this is another great period for Prince. - 8/10

1996 - 1997 Beginning of decline, much inferior product, barely there music, overload-en sets of mixed quality, flashes of brilliance, but a decline.- 5/10

1998 - 2001 The nadir of his music, ranges from bad sex jams to boring commercial sellouts (Rave) and then a 180 with the hate filled TRC album. Too experimental and lots of crappy music. - 1/10

2002 - 2004 The long decline continues, NPGMC period of much music and no quality control, releasing what he puts out and 6 substandard albums and live albums. His most forgettable music and it ends with a very focused and disciplined album - but now ultimately boring.- 2/10

2005 - 2008 Coming back period, Prince starts opening up to mainstream, releases some decent albums and songs. Is funky again, plays it safe, the elder statesmen of funk. A great improvement, but still offering nothing new. Indigo nights and book a huge back step with vanity and self indulgence. - 6/10

2009 - 2012 Prince is Prince again, new and daring music, more prolific again, dating women and making songs that show flashes of 80s brilliance (Futuresoulsong, Laydown, Colonised mind) and he is in the public eye. - 7/10

2013 - now Prince as the icon, playing rock n roll and funk, becoming very prolific with his music, looking back and touring, musical entities, himself, NPG, 3rd eye girl, influencing new artists like Andy Allo, Judith Hill - very much the Renaissance of Prince. - 8/10

[Edited 2/14/16 1:23am]

Got some kind of love for you, and I don't even know your name
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Reply #67 posted 02/14/16 2:25am

appleseed

Really could care less about commercial chart success, but the days when Prince was more concerned with weaving a tight album filled with a variety of goodies which appealed to such a variety of tastes that there was something for everyone.

Most of my favorite Prince albums contained songs that could never get radio play; sometimes I believe Prince includes explicit lyrics or single or double entendres just because he knows songs would not get heavy radio play.

The album "Come" was a is a perfect example of his return to form. But clearly not an album of radio friendly hits.

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Reply #68 posted 02/14/16 3:13am

NorthC

luvsexy4all said:

why is everyone so obsessed with him reaching a wider audience than "us"??? dontcha like being in the know...


That was part of the fun of being a Prince/Artist fan in the mid-90s: you had to track down his music, go look for it. We heared songs like Days of Wild and Now on radio shows and bootlegs before they were out. It was fun, but it also took away the excitement of hearing a new album. There was nothing new about The Gold Experience when it came out. Same with that HitnRun stuff. I've already heared half of Phase 2 and I'm unimpressed, so I'm not rushing out to buy it, especially with the way he's releasing it.
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Reply #69 posted 02/14/16 7:52am

luvsexy4all

NorthC said:

luvsexy4all said:

why is everyone so obsessed with him reaching a wider audience than "us"??? dontcha like being in the know...

That was part of the fun of being a Prince/Artist fan in the mid-90s: you had to track down his music, go look for it. We heared songs like Days of Wild and Now on radio shows and bootlegs before they were out. It was fun, but it also took away the excitement of hearing a new album. There was nothing new about The Gold Experience when it came out. Same with that HitnRun stuff. I've already heared half of Phase 2 and I'm unimpressed, so I'm not rushing out to buy it, especially with the way he's releasing it.

but that doesnt have anything to do with a "fall".....thats just him keeping up with distribution and trying new ways

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Reply #70 posted 02/14/16 8:42am

NorthC

It's a "fall" in the sense that a new Prince album used to be an event, something everybody who was anybody in pop music was looking out for. Those days are gone. I know album sales go down and all that, but a new Springsteen or Dylan album is still something that catches the eyes and ears of the rock world. No one gives a damn about HitnRun, not even Prince.
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Reply #71 posted 02/14/16 8:48am

Guitarhero

NorthC said:

It's a "fall" in the sense that a new Prince album used to be an event, something everybody who was anybody in pop music was looking out for. Those days are gone. I know album sales go down and all that, but a new Springsteen or Dylan album is still something that catches the eyes and ears of the rock world. No one gives a damn about HitnRun, not even Prince.

I agree with a Dylan album , but springsteen no way.

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Reply #72 posted 02/14/16 9:37am

SPYZFAN1

"you had to track down his music, go look for it. We heard songs like "Days Of Wild" and "Now" on radio shows and bootlegs before they were out. It was fun, but it also took away the excitement of hearing a new album. There was nothing new about The Gold Experience when it came out."...........................Well said. Those were the days when P kinda went back to being underground again. I remember being psyched searching for "The Undertaker" video and audio when it was mentioned in the guitar magazines back then. The same with "Exodus". Those were fun days...I used to love the (KCR radio?) 3 or 4 hour radio specials on P back then too. Went thru a LOT of cassettes back then.

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Reply #73 posted 02/14/16 1:24pm

Adorecream

A rant about the cursing/swearing trend of the early mid 1990s.

appleseed said:

Yeah, but the whole nude (i.e.: spiritually pure, innocent sexuality ) thing was really lost until the RHCP did it: [img:$uid]http://40.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m6oadxhADd1rwk9lho6_540.jpg[/img:$uid] RosesRred said:

In a way those guys above are responsible for a lot of the early 1990s trend chasing. I always admired them before 1991's Blood sugar sex magik, which is a good album, but riddles with graphic explicit lyrics and the use of the words fuck and motherfucker every 2nd word.

.

The Chilis were copying rap that used swearwords and in the 1991/92 to 1995, alot of pop and rock artists started swearing heavily in their albums so the Parental advisory stickers appeared on nearly everything. Albums like Nevermind by Nirvana, 10 by Pearl Jam, Cypress Hill, Prince from 1992 to 1995 (Motherfucker is said about 10 times in Pussy Control, Sexy Motherfucker etc,.

.

I had no problem with this back then, and no doubt many parents were concerned by 1993 when Snoop Doggs Doggystyle and Rage against the machine released albums where the word Fuck and its variants was said over 300 times!. Prince never went that far, but a lot of other artists took the foul language out of rap and into the mainstream. Even Madonna uses it on Erotica "You fucked it up" and "I give you love, I'll hit u like a truck, I'll give you love, I'll teach you how to ....." in the song, but the SEX book actually has the word fuck.

.

There was this period in the first half of the 1990s, where there was this trend chasing obsession with inserting the word fuck in as many places as possible in a song - Rage against the machine comes to mind and even Alanis Morissettes most well known lyric off her 1995 album is "Are you thinking of me when you fuck her". The RHCP album I thought was revolutionary in 1992, now I no longer listen to as it just sounds juvenile. Some songs like Sir Psychosexy are amongst the most filthy and explicit I have ever heard and I remember having the album taken off me several times as a teen because I found the swearing and graphic sex so funny, I kept singing it out loud like most of the kids in my class.The album was hugely popular given the boost from the success of Under the Bridge in early 1992 and kept pumping out hits until late 1993. The follow up One Hot minute was a poorly contrived flop (Although the two best songs Aeroplane and My Friends, also include heavy cursing), after 1999 with Califonication and By the Way the chilis were back, but from Stadium onwards, they have fallen off with music that sounds like their 80s greatness and the book about Anthony where he sums up his drug addled ways, put me off him in a big way.

.

I mean the swearing craze got out of hand, remember the version of Mony Mony sung around 1990 - 1996 that had the opening "Black mfer, get laid get fked" and the song Alice, Alice who the fuck is Alice". Swearing continued after 1995/96 but it is mainly limited to gangsta and thug rap music along with a few extreme metal and rock songs, the use of the word in pop and dance music is no longer that popular unless the cursing is part of the actual lyrical bridge.

.

Prince gave up the swearing in 1998, and the last album typically to have it is 1998s Newpowersoul mostly taped in 1997, some songs like a Dick and a Good Job from 1998 have it too, but after that with the JW stuff he gave it up. Prince swore occasionally in the early days, with songs like Sister, LPWM, but the few f words were part of the songs and did not dominate like they did on some songs after 1992 - Sexy MF, Come, Pussy Control and Days of Wild amongst a few others. Prince never really swore in a big way except on a few tracks and I think he just did it to chase trends, especially on the NPG albums where Sonny T swears like a trooper on songs like Count the days.

.

But yeah, the lets say motherfucker as many times as we can trend of 1992 to 1995 did not help his legacy at all along with many after artists and Anthony Motherfuckin Kletis or whatever his Baltoslavic name is.

Got some kind of love for you, and I don't even know your name
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Reply #74 posted 02/14/16 2:02pm

NorthC

^And of course it entered the film world as well. Pulp Fiction was the biggest film of the 90s (maybe not in terms of $$, but in terms of cultural impact) and the motherfuckers and niggers were all over that movie. Oh yeah. Gangsta culture entered mainstream culture in that decade. Can't really blame Prince for being influenced by that. Rap was becoming more influential and explicit than he was! What do U do? If you can't beat them, join them...
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Reply #75 posted 02/14/16 6:35pm

Adorecream

NorthC said:

^And of course it entered the film world as well. Pulp Fiction was the biggest film of the 90s (maybe not in terms of $$, but in terms of cultural impact) and the motherfuckers and niggers were all over that movie. Oh yeah. Gangsta culture entered mainstream culture in that decade. Can't really blame Prince for being influenced by that. Rap was becoming more influential and explicit than he was! What do U do? If you can't beat them, join them...

Exactly, the swearing ahd been in gangsta rap at least 1986/87 with Ice T and Boogie Down Productions, NWA, 2live crew and 2 short.

.

The trend got played out, when even Michael Jackson sang "Stop fucking with me" in Scream. Of course Michael apologised and new versions of the song appeared without. The word was only said once and buried in the 3rd repeat of the chorus on the 3rd refrain, the rest of the time it was "Just stop messin with me".

.

I agree a lot of mid 1990s movies I can't even watch through cringing at all the looped in swearing, when Eddie Murphy did it back in 1983/84 it was funny, but by 1992 it was lame and Samuel L Jackson pretty much owes his career to the number of motherfuckers said in Pulp Fiction.

Got some kind of love for you, and I don't even know your name
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Reply #76 posted 02/14/16 6:36pm

Adorecream

Adorecream said:

NorthC said:

^And of course it entered the film world as well. Pulp Fiction was the biggest film of the 90s (maybe not in terms of $$, but in terms of cultural impact) and the motherfuckers and niggers were all over that movie. Oh yeah. Gangsta culture entered mainstream culture in that decade. Can't really blame Prince for being influenced by that. Rap was becoming more influential and explicit than he was! What do U do? If you can't beat them, join them...

Exactly, the swearing ahd been in gangsta rap at least 1986/87 with Ice T and Boogie Down Productions, NWA, 2live crew and 2 short. Of course unlike the post 1992 rap, I consider 1980s gangsta rap some of the finest shit ever made. I never begrudge the swearing in this music as it expresses the anger and frustations of the rappers and their lyrics, gritty inner city drugs and guns, where swearing becomes a part of every day life, not in some chessy middle class made for a buck, pop soul or pop rap and dance track. In 1980s gangsta rap the swearing ads to the grittiness and rawness of the sound, NWA and anything with Ice Cube is a good example. As far as I am concerned that brother will always have a free pass along with Ice motherfucking T.

.

The trend got played out, when even Michael Jackson sang "Stop fucking with me" in Scream. Of course Michael apologised and new versions of the song appeared without. The word was only said once and buried in the 3rd repeat of the chorus on the 3rd refrain, the rest of the time it was "Just stop messin with me".

.

I agree a lot of mid 1990s movies I can't even watch through cringing at all the looped in swearing, when Eddie Murphy did it back in 1983/84 it was funny, but by 1992 it was lame and Samuel L Jackson pretty much owes his career to the number of motherfuckers said in Pulp Fiction.

[Edited 2/14/16 18:38pm]

Got some kind of love for you, and I don't even know your name
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Reply #77 posted 02/14/16 11:14pm

feeluupp

Adorecream said:

The decline started after Lovesexy, before Batman reared its ugly head, Prince would have cut an album that would have sounded like Graffiti Bridge's better bits and some 1988 tracks.

Such and album would have had songs like "Rave un2 the Joy fantastic without the silly talking bits in middle, Cookie Jar, Eternity, Fuchsia Light, People Without, Grand Progression, and GB tracks like Question of U, Soul Psychodelicide (Longer version of JIR). Possibly not as good as Lovesexy but close. But he was close to being broke and Batman required a rewrite and the promise of easy cash.

.

Also he may have thought songs like Soul Psychodelicide may have not sold to the teeny bopper chart soldiers and new a quick uptick with Batman would help. But what did he do, took a few decent tracks like Electric Chair and Scandalous and then added some bad made for movie stuff like Lemon Crush, Trust and Vicki Waiting. The type of music that would never make it on to an earlier album. Not only is Batman is bad album, it seems rushed and many tracks are barely there compared to the elaborate masterpieces of before.

.

He never really completely fell off, he still had good and great albums, but the period from Emancipation to NEWS was a time of very poor quality and rushed releases. Some albums and songs were listenable, but nothing would come close to showcasing his genius. Of all his albums, I never listen to Emancipation, Rave, Newpowersoul, Rainbow Children, One Nite alone or NEWS at all now (Crystal Ball is much better but 99% of it dates from before 1995 and does not count).

.

Musicology was more focused but still boring, his recent period is okay to good with several really good albums from 3121 to Phase 2 and the rest are at least decent except Indigo nights.

.

My hypothesis and summarisis of his career

.

1975 - 1979 Learning his craft and becoming proficient - 7/10

1980 - 1982 First period of brilliance - shocking and showcasing his raw talent - Creative Peak - 9/10

1983 - 1985 Second period of brilliance - mastering crowd pleasing Pop, Dance, Rock and soul - Commercial peak - 9/10

1986 - 1988 Third period of brilliance - Making deep and experimental music that is very funky, pop sounding, but also brighter and more introspective, basically his Artistic peak. -10/10

1989 - 1990 Fall off period of trend chasing, catching a wave and riding on his laurels. Self indulgence and overproduction creeps in. - 3/10

1991 - 1992 The Second wind, pleasing and confident music, but not very original, merely chasing trends of hip hop, dance, new jack swing and dancey pop, but with a Prince punch, stillserious trend chasing - 7/10

1993 - 1995 As above but less successful, turning strange with name changes and periods of moody brilliance, culminates with an incredible album - The Gold Experience (Although it was written 1993/94). In a way this is another great period for Prince. - 8/10

1996 - 1997 Beginning of decline, much inferior product, barely there music, overload-en sets of mixed quality, flashes of brilliance, but a decline.- 5/10

1998 - 2001 The nadir of his music, ranges from bad sex jams to boring commercial sellouts (Rave) and then a 180 with the hate filled TRC album. Too experimental and lots of crappy music. - 1/10

2002 - 2004 The long decline continues, NPGMC period of much music and no quality control, releasing what he puts out and 6 substandard albums and live albums. His most forgettable music and it ends with a very focused and disciplined album - but now ultimately boring.- 2/10

2005 - 2008 Coming back period, Prince starts opening up to mainstream, releases some decent albums and songs. Is funky again, plays it safe, the elder statesmen of funk. A great improvement, but still offering nothing new. Indigo nights and book a huge back step with vanity and self indulgence. - 6/10

2009 - 2012 Prince is Prince again, new and daring music, more prolific again, dating women and making songs that show flashes of 80s brilliance (Futuresoulsong, Laydown, Colonised mind) and he is in the public eye. - 7/10

2013 - now Prince as the icon, playing rock n roll and funk, becoming very prolific with his music, looking back and touring, musical entities, himself, NPG, 3rd eye girl, influencing new artists like Andy Allo, Judith Hill - very much the Renaissance of Prince. - 8/10

[Edited 2/14/16 1:23am]

4 someone who was harping about RANKING albums... u sure know how to RANK is personal life...

wut about the loss of his child... 1/10 i'd say?... rolleyes

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Reply #78 posted 02/15/16 12:06am

thedance

avatar

1978: For You (8)
1979: Prince (8)
1980: Dirty Mind (10)
1981: Controversy (9.5)
1982: 1999 (10)
1984: Purple Rain (10)
1985: Around The World In A Day (10)
1986: Parade (10)
1987: Sign “☮” The Times (10)
1988: Lovesexy (10)
1989: Batman (8)
1990: Graffiti Bridge (8)
1991: Diamonds & Pearls (9)
1992: The Love Symbol Album '92 (9)
1993: The Hits / The B-sides (10)
1994: Come (9)
1994: The Black Album (9.5)
1995: The Gold Experience (10)
1996: Chaos & Disorder (7)
1996: Emancipation (8)
1998: Crystal Ball (8)
1998: The Truth (7)
1998: Kamasutra (0)
1998: Newpower Soul (4)
1999: The Vault... Old Friends 4 Sale (6)
1999: Rave Un2 The Joy Fantastic (6)
2001: Rave In2 The Joy Fantastic (7)
2001: The Very Best Of Prince (10)
2001: The Rainbow Children (8.5)
2002: One Nite Alone... Piano (3)
2002: One Nite Alone... Live (2)
2003: Xpectation (2)
2003: N.E.W.S. (2)
2004: Musicology (7)
2004: The Chocolate Invasion (6)
2004: The Slaughterhouse (6)
2004: C-Note (2)
2006: 3121 (5)
2006: Ultimate Prince (Best Of) (10)
2007: Planet Earth (5)
2008: Indigo Nights (Book & CD) (2)
2009: Lotusflower (7.5)
2009: MPLSound (7)
2010: 20Ten (6)
2014: Art Official Age (8)
2014: PlectrumElectrum (2)
2015: HITnRUN Phase 1 (8)
2015: HITnRUN Phase 2 (2)

> the fall began in 1996 / after the brilliant The Gold Experience wink

Prince 4Ever. heart
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Reply #79 posted 02/15/16 2:18am

Adorecream

feeluupp said:

4 someone who was harping about RANKING albums... u sure know how to RANK is personal life...

wut about the loss of his child... 1/10 i'd say?... rolleyes

4 some who starts a lot of "Whats the worst" type thread, you sure know how to troll! lol

.

I love writing constructive and informed posts about his career, just to have haters and trolls like you wreck them and tear them down. - Grow up and go back to hiding under bridges and clubbing passers by, isn't that what trolls do?

[Edited 2/15/16 2:19am]

Got some kind of love for you, and I don't even know your name
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Reply #80 posted 02/15/16 4:52am

ThePanther

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"The Fall" seems too strong word to describe his gradual downward trend (to say nothing of the Judeo-Christian associations).

.

For me, I think his recording/pro career can be broken down into four VERY large stages, both in terms of his artistic output and in terms of his commercial appeal:

1) 1976 to 1981: Exciting, rising star, learning his craft

2) 1982 to 1987: Commercial and Artistic Peak

3) 1988 to 1997: Still commercially strong, but large loss of artistic achievement

4) 1998 to now: Gone from mainstream culture (brief 'comeback' in 2004), too idiosyncratic for casual fans to follow

.

There's nothing at all unusual or disappointing about this sort of career-curve -- if anything, he's done way better than most famous artists. That long stretch of commercial impact from around 1982 through 1997 is 15 years, way more than most people. And in that 15 years, he released something like 15 albums (including 2 doubles, 1 triple). So, kudos to him.

.

The only disappointment to me when looking at his mainstream impact is that, in "Stage 3" (as I've outlined above), Prince never had another BIG commercial moment that coincided with artistic greatness. Diamonds & Pearls was a huge seller, and I like it, but it's hardly one of his greater artistic reaches. The main problem there, of course, is that he was chasing trends in Stage 3, which he'd never done before. It's hard to be artistically valid when you're doing that.

.

It's probably a combination of the emergence of hip-hop into mainstream culture (late 80s), Paisley Park itself (cutting him off from the everyday 'street' culture he should have been plugged into), and the severing of band-members (1986) and management (1988) that sort-of left him vulnerable at a time when he was just starting to lose inspiration a bit. Tying into that second point, I also suspect that the cost of Paisley Park, compounded by the commercial 'failure' of Lovesexy, is what led Prince to jump on the Batman soundtrack, which was really his first inessential release (since his debut).

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Reply #81 posted 02/15/16 7:51am

feeluupp

Adorecream said:

feeluupp said:

4 someone who was harping about RANKING albums... u sure know how to RANK is personal life...

wut about the loss of his child... 1/10 i'd say?... rolleyes

4 some who starts a lot of "Whats the worst" type thread, you sure know how to troll! lol

.

I love writing constructive and informed posts about his career, just to have haters and trolls like you wreck them and tear them down. - Grow up and go back to hiding under bridges and clubbing passers by, isn't that what trolls do?

[Edited 2/15/16 2:19am]

yes because discussing his albums not as strong as the 80's or compilating a list is 2 hars 4 the fans here... prince has never made a bad album. lol

yet u read the front page:

another self destructive single

when did the fall begin

cook jugg

phase 3 confirmed

prince twitter ama

... yet u say im the troll lol lol

wait let me guess.... do i get a 10/10?

[Edited 2/15/16 7:52am]

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Reply #82 posted 02/15/16 8:03am

databank

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jayspud said:

databank said:

Thing that always puzzled me is that the US has always been ahead of Europe on so many things and at the same time is so late by comparison to us when it comes to bigotry and superstition. For example the whole creationism vs. evolution in school thing is unthinkeable in Europe. It's very strange to me.

I have to say the cover wasn't an issue in the UK, I had both posters in A1 (3ft) size on my wall as a fourteen year old. I'm not sure exactly what areas of being ahead you are referring to, the Enlightenment beginning in Europe approx 60 years before modern America was founded. It is quite dichotomous as the USA can be prudish with sex but also conversely produces most of the worlds pornography.

What I meant that when it comes to media, technology and lifestyle/social changes, in the 20th century the US were often (not always but often) a few years ahead of Europe. And artistically it's been an amazing century for the US as well. I remember for example up until the early 90's, except in UK (the only country with Japan that could rival the US), european music scenes were always two trains late. Of course there were exceptions (Kraftwerk is the most obvious example), but they were exceptions. Feminism was also HUGE in the US for example. And yeah a lot of the free love movement and porn industry came from the US as well.

On the other hand when it comes to many other aspects of sex and religion, the US is still stuck in the 19th century. Debates such as should we ban Harry Potter from school libraries or should we put crationism on an equal level with evolution in schools are unthinkeable in Europe.

A COMPREHENSIVE PRINCE DISCOGRAPHY (work in progress ^^): https://sites.google.com/...scography/
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Reply #83 posted 02/15/16 3:11pm

KingSausage

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databank said:



jayspud said:


databank said:


Thing that always puzzled me is that the US has always been ahead of Europe on so many things and at the same time is so late by comparison to us when it comes to bigotry and superstition. For example the whole creationism vs. evolution in school thing is unthinkeable in Europe. It's very strange to me.



I have to say the cover wasn't an issue in the UK, I had both posters in A1 (3ft) size on my wall as a fourteen year old. I'm not sure exactly what areas of being ahead you are referring to, the Enlightenment beginning in Europe approx 60 years before modern America was founded. It is quite dichotomous as the USA can be prudish with sex but also conversely produces most of the worlds pornography.

What I meant that when it comes to media, technology and lifestyle/social changes, in the 20th century the US were often (not always but often) a few years ahead of Europe. And artistically it's been an amazing century for the US as well. I remember for example up until the early 90's, except in UK (the only country with Japan that could rival the US), european music scenes were always two trains late. Of course there were exceptions (Kraftwerk is the most obvious example), but they were exceptions. Feminism was also HUGE in the US for example. And yeah a lot of the free love movement and porn industry came from the US as well.


On the other hand when it comes to many other aspects of sex and religion, the US is still stuck in the 19th century. Debates such as should we ban Harry Potter from school libraries or should we put crationism on an equal level with evolution in schools are unthinkeable in Europe.




Not to get too far astray, but the issue is that although social values have liberalized to a great extent in the U.S. (especially during the periods you mentioned) the groups and organizations who oppose such liberalization tend to have a lot of money and organized power. And they tend to direct their ire at works of art or public expression. They tend to make the country seem a lot more puritanical than it truly is.

But there's also a disgusting strand of homophobia that we still struggle with. That sunk the Lovesexy cover in 1988.
"Drop that stereo before I blow your Goddamn nuts off, asshole!"
-Eugene Tackleberry
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Reply #84 posted 02/15/16 3:19pm

NorthC

Yes a strange mix of forward and backward thinking people over there in the US. confused
[Edited 2/16/16 0:28am]
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Reply #85 posted 02/20/16 7:42am

purplethunder3
121

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NorthC said:

Yes a strange mix of forward and backward thinking people over there in the US. confused [Edited 2/16/16 0:28am]

Tell me about it... confused

"Music gives a soul to the universe, wings to the mind, flight to the imagination and life to everything." --Plato

https://youtu.be/CVwv9LZMah0
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Reply #86 posted 02/20/16 1:07pm

OldFriends4Sal
e

NorthC said:

Yes a strange mix of forward and backward thinking people over there in the US. confused [Edited 2/16/16 0:28am]

that is how the world is,
We could go country by country and find all the things we thing are strange or forward/backward thinking.
By 1988 we were still fresh out of 'sexual revolution' and showing womens bodies is one thing, showing mens bodies is another.

There was some kind of study that showed in Italy men prefered more smaller breasts, in America men in general prefered bigger breasts...

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Reply #87 posted 02/21/16 12:51pm

FUNKNROLL

RosesRred said:



appleseed said:


Back in the day, "Diamonds and Pearls" was the last time my buddies and I saw a line out the door of a rekka sto for a Prince album. But the fall might have started after "Lovesexy;" "Lovesexy" was the last time I saw a line out the door — and around the block — the day of release. A shop in downtown San Francisco actually repeatedly ran out of "Parade" on at least two occasions the first week of release.



Buddy and I actually bought a CD each and the cassette so we could play "DAP" in the car as he dropped me off from work. Despite Cream, Willing and Able, Gett Off, Money Don't Matter 2 Night, we thought the album was his biggest misfire to date. We both realized something was amiss after the album started with Thunder (not a bad song, just not a great opener).



The 90s and 00s were brutal now that I look back at them:


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prince_(musician)#Discography




Lovesexy was the second nail


Straight men were falling like a heavy hailstorm..no return.


I remember being on the school bus and teenagers were back of the bus


just dogging out Prince and the album cover. I just kept hearing them


saying they wouldn't be caught buying that x%$# due to him being naked


on the cover and we are not going to talk about that pose. confused


If teenagers were thinking that you can just imagine what grown men


were thinking.


I'm a female and went to purchase it, I placed the front cover down.I remember


flipping the cover inside out after purchasing it.


I too was embarrased. People weren't feeling him or relating to him..


you tend to run the other direction when you can't comprehend a subject.


It was a very good CD..I couldn't stop listening to Lovesexy..


and I enjoyed the Concert too. wow the memories fatalbert


We all learn from our mistakes..I'm sure like all of us, Prince also says


"What was I thinking?!"






Probably "mission accomplished and no regrets". There are too many esoteric concepts deliberately on display in that artwork for it to be otherwise.

Many ancient cultures believed the pinnacle of enlightenment was achieved through unification of the genders, with transgendered people representing a higher state of being. The colors red and blue represented heaven and earth.

Observing the album cover with those details in mind - Prince appears almost transgendered and the color is purple (red and blue). The albums message is well known in these forums. In my opinion this is a great cover because it's advertising its content. Would have worked as the cover to the shelved Camille album, too. Perhaps Lovesexy is the fully formed version of the Camille album, with Prince not hiding behind that voice.
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Reply #88 posted 02/21/16 1:33pm

appleseed

Prince's shout outs to those who exhist outside of hetero-normative cultures are usually more subtle, so he finally made it more explicit.

Art Official Cage:

Konger og dronninger og alt der imellem
[Translation: "Kings and queens and everything in between"]

Le Grind:

When I get naked, we'll see the real you...

All the boys say "Yeah Yeah" (Yeah Yeah)
All the girls say "Oh Yeah" (Oh Yeah)
Now all you others say "Hell Yeah" (Hell Yeah)


Probably "mission accomplished and no regrets". There are too many esoteric concepts deliberately on display in that artwork for it to be otherwise. Many ancient cultures believed the pinnacle of enlightenment was achieved through unification of the genders, with transgendered people representing a higher state of being. The colors red and blue represented heaven and earth. Observing the album cover with those details in mind - Prince appears almost transgendered and the color is purple (red and blue). The albums message is well known in these forums. In my opinion this is a great cover because it's advertising its content. Would have worked as the cover to the shelved Camille album, too. Perhaps Lovesexy is the fully formed version of the Camille album, with Prince not hiding behind that voice.

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Reply #89 posted 02/21/16 7:03pm

delirious26

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Wow....after reading everyone's definition of "the fall", i have realized that I am the only fan ever who LOVES Emancipation (disc 2)...sadness cry sad sigh

How'm I gonna fill this empty room...
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