KCOOLMUZIQ said:

@2;55

Eye have no respect 4 Snoop anymore...

he didn't say anything that wasn't true.We all know that Prince is notoriously "stingy" about things like samples and people remaking his songs.The irony is that he allowed MC Hammer (a whack ass rapper) to sample "When Doves Cry" on his song "Pray",but then he refuses to let Snoop (a credible rapper) sample one of his song,smh.

SoulAlive said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

funksterr said:

laurarichardson said:

SoulAlive said:

he didn't say anything that wasn't true.We all know that Prince is notoriously "stingy" about things like samples and people remaking his songs.The irony is that he allowed MC Hammer (a whack ass rapper) to sample "When Doves Cry" on his song "Pray",but then he refuses to let Snoop (a credible rapper) sample one of his song,smh.

--- It is music to be stingy with!!! The monies from the "When Doves Cry sample went to settle the lawsuit with his Gomba manager. Also you will notice that the Hammer song was about praying not smoking fucking weed. Hammer was not the best rapper but he was never the cooning weed smoking idiot that Snoop still is today.

Plus Hammer didn't use much profanity. Which is dead against. But Snoop was overly derogatory toward about it. Every artist has a right to do what they want with their catalog. To me it seems like Snoop is bitter. Because he doesn't own his publishing,masters etc. Doesn't have the control does of his legacy.

TrevorAyer said:

does it ever occur to anyone that the time would not exist without morris? .. the songs the music the image

y'all give prince way too much credit .. like he envisioned all this time swagger and just hired morris to fit the part ..

no .. p played off of what morris already brought to the table, embellished it, produced it, polished it, drove it, but morris was the spark .. the inspiration, his personality, his way of talking shit or goofing off .. p copied that, as well as the music morris and friends came up with .. p lifted that and molded it .. but in no fucking way in hell did p just come up with this shit all by himself .. and no fucking way he can ever recreate without those people present and participating

same with other band members .. p lifted the basis of those songs and added his own thing but he was not the spark .. the people around him were

prince is an excellent mimic ... p can play anything he hears ... and did so when coming up with many of his songs including his work on the time albums .. that doesn't mean he wrote it all .. that doesn't mean prince could have had a hit with Jungle Love had he sung it .. he would not have .. just look at nothing compares to you .. prince version blows chunks .. sinead knocked that shit out of the park ..

If you weren't in a permanent anti-Prince campaign we could adhere to some of your points but everything you say is flawed by your propaganda campaign.

I agree that Morris certainly added a lot of his personality to The Time and that with Alexander or anyone else it would have been quite different, and that the music scene around Prince had a certain influence on him (notably the disdain for horns, which was in fact arleady there in most Mpsls R&B bands at the time when everyone else in the US was high on horns).

Now when I read u basically saying "Prince didn't do anything by himself and stole everything interesting in his music, including songwriting, from bandmembers I'm sorry but that's and you, in fact, know it as much as I do. Those things are documented, you can't go around in a public forum and lie shamelessly like that.

[Edited 1/20/16 4:49am]

bigbrother said:

Considering Prince's control issues and ego, do you think he should have been the frontman/lead singer for The Time? As he's admitted they were the only band he's ever feared and by doing this he could have reinforced the fact that he wrote many of their songs and showed off his multi-faceted skills with both The Time and The Revolution, expressing himself differently with each band. I believe he did this a few years ago with 3rd Eye Girl and The NPG so why not then? He could have relegated Morris to the drums as he was/is a pretty good on the skins but could Prince have pulled off Morris' 'pimp' act with Jerome to such comic effect? Would he have had to change his clothes as well, since the purple trenchcoat of the 1999 wouldn't really have matched The Time's style?

Onre thing you seem to forget is the context:

- Prince wanted to establish himself as a songwriter/producer for other artists and had expressely demanded that his WB contract include the possibility for him to release side-projects like this. He considered releasing albums by Sue-Ann and The Rebels even before The Time came-up. Therefore it was necessary for him to have someone else fronting the band.

- Prince wanted to create the illusion (which soon became a reality) that the "minneapolis sound" he had created was not just him but him as part of a wider artistic movement, so it was necessary again to have someone else fronting the band but also to hide his own input in the project and subsequent ones.

- Prince wanted, similarly to Stephen King with "Richard Bachman" and plenty other artists before and since them, to see how some of his work would be received if people didn't associate it with his persona, therfore again the necessity to have another singer and hide his involvement. Once an old fan here said "at the time me and my friends thought The Time was great but disapproved P's queer and provocative attitude and we felt he should sound and act like The Time, later it was revealed the joke was on us." The strategy worked, at least the first years. Indeed, people who could be annoyed by P's falsetto voice, the queer looks or the constant religious allusions could feel attracted to a band like The Time that was macho, materialistic and much closer to "the street".

- Prince wanted to make a shitload of cash by writing for others, establishing himself as a succesful songwriter in the industry would allow him to write for popular artists outside of his sphere of influence: again it worked and soon Prince was a very sought-after songwriter. The Time, the 6's and Sheila were tools in achieving that purpose.

- Prince wanted to be able to release more music that WB would allow him because it wasn't the 60's anymore when James Brown could release 5 albums a year, therefore he couldn't do more than one "Prince" album a year, so he had to release his music through other channels, including and proeminently the side-projects.

- In regards to the above and to Prince's own solo career, fronting a band besides his own solo career would only have made it confusing for the audience. Imagine it's 1982: you hear a song with P's voice but the DJ says it's a band called The Time, and you're like "WTF?", or you see a video of The Time but wait! It's another band behind the lead singer, and MTV says that band is called "Prince", again: "WTF?". In terms of career it would have been insane at a time when Prince was still establishing himself and conquering a fanbase. Releasing Newpower Soul as an NPG album with him on vocals and the front cover in 1998 was totally difefrent: Prince was already established ans anyway, even with Gold Nigga and Exodus no one was fooled anymore, people knew "New Power Generation" was just another outlet for Prince to release his own music.

I remember at one of those 1st Avenue reunion shows when the Family was getting back together, Andre, the Revolution etc where all there, and Mazarati

and the lead -Casey Terry said "We are the black band Prince always wanted to be..." I'm think WTF? First of all dude you sound stupid, Prince never want to be a 'black band', you pop out of obscurity(because of the fans love of that time period...simmer down)

OldFriends4Sale said:

I remember at one of those 1st Avenue reunion shows when the Family was getting back together, Andre, the Revolution etc where all there, and Mazarati

and the lead -Casey Terry said "We are the black band Prince always wanted to be..." I'm think WTF? First of all dude you sound stupid, Prince never want to be a 'black band', you pop out of obscurity(because of the fans love of that time period...simmer down)

I'm not sure if it was Casey but I think it's him, at least it was someone from the band, who clearly had a grudge against Prince for the whole Kiss affair, saying "that's how u get ripped off a million bucks in the music industry when u're young and naive".

Only thing is:

- If anyone could claim co-writing credits on Kiss and get money from its success, it apparently was David Z, not the band.

- It's very unlikely that Mazarati's version of Kiss would have been a hit, or even moderately succesful, if they'd been allowed to keep it. Not just because it was vastly inferior to P's final mix, but also because WB wouldn't have backed it up any more than they backed-up what the singles and album they finally released (and God knows they were great!).

I think in that show, Casey just said the first dissing thing about P that crossed his mind

funksterr said:

laurarichardson said:

funksterr said: --- If you think Morris is a better singer than Prince you need to put down the crack pipe. If Prince wanted to be an Just an RnB guy he could have fronted the group but obviously he wanted to do more than RnB guy. Cat Glover said that the Morris Day is Prince when he is in playboy mode so that blows your theory.

Bonus points for mentioning Cat and crack in the same post. I can't see Prince doing his lace pants burlesque 'Does your man have an ass like mine?' booty-shake and cooing, falsetto routine and it having the same success as The Time did with those songs. If anything DMSR should have been a Time song, and International Lover. Idk, we might like Morris's versions better if Prince would stop playing and let them out the vault.

I felt like International Lover was a Time song originally.

And then while looking through the studio recordings for What Time Is It? International Lover appears during those sessions. I think it might have worked better with the Time

Initial tracking took place on 14 January, 1982 at Sunset Sound, Hollywood, CA, USA (three days after Bold Generation and Gigolos Get Lonely Too, the same day as The Walk, and the day before Colleen), during sessions for The Time's second album What Time Is It?.

It was intended to be sung by Morris Day, but Prince reclaimed the song to use on 1999 instead. It is likely that Morris Day recorded vocals for the song during these sessions, but this is unconfirmed.

-PrinceVault

databank said:

TrevorAyer said:

does it ever occur to anyone that the time would not exist without morris? .. the songs the music the image

y'all give prince way too much credit .. like he envisioned all this time swagger and just hired morris to fit the part ..

no .. p played off of what morris already brought to the table, embellished it, produced it, polished it, drove it, but morris was the spark .. the inspiration, his personality, his way of talking shit or goofing off .. p copied that, as well as the music morris and friends came up with .. p lifted that and molded it .. but in no fucking way in hell did p just come up with this shit all by himself .. and no fucking way he can ever recreate without those people present and participating

same with other band members .. p lifted the basis of those songs and added his own thing but he was not the spark .. the people around him were

prince is an excellent mimic ... p can play anything he hears ... and did so when coming up with many of his songs including his work on the time albums .. that doesn't mean he wrote it all .. that doesn't mean prince could have had a hit with Jungle Love had he sung it .. he would not have .. just look at nothing compares to you .. prince version blows chunks .. sinead knocked that shit out of the park ..

If you weren't in a permanent anti-Prince campaign we could adhere to some of your points but everything you say is flawed by your propaganda campaign.

I agree that Morris certainly added a lot of his personality to The Time and that with Alexander or anyone else it would have been quite different, and that the music scene around Prince had a certain influence on him (notably the disdain for horns, which was in fact arleady there in most Mpsls R&B bands at the time when everyone else in the US was high on horns).

Now when I read u basically saying "Prince didn't do anything by himself and stole everything interesting in his music, including songwriting, from bandmembers I'm sorry but that's and you, in fact, know it as much as I do. Those things are documented, you can't go around in a public forum and lie shamelessly like that.

[Edited 1/20/16 4:49am]

Hey Data ..

.

I see you are trying to hold what you believe is a non troll conversation.

Instead of just your usual emoticon that you tend to reply to my posts, you have actually written words. Congratulations on your step in the right direction.

.

still you need a mirror in your trollbank databank, so that you can see the troll u have become

.

"if you did not have your head so far up prince ass I might adhere to some of your points" might be how I would begin my response if I too were a TROLL

.

The assertion that I am in a permanent anti Prince campaign is a lie. I write positive things all the time, even about his most recent music. Go ahead and look it up. It is all there adn you are lying and are there for a troll and bully who spreads lies.

.

I have no propaganda campaign (contrary to your typical troll like assertions) I simply read and respond with my thoughts like most people.

.

when you start a sentence with "now when I read you BASICALLY saying prince blah blah" already you are lying. you sum up my words with your own words that are not honest. you are a troll.

.

I gladly admit I believe that prince does not give out proper credit and would not be where he is on the food chain with out them. I have never said prince did not do anything on his own or that he is not talented in his own right. I simply believe that great music represents and honest moment of people and energy coming together at a certain time and it gets recorded. I find the endless notion that prince did it all all the time all by himself far past dishonest .. to see how prince plays out his relationships with past friends is also disgusting .. I have everyright to express my views and have done so ... your efforts to micromanage every valid point I make by undermining my character constantly is harrassment

.

I share my honest views and have every right to

.

I have emboldened your response as it would have been minus your troll and harrassing bully additions so that you have an example of how to interact without being a jerk

TrevorAyer said:

databank said:

If you weren't in a permanent anti-Prince campaign we could adhere to some of your points but everything you say is flawed by your propaganda campaign.

I agree that Morris certainly added a lot of his personality to The Time and that with Alexander or anyone else it would have been quite different, and that the music scene around Prince had a certain influence on him (notably the disdain for horns, which was in fact arleady there in most Mpsls R&B bands at the time when everyone else in the US was high on horns).

Now when I read u basically saying "Prince didn't do anything by himself and stole everything interesting in his music, including songwriting, from bandmembers I'm sorry but that's and you, in fact, know it as much as I do. Those things are documented, you can't go around in a public forum and lie shamelessly like that.

[Edited 1/20/16 4:49am]

Hey Data ..

.

I see you are trying to hold what you believe is a non troll conversation.

Instead of just your usual emoticon that you tend to reply to my posts, you have actually written words. Congratulations on your step in the right direction.

.

still you need a mirror in your trollbank databank, so that you can see the troll u have become

.

"if you did not have your head so far up prince ass I might adhere to some of your points" might be how I would begin my response if I too were a TROLL

.

The assertion that I am in a permanent anti Prince campaign is a lie. I write positive things all the time, even about his most recent music. Go ahead and look it up. It is all there adn you are lying and are there for a troll and bully who spreads lies.

.

I have no propaganda campaign (contrary to your typical troll like assertions) I simply read and respond with my thoughts like most people.

.

when you start a sentence with "now when I read you BASICALLY saying prince blah blah" already you are lying. you sum up my words with your own words that are not honest. you are a troll.

.

I gladly admit I believe that prince does not give out proper credit and would not be where he is on the food chain with out them. I have never said prince did not do anything on his own or that he is not talented in his own right. I simply believe that great music represents and honest moment of people and energy coming together at a certain time and it gets recorded. I find the endless notion that prince did it all all the time all by himself far past dishonest .. to see how prince plays out his relationships with past friends is also disgusting .. I have everyright to express my views and have done so ... your efforts to micromanage every valid point I make by undermining my character constantly is harrassment

.

I share my honest views and have every right to

.

I have emboldened your response as it would have been minus your troll and harrassing bully additions so that you have an example of how to interact without being a jerk

OK listen if it's gonna be like that I think unless I agree with your posts (since it seems agreeing is the only option), I'm going to ignore them and refrain from replying to them in the future. But we both know what's going on here, and lots of other people do too. But OK, you win, do your thing, I'm not gonna let this become something personal. Peace.

laurarichardson said:

funksterr said:

Bonus points for mentioning Cat and crack in the same post. I can't see Prince doing his lace pants burlesque 'Does your man have an ass like mine?' booty-shake and cooing, falsetto routine and it having the same success as The Time did with those songs. If anything DMSR should have been a Time song, and International Lover. Idk, we might like Morris's versions better if Prince would stop playing and let them out the vault.

Do you think Prince would have been doing the Time routine in lace? Because if you do you need to get back on your meds. I am under the impression that he would have been wearing his Parade era suits. While Cat may have been a crack head it is does not mean that she wrong about P's playboy persona she did work for him so she should know. I duubt we the fans have any real idea what P's true personality is like. He shows the public what the public wants the public to see.

What does Cat know about Morris? Before her time right? To me Prince, already did his version of Morris in the wake of Purple Rain's success. It wasn't good. Remember Jerome and Prince doing the chili sauce routine during Baby I'm A Star on the PR tour? Prince was, um, well... a bit girly, no? UTCM was the Morris and Jerome thing with no Morris Day. FLOP! Put Morris Day in that role and it's a hit. He's a natural comedian. Prince can write for Morris Day, but he can't deliver the material on the same level Morris can. Give MD is due, please.

funksterr said:

on that 1987 BET Video Soul? with Donnie Simpson where Cat & Gregory sat to talk, they were supposed to insinuate a love triangle that just was not believable. Cat insinuated that she had a secret lover or that Prince was a lover and Gregory was jealous -as he tried to copycat Morris Day...

Only Morris can do that perfectly lol and the 'mystery' lover thing didn't work anymore, especially since Cat & Prince were not. Not to mention the play at Cat & Sheila being lovers... didn't work either.

On a side note there are still two huge unanswered questions regarding the Corporate World project:

1/ Who was supposed to be in the band? We know the studio sessions were only Prince, Morris and Jerome. We know for sure that Jimmy, Terry, Jesse and Paul were not supposed to be part of it. Jellybean at the time was with Jam & Lewis so I guess neither was he. IDK about Monte, Mark and Rocky. Could it be Prince and Morris were planning to hire a whole new cast of bandmembers?

2/ How was that project related to the Graffiti Bridge movie. I'm unsure which draft of the script had been completed by Summer 1989 and whether Morris or The Time were already in it. Corporate World was supposed to be released nearly a year before the GB album (which at that time didn't contain any The Time song) and a year before the GB movie, so it seems odd that any song from CW would have been in it. That leaves me wondering if at this point the GB album was supposed to contain any guest vocalist at all (including Mavis and Tevin). If The Time was already in the script was Prince planning to compose more Time song especially for the project? And how did he plan to release (if at all) the songs by other artists (The Time, Mavis, Tevin, George, but we also know that Ingrid, TC and Robin were potential candidates)? The first configuration to include Time songs is from late 1989, right after CW moved towards Pandemonium, at which point the band had apparently already discarted at least Release It, Love Machine and Shake (The Latest Fashion does not appear in that configuration)!

laurarichardson said:

funksterr said:

What does Cat know about Morris? Before her time right? To me Prince, already did his version of Morris in the wake of Purple Rain's success. It wasn't good. Remember Jerome and Prince doing the chili sauce routine during Baby I'm A Star on the PR tour? Prince was, um, well... a bit girly, no? UTCM was the Morris and Jerome thing with no Morris Day. FLOP! Put Morris Day in that role and it's a hit. He's a natural comedian. Prince can write for Morris Day, but he can't deliver the material on the same level Morris can. Give MD is due, please.

/// She had eyes and ears to see and hear the The Time just like everybody else and like you or I she spent a lot of time around off stage to see different aspects of his personality. I am not taking any from Morris but his track away from the Prince fold speaks volumes.

Yesssss! I see ya. You still throwing shade. You do know that Morris has like, 5-7 hits that Prince didn't produce right?

I'll say it again... after Purple Rain blew up, Prince began acting like HE was Morris Day. Not the other way around. Morris didn't start rocking panties onstage and shuffling around like a drunk one-eyed hooker with VD squealing for penicillin like Prince does. I know Prince helped Morris develop his act, but it speaks volumes about what Morris was doing at that point leading up to Purple Rain versus what Prince was doing that Prince became more Morris Day-like after Purple Rain. Even going so far as to develop THREE more acts heavily incorporating Morris's style and using songs in all likelihood Prince intended for The Time (Sheila E, Mazarati and The Family). And it didn't work....

funksterr said:

On a side note. Morris has been perfecting his drumming live on stage lately with his revamped Morris Day & The Time group. This brings truth to what has said recently about a reunion between the two.

KCOOLMUZIQ said:

laurarichardson said:

KCOOLMUZIQ said:

On a side note. Morris has been perfecting his drumming live on stage lately with his revamped Morris Day & The Time group. This brings truth to what has said recently about a reunion between the two.

Could be because we have never heard or seen this guy play the drums on stage. Could be they patched things up and her moving on to new things.

I think the only show that I know of that he played drums was when @ the 5.8.192 First Avenue show where he play drums on Party Up

HardcoreJollies said:

When Morris Day emerged on the scene fronting the Time it struck me that he was the coolest, baddest persona in black/funk (really all) music since Bootsy arrived in the mid-1970s. And just like George Clinton knew Bootsy was better suited to front his own thing with the Rubber Band so too Prince knew Morris Day was better to front the Time. Both Clinton and Prince helped and supported these cats and were smart enough to know despite their own great talents it was the only way to go. Years later, I think a similar situation with Dr. Dre behind Snoop Dogg.

This is a good post

Also I think it should be noted that Prince didn't tend to release his standard party jams under his own name, his entire shtick was all wrapped up in his religious/sexual struggles. I'd say in the short term the fun funky stuff of the Time it would have helped sales but would have held held him back in the long term as he tried to crossover to a wider (i.e. WHITE) market. Plus i'm not sure Prince jumping from the likes of Something in the Water (Does Not Compute) to The Walk would have made a lot of sense on an album context....

Anyway, no Prince shouldn't have fronted the Time, don't be silly. It's just a pity that he had such control-issues that it didn't occur to him how unsustainable the situation clearly was. All these super talented musicans not being allowed an output on their own albums.

OldFriends4Sale said:

jaawwnn said:

jaawwnn said:

HardcoreJollies said:

When Morris Day emerged on the scene fronting the Time it struck me that he was the coolest, baddest persona in black/funk (really all) music since Bootsy arrived in the mid-1970s. And just like George Clinton knew Bootsy was better suited to front his own thing with the Rubber Band so too Prince knew Morris Day was better to front the Time. Both Clinton and Prince helped and supported these cats and were smart enough to know despite their own great talents it was the only way to go. Years later, I think a similar situation with Dr. Dre behind Snoop Dogg.

This is a good post

Also I think it should be noted that Prince didn't tend to release his standard party jams under his own name, his entire shtick was all wrapped up in his religious/sexual struggles. I'd say in the short term the fun funky stuff of the Time it would have helped sales but would have held held him back in the long term as he tried to crossover to a wider (i.e. WHITE) market. Plus i'm not sure Prince jumping from the likes of Something in the Water (Does Not Compute) to The Walk would have made a lot of sense on an album context....

Anyway, no Prince shouldn't have fronted the Time, don't be silly. It's just a pity that he had such control-issues that it didn't occur to him how unsustainable the situation clearly was. All these super talented musicans not being allowed an output on their own albums.

I just think from the beginning Prince was/wanted to do a lot of different music and take different directions. He always had party jams on his albums, Head Let's Work, Lady Cab Driver, D.M.S.R. etc he just didn't want to be all that. Technically we never saw the religious/sexual 'struggle' until Purple Rain era prior to that he was 100MPH "i'm gonna have fun every M F night / Party Up!!"

I think Prince's struggle was wanting to still be edgy/underground while have a 'crossover' wide spread audience. It's clear just by the people who wanted to work with him, that he always had a crossover as a non popular artist ie Bobby Z David Z Gayle Chapman Lisa Coleman Dr Fink Chris Moon Owen Husney etc

and by 1979 he was already accepted in a European audience,

Like you said, he made the right move,
I think it would have helped the longevity of the Time if they did have a few more songs that went into other areas. Like Party Up is a about 'Partying & issues with War' songs like Movie Star, Dream Factory etc step outside of the 'gigolo' scene but still speaks to a man's hustle and desire to be someone

OldFriends4Sale said:

jaawwnn said:

I just think from the beginning Prince was/wanted to do a lot of different music and take different directions. He always had party jams on his albums, Head Let's Work, Lady Cab Driver, D.M.S.R. etc he just didn't want to be all that. Technically we never saw the religious/sexual 'struggle' until Purple Rain era prior to that he was 100MPH "i'm gonna have fun every M F night / Party Up!!"

I think Prince's struggle was wanting to still be edgy/underground while have a 'crossover' wide spread audience. It's clear just by the people who wanted to work with him, that he always had a crossover as a non popular artist ie Bobby Z David Z Gayle Chapman Lisa Coleman Dr Fink Chris Moon Owen Husney etc

and by 1979 he was already accepted in a European audience,

Like you said, he made the right move,
I think it would have helped the longevity of the Time if they did have a few more songs that went into other areas. Like Party Up is a about 'Partying & issues with War' songs like Movie Star, Dream Factory etc step outside of the 'gigolo' scene but still speaks to a man's hustle and desire to be someone

Yeah, fair point on the religious stuff but I think even his partyjams from earlier albums- Let's Work, Partyup and DMSR being the biggest, weren't just partyjams. He was exploring something else, Partyup is an anti-war song, DMSR is an entire philosophy, Let's Work is... well, just a little bit more twisted and intense than The Walk. I suppose my point is that The Time tracks tended to be a more straight forward than his own stuff.

Btw "PartyUp" was actually written by Morris.

KCOOLMUZIQ said:

Btw "PartyUp" was actually written by Morris.

Right, that is why I suggested that the Time could have expanded their musical vocabulary by examples like Party Up, and deal with social/soul issues that still would come out of the intents of a 'gigolo' or someone who is trying to make it big.

jaawwnn said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

I just think from the beginning Prince was/wanted to do a lot of different music and take different directions. He always had party jams on his albums, Head Let's Work, Lady Cab Driver, D.M.S.R. etc he just didn't want to be all that. Technically we never saw the religious/sexual 'struggle' until Purple Rain era prior to that he was 100MPH "i'm gonna have fun every M F night / Party Up!!"

I think Prince's struggle was wanting to still be edgy/underground while have a 'crossover' wide spread audience. It's clear just by the people who wanted to work with him, that he always had a crossover as a non popular artist ie Bobby Z David Z Gayle Chapman Lisa Coleman Dr Fink Chris Moon Owen Husney etc

and by 1979 he was already accepted in a European audience,

Like you said, he made the right move,
I think it would have helped the longevity of the Time if they did have a few more songs that went into other areas. Like Party Up is a about 'Partying & issues with War' songs like Movie Star, Dream Factory etc step outside of the 'gigolo' scene but still speaks to a man's hustle and desire to be someone

Yeah, fair point on the religious stuff but I think even his partyjams from earlier albums- Let's Work, Partyup and DMSR being the biggest, weren't just partyjams. He was exploring something else, Partyup is an anti-war song, DMSR is an entire philosophy, Let's Work is... well, just a little bit more twisted and intense than The Walk. I suppose my point is that The Time tracks tended to be a more straight forward than his own stuff.

Yes. but PartyUp being written by Morris Day, shows how the Time could have expanded their message to deeper thoughts, yet still have fun and be the downtown fellas trying to make it Uptown

Like Vanity 6 had an outtake called Moral Majority, which could have been a perfect branching out from their voice dealing with issues like the moral majority group at the time, or issues that revolve around women and their sexual freedom and indepenance, breaking patriarchal norms.