OldFriends4Sale said:

Noodled24 said:

God - where the opening lyrics are lifted almost directly from the Christian bible.
Controversy - Where he literally recites the lords prayer... from the christian bible.

30 years later he covers a Christian song "What if" which is far less overtly religious than many of his previous releases, but sees him hailed as a Christian Rocker.

Maybe, maybe, maybe I could learn to love
If I was just closer to somethin' (closer)
Closer to your higher self
I don't know
Closer to heaven (Maybe) closer to God (closer to God)

Save me Jesus, I've been a fool
How could I forget that you are the rule
You are my God, I am Your child
From now on, for you I shall be wild
I shall be quick I shall be strong
I'll tell Your story, no matter how long (no matter how... no matter)

We're just a play in Your master plan
Now, my Lord I understand

(I understand)

Love is God, God is love
Girls and boys love God above

yeah,he pulled at all that stuff off while remaining a rude boy sexed up.

at least he MEANT IT back then.

I also agree with you that his very,very best music was written between 1982 and 86(obviously

including 86).

FUNKYNESS said:

funkyfine said:

First, I realise that this is going to viewed as antagonistic by some and its genuinely not meant to be, its just my opinion and I wanted to air it.

I really don't think that Prince's religion is doing him any favours anymore when it comes to his music and having an equally zealous Josh producing can't help. Prince's music has always had a strong spiritual element but combined with a profane and sexual element. The passion of religion and sex came through and made his music powerful.

The edgy sexuality has gone, as it probably should from a middle aged man's songs, as has the profanity. All we're left with to provide the passion is religion and, in my opinion, religion doesnt work in music unless its gospel.

I'm not sure why but Gospel, in its unadulterated, unremitting worship, is incredibly powerful and beautiful. Culturally, style of music fits the subject.

But Christian rock doesn't work.... its just weak. And i think that the problem (from my atheist perspective) is that religion has no real place in contemporary western life. We don't need to rely on an omnipotent God to explain the world to us anymore... sure there's a lot we don't understand but much of the unknown about daily life that scared the crap out of mankind through the ages is now understood by science. Now its just a crutch, a safety net that allows people to shelter from the brutality of life. I can see that its important to many people and I think thats a good thing, but when it comes to producing art, I think the safety net that it offers tempers the terror, the beauty, the passion etc that can be felt for life. I think that this passion comes across in a lot of other contemporary music but no longer in Prince's. And I blame his religion.

Bob Dylan found god and his albums suffered. Then he lost his religion and they improved hugely. I don't expect Prince to ever lose his religion but it would be nice if, in addition to God, he could find another passion to channel through his art.

Insightful and rational...of course you realize that in being so, this post will get you demonized and attacked in this forum. I commend the intelligence and courage to post it anyway.

This post is not rational nor is it insightful. It reads of someone who is not a real Prince fan, someone not knowing Prince's catalogue. Someone who probably hasn't listend to a Prince album in the last 10+ years

When you or the OP (which I doubt will be back to reply) can post all this God influenced Jesus driven music, then we can have an insightful rational conversation.

It is lazy because they are not looking at other influences into why 'Prince isn't doing 'good'' anymore, which I assume the OP is blameing Joshua Welton on why Prince isn't at least hitting Hits like the mid 90s at least
Oh I'm sorry he did hint that Prince was old or middle aged and his edgy sexuality and profanity is gone (AS IT SHOULD BE) according 2 the OP

SignOthetimes1987 said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

Maybe, maybe, maybe I could learn to love
If I was just closer to somethin' (closer)
Closer to your higher self
I don't know
Closer to heaven (Maybe) closer to God (closer to God)

Save me Jesus, I've been a fool
How could I forget that you are the rule
You are my God, I am Your child
From now on, for you I shall be wild
I shall be quick I shall be strong
I'll tell Your story, no matter how long (no matter how... no matter)

We're just a play in Your master plan
Now, my Lord I understand

(I understand)

Love is God, God is love
Girls and boys love God above

yeah,he pulled at all that stuff off while remaining a rude boy sexed up.

at least he MEANT IT back then.

I also agree with you that his very,very best music was written between 1982 and 86(obviously

including 86).

Yes he did. And of course rational people -we know there are many ingrediants that made that 1980s period a Golden era (I'm including 1987 88 89)

1990s Graffiti Bridge was a fail in that it seemed he tried to hard to convey some message of God and love (even going to the extent of removing sex and violence from the film as he said)

Prince is a Gemini, as I am, and we are extremely passionate people, to try to curb that is not natural for us. Being in control is one thing, but to cut it off is death)

Did the OP have issue with Lovesexy?

.
I mean even Rainbow Children did not have very blatant JESUS messages

Rainbow Children actually focuses more on Egyptology then Christianity. I mean unless he is pulling from some 2nd book of the JWs 95% of the story is not anything 'bible'
.
God, I Would Die 4 U, 4 the Tears in Your Eyes, the Cross, Anestesia, Eye Know and many others

.

I know
(Listen, the soul of this song belongs to God)

Welcome to the new power generation
The reason my voice is so clear
Is there's no smack in my brain
Hundalasiliah

I know there is a heaven
I know there is a hell
Listen to me people
I got a story to tell

I know there was confusion
Lightnin' all around me
That's when I called his name
Don't you know he found me

No, is what Spooky Electric say
It's not okay
But I know love is the only way
Till my dying day

No, 'til my dying day I'll be okay
'Cuz 'Lovesexy' is the one
'Til my day is done
Hundalasiliah

I know there is a devil
Because he talks so loud
He makes you do things that your friends do
Hang out with the crowd

But my Lord, he is so quiet
When He calls your name
When you hear it your heart will thunder
You will want to hear it every day

No
(People)
Is what Spooky Electric say
(Everybody say)
But don't you know that I know
Love is the only way 'til my dying day

No 'til my dying day I'll be okay
'Cuz 'Lovesexy' is the one
'Til my day is done
Hundalasiliah

Alright y'all, everybody in the house
(Serve it up, Frankie)
Here's what I want you to do

Raise your hand up straight in the air
Swing it to the right, savoir faire
Up on the to, swing on the four
Everybody on the dance floor

Y'all ain't got it together
Go ahead, go ahead, go ahead

Raise your hand up straight in the air
(Let's get it up, let's get it up)

Say no
(Say no)
No, if you can't find your way, everybody say
(Say no)
No, if you're afraid everybody ain't got it made
(Say no)

If you want a drug other than the God above
No, if you need a drink every single day
Blow that devil away

Say yes, yes, if you want this feeling called love
(Come on 'ya, say)
Yes, if you want it now raise your hand to the man above
(Yes)

Up on the to, swing right on the four
We want everybody to open this door

Say no if you don't wanna live life under the gun
(I know)
We know a better way to have some fun
(I know)

I know there is a heaven and a hell
I know there is a heaven and a hell

OldFriends4Sale said:

Prince is a Gemini, as I am, and we are extremely passionate people, to try to curb that is not natural for us. Being in control is one thing, but to cut it off(cut of passion) is death)

Now that's completely rational and insightful.

Long ago, there was a man
Change stone to bread with the touch of his hand
Made the blind see and the dumb understand

He died for the tears in your eyes
Your eyes

Many people came from all around
Hear this man preach, glorious sound
Spoke of man in harmony and love abound

He died for the tears in your eyes
Your eyes

Your eyes
Your, eyes

Died for the tears in your eyes
For the tears in your eyes
And the tears of sorrow
For cents may be all that they're worth
For the rising sun each day assures us
The meek shall inherit the earth
The earth

Faith is a word, we all should try
Describing the man who willingly died
Believe that your hunger, sorrow, and fears

Is less than the tears in your eyes
Your eyes

Less than the tears in your eyes
For the tears in your eyes
And the tears of sorrow
For cents may be all that they're worth (All they're worth)
For the rising sun each day assures us
The meek shall inherit the earth

Say it again
For the tears in your eyes
And the tears of sorrow
For cents may be all that they're worth (All they're worth)
For the rising sun each day assures us
The meek shall inherit the earth
The earth

Genesia said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

and Parade

but I agree

I don't get Prince fans who are embarrassed with those early years like Prince Dirty Mind and the wildness

and I don't get Prince fans who act like all he does is sing about the Father Son & Holy Ghost

I mean really -the hypocracy of some people. From Rave Un2 the Joy Fantastic - AOA (leaving Rainbow Children aside for a moment) where are all these religious songs?

Christian Rock? do they mean like the Cross?
This just seems to be a members internal issues with being an atheist and a Prince fan.

Or I Would Die 4 U? (Which is probably the most obvious Jesus metaphor he's ever written.)

I'm not a woman
I'm not a man
I am something that you'll never understand

I'll never beat you
I'll never lie
And if you're evil I'll forgive you by and by

'Cause you, I would die for you, yeah
Darling if you want me to
You, I would die for you

I'm not your lover
I'm not your friend
I am something that you'll never comprehend

No need to worry
No need to cry
I'm your messiah and you're the reason why

'Cause you, I would die for you, yeah
Darling if you want me to
You, I would die for you

You're just a sinner I am told
Be your fire when you're cold
Make you happy when you're sad
Make you good when you are bad

I'm not a human
I am a dove
I'm your conscious
I am love
All I really need is to know that
You believe

Yeah, I would die for you, yeah
Darling if you want me to
You, I would die for you

Yeah, say one more time

You, I would die for you
Darling if you want me to
You, I would die for you
Two, three, four you

I would die for you
I would die for you
You, I would die for you
You, I would die for you

KingSausage said:

1contessa said:

Well, I for one am glad that Prince has someone like Josh around him, especially since I am a Christian myself. I just hope that Josh doesn't convert into a Jehovah's witness, and stays a Christian, because they don't believe in all the same things pertaining to God and Jesus. Christians believe in God's word (the Bible) and they believe what it says, that Jesus is the only way to Heaven and our Father God, and I don't think that Jehovah's witnesses believe that.

Their mythical sky beings are different than my mythical sky beings!

No kidding eh -

So since the Welton bashing thread in the associated artists forum was an epic fail you decided to try your luck with a similar thread in this forum?

People tend to express from their own perspective/life experience and anybody is free to disagree with it. But to believe that an artist should be stifled because his worldview does not conform to what you believe is just silly.

If an artist only expresses what others think they should talk about instead of what is in their own mind and heart then what kind of art is that?

I want to know where Prince is at, not where somebody else thinks he should be.

dustoff said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

Prince is a Gemini, as I am, and we are extremely passionate people, to try to curb that is not natural for us. Being in control is one thing, but to cut it off(cut of passion) is death)

Now that's completely rational and insightful.

very much so

XxAxX said:

He makes a mean coffee and sounds off about his imaginary friend for hours on end...yup, screams Music Producer to me.

KingSausage said:

XxAxX said:

.

naw. you're simply not qualified to make the call on what i posted.

No. I called it. I called it steaming bullshit. I've noticed a pattern with your posts. You make ridiculous, unfounded statements and then refuse to defend them. When called on it, you just pull this pseudo high road crap that's no more intellectually sound that a playground "I know you are but what am I?" taunt. It's exhausting.

.

i am having fun poking you with a stick, that i admit. you have such a chip on your shoulder, and resort to insults and name-calling so automatically, it's fun to watch you blow

XxAxX said:

NorthC said:

Should we retitle this thread "The XxaxX/King Sausage problem"?
[Edited 9/1/15 11:49am]

NorthC said:

Should we retitle this thread "The XxaxX/King Sausage problem"? [Edited 9/1/15 11:49am]

.

how about we just hide this thread for a bit and clean it up so we can get back on topic track

The main problem right now with the Weltons is their non-existent skills/taste when it comes to producing.It screams LAME all over the place.

Josh gotsa go.And please take that most unfunky drummer the Prince camp has ever seen with you, thanks.I mean, in comparison even Kirk Johnson was more of a funky drummer than Hannah and he wasn't even a "real" drummer in the first place.

OldFriends4Sale said:

how about we just hide this thread for a bit and clean it up so we can get back on topic track

.

sorry to have strayed from the topic of orgers who feel josh welton and his faith in god are destroying prince's career and musical output. i was under the impression that it was inappropriate to attack folks on the basis of their faith but i was wrong. my most sincere apologies

XxAxX said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

how about we just hide this thread for a bit and clean it up so we can get back on topic track

.

sorry to have strayed from the topic of orgers who feel josh welton and his faith in god are destroying prince's career and musical output. i was under the impression that it was inappropriate to attack folks on the basis of their faith but i was wrong. my most sincere apologies

ignore the trolls.
I don't care if someone believes in God(s) or not

We should just stick to the OPs statement and see how credible it is.

Report post that are baiting trolling or off topic

lovepotion said:

babynoz said:

So since the Welton bashing thread in the associated artists forum was an epic fail you decided to try your luck with a similar thread in this forum?

People tend to express from their own perspective/life experience and anybody is free to disagree with it. But to believe that an artist should be stifled because his worldview does not conform to what you believe is just silly.

If an artist only expresses what others think they should talk about instead of what is in their own mind and heart then what kind of art is that?

I want to know where Prince is at, not where somebody else thinks he should be.

[/quote God does not believe in atheists. Therefore atheists do not exist.

I disagree with the part in bold.

I think there is certainly an argument to be had that once an artist truly embraces a religion, their work then becomes censored to a degree, based on their religion. We all know there are now topics Prince won't discuss. There are words he won't say (on record). This isn't inherently a bad thing, sometimes it leads to better writing, other times it leads to shortcuts.

I can understand how an atheist wouldn't get much from songs about god. What I don't understand is how someone can fail to see the trend in Princes music...

OldFriends4Sale said:

XxAxX said:

.

sorry to have strayed from the topic of orgers who feel josh welton and his faith in god are destroying prince's career and musical output. i was under the impression that it was inappropriate to attack folks on the basis of their faith but i was wrong. my most sincere apologies

ignore the trolls.
I don't care if someone believes in God(s) or not

We should just stick to the OPs statement and see how credible it is.

Report post that are baiting trolling or off topic

.

okay. will do

OldFriends4Sale said:

Noodled24 said:

I disagree with the part in bold.

I think there is certainly an argument to be had that once an artist truly embraces a religion, their work then becomes censored to a degree, based on their religion. We all know there are now topics Prince won't discuss. There are words he won't say (on record). This isn't inherently a bad thing, sometimes it leads to better writing, other times it leads to shortcuts.

I can understand how an atheist wouldn't get much from songs about god. What I don't understand is how someone can fail to see the trend in Princes music...

You missed my point which was that the OP and others seem to think that Prince/Josh should not express what THEY believe as THEY see fit.

I did not say anything about topics that Prince no longer covers or words he no longer says. It you want my opinion of people still being butt-hurt because he no longer says bitch, fuck, pussy, dick anymore, that's pretty stupid too.

FFS, we are well over a decade into Prince's new directions. The only thing different is that now Josh is the scapegoat instead of Larry.

Put it this way....your wife decides to change her life, move to another city, or change religions for example. If you can't change her mind then you have to choose whether you are gonna stay and accept the new woman she has become or hit the door.....simple really.

KingSausage said:

I've always wondered about Prince fans who are deeply religious and what their relationship is toward his early albums. Do they find those albums offensive? Do they prefer more recent Prince with his more literal religious aspects? I'm honestly asking because I'm curious. It seems there's a huge flip side to the usual "Prince sucked since he got religious" argument we're all familiar with.

There is a middle ground between being a prude and a libertine y'know.


Personally, either I like something or I don't. Period. I liked Prince but did not much care for For You. I love Controversy but Dirty Mind, not so much.

Love SOTT, don't care for Lovesexy.

Love PR, can't stand ATWIAD.

I have been that way consistently throughout his career. Crazy about 3121 and AOA. Don't care for Musicology or Planet Earth.

Using profanity just for the hell of it is childish and I was glad when Prince stopped doing that kind of "ooooh! he said a cuss word" foolishness.


Profanity used purposefully isn't necessarily offensive but I absolutely detest any and all gimmicks that are over-used for shock value.

dustoff said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

Prince is a Gemini, as I am, and we are extremely passionate people, to try to curb that is not natural for us. Being in control is one thing, but to cut it off(cut of passion) is death)

Now that's completely rational and insightful.

It's also not even close to true. Gems are the very definition of cool and detached. They are capable of a very engaging kind of excitement and enthusiam but almost never engage on an extremely passionate level unless there are other powerful placements in the birth chart that indicate it.

I'm also a Gemini....and a thirty five year student of astrology.

For example, Prince's passion is mainly due to his Scorpio ascendant and his deep well of sensitivity is his Pisces moon. This actually clashes with his detached Gemini sun and can be the source of a crapload of internal conflict.