1contessa said:

Sexy Prince got boring. By the early 90s, even with Sexy MF, it was boring. When Come was first released, it was boring. Now it sounds much better because Prince has largely moved away, but then, it was more of the same old, same old.

As for religion, living in multicultural places, you learn that people worship different deities and while it doesn't make sense to you, you respect, you keep an open mind.

Prince matured like most people expected to do, there's no point in holding it against him that's he not going on and on about 26 positions, that would seem forced and farcical today.

He can still create a sexy vibe, it's just something different.

So since the Welton bashing thread in the associated artists forum was an epic fail you decided to try your luck with a similar thread in this forum?

People tend to express from their own perspective/life experience and anybody is free to disagree with it. But to believe that an artist should be stifled because his worldview does not conform to what you believe is just silly.

If an artist only expresses what others think they should talk about instead of what is in their own mind and heart then what kind of art is that?

I want to know where Prince is at, not where somebody else thinks he should be.

1contessa said:

Well, I for one am glad that Prince has someone like Josh around him, especially since I am a Christian myself. I just hope that Josh doesn't convert into a Jehovah's witness, and stays a Christian, because they don't believe in all the same things pertaining to God and Jesus. Christians believe in God's word (the Bible) and they believe what it says, that Jesus is the only way to Heaven and our Father God, and I don't think that Jehovah's witnesses believe that.

You're all athiests with respect to other people's religions. You don't believe in what they believe. A proper athiest just goes one better, and says you're all deluded. Simple really. Clear your mind. Don't be a slave.

To me it's not so much the fact that he's a religious person that irks me, but the lack of interesting songwriting.

I'm fine if he wants to approach his topics in a more gentle way but far quite a few years now, the bulk of material on an album sounds preachy and stuck in clichés.

His starting point is to consider himself so smart that he feels he should tell the ignorant people how it is and his urge to preach and have the message in your face. But to me he fails to hit the spot where his audience is captured by his messages because he doesn't go deep enough in his songwriting. Both lyrics and song arrangments sound like they have been done on auto pilot.

Everything comes out like a sermon or fluffy popsong. It all sounds very imature.

Even as an atheist I'm totally fine listening to religious music; whether it is from Purcell, Nusrat fateh Ali Khan or sung by Aretha. It's music that's very moving because it's so profoundly heartfelt and made with passion without being condesending towards the listening audience.

He should step down from his pedestal and learn about connecting to people. How do you write when communicating with someone instead of ordering them around. He's too much of a spoilt prince.

It's not his religion that is the problem, it's his attitude towards his audience.

filthyrichyuppie said:

1contessa said:

Well, I for one am glad that Prince has someone like Josh around him, especially since I am a Christian myself. I just hope that Josh doesn't convert into a Jehovah's witness, and stays a Christian, because they don't believe in all the same things pertaining to God and Jesus. Christians believe in God's word (the Bible) and they believe what it says, that Jesus is the only way to Heaven and our Father God, and I don't think that Jehovah's witnesses believe that.

You're all athiests with respect to other people's religions. You don't believe in what they believe. A proper athiest just goes one better, and says you're all deluded. Simple really. Clear your mind. Don't be a slave.

Nah.

funkyfine said:

First, I realise that this is going to viewed as antagonistic by some and its genuinely not meant to be, its just my opinion and I wanted to air it.

I really don't think that Prince's religion is doing him any favours anymore when it comes to his music and having an equally zealous Josh producing can't help. Prince's music has always had a strong spiritual element but combined with a profane and sexual element. The passion of religion and sex came through and made his music powerful.

The edgy sexuality has gone, as it probably should from a middle aged man's songs, as has the profanity. All we're left with to provide the passion is religion and, in my opinion, religion doesnt work in music unless its gospel.

I'm not sure why but Gospel, in its unadulterated, unremitting worship, is incredibly powerful and beautiful. Culturally, style of music fits the subject.

But Christian rock doesn't work.... its just weak. And i think that the problem (from my atheist perspective) is that religion has no real place in contemporary western life. We don't need to rely on an omnipotent God to explain the world to us anymore... sure there's a lot we don't understand but much of the unknown about daily life that scared the crap out of mankind through the ages is now understood by science. Now its just a crutch, a safety net that allows people to shelter from the brutality of life. I can see that its important to many people and I think thats a good thing, but when it comes to producing art, I think the safety net that it offers tempers the terror, the beauty, the passion etc that can be felt for life. I think that this passion comes across in a lot of other contemporary music but no longer in Prince's. And I blame his religion.

Bob Dylan found god and his albums suffered. Then he lost his religion and they improved hugely. I don't expect Prince to ever lose his religion but it would be nice if, in addition to God, he could find another passion to channel through his art.

... right, and atheists choose their belief system because they are immoral and have no sense of accountability ...

EroticDreamer said:

filthyrichyuppie said:

You're all athiests with respect to other people's religions. You don't believe in what they believe. A proper athiest just goes one better, and says you're all deluded. Simple really. Clear your mind. Don't be a slave.

Nah.

Denial is, of course, part of the slave mentality too.

babynoz said:

There's your problem. Prince is of course entirely right to live his life as he chooses and not for our benefit, but the arrival of Larry Graham was a watershed moment in Prince's musical career for me.

laurarichardson said:

KingSausage said:

They don't ruin him. They ruin his music.

--- Well that is ridiculous as well. Some of you need to get a life and stop trying to live vicariously thru someone else. People have the right to express their religion as they like and you have right to not listen. Never mind that we not heard a lot of religion in his music in a good while.

How far do we have to go back for that? I'm thinking... Probably all the way back to What If.

filthyrichyuppie said:

1contessa said:

Well, I for one am glad that Prince has someone like Josh around him, especially since I am a Christian myself. I just hope that Josh doesn't convert into a Jehovah's witness, and stays a Christian, because they don't believe in all the same things pertaining to God and Jesus. Christians believe in God's word (the Bible) and they believe what it says, that Jesus is the only way to Heaven and our Father God, and I don't think that Jehovah's witnesses believe that.

You're all athiests with respect to other people's religions. You don't believe in what they believe. A proper athiest just goes one better, and says you're all deluded. Simple really. Clear your mind. Don't be a slave.

There are probably a couple of thousand gods worshipped throughout the world. I just believe in one less of them than Prince does.

Here's the thing - when Josh does an interview and says "I showed up at Paisley Park and me and Prince talked about Jesus for two hours", that's not particularly interesting to me and it's not what I want to hear from someone with such a big stake in the music. I'm an atheist, so you might as well say that you talked about unicorns for two hours.

The sentence I'd like to hear from someone producing Prince would be :

"I showed up at Paisley Park and me and Prince had a two hour conversation about drum machines, analog synthesizers VS virtual instruments, whether Ableton Live is now a better DAW than Pro Tools, the state of funk and it's current relevance in the pop charts, the latest guitar pedals that just came out......"

Prince says there's no danger in current music - well, there's no danger in surrounding yourself with people who think the same way you do.

Militant said:

Militant said:

Here's the thing - when Josh does an interview and says "I showed up at Paisley Park and me and Prince talked about Jesus for two hours", that's not particularly interesting to me and it's not what I want to hear from someone with such a big stake in the music. I'm an atheist, so you might as well say that you talked about unicorns for two hours.

The sentence I'd like to hear from someone producing Prince would be :

"I showed up at Paisley Park and me and Prince had a two hour conversation about drum machines, analog synthesizers VS virtual instruments, whether Ableton Live is now a better DAW than Pro Tools, the state of funk and it's current relevance in the pop charts, the latest guitar pedals that just came out......"

Prince says there's no danger in current music - well, there's no danger in surrounding yourself with people who think the same way you do.

Yeah, I agree with this too. Although I can give Joshua the benefit of the doubt with the 'I came to Paisley Park and was talking about Jesus for two hours' because originally he came as just a support to Hannah, not on buisnessy stuff.

As for Prince's beliefs at the minute, I'm glad he's let it take a bit more of a backseat. Maybe Josh and Hannah have helped in that area by making him more idk...christian again?? Like he's still JW but he isn't as hardcore on it as he was. Not gonna lie, I much prefer Prince as a Christian than a JW.

I'm agnostic myself so open to a lot of stuff, but I don't enjoy listening to preachy music in the vein of TRC. It's why I love Lovesexy so much, it's not Prince preaching 'you must believe this' it's just him being happy with what he believes and making music inspired by that.

NorthC said:

Plus I don't like people saying "religion has no place in modern society" because that is really just another way of saying that religious people are stupid. [Edited 8/31/15 3:59am] [Edited 8/31/15 4:00am]

Pardon us for being cordial.

Militant said:

Here's the thing - when Josh does an interview and says "I showed up at Paisley Park and me and Prince talked about Jesus for two hours", that's not particularly interesting to me and it's not what I want to hear from someone with such a big stake in the music. I'm an atheist, so you might as well say that you talked about unicorns for two hours.

The sentence I'd like to hear from someone producing Prince would be :

"I showed up at Paisley Park and me and Prince had a two hour conversation about drum machines, analog synthesizers VS virtual instruments, whether Ableton Live is now a better DAW than Pro Tools, the state of funk and it's current relevance in the pop charts, the latest guitar pedals that just came out......"

Prince says there's no danger in current music - well, there's no danger in surrounding yourself with people who think the same way you do.

.

what a dang shame joshua didn't get your notes before the interview. had he done so, he'd likely have pandered to your preferences, and left out his own experiences and opinions

XxAxX said:

KingSausage said:

funkyfine said:

The edgy sexuality has gone, as it probably should from a middle aged man's songs, as has the profanity. All we're left with to provide the passion is religion and, in my opinion, religion doesnt work in music unless its gospel.

But Christian rock doesn't work.... its just weak. And i think that the problem (from my atheist perspective) is that religion has no real place in contemporary western life. We don't need to rely on an omnipotent God to explain the world to us anymore... sure there's a lot we don't understand but much of the unknown about daily life that scared the crap out of mankind through the ages is now understood by science. Now its just a crutch, a safety net that allows people to shelter from the brutality of life. I can see that its important to many people and I think thats a good thing, but when it comes to producing art, I think the safety net that it offers tempers the terror, the beauty, the passion etc that can be felt for life. I think that this passion comes across in a lot of other contemporary music but no longer in Prince's. And I blame his religion.

This post stinks of hypocracy.

Why should you expect Prince to find passion when according to you he is a middle aged man and sexuality and profanity(which was never a passion) should be gone because according 2 U he is OLD. I'm mean he must be ready to die, so why not have passion for God or spirituality since he is obviously on his way out of this world

then you go on to present your issues of atheism and anti-religion. Like Prince is paying you any attention. And like you weren't sing all his 'religious' song when he was so young and edgy.

What in AOA was so 'Christian Rock' ? what in AOA was so religious that it is ruining Prince?

What made 1981-1986 so great?

funkyfine said:

First, I realise that this is going to viewed as antagonistic by some and its genuinely not meant to be, its just my opinion and I wanted to air it.

I really don't think that Prince's religion is doing him any favours anymore when it comes to his music and having an equally zealous Josh producing can't help. Prince's music has always had a strong spiritual element but combined with a profane and sexual element. The passion of religion and sex came through and made his music powerful.

The edgy sexuality has gone, as it probably should from a middle aged man's songs, as has the profanity. All we're left with to provide the passion is religion and, in my opinion, religion doesnt work in music unless its gospel.

I'm not sure why but Gospel, in its unadulterated, unremitting worship, is incredibly powerful and beautiful. Culturally, style of music fits the subject.

But Christian rock doesn't work.... its just weak. And i think that the problem (from my atheist perspective) is that religion has no real place in contemporary western life. We don't need to rely on an omnipotent God to explain the world to us anymore... sure there's a lot we don't understand but much of the unknown about daily life that scared the crap out of mankind through the ages is now understood by science. Now its just a crutch, a safety net that allows people to shelter from the brutality of life. I can see that its important to many people and I think thats a good thing, but when it comes to producing art, I think the safety net that it offers tempers the terror, the beauty, the passion etc that can be felt for life. I think that this passion comes across in a lot of other contemporary music but no longer in Prince's. And I blame his religion.

Bob Dylan found god and his albums suffered. Then he lost his religion and they improved hugely. I don't expect Prince to ever lose his religion but it would be nice if, in addition to God, he could find another passion to channel through his art.

Why are you a Prince fan? Just asking... because he's been making christian rock for 30 years. Did you not pick up on all those subtle references he shoved down everyones throats with a giant red mallet?

Batman and the instrumental albums are the only non-christian albums. Even Batman could be seen as God and the Devil being replaced with Batman and the Joker.

Honestly, 30 years into his career and people are like "Wait a minute... is he into god?"

Prince is more interested in the beliefs of people around him than in their actual talent.

This has been the case for some time now.

Noodled24 said:

funkyfine said:

First, I realise that this is going to viewed as antagonistic by some and its genuinely not meant to be, its just my opinion and I wanted to air it.

I really don't think that Prince's religion is doing him any favours anymore when it comes to his music and having an equally zealous Josh producing can't help. Prince's music has always had a strong spiritual element but combined with a profane and sexual element. The passion of religion and sex came through and made his music powerful.

The edgy sexuality has gone, as it probably should from a middle aged man's songs, as has the profanity. All we're left with to provide the passion is religion and, in my opinion, religion doesnt work in music unless its gospel.

I'm not sure why but Gospel, in its unadulterated, unremitting worship, is incredibly powerful and beautiful. Culturally, style of music fits the subject.

But Christian rock doesn't work.... its just weak. And i think that the problem (from my atheist perspective) is that religion has no real place in contemporary western life. We don't need to rely on an omnipotent God to explain the world to us anymore... sure there's a lot we don't understand but much of the unknown about daily life that scared the crap out of mankind through the ages is now understood by science. Now its just a crutch, a safety net that allows people to shelter from the brutality of life. I can see that its important to many people and I think thats a good thing, but when it comes to producing art, I think the safety net that it offers tempers the terror, the beauty, the passion etc that can be felt for life. I think that this passion comes across in a lot of other contemporary music but no longer in Prince's. And I blame his religion.

Bob Dylan found god and his albums suffered. Then he lost his religion and they improved hugely. I don't expect Prince to ever lose his religion but it would be nice if, in addition to God, he could find another passion to channel through his art.

Why are you a Prince fan? Just asking... because he's been making christian rock for 30 years. Did you not pick up on all those subtle references he shoved down everyones throats with a giant red mallet?

Batman and the instrumental albums are the only non-christian albums. Even Batman could be seen as God and the Devil being replaced with Batman and the Joker.

Honestly, 30 years into his career and people are like "Wait a minute... is he into god?"

and Parade

.

but I agree

I don't get Prince fans who are embarrassed with those early years like Prince Dirty Mind and the wildness

and I don't get Prince fans who act like all he does is sing about the Father Son & Holy Ghost

I mean really -the hypocracy of some people. From Rave Un2 the Joy Fantastic - AOA (leaving Rainbow Children aside for a moment) where are all these religious songs?

Christian Rock? do they mean like the Cross?
This just seems to be a members internal issues with being an atheist and a Prince fan.

KingSausage said:

XxAxX said:

.

what a dang shame joshua didn't get your notes before the interview. had he done so, he'd likely have pandered to your preferences, and left out his own experiences and opinions

Oh, please. That's hardly what Militant was saying. Is your reading comprehension truly that bad, or do you just make a habit out of intentionally misunderstanding people's posts if they express even the slightest bit of criticism? The point is that when Prince has a new musical collaborator, it would be very interesting to hear about their actual musical collaboration. Not shared religious beliefs...or cereals they both like, mutual hobbies, their book club, etc. I don't think that's a tough concept to understand, but maybe I'm giving you too much credit.

.

naw. you're simply not qualified to make the call on what i posted.

OldFriends4Sale said:

Noodled24 said:

Why are you a Prince fan? Just asking... because he's been making christian rock for 30 years. Did you not pick up on all those subtle references he shoved down everyones throats with a giant red mallet?

Batman and the instrumental albums are the only non-christian albums. Even Batman could be seen as God and the Devil being replaced with Batman and the Joker.

Honestly, 30 years into his career and people are like "Wait a minute... is he into god?"

and Parade

but I agree

I don't get Prince fans who are embarrassed with those early years like Prince Dirty Mind and the wildness

and I don't get Prince fans who act like all he does is sing about the Father Son & Holy Ghost

I mean really -the hypocracy of some people. From Rave Un2 the Joy Fantastic - AOA (leaving Rainbow Children aside for a moment) where are all these religious songs?

Christian Rock? do they mean like the Cross?
This just seems to be a members internal issues with being an atheist and a Prince fan.

Or I Would Die 4 U? (Which is probably the most obvious Jesus metaphor he's ever written.)

Genesia said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

and Parade

but I agree

I don't get Prince fans who are embarrassed with those early years like Prince Dirty Mind and the wildness

and I don't get Prince fans who act like all he does is sing about the Father Son & Holy Ghost

I mean really -the hypocracy of some people. From Rave Un2 the Joy Fantastic - AOA (leaving Rainbow Children aside for a moment) where are all these religious songs?

Christian Rock? do they mean like the Cross?
This just seems to be a members internal issues with being an atheist and a Prince fan.

Or I Would Die 4 U? (Which is probably the most obvious Jesus metaphor he's ever written.)

Right that one was very obvious, and we know his intentions for Let's Go Crazy (I guess that is Christian Rock failed too) not to mention 4 the Tears in Your Eyes which goes hand in hand with the them of I Would Die 4 U

God - where the opening lyrics are lifted almost directly from the Christian bible.
Controversy - Where he literally recites the lords prayer... from the christian bible.

30 years later he covers a Christian song "What if" which is far less overtly religious than many of his previous releases, but sees him hailed as a Christian Rocker.

Noodled24 said:

God - where the opening lyrics are lifted almost directly from the Christian bible.
Controversy - Where he literally recites the lords prayer... from the christian bible.

30 years later he covers a Christian song "What if" which is far less overtly religious than many of his previous releases, but sees him hailed as a Christian Rocker.

Maybe, maybe, maybe I could learn to love
If I was just closer to somethin' (closer)
Closer to your higher self
I don't know
Closer to heaven (Maybe) closer to God (closer to God)

Save me Jesus, I've been a fool
How could I forget that you are the rule
You are my God, I am Your child
From now on, for you I shall be wild
I shall be quick I shall be strong
I'll tell Your story, no matter how long (no matter how... no matter)

We're just a play in Your master plan
Now, my Lord I understand

(I understand)

Love is God, God is love
Girls and boys love God above

jaawwnn said:

As far as I can work out if they didn't like God so much Prince wouldn't have hired them in the first place. I don't see how this is on them.

Besides, Prince's stuff is considerably less religious these days than it was 2001-2007 or so.

If you cant see that then....

[Edited 9/1/15 8:30am]

funkyfine said:

First, I realise that this is going to viewed as antagonistic by some and its genuinely not meant to be, its just my opinion and I wanted to air it.

I really don't think that Prince's religion is doing him any favours anymore when it comes to his music and having an equally zealous Josh producing can't help. Prince's music has always had a strong spiritual element but combined with a profane and sexual element. The passion of religion and sex came through and made his music powerful.

The edgy sexuality has gone, as it probably should from a middle aged man's songs, as has the profanity. All we're left with to provide the passion is religion and, in my opinion, religion doesnt work in music unless its gospel.

I'm not sure why but Gospel, in its unadulterated, unremitting worship, is incredibly powerful and beautiful. Culturally, style of music fits the subject.

But Christian rock doesn't work.... its just weak. And i think that the problem (from my atheist perspective) is that religion has no real place in contemporary western life. We don't need to rely on an omnipotent God to explain the world to us anymore... sure there's a lot we don't understand but much of the unknown about daily life that scared the crap out of mankind through the ages is now understood by science. Now its just a crutch, a safety net that allows people to shelter from the brutality of life. I can see that its important to many people and I think thats a good thing, but when it comes to producing art, I think the safety net that it offers tempers the terror, the beauty, the passion etc that can be felt for life. I think that this passion comes across in a lot of other contemporary music but no longer in Prince's. And I blame his religion.

Bob Dylan found god and his albums suffered. Then he lost his religion and they improved hugely. I don't expect Prince to ever lose his religion but it would be nice if, in addition to God, he could find another passion to channel through his art.

Insightful and rational...of course you realize that in being so, this post will get you demonized and attacked in this forum. I commend the intelligence and courage to post it anyway.