Noodled24

No you haven't. When an artist cuts ties with the record company who has supported them since their first demo, then burns through 2 more record companies (along with a failed internet release) citing their lack of promotion as the reason. It's obviously not the record companies who are at fault. WB, EMI & Arista did not put out a Prince album then cross their fingers and hope they lose money on it.

Rereading what you wrote:

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"I suspect he'd made enough enemies and had such a horrific reputation within the industry that nobody was going to go out their way to push Prince."

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"His image made it almost impossible to take him seriously."

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"He was seen as an "act" rather than a musician."

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"He was still able to write commercial sounding songs, but if we're being honest they were few and far between."

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" his image was the problem up until maybe Musicology."

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These are your opinions without facts to back them up. As I said, conjecture. In some cases you seem to be speaking for the rest of the world, music insiders, or the top 40 crowd. However, these really are just your take.

It'd be kind of like that spinal tap joke if the UK was an obscure country in Asia. It's his second biggest market. The numbers aren't as big as the states but the exposure that comes from it is big not just in the UK but often mirrored throughout Europe.
Undoubtably WB had the most invested in Prince. He was with them the longest and by all accounts moved mountains to accomodate his whim and fancy. EMI not so much, but Aristia, I think they went all in with RAVE.

All I am saying is that Emancipation wasn't the having the kind of success that Prince had had with WB. Two top 20 singles in the UK is an achievement for Prince (who was basically on his own) at that point.

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Arista may have started by going "all in with Rave", but check out the history of Clive Davis....that whole company went through a shitstorm a few weeks/months into the promotion of Rave. Not saying this was Arista's fault, but it may not have been Prince's either.

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Bottom Line: Arista Records was not the same company that put out Santana's Supernatural just a short time earlier by the time they were involved with Rave.

Eminem literally still wears jeans and a tshirt. Celebrity began to change. Music was increasingly becoming "real". Prince just looked old hat next to a new breed. People were looking to the new millennium and Prince was reviving a concept from the 80's.

Yeah, but is Eminem really your example of pop stars being more "down to earth?"

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Secondly, when was Prince really dressed and acting like "other celebrites"? Even in the 80's he was the weird one that didn't do interviews or participate in "We Are The World." The only reason Prince looked like others in the 80's is when people started trying to look like Prince. Where do you think Madonna got her leather and lace vibe?

It's not just my take. You can see the trend on the charts. He went from having relatively easy access into the UK top 20 singles. To barely cracking the top 50.
Sure Prince has always had a kind of wacky dress sense. But at a time when celebrities were trying to be seen as normal people Prince was more aloof than ever, talking about "Prince" and "" as if they were two different people.

And this is because, after 20 years of Prince being a freak, the record buying public just realized it in 1999? My whole point is that Prince started "stalling" on the charts because he was without a major label that was majorly invested.

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Again, Prince was ALWAYS viewed as being weird. I mean, this was the 90's you are talking about. It's not like he released a sex book or was accused of molesting children. Prince was less aloof in the 90's/2000's by a long shot. Compare his 1985/6 MTV interview with his spot on Oprah or Larry King or Leno or the Today show. The best example is the VH1 interview with Chris Rock. Prince was about as chatty and "down to earth" as he was gonna get in his career by the late 90's.

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Look at 1994. "The Most Beautiful Girl in The World" was released at THE height of Grunge and Gangsta Rap and Prince was looking (perhaps) the most androgynous and pink ever. That song was a ballad and it was a MONSTER hit. That flies in the face of your claim that Prince's image was the problem.

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Why wasn't the rest of the material ready to go to immediately follow that song up? Because Prince and WB couldn't stop pissing on each other to give The Gold Experience a proper release. Because TMBGITW was a one off with Bellmark records that let Prince have free reign and $$$ to play the game.

Fair shout. But thats one pic from one night, and it's a suit rather than a onezie*. Again I'm not trying to pin it on that outfit as being the reason for his decline on the charts. I'm just saying it didn't help.

I think his image in general was a big problem. Nobody could relate to him. He was 40? Offering a pop fluff album with no real substance, the only theme was "guest stars". He was turning up to do TV with gold dust in his hair and sparkly makeup on. The story then wasn't "Prince releases new album". It was "I met Prince and he's not as weird as you might think". It all looked dated and old hat.

I just don't agree. Prince was always dressing like Prince. When did he not have gold dust and sparkly makeup? Like, somehow he was more tame in the 80's? You did see the Lovesexy era outfits right? You did see the assless lace pants of 1991? He didn't dress like a b-boy in '88, why would he dress like Eminem in '99?

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The farther we go, I am sensing that you may just generally have distain for the Rave era. More power to you, but I just don't think Prince was doing anything drastically different than he had before.

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Also, it's easy to type things like, "a pop fluff album with no substance", but I doubt your typing it while listening to "I love U, but I don't trust you anymore", because that's basically the of the opposite of what you just claimed.

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*The shiny blue Rave suit was a two piece outfit, not a onesie. Top and bottoms brother.

He was pushing ballads - TGRES is a great song (for someone else). He picked it as the lead single and when it came time to perform it live - he was singing over a keyboard loop and dancing about a bit. It was dull. Thats fine if you're Britney or Justin. Prince wasn't being seen as a musician but a dated balladeer.

Again, conjecture. Seen by whom? This is your viewpoint. Totally valid, but you don't speak for the masses.

Again, don't get me wrong because I think it was during his promotion for RAVE that he performed "Motherless Child" - which is hands down legendary. But it's very telling performance. There is another performance where he kicks into TGRES and then stops and changes the song like he was bored of his own single. There was also a strong element of having been crowned "His royal badness" he'd become "Mr Middle of the road"

Okay. I see your point. However, I still maintain that Prince's image/style/sound wasn't the problem with getting a "hit" post 1995. That image/style/sound was basically gonna always be Prince. The problem with Prince not getting a hit post 1995 was the fact that he shit all over his record label. The facts about WB and Prince are very well documented. The relationships with EMI and Arista are not.

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Bottom line: It's hard to basically be an independant artist (of any kind) and have big box office. From music, to film, to books...you have to have the machine and promotion and timing behind you....no matter how much talent you have.

[Edited 1/8/15 21:26pm]

According to the book Possessed by Alex Hahn, Prince was frustrated and annoyed by Clive Davis' decisions for the lead single and predictions to the press after Prince let Clive Davis make the key decisions in promotion and annoucements and single choices for Rave Un2 the Joy Fantasic. Instead of picking the lively upbeat "So Far, So Pleased" rock duet with Gwen Stefani, Clive Davis decided the slow paced R&B ballad "The Greatest Romance Ever Sold" should be the lead single. Clive Davis even predicted to the press that the ballad was going to be "number one all over the world." Prince watched Clive Davis' single choice flop and Prince's album tank, which made it look like Prince was aiming for the "number one all over the world" and couldn't make strong enough music anymore capable of getting the "number one all over the world." Prince felt irritated, Prince then criticized Clive Davis' decisions and told him to release a second single. That offended Clive Davis by what he saw as disrespectful and insulting pressure tactics. Clive Davis retorted, "I thought you were different from what I've read about you. Everybody warned me." Clive Davis told Arista to just wind down their Prince promotional efforts. Clive Davis had bigger problems by that point, being replaced as president at Arista by Antonio "LA" Reid.

But Prince hadn't completely abandoned the album material, on the Rave Un2 the Year 2000 DVD Prince did have "Rave Un2 the Joy Fantasic" playing on the DVD menu, he had the music video clip he had agreed to make for "The Greatest Romance Ever Sold" on the DVD, and he even played "Baby Knows" during the New Years Eve concert, even thought Sheryl Crow wasn't even there on New Years Eve for her part in the duet on the song. Gwen Stefani, Ani DiFranco, Chuck D, and Eve didn't join the New Years Eve concert, either, and their song duets were not played, so instead Prince focused mostly on his solo classics (but still avoiding some of his biggest hits like "Little Red Corvette", "Delrious", "When Doves Cry", "I Would Die 4 U", "Sign O' the Times", "Alphabet St.", "Batdance", "Cream", "7", "The Most Beautiful Girl in the World", etc.), instead he did a cover of Jimi Hendrix's classic "Red House", and duets with Lenny Kravitz on Lenny's cover of the classic "American Woman" and Lenny's hit "Fly Away". George Clinton showed up and played Flashlight and danced with a young girl as the band did a freeform loose funky jam with Prince on bass, The Time showed up and did their classic hits "The Bird" and "Jungle Love", and Sly and the Family Stone members (without Sly), showed up and did their classics "Everyday People" and "Higher" and "It's Alright."

On the One Nite Alone tour Prince regularly played "Rainbow Children", "The Work", "Muse 2 The Pharaoh", "Mellow", "1+1+1 Is 3", "The Other Side Of The Pillow", "Family Name" and "The Everlasting Now" from the Rainbow Children album. "The Work" Prince played on the Tonight Show, too.

On his recent concerts he's most often played "Funknroll", "Plectrumelectrum", "Fixurlifeup", "Marz", and "Pretzelbodylogic" from the Plectrumelectrum album and "Breakfast Can Wait" from the Art Official Age album, apparently favoring the Plectrumelectrum songs to play live, plus he's played "Screwdriver" a lot. On Saturday Night Live he played “Marz" and "Anotherlove" from the Plectrumelectrum album and "Clouds" from the Art Official Age album, again apparently favoring the Plectrumelectrum songs to play live. Prince played "Pretzelbodylogic" on New Girl, too, as well as that cute little "Fallinlove2nite" duet with Zooey.

Noodled24 said:

On the RAVE DVD I count two songs from the RAVE album. TGRES and Baby Knows. Pretty Man was played on TFI Friday (I think). There might be a couple of others. Not many though, and certainly not frequently.
Yes during the One Night Alone Tour he was playing a lot of rarely played songs, and quite a bit from the Rainbow Children. TRC he was clearly very proud of. What about the other albums since then.

[Edited 1/9/15 3:49am]

skywalker said:

"I suspect he'd made enough enemies and had such a horrific reputation within the industry that nobody was going to go out their way to push Prince."

-

"His image made it almost impossible to take him seriously."

-

"He was seen as an "act" rather than a musician."

-

"He was still able to write commercial sounding songs, but if we're being honest they were few and far between."

-

" his image was the problem up until maybe Musicology."

-

These are your opinions without facts to back them up. As I said, conjecture. In some cases you seem to be speaking for the rest of the world, music insiders, or the top 40 crowd. However, these really are just your take.

Google it. There are plenty of executives who have gone on record as saying Prince was a nightmare to work with. Not to mention the video production company Prince made bankrupt because he didn't pay them. (also check out the next post in this thread with a quote from Clive Davis)

Look at the performances of TGRES - It was a 40 year old dude in a shiney blue suit singing over a keyboard loop. People weren't seeing him and thinking wow what a musician.

Commercial songs are only commercial if they sell. Thats the definition of commercial. You can't have a commerical song if it's not being bought. By the end of the year 1999 Prince wasn't having hit singles anymore.

His image being repaired by Musicology - sure thats speculation on my part - simply because he still hasn't had a hit song since.

All I am saying is that Emancipation wasn't the having the kind of success that Prince had had with WB. Two top 20 singles in the UK is an achievement for Prince (who was basically on his own) at that point.

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Arista may have started by going "all in with Rave", but check out the history of Clive Davis....that whole company went through a shitstorm a few weeks/months into the promotion of Rave. Not saying this was Arista's fault, but it may not have been Prince's either.

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Bottom Line: Arista Records was not the same company that put out Santana's Supernatural just a short time earlier by the time they were involved with Rave.

Maybe not but the record was complete before Clive Davis left. Prince got sold by Clive into believing they could use marketing tricks to reclaim Princes audience of past.

Yeah, but is Eminem really your example of pop stars being more "down to earth?"

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Secondly, when was Prince really dressed and acting like "other celebrites"? Even in the 80's he was the weird one that didn't do interviews or participate in "We Are The World." The only reason Prince looked like others in the 80's is when people started trying to look like Prince. Where do you think Madonna got her leather and lace vibe?

RE: Eminem. Yes of course he did. He was making music people could relate to. People were putting his CD on and saying "wow he's like me". It may well have been fictional but it was presented as "real" - note the speech marks.

The 80's were all about costumes. You've already mentioned Madonna, but also the likes of Boy George, Adam Ant etc etc. In the 80s Prince wasn't the only person walking around wearing funny looking clothes. Fast forward to 1999 and he was the only person doing that.

And this is because, after 20 years of Prince being a freak, the record buying public just realized it in 1999? My whole point is that Prince started "stalling" on the charts because he was without a major label that was majorly invested.

No of course they didn't suddenly realize it. By 1999 it looked old hat is what I'm saying.

Are you claiming that no independant (and Prince wasn't at this time an indie artist) has ever had a hit single because they didn't have a big label pushing them?

Again, Prince was ALWAYS viewed as being weird. I mean, this was the 90's you are talking about. It's not like he released a sex book or was accused of molesting children. Prince was less aloof in the 90's/2000's by a long shot. Compare his 1985/6 MTV interview with his spot on Oprah or Larry King or Leno or the Today show. The best example is the VH1 interview with Chris Rock. Prince was about as chatty and "down to earth" as he was gonna get in his career by the late 90's.

True he was always seen as weird. But in the 80s and early 90s so were many other big pop stars. By 1999 being seen as "weird" was no longer a good thing. If Jay-Z had jumped into that jumpsuit do you think anyone would have taken him seriously? And you're right to balk at the mention of Jay-Z - but that just underscores the way music and by proxy the nature of celebrity had changed.

Look at 1994. "The Most Beautiful Girl in The World" was released at THE height of Grunge and Gangsta Rap and Prince was looking (perhaps) the most androgynous and pink ever. That song was a ballad and it was a MONSTER hit. That flies in the face of your claim that Prince's image was the problem.

My entire claim is that by the year 1999 Prince's image was past it's sell by date. You're talking about a song that came 5 years earlier. Prince had ten top 40 UK singles since TMBGITW. When TMBGITW was release gangsta rap was no where near it's peak. Rap barely features in the charts at the time - http://www.officialcharts...994-04-09/

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Why wasn't the rest of the material ready to go to immediately follow that song up? Because Prince and WB couldn't stop pissing on each other to give The Gold Experience a proper release. Because TMBGITW was a one off with Bellmark records that let Prince have free reign and $$$ to play the game.

Fine. But I've never said his career was in trouble with TGE. It performed ok and he had 3 UK top 20 singles from the album and arguably could have had more. He was in the charts regularly until RAVE was released.

You seem to believe this was purely due to WB? despite he'd left them 4 years earlier, and continued to hit the top 20 with singles from that album. RAVE was the first time Prince put out an album and the single stalled at #60-something.

Plenty of indie artists have managed to get themselves on the charts with a great song. WB may have said to someone at MTV "hey stop playing Prince" - although there is no evidence of this at all. Prince performed on ten different tv shows throughout Europe to promote RAVE... the promotional machine was in full force.

Prince's image at the time looked dated. He was releasing ballads that didn't translate well to live performances on TV. The album was full of pop songs but Princes audience had grown up.

I just don't agree. Prince was always dressing like Prince. When did he not have gold dust and sparkly makeup? Like, somehow he was more tame in the 80's? You did see the Lovesexy era outfits right? You did see the assless lace pants of 1991? He didn't dress like a b-boy in '88, why would he dress like Eminem in '99?

Again, you're ignoring the fact that in the 80's everyone was flashy. He was weird but he was also dressing like his contemporaries. Fast Forward to 1999 and he was not.

The farther we go, I am sensing that you may just generally have distain for the Rave era. More power to you, but I just don't think Prince was doing anything drastically different than he had before.

Exactly. Prince was stuck firmly in the past.

Also, it's easy to type things like, "a pop fluff album with no substance", but I doubt your typing it while listening to "I love U, but I don't trust you anymore", because that's basically the of the opposite of what you just claimed.

Ok so put that on the pile of decent songs.... Silly game? Where ever you go? strange but true? sun moon and stars? Everyday is a winding road? The fluff outweighs the decent songs by a lot. Is there a concept? Does the album go anywhere? does it cover any new ground?

Okay. I see your point. However, I still maintain that Prince's image/style/sound wasn't the problem with getting a "hit" post 1995. That image/style/sound was basically gonna always be Prince. The problem with Prince not getting a hit post 1995 was the fact that he shit all over his record label. The facts about WB and Prince are very well documented. The relationships with EMI and Arista are not.

Not once have I said it was a problem post 1995. He had TEN UK top 40 hits between 1994 and 1999.
You're right there isn't much documented about EMI or Arista. But it is clear from what we do know that Arista got behind RAVE in a big way. Prince Promoted the fuck out of that record like never before. TEN TV gigs thoughout Europe - but you're saying RAVE didn't have a promotional push?

Bottom line: It's hard to basically be an independant artist (of any kind) and have big box office. From music, to film, to books...you have to have the machine and promotion and timing behind you....no matter how much talent you have.

So in your opinion no independant artist has ever had a hit single? - and Prince wasn't even an indie artist, he was all over TV and Press promoting RAVE.

The trend is crystal clear. Gold had hit singles. Emancipation had hit singles. RAVE killed his chart career stone dead. He didn't get a hit song from that album and he hasn't had a hit song since that album. http://www.officialcharts.../_/prince/

[Edited 1/9/15 11:10am]

rudeboynpg said:

According to the book Possessed by Alex Hahn, Prince was frustrated and annoyed by Clive Davis' decisions for the lead single and predictions to the press after Prince let Clive Davis make the key decisions in promotion and annoucements and single choices for Rave Un2 the Joy Fantasic. Instead of picking the lively upbeat "So Far, So Pleased" rock duet with Gwen Stefani, Clive Davis decided the slow paced R&B ballad "The Greatest Romance Ever Sold" should be the lead single. Clive Davis even predicted to the press that the ballad was going to be "number one all over the world." Prince watched Clive Davis' single choice flop and Prince's album tank, which made it look like Prince was aiming for the "number one all over the world" and couldn't make strong enough music anymore capable of getting the "number one all over the world." Prince felt irritated, Prince then criticized Clive Davis' decisions and told him to release a second single. That offended Clive Davis by what he saw as disrespectful and insulting pressure tactics. Clive Davis retorted, "I thought you were different from what I've read about you. Everybody warned me." Clive Davis told Arista to just wind down their Prince promotional efforts. Clive Davis had bigger problems by that point, being replaced as president at Arista by Antonio "LA" Reid.

"Everybody warned me" - suggesting that within the industry Prince had a terrible reputation.

So Far So Pleased - wasn't released because Stefani's record company wouldn't OK it for fear it would hurt sales of their (at the time) soon to be released album.

Now - Read the interview you quoted from back in the 80's about how easy Prince thought he could get a hit song. About how he "gave them away to other people"... and compare that to how he handed over control of the RAVE album to Clive allowing him to pick the lead single. The boastful confidence was gone and Prince was desperate for a hit song.

But Prince hadn't completely abandoned the album material, on the Rave Un2 the Year 2000 DVD Prince did have "Rave Un2 the Joy Fantasic" playing on the DVD menu, he had the music video clip he had agreed to make for "The Greatest Romance Ever Sold" on the DVD, and he even played "Baby Knows" during the New Years Eve concert, even thought Sheryl Crow wasn't even there on New Years Eve for her part in the duet on the song. Gwen Stefani, Ani DiFranco, Chuck D, and Eve didn't join the New Years Eve concert, either, and their song duets were not played, so instead Prince focused mostly on his solo classics (but still avoiding some of his biggest hits like "Little Red Corvette", "Delrious", "When Doves Cry", "I Would Die 4 U", "Sign O' the Times", "Alphabet St.", "Batdance", "Cream", "7", "The Most Beautiful Girl in the World", etc.), instead he did a cover of Jimi Hendrix's classic "Red House", and duets with Lenny Kravitz on Lenny's cover of the classic "American Woman" and Lenny's hit "Fly Away". George Clinton showed up and played Flashlight and danced with a young girl as the band did a freeform loose funky jam with Prince on bass, The Time showed up and did their classic hits "The Bird" and "Jungle Love", and Sly and the Family Stone members (without Sly), showed up and did their classics "Everyday People" and "Higher" and "It's Alright."

Yep... 2 songs from an album with 15 songs.

On the One Nite Alone tour Prince regularly played "Rainbow Children", "The Work", "Muse 2 The Pharaoh", "Mellow", "1+1+1 Is 3", "The Other Side Of The Pillow", "Family Name" and "The Everlasting Now" from the Rainbow Children album. "The Work" Prince played on the Tonight Show, too.

On his recent concerts he's most often played "Funknroll", "Plectrumelectrum", "Fixurlifeup", "Marz", and "Pretzelbodylogic" from the Plectrumelectrum album and "Breakfast Can Wait" from the Art Official Age album, apparently favoring the Plectrumelectrum songs to play live, plus he's played "Screwdriver" a lot. On Saturday Night Live he played “Marz" and "Anotherlove" from the Plectrumelectrum album and "Clouds" from the Art Official Age album, again apparently favoring the Plectrumelectrum songs to play live. Prince played "Pretzelbodylogic" on New Girl, too, as well as that cute little "Fallinlove2nite" duet with Zooey.

Yes. Prince was really into PlectrumElectrum. It shows from the way he got out and played it. Same with The Rainbow Children. He was totally into that album. How about 3121? Planet Earth? 20ten? Lotusflow3r?... He wasn't feeling them quite so much.

Noodled24 said:

All good points. I feel as if we can agree to disagree on this. Good chat. One last question:

- Are you basically are fine with Prince's career/choices except for the Rave era? I ask only because you make good defense arguments for everything before and after that era.

skywalker said:

terrig said:

charting 2 albums. 30 years after purple rain=commercial clout imo.

show up out of nowhere, boom: snl - network tv then poof disappear when you feel like it=CLOUT.

Yep.

That is all there is to that. Name someone who was on no 1 in the early 80s who can turn around and have 2 top charting albums in 2014. No one can do this but PRINCE. He doesnt need commercial clout. He is caked out. He is pulling more for on performance than most artist make in a year. He is a point of refenence now. He has transcended commercial clout, charts, and all that music business shit that has nothing to do with true artistry and genius.

jaawwnn said:

Prince may be a wonderful musician, but business man he is not. He is an artist who has lost touch of what is fans desire. Yeah some of us want another Purple Rain, and some want another Sign O the Times but what we are gonna get is his next step. Yes the last 5 bums have bummed me out big time but during that time we got Rock and Roll Affair and I have played it silly. Every now and again I find the Prince I miss. Hold your breath my friends..

1. The music.

2. He's old.

3. The gays lost interest

4. Extremly uninteresting interviews

5. This is a tie between incompetent use of the Internet and Indie business practices, and his overall treatment of his fanbase--I mean, seriously: Prince.org and housequake were the best way to get the message out, yet he's done nothing but threaten these two cites, housequake finally throwing in the towel.

skywalker said:

Noodled24 said:

So in your opinion no independant artist has ever had a hit single? - and Prince wasn't even an indie artist, he was all over TV and Press promoting RAVE.

The trend is crystal clear. Gold had hit singles. Emancipation had hit singles. RAVE killed his chart career stone dead. He didn't get a hit song from that album and he hasn't had a hit song since that album. http://www.officialcharts.../_/prince/

[Edited 1/9/15 11:10am]

All good points. I feel as if we can agree to disagree on this. Good chat. One last question: - Are you basically are fine with Prince's career/choices except for the Rave era? I ask only because you make good defense arguments for everything before and after that era.

The thread is about why Prince lost his commercial clout. I think RAVE is the reason or at least it was a big miscalculation causing a lot of damage. I think thats backed up by his presence in the charts stopping dead. He's never really recovered. I just don't buy into the record company conspiricy theory.

I quite like the album in retrospect. There are more misses than hits and I think IN2 (the remix album) is better than UN2 simply because of the nastygirl mix of hotwithu. But you can drop that nastygirl chorus into any song and bring it to life. Beautiful strange is a strong keeper too. Even the title track has more life to it. I think the live performance of Motherless Child is one of Prince's all time career highlights. His diva image just looked dated compared to what else was going on.

Noodled24 said:

skywalker said:

Noodled24 said: All good points. I feel as if we can agree to disagree on this. Good chat. One last question: - Are you basically are fine with Prince's career/choices except for the Rave era? I ask only because you make good defense arguments for everything before and after that era.

The thread is about why Prince lost his commercial clout. I think RAVE is the reason or at least it was a big miscalculation causing a lot of damage. I think thats backed up by his presence in the charts stopping dead. He's never really recovered. I just don't buy into the record company conspiricy theory.

I quite like the album in retrospect. There are more misses than hits and I think IN2 (the remix album) is better than UN2 simply because of the nastygirl mix of hotwithu. But you can drop that nastygirl chorus into any song and bring it to life. Beautiful strange is a strong keeper too. Even the title track has more life to it. I think the live performance of Motherless Child is one of Prince's all time career highlights. His diva image just looked dated compared to what else was going on.

I completely agree. Some of his worst style was during the RAVE era. Was very out of touch with what was in especially during the 99-2000 era. He looked laughable. Looked like a smurf dressed in blue tights.

I'm not sure which was worse during the RAVE era, the fashion or the music...

Prince was damaged goods before Rave. It's silly to blame Rave for his drop in sales. Part of the reason Rave sold so few copies is nobody but hardcore Prince gave two fuzzy shits. They would've been hard pressed to say a new Prince album was even coming out. The entire decade was a slow, steady drop on the charts. From the heights of D&P to the lows of 1999: The New Master.

Before anyone accuses me of being a Princr hater, I love Rave. Always have.

KingSausage said:

Prince was damaged goods before Rave. It's silly to blame Rave for his drop in sales. Part of the reason Rave sold so few copies is nobody but hardcore Prince gave two fuzzy shits. They would've been hard pressed to say a new Prince album was even coming out.

Look at the charts (what this thread is about). Prince was still having a lot of success on the singles charts throughout Europe up until 1999. RAVE was the first album Prince put out that truely bombed. #47 was it's highest position in the UK Chart. The first and only single #60 something.

Prince did 10 TV apperences in Europe to promote the album, and plenty of press. Plus it was 1999 and the Prince song 1999 had been played to death that year. People knew the album was out.

The entire decade was a slow, steady drop on the charts. From the heights of D&P to the lows of 1999: The New Master. Before anyone accuses me of being a Princr hater, I love Rave. Always have.

Most of his success was in the early half of the decade. But he was still having hit singles right up until 1999. I don't think RAVE is a terrible album, there are 5 or 6 good songs, but it's Prince doing manufactured pop. Following a formula to get a hit, and it backfired horribly.

[Edited 1/9/15 18:21pm]