feeluupp said:

It's strange whenever Prince wants to go commercial, the music always turns out subpar.

The extra promotional outputs most argueably are for the albums:

Diamonds & Pearls

Emancipation

Rave Un2 The Joy Fantastic

Musicologoy

with D&P being a major succes selling 6.7M worldwide, and Musicology being a modest success for selling over 2.5M worldwide... The music on on those 4 albums by most fans are average or below average records...

But whenever he releases GENIUS records, the general public isn't "sophisticated" enough to appreciate and understand it. Example, Sign O' The Times which sold just over 1 million copies in the U.S.

All the albums were meant to be "commercial". Every single one of them. What album did Prince put some type of artistic integrity before commerce. He's piggybacked every trend in music since the 1970's. Seriously... what are you talking about?

feeluupp said:

It's strange whenever Prince wants to go commercial, the music always turns out subpar.

The extra promotional outputs most argueably are for the albums:

Diamonds & Pearls

Emancipation

Rave Un2 The Joy Fantastic

Musicologoy

with D&P being a major succes selling 6.7M worldwide, and Musicology being a modest success for selling over 2.5M worldwide... The music on on those 4 albums by most fans are average or below average records...

But whenever he releases GENIUS records, the general public isn't "sophisticated" enough to appreciate and understand it. Example, Sign O' The Times which sold just over 1 million copies in the U.S.

I totally agree!

funksterr said:

feeluupp said:

It's strange whenever Prince wants to go commercial, the music always turns out subpar.

The extra promotional outputs most argueably are for the albums:

Diamonds & Pearls

Emancipation

Rave Un2 The Joy Fantastic

Musicologoy

with D&P being a major succes selling 6.7M worldwide, and Musicology being a modest success for selling over 2.5M worldwide... The music on on those 4 albums by most fans are average or below average records...

But whenever he releases GENIUS records, the general public isn't "sophisticated" enough to appreciate and understand it. Example, Sign O' The Times which sold just over 1 million copies in the U.S.

All the albums were meant to be "commercial". Every single one of them. What album did Prince put some type of artistic integrity before commerce. He's piggybacked every trend in music since the 1970's. Seriously... what are you talking about?

You think everyone is trying to be commercial all the time and you equate commercial success with quality. That is so strange to me.

funksterr said:

feeluupp said:

It's strange whenever Prince wants to go commercial, the music always turns out subpar.

The extra promotional outputs most argueably are for the albums:

Diamonds & Pearls

Emancipation

Rave Un2 The Joy Fantastic

Musicologoy

with D&P being a major succes selling 6.7M worldwide, and Musicology being a modest success for selling over 2.5M worldwide... The music on on those 4 albums by most fans are average or below average records...

But whenever he releases GENIUS records, the general public isn't "sophisticated" enough to appreciate and understand it. Example, Sign O' The Times which sold just over 1 million copies in the U.S.

All the albums were meant to be "commercial". Every single one of them. What album did Prince put some type of artistic integrity before commerce. He's piggybacked every trend in music since the 1970's. Seriously... what are you talking about?

Some type of artistic integrity?

Now this is what I'm talking about. Read that post and wonder to yourself:What is this all about?

Prince was just piggybacking on every trend slavisly praying at the altar of commerce y'all.

Graycap23 said:

Pentacle said:

2024. "Ah, cute, granpa Prince is back in town, with his Purple Rain variety show!"

"Gross, singing all those dirty songs... Doesn't he have a few other ones?"

"Yeah, but they most of them aren't very good."

"Ah, well I don't know then. Let's go see Miley Cyrus. She's cleaned up her act since her third bout of syfilis."

Prince is close to 60 years old.

No friends, no wife, no kids. He has more important issues than the nonsense being stated in this thread.

How do you know prince has no friends? his inner circle is incredibly private.

paulludvig said:

funksterr said:

All the albums were meant to be "commercial". Every single one of them. What album did Prince put some type of artistic integrity before commerce. He's piggybacked every trend in music since the 1970's. Seriously... what are you talking about?

You think everyone is trying to be commercial all the time and you equate commercial success with quality. That is so strange to me.

Not 100% of the time. Industry politics can play a role. There are many unpredictable factors like an act breaking up or someone passing on. But generaly speaking those are rare instances. For example, "The Black Album" was canceled, then officially released years later. Undertandably, it didn't sell huge numbers.

But yeah, the music is a commercial product. It's supposed to sell. Sales often times indicate cultural impact, which can also indicate quality.

If a record is selling it's quality, in some way.

feeluupp said:

It's strange whenever Prince wants to go commercial, the music always turns out subpar.

The extra promotional outputs most argueably are for the albums:

Diamonds & Pearls

Emancipation

Rave Un2 The Joy Fantastic

Musicologoy

with D&P being a major succes selling 6.7M worldwide, and Musicology being a modest success for selling over 2.5M worldwide... The music on on those 4 albums by most fans are average or below average records...

But whenever he releases GENIUS records, the general public isn't "sophisticated" enough to appreciate and understand it. Example, Sign O' The Times which sold just over 1 million copies in the U.S.

Again more reasons, why your thread is a lox and mine is a hit. Sign sold 1.2 million copies in the states, but what about the 2 million sold outside it. You know the USA, has 330 million people, the rest of the world has 6.8 billion, meaning the USA makes up under 5% of the world's population, so what happens to his records there is not the be all and end all.

.

All you prove is that Americans are unsophisticated and uncultured when albums like 1999, SOTT, Parade and Lovesexy are relative flops there while they are #1's and colossal hits in Europe and Australasia, mainly as we don't mind gay, female, black or stranger people as artists, where as with you guys its all rap, boyband idol pop or country that sells well.

.

The general public outside of America is sophisticated enough to understand it and make it hits, Lovesexy was #1 in my country. The main reason those four albums you mentioned sold well in the USA, was because they were crowding pleasing stuff that Americans like. They have no problem with maudling inoffensive pop music that does not stretch their two digit IQ's too far, where as us with triple digit IQs generally saw them as average at best.

[Edited 1/2/15 17:28pm]

Adorecream said:

feeluupp said:

It's strange whenever Prince wants to go commercial, the music always turns out subpar.

The extra promotional outputs most argueably are for the albums:

Diamonds & Pearls

Emancipation

Rave Un2 The Joy Fantastic

Musicologoy

with D&P being a major succes selling 6.7M worldwide, and Musicology being a modest success for selling over 2.5M worldwide... The music on on those 4 albums by most fans are average or below average records...

But whenever he releases GENIUS records, the general public isn't "sophisticated" enough to appreciate and understand it. Example, Sign O' The Times which sold just over 1 million copies in the U.S.

Again more reasons, why your thread is a lox and mine is a hit. Sign sold 1.2 million copies in the states, but what about the 2 million sold outside it. You know the USA, has 330 million people, the rest of the world has 6.8 billion, meaning the USA makes up under 5% of the world's population, so what happens to his records there is not the be all and end all.

.

All you prove is that Americans are unsophisticated and uncultured when albums like 1999, SOTT, Parade and Lovesexy are relative flops there while they are #1's and colossal hits in Europe and Australasia, mainly as we don't mind gay, female, black or stranger people as artists, where as with you guys its all rap, boyband idol pop or country that sells well.

.

The general public outside of America is sophisticated enough to understand it and make it hits, Lovesexy was #1 in my country. The main reason those four albums you mentioned sold well in the USA, was because they were crowding pleasing stuff that Americans like. They have no problem with maudling inoffensive pop music that does not stretch their two digit IQ's too far, where as us with triple digit IQs generally saw them as average at best.

[Edited 1/2/15 17:28pm]

Yeah! All these threads about album sales and chart positions show there is a great divide between american and european fans. To me as a european this obsession with sales is a bit off-putting and dare I say vulgar.

[Edited 1/3/15 16:53pm]

Aerogram said:

funksterr said:

All the albums were meant to be "commercial". Every single one of them. What album did Prince put some type of artistic integrity before commerce. He's piggybacked every trend in music since the 1970's. Seriously... what are you talking about?

Some type of artistic integrity?

Now this is what I'm talking about. Read that post and wonder to yourself:What is this all about?

Prince was just piggybacking on every trend slavisly praying at the altar of commerce y'all.

I don't recall any instance of Prince putting out an album with the intention of it not selling big numbers.

When disco was hot, Prince made disco.
When funk was hot, Prince made funk.
When gangsta rap was hot, Prince made gangsta rap.

When grunge was hot, Prince made grunge.

When neo soul was hot, Prince made neo soul.

When autotune got hot, Prince started using autotune.

He was often late to the trend, but never the less he tried to cash in. And that's wat he's supposed to do. Prince is a popstar and popstars are supposed to sell records.

funksterr said:

Adorecream said:

KingSausage said:

Adorecream said:

Again more reasons, why your thread is a lox and mine is a hit. Sign sold 1.2 million copies in the states, but what about the 2 million sold outside it. You know the USA, has 330 million people, the rest of the world has 6.8 billion, meaning the USA makes up under 5% of the world's population, so what happens to his records there is not the be all and end all.

.

All you prove is that Americans are unsophisticated and uncultured when albums like 1999, SOTT, Parade and Lovesexy are relative flops there while they are #1's and colossal hits in Europe and Australasia, mainly as we don't mind gay, female, black or stranger people as artists, where as with you guys its all rap, boyband idol pop or country that sells well.

.

The general public outside of America is sophisticated enough to understand it and make it hits, Lovesexy was #1 in my country. The main reason those four albums you mentioned sold well in the USA, was because they were crowding pleasing stuff that Americans like. They have no problem with maudling inoffensive pop music that does not stretch their two digit IQ's too far, where as us with triple digit IQs generally saw them as average at best.

[Edited 1/2/15 17:28pm]

It's very unfortunate that those albums didn't sell more copies in the U.S. However, to say Americans are culturally unsophisticated is just stupid. After all, Prince is American. In addition, because Prince is American, looking at his album sales in his home country is totally legitimate. It's not the whole story, true. But it's a valid perspective.

I'm going 2 have to agree with his comment. They appreciate this talent much more oversees.

i think #1 should be "his songs got stale". Write catchy fun songs, perform them with energy, people notice.

[Edited 1/2/15 18:49pm]

Graycap23 said:

KingSausage said:

Graycap23 said:

I'm going 2 have to agree with his comment. They appreciate this talent much more oversees.

His post was offensive and overly generalizing. The same points could be made in a less offensive manner.

The Truth.........has no agenda.

KingSausage said:

N.E.W.S. There's no way he expected that piece of shit to sell.

Hmm, that was around the time Najee and Prince stopped working toegther? It ended badly, iirc. Prince is competitive. Knowing Prince, he figured he could get at least do Najee's numbers. Get some of that Najee-money,lol.

According to Wikipedia, though, that shit was a hit?!? :

"The album is reportedly the lowest-selling Prince album released to date, with just 30,000 copies sold, but it did become a top ten hit on the Billboard Internet sales chart, and garnered a Grammy nomination for "Best Pop Instrumental Performance". http://en.wikipedia.org/w...e_album%29

Go 'head Prince! Worst selling album of career/Top Ten Hit and Grammy Nom. Prince just stay winning.

prince does not need to be all over the charts with airplay all over the world. i like him where he is. his albums still sound the same. he has always has segues and stupid voices on his albums. prince albums have to be heard and not listened to.

Prince should join the circus. He can have a funny little act, where he comes out driving a little mini clown car or a tricycle. And while his awful music is playing in the background, he can do a clown act, like juggling or tumble around and honk a little horn. That's what prince is now anyway. A circus clown. Just a short, pushing 60 funny little circus clown.

He makes a fool out of himself anyway with his music, so why not join the circus and be the clown that he is?

[Edited 1/3/15 10:10am]

Pentacle said:

Thank God I grew up in the 20th century when there were no gays or Arabs making music.

And if you're producing music for a niche audience, then segues etc. are par of the course, right?Affirmation 3 is the only thing I liked on AOA. But I don't think this is what kills his commercial appeal.

In all begins with music and songs. Yes, he loves performing in front of an audience. But in general it's always the old songs and for good reason. He might be spiritually growing, but apparently he knows it's not showing in his music.

[Edited 12/30/14 2:18am]

You should be banned. Homohobic & racist all in one. Momma must be proud.

Gunsnhalen said:

KingSausage said:

Gunsnhalen said:

You should be banned. Homohobic & racist all in one. Momma must be proud.

Nah. He was being sarcastic to point out the ridiculousness of the earlier claim that nobody gay or of Arabic descent was making music in the 20th century.

Ahh! sorry then Pentacle. I won't lie i didn't read the whole thing by adorecream i'll take the L on this one.

funksterr said:

Aerogram said:

Some type of artistic integrity?

Now this is what I'm talking about. Read that post and wonder to yourself:What is this all about?

Prince was just piggybacking on every trend slavisly praying at the altar of commerce y'all.

I don't recall any instance of Prince putting out an album with the intention of it not selling big numbers.

When disco was hot, Prince made disco.
When funk was hot, Prince made funk.
When gangsta rap was hot, Prince made gangsta rap.

When grunge was hot, Prince made grunge.

When neo soul was hot, Prince made neo soul.

When autotune got hot, Prince started using autotune.

He was often late to the trend, but never the less he tried to cash in. And that's wat he's supposed to do. Prince is a popstar and popstars are supposed to sell records.

Simplistic and awfully reductive. If Prince's goal was always to sell the most records, he would have continued building on his For You/Prince fanbase by releasing a glossy follow up, instead he released Dirty Mind -- you say he made disco when it was hot, then funk, then gangsta rap, I see you don't mention he created a little trend called the Minneapolis sound that fits nicely between "funk" and "gangsta rap".

What about ATWIAD and Lovesexy, both were deliberately less accessible musically, he knew those records were not likely to sell as well to the same masses he conquered with PR. He moved away from his own widely copied sound, releasing quirky records instead while others reaped the sales that he could have made if he stayed commercially focused.

With Batman and especially after GB, Prince was certainly more commercially invested, especially with Diamonds and Pearls and the Symbol Album. TGE, Emancipation, Rave, Musicology, 3121 and Planet Earth, 20TEN and Art Official Age were all made to please and sell well, but not TRC, NEWS, ONA piano, The Truth.

He can't do it for free, he's got an infrastructure to maintain, engineers and band members to pay. Post Rave, he often aimed only for modest sales that would still be profitable in his business model -- hence why he didn't make many expensive videos and kept his cost low. He has little talent for being massively commercial, all of his most obvious commercial attempts were lower tier albums (particularly Batman, Diamonds and Pearls, Emancipation and Rave). With Musicology, 3121 and Art Official Age, he stayed true to his legacy while remaining gracefully accessible.

Prince is more than a mere pop star, he's one of the greatest musicians alive and has the discography to prove he was far from just chasing trends, anyone who knows anything about music history should know as much and clearly you don't.

therat said:

therat said:

Prince should join the circus. He can have a funny little act, where he comes out driving a little mini clown car or a tricycle. And while his awful music is playing in the background, he can do a clown act, like juggling or tumble around and honk a little horn. That's what prince is now anyway. A circus clown. Just a short, pushing 60 funny little circus clown.

He makes a fool out of himself anyway with his music, so why not join the circus and be the clown that he is?

[Edited 1/3/15 10:10am]

How sad you get off posting belittling hatred about someone you clearly detest. There are better ways to spend your time.

Aerogram said:

therat said:

Prince should join the circus. He can have a funny little act, where he comes out driving a little mini clown car or a tricycle. And while his awful music is playing in the background, he can do a clown act, like juggling or tumble around and honk a little horn. That's what prince is now anyway. A circus clown. Just a short, pushing 60 funny little circus clown.

He makes a fool out of himself anyway with his music, so why not join the circus and be the clown that he is?

[Edited 1/3/15 10:10am]

How sad you get off posting belittling hatred about someone you clearly detest. There are better ways to spend your time.

The-RAT........need u know any more?

warning2all said:

therat said:

Prince should join the circus. He can have a funny little act, where he comes out driving a little mini clown car or a tricycle. And while his awful music is playing in the background, he can do a clown act, like juggling or tumble around and honk a little horn. That's what prince is now anyway. A circus clown. Just a short, pushing 60 funny little circus clown.

He makes a fool out of himself anyway with his music, so why not join the circus and be the clown that he is?

[Edited 1/3/15 10:10am]

Those assinine gold sunglasses, followed by the 3 eyes glasses. The out of control afro. The suits ditched for the tacky 3rd eye costumes. The embarrassing interviews, the attacks on fans, "real music by real musicians" without strong songs to back it up. SNL appearance without his guitar plugged in. Love sex, that's my jam. 2 flop albums and pulling the plug on social media interactions. Yes its more a circus act than anything. Time to reassess for Prince.

Superficial -- glasses, hair style, clothes, the unplugged guitar, Lovesex, if that's what bugged you, then there's always Bruno Mars.

Aerogram said:

Simplistic and awfully reductive. If Prince's goal was always to sell the most records, he would have continued building on his For You/Prince fanbase by releasing a glossy follow up, instead he released Dirty Mind -- you say he made disco when it was hot, then funk, then gangsta rap, I see you don't mention he created a little trend called the Minneapolis sound that fits nicely between "funk" and "gangsta rap".

I see you didn't deny what I said was true. I'm not sure if there is anyone in the history of music, maybe Weird AL Yankovic and his parody/comedy albums, who has trend-jummped as much as Prince. Certainly not any musician as capable as he is.

Dirty Mind was an attempt to bust out of the R&B trap of the times and SELL MORE as a rock freakshow act. It didn't work out. Controversy is that polished followup you mentioned earlier. The Minneapolis Sound IS funk.

What about ATWIAD and Lovesexy, both were deliberately less accessible musically, he knew those records were not likely to sell as well to the same masses he conquered with PR. He moved away from his own widely copied sound, releasing quirky records instead while others reaped the sales that he could have made if he stayed commercially focused.

ATWIAD features two Top Ten singles, Raspberry Beret and Pop Life. Are you saying that was unexpected? Neither single strays particularly far from the Minneapolis Sound and other records that were hot at the time. At most they grow the sound a bit with string synth sounds. But Prince, and W&L, have said many times that ATWIAD was completed before Purple Rain even came out.

LoveSexy features a #1 Pop hit single in Alphabet St. The quirky sound of LoveSexy was based on trends popular in Europe at the time and Prince's attempt, as a popstar trend-setter, to capitalize on them in the US, FIRST. He didn't expect a flop. He expected a HUGE hit.

As for Prince choosing not to capitalize on the Minneapolis Sound. That is simply not true. He grew the sound as he saw fit, however, other people developed and refined their own versions too, and at a certain point, it simply got past him. Other people begin to make better versions. Particularly Ready For The World, Babyface and Jam and Lewis. By 1985, they were making more popular Minneapolis Sound records than Prince. And so what? James Brown fired Bootsy and Catfish and they went on to grow funk music as Funkadelic with George Clinton and James Brown, the originator, could no longer keep up. Pretty much ended his run.

With Batman and especially after GB, Prince was certainly more commercially invested, especially with Diamonds and Pearls and the Symbol Album. TGE, Emancipation, Rave, Musicology, 3121 and Planet Earth, 20TEN and Art Official Age were all made to please and sell well, but not TRC, NEWS, ONA piano, The Truth.

Did those records even happen? LOL. Honestly, only TRC and The Truth are attempts to make a statement, and even then, it's not like he had better options. His most recent commercial albums had been flops to the point he was trying to garner any excitement he could around his music.

He can't do it for free, he's got an infrastructure to maintain, engineers and band members to pay.

He doesn't need Paisley. Recording studios are pretty much a thing of the past. Considering what the records sound like when they are released. Considering he never uses the soundstage for movies or videos. He plays and performs everything himself. He could replace all that with a laptop.

Post Rave, he often aimed only for modest sales that would still be profitable in his business model -- hence why he didn't make many expensive videos and kept his cost low. He has little talent for being massively commercial, all of his most obvious commercial attempts were lower tier albums (particularly Batman, Diamonds and Pearls, Emancipation and Rave). With Musicology, 3121 and Art Official Age, he stayed true to his legacy while remaining gracefully accessible.

Uhhmm no. Too many problems with those statements. I can't deal with them all. Prince has sold what 100 million albums or so, but you say he has little talent for being massively commercial. *sigh*

Prince is more than a mere pop star, he's one of the greatest musicians alive and has the discography to prove he was far from just chasing trends, anyone who knows anything about music history should know as much and clearly you don't.

A popstar is the pinnacle of success. Everybody in music wants to be #1 Pop. No major label on Earth is releasing music hoping it won't sell much. They churn that shit out trying to make money. The "art" label doesn't cut it.

Why can't we just agree - americans are a bunch of vulgarians who only cares about money and chart positions?

paulludvig said:

Why can't we just agree - americans are a bunch of vulgarians who only cares about money and chart positions?

Prince is an American. And guess what he spent most of the 90's writing songs about? Money and sales.

Gunsnhalen said:

KingSausage said:

Gunsnhalen said: Nah. He was being sarcastic to point out the ridiculousness of the earlier claim that nobody gay or of Arabic descent was making music in the 20th century.

Ahh! sorry then Pentacle. I won't lie i didn't read the whole thing by adorecream i'll take the L on this one.

Yes, KingSausage called it right. I'm just surprised no-one else took notice of that particular line in the OP's post.