leonche64 said:

skywalker said:

I didn't miss the point. I thought we already covered it. - Generally, Purple Rain is considered, even by the most stubborn music fan, Prince's "rock epic". The album as well as the song. Stevie, as much as I love him, doesn't come close to playing rock music or being a rock star. Prince, by all accounts, does and is. - Now, you still haven't defined what you consider the "rock community" to be. I suspect that it's not a group of actual rock musicians (like Dave Grohl, or Robert Plant both of whom adore/respect Prince as a rock musician). Hell, Foo Fighters covered Darling Nikki...arguably another of Prince's "rock epics."I also suspect it's not credible rock journalists who have constantly rank Prince with the likes of Hendrix and Santana and have been doing so since Prince was in bikini briefs. - Maybe you have different definition of what the "rock community" and a "rock epic" are? [Edited 11/13/14 7:52am] [Edited 11/13/14 7:54am]

I think we are confusing terms here. Prince gets mad props from the rock community as a guitar player. No one says he plays rock music. Prince plays Prince music. The fact that he was playing lead guitar in an era of synthesizers confused many people. Rock star is a generic term regardless of genre. Change the lyrics to "Darling Nicky" and it does not make it out of the 80's. The main line is a keyboard riff. "Jump" by Van Halen was released the same year. Also has a keyboard line as the main hook. Do you think those two songs belong in the same genre? Earlier post, it was put forth that Plectrum Electrum was a rock album. It ain't. It is a Prince album. World on Fire, by Slash is a rock album.

rusty1 said:

I've been a fan since 1984..Prince hasn't Been relevant since 1987..I might give him up to "Diamonds & Pearls"..I will once again say 1979 to 87 was his most prolific & Legendary era.

So you've been hanging on since 1987, maybe 1991? That's at least 23 years.

Wow. What are you waiting for? The Revolution reunion?

LOL!! I love the fans - you are on Prince.org in the Prince forum - who say he isn't relevant since the 1980's. It's 2014. By coming here, you are saying the exact opposite of your post.

"I don't like his last 23 or so albums, but I'll post on an "Online Fan Community" dedicated to the artist I think sucks". Not going to look it up, but isn't that the definition of irrelevance?

...That's not to say I love every song or video he's ever done. There are whole albums I've listened to more than five times (NPS, Come, Rave, etc) but I wouldn't be here- or listen to his music - if I didn't think he was still making great CD's(AOA, Lotusflower, 3121) and one of the best live performers on Earth.

XNY said:

rusty1 said:

I've been a fan since 1984..Prince hasn't Been relevant since 1987..I might give him up to "Diamonds & Pearls"..I will once again say 1979 to 87 was his most prolific & Legendary era.

So you've been hanging on since 1987, maybe 1991? That's at least 23 years.

Wow. What are you waiting for? The Revolution reunion?

LOL!! I love the fans - you are on Prince.org in the Prince forum - who say he isn't relevant since the 1980's. It's 2014. By coming here, you are saying the exact opposite of your post.

"I don't like his last 23 or so albums, but I'll post on an "Online Fan Community" dedicated to the artist I think sucks". Not going to look it up, but isn't that the definition of irrelevance?

...That's not to say I love every song or video he's ever done. There are whole albums I've listened to more than five times (NPS, Come, Rave, etc) but I wouldn't be here- or listen to his music - if I didn't think he was still making great CD's(AOA, Lotusflower, 3121) and one of the best live performers on Earth.

To go off of this, TMBGITW reached the top of the charts in 94. And then of coarse, the name change, which completely which not only shocked the industry, but changed it. P was one of the first major artists who sold music through the internet, which once again.. completely changed how music is distributed..

So no, you can't really say Prince hasn't been "relevant" since D&P.

leonche64 said:

skywalker said:

leonche64 said:

I think we are confusing terms here. Prince gets mad props from the rock community as a guitar player. No one says he plays rock music. Prince plays Prince music. The fact that he was playing lead guitar in an era of synthesizers confused many people. Rock star is a generic term regardless of genre. Change the lyrics to "Darling Nicky" and it does not make it out of the 80's. The main line is a keyboard riff. "Jump" by Van Halen was released the same year. Also has a keyboard line as the main hook. Do you think those two songs belong in the same genre? Earlier post, it was put forth that Plectrum Electrum was a rock album. It ain't. It is a Prince album. World on Fire, by Slash is a rock album.

Are we not just talking semantics? Sure, Let's Go Crazy is most definitely a Prince song. It also fits the definition of a rock song.

It certainly does.

Pentacle said:

pdiddy2011 said:

Tbo, I don't get the Paul McCartney praise. He has insane longevity, but...

Just to keep it simple: first listen to Kamasutra.

Take a few aspirins.

Then listen to Standing Stone.

Absolutely correct. Paul wins eaily in that respect. Prince doesn't have the discipline or attention span to study classical music with the depth it would take to even be called proficient.

pdiddy2011 said:

I don't think anyone has been BETTER than Prince, as far as popular music goes.

If Stevie Wonder and Paul McCartney are considered as forerunners to the question, it has to be noted that they dropped down quite a peg in their "old age" just as Prince has been accused of. We can't look at them with Rose-colored glasses on as though they were at their peak for 40 years.

Tbo, I don't get the Paul McCartney praise. He has insane longevity, but...

Stevie is definitely worthy, but he stuck with his mostly only one genre for his whole career. He was excellent at it, I know. But when you think Stevie, you pretty much are stuck in RnB or Soul. You think Prince, you can be in RnB, Soul, Rock, Jazz, Dance, etc.

And I wouldn't even consider Michael Jackson - even though I am a BIG fan. He didn't write most of his stuff and I believe most of his biggest hits were written by someone else. And obviously, he didn't have much to do with playing any music. I do admit, though, he was EXCELLENT at what he did.

To clear a few things up, Prince does RnB, Soul and Dance very well. At times he even puts rock-sounding guitar solos on top. Prince does not rock convincingly and he in no way has a grip on jazz. He can make faux jazzy sounds, but he has yet to demonstrate even slight proficiency in jazz.

Graycap23 said:

skywalker said:

leonche64 said: Are we not just talking semantics? Sure, Let's Go Crazy is most definitely a Prince song. It also fits the definition of a rock song.

It certainly does.

Yes, one of his very few that do.

steakfinger said:

Graycap23 said:

It certainly does.

Yes, one of his very few that do.

The nice things about Prince..............a little bit of everything, plus his own style.

Can't beat that with a stick.

steakfinger said:

pdiddy2011 said:

I don't think anyone has been BETTER than Prince, as far as popular music goes.

If Stevie Wonder and Paul McCartney are considered as forerunners to the question, it has to be noted that they dropped down quite a peg in their "old age" just as Prince has been accused of. We can't look at them with Rose-colored glasses on as though they were at their peak for 40 years.

Tbo, I don't get the Paul McCartney praise. He has insane longevity, but...

Stevie is definitely worthy, but he stuck with his mostly only one genre for his whole career. He was excellent at it, I know. But when you think Stevie, you pretty much are stuck in RnB or Soul. You think Prince, you can be in RnB, Soul, Rock, Jazz, Dance, etc.

And I wouldn't even consider Michael Jackson - even though I am a BIG fan. He didn't write most of his stuff and I believe most of his biggest hits were written by someone else. And obviously, he didn't have much to do with playing any music. I do admit, though, he was EXCELLENT at what he did.

To clear a few things up, Prince does RnB, Soul and Dance very well. At times he even puts rock-sounding guitar solos on top. Prince does not rock convincingly and he in no way has a grip on jazz. He can make faux jazzy sounds, but he has yet to demonstrate even slight proficiency in jazz.

Disagree. Every one is entitled to their opinion, but this is way off. From Bambi, to Little Red Corvette, to Let's Go Crazy, to Peach, to Chaos and Disorder, to Screwdriver, to SNL two weeks ago, Prince has convincingly rocked time and again. You make it sound like Prince's rock songs are song like Jungle Love...a funk song with Jesse Johnson guitar solo thrown on top. That's usually not the case.

-

There will always be a group of classic rockers and metalheads who don't "accept" an androgynous black man who also plays Funk, etc. as a "rocker", but that's been the case since Prince was pelted with bullshit when he opened for The Stones. Are you letting the falsetto fool you too?

-

Lastly, Rock N' Roll itself is such a loose and undefinable term that I don't think anyone (musician, fan, or critic) gets to actually decide what is rock and what does rock. That's up to you, the listener. If you don't think Prince rocks convincingly...great. That doesn't make you right....just entitled to your opinion.

[Edited 11/13/14 18:18pm]

skywalker said:

steakfinger said:

skywalker said:

leonche64 said:

I think we are confusing terms here. Prince gets mad props from the rock community as a guitar player. No one says he plays rock music. Prince plays Prince music. The fact that he was playing lead guitar in an era of synthesizers confused many people. Rock star is a generic term regardless of genre. Change the lyrics to "Darling Nicky" and it does not make it out of the 80's. The main line is a keyboard riff. "Jump" by Van Halen was released the same year. Also has a keyboard line as the main hook. Do you think those two songs belong in the same genre? Earlier post, it was put forth that Plectrum Electrum was a rock album. It ain't. It is a Prince album. World on Fire, by Slash is a rock album.

Are we not just talking semantics? Sure, Let's Go Crazy is most definitely a Prince song. It also fits the definition of a rock song.

That's my point. We are not talking about semantics. We are talking about different things. Guitar does not automatically equal rock music. It is about the structure, and design of the song. There is a similarity of music that puts it into a genre. I am going to disagree with Let's Go Crazy is a rock song. Nothing about it makes it similar to any rock song of that era. The intro, the main riff, the vocals...all set it out as something else. The song definitely rocks, as an adjective, but not as a noun. As humans, we have a need to group things, so we look for the closest fit. We know what section to buy a Stevie record, Elton John, Bowie, etc. Prince makes Prince records. He is in that box by himself.

skywalker said:

Disagree. Every one is entitled to their opinion, but this is way off. From Bambi, to Little Red Corvette, to Let's Go Crazy, to Peach, to Chaos and Disorder, to Screwdriver, to SNL two weeks ago, Prince has convincingly rocked time and again.

Lastly, Rock N' Roll itself is such a loose and undefinable term that I don't think anyone (musician, fan, or critic) gets to actually decide what is rock and what does rock.

Now we get to the semantic part. I agree that Prince rocks hard, Prince is a rock star. But that does not mean he plays rock music. Adjectives vs nouns.

And to further confuse the issue, Rock N' Roll and Rock are not the same thing.

pdiddy2011 said:

And I wouldn't even consider Michael Jackson - even though I am a BIG fan. He didn't write most of his stuff and I believe most of his biggest hits were written by someone else. And obviously, he didn't have much to do with playing any music. I do admit, though, he was EXCELLENT at what he did.

That's false.Michael wrote most of his biggest hits ("Don't Stop Til' You Get Enough","Beat It","Billie Jean").The latter,in fact,became his signature song.

rusty1 said:

I've been a fan since 1984..Prince hasn't Been relevant since 1987..I might give him up to "Diamonds & Pearls"..I will once again say 1979 to 87 was his most prolific & Legendary era.

I would extend it to 1988 and also throw in '93-94 but since then, he has tarnished his legacy but not producting great work. It's not his fault and I'm sure he tried but just doesn't have it him...getting older sux.

datdude said:

I agree that Stevie is the closest, as far as range, longetivity, talent on an instrument, and songwriting, but where's Stevie's rock epic!?

Stevie doesn't need to do a "rock epic".He already excels at the type of music that he makes.Songs In The Key Of Life is my absolute favorite album.I think it's great that Prince plays alot of different styles,but that doesn't mean that he excels at each one.

For me,there is no "best" artist in music.I have a ton of favorites.Different artists move me in different ways.That's what so fun about music....you can listen to many different people,and enjoy all of them.

oh jeez

here we go again

it's all relative

it's all about space and time

the word "better" has what meaning?

Beautifulstarr123 said:

HatrinaHaterwitz said:

http://www.billboard.com/...ts-most-no

Hot 100: Top 100 Artists

1	THE BEATLES
2	MADONNA
3	ELTON JOHN
4	ELVIS PRESLEY
5	MARIAH CAREY
6	STEVIE WONDER
7	JANET JACKSON
8	MICHAEL JACKSON
9	WHITNEY HOUSTON
10	THE ROLLING STONES
11	PAUL MCCARTNEY/WINGS
12	BEE GEES
13	CHICAGO
14	USHER
15	RIHANNA
16	THE SUPREMES
17	DARYL HALL JOHN OATES
18	PRINCE

I'm sorry, but not feeling that list

.....who does not belong to this list?

who r ... Rihanna and Usher?

chriss said:

SoulAlive said:

pdiddy2011 said:

And I wouldn't even consider Michael Jackson - even though I am a BIG fan. He didn't write most of his stuff and I believe most of his biggest hits were written by someone else. And obviously, he didn't have much to do with playing any music. I do admit, though, he was EXCELLENT at what he did.

That's false.Michael wrote most of his biggest hits ("Don't Stop Til' You Get Enough","Beat It","Billie Jean").The latter,in fact,became his signature song.

I dont understand why so many people dismiss MJ because he didn't "play an instrument" , although that is true, he was a composer, he heard music in his mind and vocally recorded what sounds/rhythms he wanted the music to have.

& most of his biggest hits were actually written by him. "Don't Stop Till You Get Enough", "Wanna Be Startin Something" , "Beat It" , "Billie Jean" , "Bad" , "The Way You Make Me Feel", "I Just Can't Stop Loving You" , "Dirty Diana" , "Smooth Criminal" , "Black or White" etc..

dm3857 said:

SoulAlive said:

That's false.Michael wrote most of his biggest hits ("Don't Stop Til' You Get Enough","Beat It","Billie Jean").The latter,in fact,became his signature song.

I dont understand why so many people dismiss MJ because he didn't "play an instrument" , although that is true, he was a composer, he heard music in his mind and vocally recorded what sounds/rhythms he wanted the music to have.

& most of his biggest hits were actually written by him. "Don't Stop Till You Get Enough", "Wanna Be Startin Something" , "Beat It" , "Billie Jean" , "Bad" , "The Way You Make Me Feel", "I Just Can't Stop Loving You" , "Dirty Diana" , "Smooth Criminal" , "Black or White" etc..

U answered your own question.

HatrinaHaterwitz said:

datdude said:

i'm sorry but where is Bob Dylan's Housequake or James Brown's Dinner With Delores, Hendrix's Do Me Baby or Joni's Anne Christian?? So for me, on litmus test is depth/range. Dude really does cover all genres short of classical with proficiency at lhe least and genius at best, with lots of "middle of the range" stuff others would die to have in their catalogue. Answer is no for me

where is prince Like A Rolling Stone .. Voodoo Chile .. It's A Man's World or even Papa Don't Take No Mess .. or prince River .. this is classic music that never ages .. prince has a couple few songs that hold up to the all time greats .. but they all have just as many as prince if not more ..

Prince, from the alternate universe where he never met Larry Graham, is much better than the Prince we know now.

daingermouz2020 said:

daingermouz2020 said:

HatrinaHaterwitz said:

Oh hell! Now y'all have got him doing country, too!

Didn't prince write some country tunes 4 Kenny Rogers and also perform some and C&D?

Graycap23 said:

TrevorAyer said: