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PrintableIn support of my line of argument, why did Prince release the ONA Live package as he did? It was not the stellar collection he could have made it, but it was enough to keep the fans satisfied. The NPGMC operates in much the same way. He knows that just as much as we do. There's a reason for all of this, and that is commercial sense (according to Prince). | |
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JohnnyTheFox said: The only shocking thing about "Crap & Dung" is how shockingly bad it is.
exactly. i tried and i tried 2 like this album, but it don't work out. it's just a throwaway effort. p coulda made his relationship with warners go out with a bang, but not this... ...it wuz more like a bubble-wrap bang.  | |
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Anji said: In support of my line of argument, why did Prince release the ONA Live package as he did? It was not the stellar collection he could have made it, but it was enough to keep the fans satisfied. The NPGMC operates in much the same way. He knows that just as much as we do. There's a reason for all of this, and that is commercial sense (according to Prince). Very Interesting Take.mistermaxxx | |
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mistermaxxx said: Anji said: In support of my line of argument, why did Prince release the ONA Live package as he did? It was not the stellar collection he could have made it, but it was enough to keep the fans satisfied. The NPGMC operates in much the same way. He knows that just as much as we do. There's a reason for all of this, and that is commercial sense (according to Prince). Very Interesting Take.What do you think, maxxx? | |
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Actually, IMO C&D is under-produced, which accidentally means that several tracks kick-ass. I love his over-produced stuff too, don't get me wrong...but it's all good.
Except for Right the Wrong. Fear is the mind-killer. | |
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Anji said: mistermaxxx said: Anji said: In support of my line of argument, why did Prince release the ONA Live package as he did? It was not the stellar collection he could have made it, but it was enough to keep the fans satisfied. The NPGMC operates in much the same way. He knows that just as much as we do. There's a reason for all of this, and that is commercial sense (according to Prince). Very Interesting Take.What do you think, maxxx? mistermaxxx | |
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mistermaxxx said: Anji said: mistermaxxx said: Anji said: In support of my line of argument, why did Prince release the ONA Live package as he did? It was not the stellar collection he could have made it, but it was enough to keep the fans satisfied. The NPGMC operates in much the same way. He knows that just as much as we do. There's a reason for all of this, and that is commercial sense (according to Prince). Very Interesting Take.What do you think, maxxx? As much as people argue the laws of 'normal' business practises, the 'appeal' that Prince's artistry conjures, will always be sufficient to support his business ventures such as the NPGMC. All he has to do, for example, is produce a great album, such as The Rainbow Children, from time to time. | |
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I like your characterization of this album, Anji. It really does start out with some promise (first 4 tracks) and then proceeds to unravel into another misguided vault release that has little heart or soul. And the rock at times does have bite, but at other times it just plain bites.
There just isn’t any great material here, although perhaps there are a couple of tracks (“I like It There” , “Dinner with Delores”) that could’ve bloomed into greatness had they been surrounded by stronger material and a more cohesive, inspired concept. And the mix of the serious and the comical on this album are as ill-fitted as a polka dot tie and striped shirt, especially on the inside joke “Right the Wrong”. Overall the record comes across to me like a less inspired version of “Batman”. But did Prince actually sabotage his own art? I don’t think that he would ever release shit just to get out of his contract, but it seems clear to me that he was not putting his best artistic foot forward. I think had the “Chaos & Disorder” sessions been much more fruitful he would’ve either held onto the project for his own release and/or removed that warning label from the artwork. To make an analogy, “Chaos & Disorder” is Prince’s term paper for a class in college that he didn’t enjoy. He wanted to write something that he wouldn’t be embarrassed to put his name on, but after he signed his name the perfectionist in him couldn’t help but include a note to his professor explaining that given more time and interest his paper would’ve knocked people on their asses. But the guy is so damned talented that he did manage to in a few short weeks create a rather fun CD for driving to the park on a Sunday afternoon with the top down. But when I get to the park I pull out the primo material so that I don’t get abused by the other park goers. I guess you could say “I Like It There”, but only there. | |
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Brendan said: I like your characterization of this album, Anji. It really does start out with some promise (first 4 tracks) and then proceeds to unravel into another misguided vault release that has little heart or soul. And the rock at times does have bite, but at other times it just plain bites.
You've just summed it up perfectly, Brendan. Excellent post!There just isn’t any great material here, although perhaps there are a couple of tracks (“I like It There” , “Dinner with Delores”) that could’ve bloomed into greatness had they been surrounded by stronger material and a more cohesive, inspired concept. And the mix of the serious and the comical on this album are as ill-fitted as a polka dot tie and striped shirt, especially on the inside joke “Right the Wrong”. Overall the record comes across to me like a less inspired version of “Batman”. But did Prince actually sabotage his own art? I don’t think that he would ever release shit just to get out of his contract, but it seems clear to me that he was not putting his best artistic foot forward. I think had the “Chaos & Disorder” sessions been much more fruitful he would’ve either held onto the project for his own release and/or removed that warning label from the artwork. To make an analogy, “Chaos & Disorder” is Prince’s term paper for a class in college that he didn’t enjoy. He wanted to write something that he wouldn’t be embarrassed to put his name on, but after he signed his name the perfectionist in him couldn’t help but include a note to his professor explaining that given more time and interest his paper would’ve knocked people on their asses. But the guy is so damned talented that he did manage to in a few short weeks create a rather fun CD for driving to the park on a Sunday afternoon with the top down. But when I get to the park I pull out the primo material so that I don’t get abused by the other park goers. I guess you could say “I Like It There”, but only there. | |
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Anji said: fairmoan said: I think viewing Chaos and Disorder through the prism of Prince's contractual dispute has caused many to underestimate it (myself included). It's a great beast of an album, and its live band ethic gives it a vitality lacking in Prince's work for several years thereafter. I think if "I Will" and "Into the Light" were featured on any other album they would rightly be considered classics. The top end of the album is equally superb-- I Like It There simply lifts the roof off the house. But C&D is unfortunately tainted by the feeling that it was merely designed to fulfil contractual obligations, and however much one would like to think that their opinion of the music is influenced solely by its inherent merits, the aura and myths surrounding a release can effect the way one approaches it. I think that's partly why the critical response Prince received to both this album and Come was so poor. From the contractual fallout and Prince's increasingly erratic behaviour a common narrative had emerged that Prince was on the decline as an artist. The fact that both of these albums were presented with little or no conviction created the impression that they were works of little or no conviction. But in the end I don't think any recording artist attempts to release material of sub-par quality. Prince has always been prolific and I think the only difference in the C&D period was that he had the pretext for simply ignoring the interests of his record label (in terms of the marketing cycle). Come and C&D (I exclude Gold because at the time he did *appear* more committed to that project-- ironically enough I think it's the worst of the lot, though by no means bad) are certainly better than the albums that followed them, yet these albums were created in the era of artistic freedom(?) While I would never say C&D is my favourite album, I do think a very rich vein in Prince's discography has been ignored in part for reasons other than the music.
Comparing the C&D sound to the output that followed (Emancipation, for example) is neither here nor there, that was not the sound he wanted to create with records between '96-'99.
[This message was edited Thu Mar 20 4:03:43 PST 2003 by fairmoan] Yes, but I think from a musical standpoint alone New Power Soul sounds more tossed off than anything from the Come-C&D era. | |
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fairmoan said: Anji said: fairmoan said: I think viewing Chaos and Disorder through the prism of Prince's contractual dispute has caused many to underestimate it (myself included). It's a great beast of an album, and its live band ethic gives it a vitality lacking in Prince's work for several years thereafter. I think if "I Will" and "Into the Light" were featured on any other album they would rightly be considered classics. The top end of the album is equally superb-- I Like It There simply lifts the roof off the house. But C&D is unfortunately tainted by the feeling that it was merely designed to fulfil contractual obligations, and however much one would like to think that their opinion of the music is influenced solely by its inherent merits, the aura and myths surrounding a release can effect the way one approaches it. I think that's partly why the critical response Prince received to both this album and Come was so poor. From the contractual fallout and Prince's increasingly erratic behaviour a common narrative had emerged that Prince was on the decline as an artist. The fact that both of these albums were presented with little or no conviction created the impression that they were works of little or no conviction. But in the end I don't think any recording artist attempts to release material of sub-par quality. Prince has always been prolific and I think the only difference in the C&D period was that he had the pretext for simply ignoring the interests of his record label (in terms of the marketing cycle). Come and C&D (I exclude Gold because at the time he did *appear* more committed to that project-- ironically enough I think it's the worst of the lot, though by no means bad) are certainly better than the albums that followed them, yet these albums were created in the era of artistic freedom(?) While I would never say C&D is my favourite album, I do think a very rich vein in Prince's discography has been ignored in part for reasons other than the music.
Comparing the C&D sound to the output that followed (Emancipation, for example) is neither here nor there, that was not the sound he wanted to create with records between '96-'99.
[This message was edited Thu Mar 20 4:03:43 PST 2003 by fairmoan] Yes, but I think from a musical standpoint alone New Power Soul sounds more tossed off than anything from the Come-C&D era. | |
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I agree. *~* +*+ *?*
 If your Thirsty, I can be Friday, we can go out Saturday for a Sunday.  | |
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Like the cover said: CONTRACTUAL OBLIGATION.
It shows and you can hear it. Prince was too obsessed with his dispute to release a killer album, let alone to be able to produce one more. | |
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I like Dig U Better Dead!
and Had U. Everything else is too boring. My art book: http://www.lulu.com/spotl...ecomicskid
VIDEO WORK: http://sharadkantpatel.com MUSIC: https://soundcloud.com/ufoclub1977 | |
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C*R*A*P | |
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Believe it or not, someone I know became seriously interested in Prince's music last year after hearing this CD for the very first time.
Go figure... . "You don't frighten us, English pig dogs. Go and boil your bottoms, sons of a silly person." | |
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giotto said: Believe it or not, someone I know became seriously interested in Prince's music last year after hearing this CD for the very first time.
:LOL:Go figure... . | |
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Thats
what Good Music does! 
Shocks U ! Rocks U ! F.. | |
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I actually really rate this album. It is totally enjoyable!
Even Right the Wrong. | |
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gooeythehamster said: Anji said: I Rock, Therefore I Am. Prince embraces ragga? I mean, what the fuck This of course was Rosie's influence. Her love for reggea made Prince record lots of ragga styled songs. How do you know that? Did Prince say that in an interview that I missed? | |
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THERAPY!!! 
  | |
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It's true that  did not put forth his best effort on C&D, but it's certainly the case that much of this material would have seen release even if he had not been in dispute with WB.
For instance: Zannalee: this song was played live quite often in 1995-1996, and he like it enough to record three versions of it. Into the Light: he included it in his 9/11 ahdio show next to songs he considers classics like Anna Stesia, Holy River, Still Would Stand All Time, Love Thy Will Be Done, etc. I Will: same as above Dinner With Delores: he actually promoted the single by performing it live on the Today Show... which his WB contract did not require. Had he wanted to distance himself from the C&D release, he could have previewed his upcoming Emancipation material instead (which WB could not have prevented under his contract). No Candy 4 Me | |
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Anji said: I was shocked when I first heard Chaos & Disorder, and not because I thought it represented 'thowaway' material; that attitude came later. My surprise was initially due to its very raw and angry nature...
Chaos & Disorder, the title track, literally screamed at me and those heartbeats at the end of the track mirrored mine; I was shocked. The opening chords and voice to I Like It There sounded beautiful, and the guitar and those screams built the song into a veritable monster. Again, I was shocked, I guess in a good way, but I wasn't sure whether things were quite right. A great segue into the gorgeously midtempo Dinner With Delores and I was in familiar, pop territory. Thank God! All of a sudden, The Same December leapt in, somewhat abruptly, and delivered yet another gorgeous melody. I was reeling with more energy and enthusiasm but then Right The Wrong came on and I was floored. I didn't know whether to put the volume up or to simply chuck the CD out the window. His initial, affected voice was sickening but not in a Camille kind of way. In its defense, the band still sounded excellent and the verses were okay, but the chorus kept jabbing at me, 'Right The Wrong, Right The Wrong.' A very welcome reprieve as Zannalee rocked around the corner and we were back on track. So far, I understood the album had a mix of angst-ridden, self-congratulatory and comical lyrics, the latter epitomised by Zannalee's final gesture, ' See you tomorrow, big ass.' I couldn't see the humour, not yet. I Rock, Therefore I Am. Prince embraces ragga? I mean, what the fuck?! I kept thinking, 'Prince, look, you may be black, but you still ain't black. Don't mess with this shit!' The scratches, the beat, even the lyrics, were agreeable and catchy in the album's context, but Steppa Ranks was pushing me to the limit. What should have been welcome relief with the admittedly soulful, Into The Light, just made me think I was listening to Dolphin's ugly, artificial sister. That said, I liked the saxophone work. I Will plodded along, and whilst the guitar was pleasant enough, this really wasn't I Wish U Heaven. Oh man, Dig U Better Dead. I mean, where the fuck had this man's true funk gone? I was feeling positively sick and thinking, 'Look Prince, screw with Warners, fine. Just don't screw me in the process, you fucker, where's your cool?!' Everyone was praising Had U for its exquisite guitar phrasing and haunting melody, but who had Prince really had? Warners, the fans, or just himself? This album still shocks me and it's only about 37 minutes long. I truly thanked the Lord when Prince saved us, and himself, with Emancipation...  You're right, it's shocking. Shockingly fucking bad. Call it "Crap & Dung" instead. | |
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JohnnyTheFox said: You're right, it's shocking. Shockingly fucking bad. Call it "Crap & Dung" instead. Amen 2 THAT!  | |
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Anji said: I truly thanked the Lord when Prince saved us, and himself, with Emancipation... 
Someone help this poor man! Personally . I think we are all Boring with No Lives cause all we do is talk about Prince,Criticize and Gossip. I need a Horny Man is what I Need and probably so do most of yas. We are Sexually Frustrated what we R... Amen..!!! - zelaire | |
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I didn't appreciate Chaos and Disorder until Emancipation came out. Eman could have used a bit of C&D's guitar work to break up the monotony.
Ever notice that Lenny's "Dig In" is very close to "I Like It There"? | |
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All this shit about Prince recording a "bad" album and/or
giving warners a grab-bag of shitty tosh to fulfill his contractual obligation. I don't think the man every recorded a song that he felt was a piece of shit or it wouldn't have seen the light of day. Not even on a WB contract filler. The only disappointing thing about Chaos is that it does not have a decent core. The first few songs are good and the last 4 or 5 as well. It just starts to shake and rattle in the middle with the utterly disastrous "RightTheWrong" and "I Rock". If those had been replaced by something else, like Poor Goo and/or The Ride or something similar, it might have pulled the album together a bit more and made it a more focussed effort. and true love lives on lollipops and crisps | |
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bananacologne said: THERAPY!!! Don't tell anyone, but I secretly love this album too
Your secret is safe with me bananaman 
Edited due to spelling error. [This message was edited Sun Apr 27 4:52:39 PDT 2003 by Therapy] | |
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Therapy said: bananacologne said: THERAPY!!! Don't tell anyone, but I secretly love this album too
Your secret is safe with me bananaman
Edited due to spelling error. [This message was edited Sun Apr 27 4:52:39 PDT 2003 by Therapy] Aaggghhh!!! 
Ill cut my bits off and be called Linda  before I ever like THAT piece of trash!  | |
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bananacologne said: Therapy said: bananacologne said: THERAPY!!! Don't tell anyone, but I secretly love this album too
Your secret is safe with me bananaman
Edited due to spelling error. [This message was edited Sun Apr 27 4:52:39 PDT 2003 by Therapy] Aaggghhh!!!
Ill cut my bits off and be called Linda before I ever like THAT piece of trash! IAN! My post's been Therapy-Jacked!!! | |
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