I was shocked when I first heard Chaos & Disorder, and not because I thought it represented 'thowaway' material; that attitude came later. My surprise was initially due to its very raw and angry nature...

Chaos & Disorder, the title track, literally screamed at me and those heartbeats at the end of the track mirrored mine; I was shocked. The opening chords and voice to I Like It There sounded beautiful, and the guitar and those screams built the song into a veritable monster. Again, I was shocked, I guess in a good way, but I wasn't sure whether things were quite right. A great segue into the gorgeously midtempo Dinner With Delores and I was in familiar, pop territory. Thank God! All of a sudden, The Same December leapt in, somewhat abruptly, and delivered yet another gorgeous melody. I was reeling with more energy and enthusiasm but then Right The Wrong came on and I was floored. I didn't know whether to put the volume up or to simply chuck the CD out the window. His initial, affected voice was sickening but not in a Camille kind of way. In its defense, the band still sounded excellent and the verses were okay, but the chorus kept jabbing at me, 'Right The Wrong, Right The Wrong.' A very welcome reprieve as Zannalee rocked around the corner and we were back on track. So far, I understood the album had a mix of angst-ridden, self-congratulatory and comical lyrics, the latter epitomised by Zannalee's final gesture, ' See you tomorrow, big ass.' I couldn't see the humour, not yet.

I Rock, Therefore I Am. Prince embraces ragga? I mean, what the fuck?! I kept thinking, 'Prince, look, you may be black, but you still ain't black. Don't mess with this shit!' The scratches, the beat, even the lyrics, were agreeable and catchy in the album's context, but Steppa Ranks was pushing me to the limit. What should have been welcome relief with the admittedly soulful, Into The Light, just made me think I was listening to Dolphin's ugly, artificial sister. That said, I liked the saxophone work. I Will plodded along, and whilst the guitar was pleasant enough, this really wasn't I Wish U Heaven. Oh man, Dig U Better Dead. I mean, where the fuck had this man's true funk gone? I was feeling positively sick and thinking, 'Look Prince, screw with Warners, fine. Just don't screw me in the process, you fucker, where's your cool?!' Everyone was praising Had U for its exquisite guitar phrasing and haunting melody, but who had Prince really had? Warners, the fans, or just himself? This album still shocks me and it's only about 37 minutes long. I truly thanked the Lord when Prince saved us, and himself, with Emancipation...

Anji said:

This of course was Rosie's influence. Her love for reggea made Prince record lots of ragga styled songs.

Anji said:

You take things WAAY to personal, btw. Prince does what he likes, he is not concerned much with his fans. They like it or they don't.
I kinda dug that album, but it was out of my system real fast.
Silly enuf I liked the ruf groove of this album, cuz it connects with TGE and Come. THe songs I cannot stand are Dinner WIth Delores (sorry Delo) and that horrid In2 The Light/I Will.
ANd even though I don't like the ragga either, at least he plays with things instead of recording When Doves Cry over and over again...

I was Shocked to Hear a Cat Sounding like He was Doing a Sad Parity of His Ownself.the Album should have been called "Coasting&Done" IMHO.

Hmm, for what it's worth, I liked Chaos&Disorder. Of course it's a completely different style, but that's what I love about the man's music, the changes.

I can sing along with a song like 'Into The Light'or 'Dig U Better Dead' until the windows in my car give me blurry vision, 'cause of the vibration my voice adds!

But then again, I almost like anything that bears the man's voice ... even if it's like a bear's voice...

I think viewing Chaos and Disorder through the prism of Prince's contractual dispute has caused many to underestimate it (myself included). It's a great beast of an album, and its live band ethic gives it a vitality lacking in Prince's work for several years thereafter. I think if "I Will" and "Into the Light" were featured on any other album they would rightly be considered classics. The top end of the album is equally superb-- I Like It There simply lifts the roof off the house. But C&D is unfortunately tainted by the feeling that it was merely designed to fulfil contractual obligations, and however much one would like to think that their opinion of the music is influenced solely by its inherent merits, the aura and myths surrounding a release can effect the way one approaches it. I think that's partly why the critical response Prince received to both this album and Come was so poor. From the contractual fallout and Prince's increasingly erratic behaviour a common narrative had emerged that Prince was on the decline as an artist. The fact that both of these albums were presented with little or no conviction created the impression that they were works of little or no conviction. But in the end I don't think any recording artist attempts to release material of sub-par quality. Prince has always been prolific and I think the only difference in the C&D period was that he had the pretext for simply ignoring the interests of his record label (in terms of the marketing cycle). Come and C&D (I exclude Gold because at the time he did *appear* more committed to that project-- ironically enough I think it's the worst of the lot, though by no means bad) are certainly better than the albums that followed them, yet these albums were created in the era of artistic freedom(?) While I would never say C&D is my favourite album, I do think a very rich vein in Prince's discography has been ignored in part for reasons other than the music.
[This message was edited Thu Mar 20 4:03:43 PST 2003 by fairmoan]

Well spoken, fairmoan!

Except for the bit about The Gold Experience, how can you not like 'I Hate U' or 'Gold' itself.

They both have great lyrics and great music combined in them, which is not to say I don't appreciate the rest of that album as well, I do!!

But we were talkin' about C & D ...

I love that intro to "Right The Wrong", can't believe Prince actually wrote this. Doesn't sound like anything he would write. (if memory serves well):

"...and indian woman barried her grand-pa in the black hills. When he was young he used to tell her that these hills belong to her, still. And even though injustice took them hills away, one day we get them back he said and the suns gonna shine that day. Right the Wrong.
And when she laid him down to rest, she heard his voice true the wilderness, he said:"I've got six feet of them back, now we gonna right the wrong"

It is truly beautiful and touching...

gooeythehamster said:

I take it, that that isn't a joke?

gooeythehamster said:

Of course, Prince does whatever he wants to do. I have no doubt that Prince was satisfied with the Chaos & Disorder 'project' at the time. I kinda liked it too, for the reasons I mentioned above.

In retrospect, however, I'd be surprised if he looks back at his 'first' farewell album to Warners, with pride. It was an immature reaction on his part. I don't think he could see beyond his own 'emancipation' at that point in time, and I'm suggesting that he was prepared to free himself at too high a cost.

One of those costs should not have been to compromise his musical legacy, or artistic integrity. He jeapordised both with the release of that half-baked album. It doesn't matter whether fans can enjoy it, or not; most fans will always try and find the good in his music. I'm still surprised he allowed his 'I don't give a fuck' attitude to filter through to his music in such a harmful way.

.
[This message was edited Thu Mar 20 16:30:48 PST 2003 by Anji]

mistermaxxx said:

My sentiments exactly.

ChocolateInvasion said:

I take it, that that isn't a joke?

fairmoan said:

I understand where you're coming from completely and I agree with you, to a certain extent. I also don't doubt that this music was created with the best of intentions, as in it was genuine output (even Right The Wrong). Like you said, the band sound excellent but we knew that anyway. We had The Gold Experience preceeding this album, and his live sound capability was never in question. Comparing the C&D sound to the output that followed (Emancipation, for example) is neither here nor there, that was not the sound he wanted to create with records between '96-'99.

I definitely think his problems with Warners, and seeing that light at the end of the tunnel, made him release some music he would have ordinarily left in the Vault. The Black Album is testament to that theory. Also, the album Come, whilst containing very good music, was probably not the manner in which he wanted to present the material. As many people have theorised here, the Come/Gold era would have likely been a double album's worth of material characterised by a single vision. The music, and Prince's vision, was not only compromised by Warners, but deliberately by Prince himself. He sabotaged himself and that was, and still is, shocking to me.

.
[This message was edited Thu Mar 20 16:33:03 PST 2003 by Anji]

jodude911 said:

The Gold Experience and Chaos & Disorder should not even be put next to each other in a CD rack. The latter is sub-par work.

I don't care what anyone says, that album kicks ASS!

NWF said:

This is a very common reaction from the Chaos & Disorder troops.

' See you tomorrow, big ass.'

He actually says "See you tomorrow - pain in the ass", but he says that last bit so quickly and with a weird muttering smirk that it sounds like 'big ass'.

Jestyr said:

Now I am laughing!

Anji said:

The only shocking thing about "Crap & Dung" is how shockingly bad it is.

Chaos has some of the best tracks and some of the worst tracks of the 90s.

I altered the album slightly, trying to keep the style, production and age fairly right. I much prefer this CD

1. Chaos and Disorder
2. I like it there
3. Dinner with Delores
4. Last December
5. Into the Light
6. I will
7. Zanalee
8. Right Back Here In my arms
9. Da Bang
10. Dig U better dead
11.Hide the bone
12.Had U

It rocks!
[This message was edited Thu Mar 20 12:29:46 PST 2003 by SquirrelMeat]

SquirrelMeat said:

Nice idea, Squirrel, but that still looks like an album littered with sub-par material. Prince realised this material was not of the standard he would like to release, as he explicitly laid out in the liner notes that all C&D material was intended for private use only.

By the way, I'm surprised The Undertaker 'project' did not filter through onto your tracklist.

And likewise, The Vault: Old Friends For Sale contains sub-par material. As much as we may enjoy it, Prince recognised that under 'normal' circumstances, this music would never have seen the light of day on a mainstream commercial Prince release.

Anji said:

so why release it? I mean if People support what you are doing you always want to put your best foot forward no matter what.Sabotage your Name&Your Work truly makes you look Suspect&a bit Looney IMHO.He isn't the first Artist to go through these kind of Situations with a Label&He won't be the last.quiet as it's kept that was probably the best He could Muster up at the time to save Musical Face with releasing One Album a Year.

mistermaxxx said:

If what you're suggesting is true, then Prince effectively acknowledged he didn't having anything better than The Vault to release at that point on time, because he acknowledged that the material he put forward was not quite up to par by suggesting it was for private use only.

I'm not sure I agree. I think he just wanted to put out material that did not trample on his own releases, whilst keeping with their binding agreement. None of The Vault's material was the best of what could have been on that collection, and there's a reason why. He didn't want it to be commercially successful and for Warners to be making more money from him, than necessary.

Anji said:

but you never let the Public know or say outloud that this is Sub-par Material&yet go out&Perform it?because that makes you more arrogant&stuffy than you are already precived as being.I mean thank about this:All those Covers for Emanciapation&then Covering Sheryl Crow for Rave&In between that Releasing Crystal ball with 75% older Material&Re-Mixes of stuff.in fact most folks dug the Truth more than anything else on those 3 Discs Combined in some circles.it looks very suspect if you ask me?

u guys tripping, this was his well,rock album, and man i love it cause it sounds like nothing he;s done and he didnt care who dug it. and thats when he's at his best. he could have kept the cheesey right the wrong but the rest of it, i rock and i will are the bomb fellas.

mistermaxxx said:

Prince's version of Sheryl's song was genuine, as were all his covers on Emancipation. The fact that people either liked them or not, is neither here nor there.

The Vault's material, as with Chaos & Disorder, seemed like he just used the minimum effort (choice of songs / packaging / promotion etc) to keep with his binding contract to Warners.

The case maybe argued that he didn't have sufficient original material, and therefore put his best foot forward with that material, but I think that is a flawed argument because of everything else he had in the Vault. I suspect he was saving his best material (new and old) for what he considered his own releases e.g. Days Of Wild on Crystal Ball, as opposed to The Gold Experience. It was most likely a balancing act to convince Warners of one thing with their records, but do another on his own releases.

This was all bound by Prince's view of what was rightfully his and therefore, nobody but himself should be taking the lion's share of money from it. This philosophy was peppered throughout his promotion of the Newpower Soul album. Ultimately, it could be argued he lost his artistic stamp on the musical world because of money.


[This message was edited Thu Mar 20 16:38:31 PST 2003 by Anji]

Anji said:

but upon what He has allowed out since He was Quote,Un-quote Freed hasn't been that Magical Vault Stuff that everybody truly wants.He still Signed with Capitol&Arista&He knew He had to bring the Goods.the Cat knows that if He un-loads the Vaults&Brings the full 12 Inch Singles&whatnot out that is Instant Cash without moving but then again I don't think that is gonna happen.

joelmarable said:

No, The Undertaker was his rock album. As much as fans may enjoy Chaos & Disorder, it was most likely a deliberate attempt by Prince to put out his least 'commercial-worthy' material.

As was explained in the liner notes, the material was originally intended for private use only. He didn't want Warners to be making money off any of his final releases with them. The Gold Experience was an exception to the rule, but only in as much as the fact that he knew he had a hit album worthy of their backing, and he could possibly make more money with them, than without them. I also think Prince was somewhat confused at this point.

Chaos & Disorder and The Vault are contract fillers.

mistermaxxx said:

Now that Prince is in control of his own career, he's releasing the old gems sparingly; just enough to keep the fans satisfied but still making more money than ever from such releases.

There's absolutely no need from his point of view to release his best Vault material in one package. That is possibly the least intelligent commercial move on his part, from a medium to long term point of view. Crystal Ball served its purpose, as will Crystal Ball II if he decides he needs to release it.