errant said:

kewlschool said:

WB owns the publishing rights to the songs. Prince would have to pay to use them. They (All the songs on the Batman album) are the only songs Prince does not own the publishing rights too.

Prince has owned all his publishing rights to all other songs. Unless Prince worked some magic with the new contract he may or may not own the publishing rights.

but that wouldn't preclude them from being on a Warner Bros. Records album.

which The Hits, The Very Best of Prince, Ultimate, and his upcoming remasters are.

what are you trying to say exactly? Warner Bros. and Prince can't put out the Batman songs from a Prince album because they are owned by Warner Bros. Records?

btw, I'm looking at the liner notes to the album and they are all copyrighted by Controversy Music.

that the songs might be owned by Warner Bros. Records is not any sort of reason for them to not be on remasters put out by Warner Bros. Records.

that the album contains the intellectual property of another corporation (AOL Time Warner) that is no longer tied to Warner Bros. Records - the title, the logo, the characters, film clips (the actors may also require approval) - would be the reason.

I think your right about the potential expensive rights to the intellectual property that would be the biggest hurdle to a remaster, but Prince doesn't own the publishing rights which means he doesn't earn money off the songs. Unless he got them back in a new deal. So, 2 hurdles essentially.

kewlschool said:

errant said:

but that wouldn't preclude them from being on a Warner Bros. Records album.

which The Hits, The Very Best of Prince, Ultimate, and his upcoming remasters are.

what are you trying to say exactly? Warner Bros. and Prince can't put out the Batman songs from a Prince album because they are owned by Warner Bros. Records?

btw, I'm looking at the liner notes to the album and they are all copyrighted by Controversy Music.

that the songs might be owned by Warner Bros. Records is not any sort of reason for them to not be on remasters put out by Warner Bros. Records.

that the album contains the intellectual property of another corporation (AOL Time Warner) that is no longer tied to Warner Bros. Records - the title, the logo, the characters, film clips (the actors may also require approval) - would be the reason.

I think your right about the potential expensive rights to the intellectual property that would be the biggest hurdle to a remaster, but Prince doesn't own the publishing rights which means he doesn't earn money off the songs. Unless he got them back in a new deal. So, 2 hurdles essentially.

they were published through Controversy Music, which was his own publishing company, same as every other song.

what makes you think that the publishing isn't owned by him?

errant said:

kewlschool said:

I think your right about the potential expensive rights to the intellectual property that would be the biggest hurdle to a remaster, but Prince doesn't own the publishing rights which means he doesn't earn money off the songs. Unless he got them back in a new deal. So, 2 hurdles essentially.

they were published through Controversy Music, which was his own publishing company, same as every other song.

what makes you think that the publishing isn't owned by him?

It was a big deal back in the 80's in the press about his giving up the rights. Here is more info per wiki:

Ownership of the Batman franchise is notoriously complex. Prince had to agree to sign the publishing rights to the songs used in the movie over to Warner Bros.; therefore, Prince's hit singles from this album were not permitted to appear on any of his hits compilations, only the B-side singles "200 Balloons", "Feel U Up" and "I Love U in Me"

kewlschool said:

errant said:

they were published through Controversy Music, which was his own publishing company, same as every other song.

what makes you think that the publishing isn't owned by him?

It was a big deal back in the 80's in the press about his giving up the rights. Here is more info per wiki:

Ownership of the Batman franchise is notoriously complex. Prince had to agree to sign the publishing rights to the songs used in the movie over to Warner Bros.; therefore, Prince's hit singles from this album were not permitted to appear on any of his hits compilations, only the B-side singles "200 Balloons", "Feel U Up" and "I Love U in Me"

but that wouldn't make any sense, since Warner Bros. Records and Films were both divisions of Time Warner at the time. which is why he was asked to do the soundtrack in the first place: synergy.

errant said:

kewlschool said:

It was a big deal back in the 80's in the press about his giving up the rights. Here is more info per wiki:

Ownership of the Batman franchise is notoriously complex. Prince had to agree to sign the publishing rights to the songs used in the movie over to Warner Bros.; therefore, Prince's hit singles from this album were not permitted to appear on any of his hits compilations, only the B-side singles "200 Balloons", "Feel U Up" and "I Love U in Me"

but that wouldn't make any sense, since Warner Bros. Records and Films were both divisions of Time Warner at the time. which is why he was asked to do the soundtrack in the first place: synergy.

The album was a chance to use a big budget to promote Batman movie and Prince. One can only assume the WB paid for all the videos, production costs, and promotion. Prince got paid upfront and didn't have to pay to promote the album at all. Normally Prince would pay out of the CD sales for all the distribution, production and promotion.

It's why people refer to the Batman album as the cash cow (for Prince.). He probably made more money on that Batman album than on the original Purple Rain album.

This thread is yet another one that underscores how polarizing P and his music can be. Lots of ppl LOVE The Arms of Orion. I don't think its as bad as ppl make it out to be Some people hate on Batman simply because it was the soundtrack to a commercial movie. But hells no, Lemon Crush a throwaway? Puhleez, I bumps that ish on the regular! Dance with The Devil is another "vault" song that is overrated and rightfully belongs in the vault! I wanted to like it, but....

I think the album is a cohesive soundtrack that fits the movie well. Scandalous and Vicki Waiting are the "soul" of the album to me. And Batdance, like the Joker and Batman is the quirky, bold, gutsy "heart".

BTW, Who's going to be the first "armchair quaterback" from the Org to produce a platinum album that puts all their dogmatic opinions to use

I think Batman is awesome. I also don't get the hate for "The Arms of Orion" - it is schlocky, but so is "Purple Rain" in its way. The weak link for me has always been "Lemon Crush", but I don't mind it. The B-sides are also fantastic, especially "Feel U Up".

EddieC said:

3rdeyeboy said:

There are some excellent individual tracks, but the album doesn't take you on a journey like the ones before it. And it has too many weak spots.

Arms Of Orion is brilliantly written and produced, but it simply too cheesy, and Trust and Lemon Crush are b-side at best.

The outtakes (ie Dance With The Devil) and B side (I love U in Me) are far better.

I've tried, I've really tried, to understand why people hate this song so much. It's "brilliantly written and produced," you say, someone else points out that the singing is great--but (and this is nearly always the word used) it's "cheesy." What the heck does that mean? I don't understand what people mean--it's not lyrically cliche'd (although the lyrics mean through sound more than literal meaning--obviously one can't drown in the Sea of Tranquility, and it combines astronomical terms with little interest in their actual meaning but just the suggestiveness of names or sounds). It's got some keyboard sounds that annoy me (the same types of sounds that annoy me in Graffiti Bridge and Still Would Stand All Time, and The Grand Progression, actually)--they sound weak and cheap to me.

The song seems to me to be strong, the vocal arrangement is very nice, the singing is fine, the closing moments annoy me (largely because of the keyboard sound). It's a great track.

So sayeth I.

.

Arms Of Orion is P's attempt at creating a generic pop ballad aimed at becoming a big hit on FM radio. I like it, actually, but that doesn't mean it's a great track. It falls spectacularly short when compared to Batman's other ballad, Scandalous, a song so great Prince copied it a kazillion times on most of his future ballads.

BartVanHemelen said:

EddieC said:

I've tried, I've really tried, to understand why people hate this song so much. It's "brilliantly written and produced," you say, someone else points out that the singing is great--but (and this is nearly always the word used) it's "cheesy." What the heck does that mean? I don't understand what people mean--it's not lyrically cliche'd (although the lyrics mean through sound more than literal meaning--obviously one can't drown in the Sea of Tranquility, and it combines astronomical terms with little interest in their actual meaning but just the suggestiveness of names or sounds). It's got some keyboard sounds that annoy me (the same types of sounds that annoy me in Graffiti Bridge and Still Would Stand All Time, and The Grand Progression, actually)--they sound weak and cheap to me.

The song seems to me to be strong, the vocal arrangement is very nice, the singing is fine, the closing moments annoy me (largely because of the keyboard sound). It's a great track.

So sayeth I.

.

.... Scandalous, a song so great Prince copied it a kazillion times on most of his future ballads.

.

Which Danny Elfman incorporated into the film's score.

.

Not sure why the Batman songs never made it onto the WB Hits/B sides. It must have something to do with the movie tie-in and ownership rights by someone else other than WB. Perhaps Burton or Elfman had a say in things?

.

Didnt Danny Elfman get quite upset with Prince's Batman? Something to do with over shadowing his score released as the Batman film score?

Yeah, "Scandalous" does run circles around "The Arms of Orion". Still, I agree that the latter is well-performed, and I actually really love the synth sounds in it - I think they give it a sort of celestial glow appropos of the lyrics.

[Edited 4/29/14 6:48am]

"The Arms of Orion" was played constantly on quiet storm stations. So somebody liked it! Sheena Easton & Prince's voice blended well together....

Rebeljuice said:

BartVanHemelen said:

.

.... Scandalous, a song so great Prince copied it a kazillion times on most of his future ballads.

.

Which Danny Elfman incorporated into the film's score.

.

Not sure why the Batman songs never made it onto the WB Hits/B sides. It must have something to do with the movie tie-in and ownership rights by someone else other than WB. Perhaps Burton or Elfman had a say in things?

.

Didnt Danny Elfman get quite upset with Prince's Batman? Something to do with over shadowing his score released as the Batman film score?

He did. It's on the soundtrack album too.

So this is the beauty of being a Prince fan - we are all different and all have different taste in music and styles and luckily for us Prince is able to deliver music in all different styles. It is also the reason why as a bunch we often disagree on which are the good and which are the bad songs!

On my Batman playlist though I replace Arms of Orion (still cannot quite believe Bart admits to liking that one!) with Dance With The Devil and also add 200 Baloons.

jaypotton said:

On my Batman playlist though I replace Arms of Orion (still cannot quite believe Bart admits to liking that one!) with Dance With The Devil and also add 200 Baloons.

Eh, I grew up in the 1980s and I'm rather fond of such cheesy ballads. Could also be Sheena Easton's vocal, I kinda love that "she can/can't sing" dichotomy she's got going.

Is it a track I'd recommend? Hell no, I'd point everyone to its B-Side, the sublime I Love U In Me (I'm still happy as fuck to have been present at a TGE era gig where he performed that live).

BartVanHemelen said:

jaypotton said:

On my Batman playlist though I replace Arms of Orion (still cannot quite believe Bart admits to liking that one!) with Dance With The Devil and also add 200 Baloons.

Eh, I grew up in the 1980s and I'm rather fond of such cheesy ballads. Could also be Sheena Easton's vocal, I kinda love that "she can/can't sing" dichotomy she's got going.

Is it a track I'd recommend? Hell no, I'd point everyone to its B-Side, the sublime I Love U In Me (I'm still happy as fuck to have been present at a TGE era gig where he performed that live).

Hell yes, gorgeous track. As for AOO, well Bart as someone who likes NIN I am rather shocked by this confession

Also quite as it is rare I agree with you but in the last few days this has happened a few times!

Also as it is nice to see/read/hear you being positive about something connected to Prince even if it is related to years ago (I know you ceased liking Prince - the person or the music - since the mid 90s)

Basically the only clunker from Batman is Trust - which might have been better with a slower tempo or something.

I Love You N Me is so good not even the vocal outburst: surgery!! could bring it down.

Isn't the B-side song Sex... pretty much the last glimpse of so called 80's golden era Prince recording in the studio? After that he went in other directions, changed his sound up, etc.

fbueller said:

Basically the only clunker from Batman is Trust - which might have been better with a slower tempo or something.

I Love You N Me is so good not even the vocal outburst: surgery!! could bring it down.

Isn't the B-side song Sex... pretty much the last glimpse of so called 80's golden era Prince recording in the studio? After that he went in other directions, changed his sound up, etc.

many, many orgers seem to love Trust. i've always been a bit confused by all that love for it,

since i agree with you that it's the worst song on the album. i'll listen to Arms Of Orion twenty

times before i'll sit through Trust just once.

i think it's the only 80s album track that i really *never* listen to. recently i listened to those

unreleased remixes of it that leaked and remembered why i never listen to it.

jaypotton said:

BartVanHemelen said:

Eh, I grew up in the 1980s and I'm rather fond of such cheesy ballads. Could also be Sheena Easton's vocal, I kinda love that "she can/can't sing" dichotomy she's got going.

Is it a track I'd recommend? Hell no, I'd point everyone to its B-Side, the sublime I Love U In Me (I'm still happy as fuck to have been present at a TGE era gig where he performed that live).

Hell yes, gorgeous track. As for AOO, well Bart as someone who likes NIN I am rather shocked by this confession

Also quite as it is rare I agree with you but in the last few days this has happened a few times!

Also as it is nice to see/read/hear you being positive about something connected to Prince even if it is related to years ago (I know you ceased liking Prince - the person or the music - since the mid 90s)

what has NIN got to do with anything? i listen to Lamb Of God and Meshuggah but still like Arms Of Orion.

I agree.The song has some interesting elements,but it's kinda too slow and boring.I don't think it would have fit on the album (which is filled with songs that are much more uptempo).

datdude said:

Dance with The Devil is another "vault" song that is overrated and rightfully belongs in the vault! I wanted to like it, but....

"Lemon Crush" is a good song,but I think the lyrics are weak.Love that groove,though

being a huge Batman fan and huge Prince fan, 1989 was such a fun year for me!

so this album has a special place.....

SoulAlive said:

I agree.The song has some interesting elements,but it's kinda too slow and boring.I don't think it would have fit on the album (which is filled with songs that are much more uptempo).

datdude said:

Dance with The Devil is another "vault" song that is overrated and rightfully belongs in the vault! I wanted to like it, but....

i don't know what the configurations for this album were before release

but if "scandalous" ended up replacing this song, i think he made a good

call. DWTD is interesting, but not much more. as an extra on a bonus cd

it will be a nice little unpolished gem. but on the album, "scandalous" fists

miles better imo.

bigd74 said:

jaypotton said:

Hell yes, gorgeous track. As for AOO, well Bart as someone who likes NIN I am rather shocked by this confession

Also quite as it is rare I agree with you but in the last few days this has happened a few times!

Also as it is nice to see/read/hear you being positive about something connected to Prince even if it is related to years ago (I know you ceased liking Prince - the person or the music - since the mid 90s)

what has NIN got to do with anything? i listen to Lamb Of God and Meshuggah but still like Arms Of Orion.

Well there's no accounting for taste

Eye remember "BatDance"(the video) was played on MTV @ the top of every hour! Prince was back on top again. It was a magical moment, that he would return to with the D&P album a few short years later.

Underrated? No, because it's actually Prince's first big musical downfall and an even bigger turning point in his career as an artist.

Prince's Batman did exactly what it was supposed to: Sell the movie while bringing Prince back to the top of commerical prominence without sacrificing his artistic integrity.

-

Remember, despite the genius of Prince's post Purple Rain output, the commerical aspect of his career was in BIG trouble. Barely 4 years removed from the Purple Rain Mania, and Prince found himself in need of a big seller more than he needed to prove himself as an artist.

-

Looking back, it's weird that a song like "Arms of Orion" wasn't the lead single. It was much more of the tone of the era. Like it or not, "Arms of Orion" is no more "gaudy" or syrupy than "Diamonds and Pearls" or anything off of The Bodyguard Soundtrack.

-

"Batdance" is definitely one of the most unusual/experimental songs to hit #1 from a HUGE blockbuster soundtrack. It was risky.

It wasn't "Eye of the Tiger", "Take My Breath Away", it wasn't "Ghostbusters", it wasn't "Staying Alive" or "What a Feeling (Flashdance)." Hell, it was even more experimental and "out there" than "Axel F." or the Miami Vice Theme. Somehow, the madness of it all just worked. It's like Prince heard Yello's "Oh Yeah" and took it to Gotham City. Who would have thought of that? Prince. Madness and Genius.

-

At the end of the day, the masses (many of whom jumped off of the purple bandwagon in 1985) were reminded of Prince's kickass genius before they bought their tickets to Batman.

-

---Sidenote--- I love "Scandalous", but it did not set the template for future Prince ballads. It copied the formula that had Prince had been using since "Do me, baby" and "International Lover."

[Edited 5/1/14 14:43pm]

skywalker said:

"Batdance" is definitely one of the most unusual/experimental songs to hit #1 from a HUGE blockbuster soundtrack. It was risky.

Exactly.