I was listening to a Sheila E interview the other day and she seemed bitter. Not overtly, you had to look close.

It started me thinking about all of the former musicians that he has worked with who seem to feel the same way.

they dont bash him (like Morris), but there is just this feeling of "what, I wasn't good enough to still be with you" vibe in almost everybody.

Must be a hard fall.

The girls should take note, and cherish every minute.

I don't blame the former musicians, if they are bitter...

Prince is known to be a brutal leader.. he can be cold and treat the band very badly,

Just to mention Jimmy Jam / Terry Lewis... and Wendy & Lisa... back then..

Or the way Candy was fired in 2007.......(I miss Candy Dulfer ).....

I can't exactly remember what happened to Sheila E., but it was "brutal" and unfriendly too, right?

[Edited 4/10/14 9:10am]

probably. And there was some bottom-knocking there as well no-doubt.

Bet she and Cat had one HELL of a "cat fight."

He probably watched with a smile..

With the guys who badmouth Prince, I think it's just garden-variety jealousy and sour grapes. They all wanted Prince's success, but didn't have Prince's work ethic or talent.

With the women, I think it's more emotional. They viewed him either as a lover or a brother - not as their boss. So when the gig ended, it was more like a break-up – and those are rarely amicable.

Being in Prince's band is a job – and it's never been a permanent gig for anybody. As long as the 3rdEyeGirls remember that and don't get too tangled up emotionally, they'll be fine.

[Edited 4/10/14 9:45am]

Genesia said:

With the guys who badmouth Prince, I think it's just garden-variety jealousy and sour grapes. They all wanted Prince's success, but didn't have Prince's work ethic or talent.

With the women, I think it's more emotional. They viewed him either as a lover or a brother - not as their boss. So when the gig ended, it was more like a break-up – and those are rarely amicable.

Being in Prince's band is a job – and it's never been a permanent gig for anybody. As long as the 3rdEyeGirls remember that and don't get too tangled up emotionally, they'll be fine.

Exactly.

-------

There seems to be a pattern. It's not one former employee who can be dismissed as too emotional. There are more than one who feel mistreated by him. There seem to be a lot who are left with a bitter taste about P. He seems to be not good at working together with people.

Repetitive themes I read:

- paying the people for the hours and effort they put in. Maybe he thinks they should be so thankful that he wants to work with them, that they should work for free? However, it seems that his current staff gets paid very well.

- his way or the high way.

- Prince is bored easily. People who think they can change him, are fooling themselves.



I think people do project a lot of their own fantasies on him. And feel dissapointed in him if he doesn't live up to that. And he has high expectations and seems to have a hard time with accepting flaws or bad traits in other people (from his perspective).


What I apreciate about Prince is that he did not badmouth anybody himself.

(as far as I know)

thedance said:

I don't blame the former musicians, if they are bitter...

Prince is known to be a brutal leader.. he can be cold and treat the band very badly,

Just to mention Jimmy Jam / Terry Lewis... and Wendy & Lisa... back then..

Or the way Candy was fired in 2007.......(I miss Candy Dulfer ).....

I can't exactly remember what happened to Sheila E., but it was "brutal" and unfriendly too, right?

[Edited 4/10/14 9:10am]

Prince had booked Larry Graham and Sheila E. and her family for the same show. Prince let Larry perform and Sheila and her fam were left out in the cold. I think it was out in L.A. From that point Sheila said she wasn't performing with Prince ever again.

[Edited 4/10/14 13:32pm]

one thing u can say about all of em they can talk all the shit they wanna but if prince reach out to em they back in his good grace ready 2 work.prince dont owe nobody nothihng evvery contract he signed was signed as a solo artist member of his band from the 70's start know prince can be a tryant he gives alot and expects alot. with all that being said if u listen 2 shelby j,kirk johnson.liv warfield, john blackwell all talk about how handsomely prince pay them and how he gives so much of himselve 2 them makes me wonder sometimes about the biter people.

Genesia said:

If you have to go to court to get your money, then what does that to your feelings about mr P's enterprises? (happened to a few band members)

Also the list of unhappy endings (to put it mildly) shows a trend.

Should we mention his list of fiancee's/wives/etc in this thread?

dJJ said:

Genesia said:

With the guys who badmouth Prince, I think it's just garden-variety jealousy and sour grapes. They all wanted Prince's success, but didn't have Prince's work ethic or talent.

With the women, I think it's more emotional. They viewed him either as a lover or a brother - not as their boss. So when the gig ended, it was more like a break-up – and those are rarely amicable.

Being in Prince's band is a job – and it's never been a permanent gig for anybody. As long as the 3rdEyeGirls remember that and don't get too tangled up emotionally, they'll be fine.

Exactly.

-------

There seems to be a pattern. It's not one former employee who can be dismissed as too emotional. There are more than one who feel mistreated by him. There seem to be a lot who are left with a bitter taste about P. He seems to be not good at working together with people.

Repetitive themes I read:

- paying the people for the hours and effort they put in. Maybe he thinks they should be so thankful that he wants to work with them, that they should work for free? However, it seems that his current staff gets paid very well.

- his way or the high way.

- Prince is bored easily. People who think they can change him, are fooling themselves.



I think people do project a lot of their own fantasies on him. And feel dissapointed in him if he doesn't live up to that. And he has high expectations and seems to have a hard time with accepting flaws or bad traits in other people (from his perspective).


What I apreciate about Prince is that he did not badmouth anybody himself.

(as far as I know)

Jughead is a song about a certain somebody. Dinner with Delores is too.

I don't think being in prince's band is like a job. A job you get to clock in and out of, it seems that if you're in prince's band you have to be on call 24/7 and can't have any commitments or friends outside of him. Being in prince's band is more like being in a cultish commune.

Not saying it's necessarily a bad thing, but it always seems to be his way or no way. If you don't jump when he says jump (even if it's 3 in the morning and he hasn't spoken to you in 2 weeks) you're out. You move your life for him (get your husband to join his band for example), he won't move his for you. Oh and hell yeah i'd do it if i was given the opportunity

[Edited 4/11/14 5:52am]

joyinrepetition said:

Prince had booked Larry Graham and Sheila E. and her family for the same show. Prince let Larry perform and Sheila and her fam were left out in the cold. I think it was out in L.A. From that point Sheila said she wasn't performing with Prince ever again.

.
Do you know when this happened?
.

What's the story with Candy? I thought she just moved on after the tour, didn't know she was fired.

.

Whoever said they'd all come back and work with hiim if they could is probably right. Wendy even admitted she would. I think P can be an asshole boss but I also think he has to be. You start playing bff wth your staff and nobody takes their job seriously. This is true in any line of work.

^ iirc..


Candy played the opening night in London 2007 at the O2 Arena,

She was fired and asked to leave after that.

I think she wrote a dissapointed message on her site....... ?

Please confirm or correct this, someone..

No more Candy Dulfer 4 U:


http://prince.org/msg/5/323393

[Edited 4/11/14 7:17am]

thedance said:

^ iirc..


Candy played the opening night in London 2007 at the O2 Arena,

She was fired and asked to leave after that.

I think she wrote a dissapointed message on her site....... ?

Please confirm or correct this, someone..

Yeah, something personal happened between the two and Prince ask her to leave. Needless to say Candy was upset about the situation. Prince even said that she won't be working with "Us" anymore.

Stimpy said:

probably. And there was some bottom-knocking there as well no-doubt.

Bet she and Cat had one HELL of a "cat fight."

He probably watched with a smile..

No Cat left on her own, she said Prince wanted her to fire someone (it was her place) she said he put her in a very uncomfortable position. And I guess some other things happening at the time, she felt she better jump ship now.

.

Sheila E has always had an up n down situation with Prince, He was supposed to be engaged to her after his engagement with Susannah ended and in 1988/89 he meets Anna Garcia. Sheila E ended up leaving because she disagreed with Prince with the direction of her next album 4th album. She said she didn't want him to break up the Lovesexy band as well. I believe the last thing was how he handled her on the W2Europe tour dismissing her before they went to Italy. I believe her new song Mona Lisa is about her business relationship with Prince.

joyinrepetition said:

thedance said:

I can't exactly remember what happened to Sheila E., but it was "brutal" and unfriendly too, right?

Prince had booked Larry Graham and Sheila E. and her family for the same show. Prince let Larry perform and Sheila and her fam were left out in the cold. I think it was out in L.A. From that point Sheila said she wasn't performing with Prince ever again.

I remember this incident.I think it was one of the San Jose shows.Sheila wasn't too happy about it.

dJJ said:

Genesia said:

With the guys who badmouth Prince, I think it's just garden-variety jealousy and sour grapes. They all wanted Prince's success, but didn't have Prince's work ethic or talent.

With the women, I think it's more emotional. They viewed him either as a lover or a brother - not as their boss. So when the gig ended, it was more like a break-up – and those are rarely amicable.

Being in Prince's band is a job – and it's never been a permanent gig for anybody. As long as the 3rdEyeGirls remember that and don't get too tangled up emotionally, they'll be fine.

Exactly.

-------

There seems to be a pattern. It's not one former employee who can be dismissed as too emotional. There are more than one who feel mistreated by him. There seem to be a lot who are left with a bitter taste about P. He seems to be not good at working together with people.

Repetitive themes I read:

- paying the people for the hours and effort they put in. Maybe he thinks they should be so thankful that he wants to work with them, that they should work for free? However, it seems that his current staff gets paid very well.

- his way or the high way.

- Prince is bored easily. People who think they can change him, are fooling themselves.



I think people do project a lot of their own fantasies on him. And feel dissapointed in him if he doesn't live up to that. And he has high expectations and seems to have a hard time with accepting flaws or bad traits in other people (from his perspective).


What I apreciate about Prince is that he did not badmouth anybody himself.

(as far as I know)

I agree with you too, BUT all along it would have to be Prince who sets the standard. Prince in 2014 is not the same Prince of 1980 who lived with Lisa and did laundry together, who became good friends with her brother. Prince of 2004 is not the same Prince who dated Susan Moonsie and lived with her family for a period when he couldn't go to his own family, and then puts her in a band (preeee-Purple Rain fame) and is dating Vanity and still running to her for emotional support.

.

Prince has said 'men have a harder time connecting emotionally' which is why he always tended to be closer to the women. Prince blurred the lines if 'it was just a job' I don't believe he played it out that way.

.

Prince might not have 'bad mouthed anyone' and I think the only people who really get in like that with Prince were the ones who were his 'childhood' friends and Jesse Johnson, maybe Levi Seacer jr. I think the relationship he had with Morris Day and the Time members Prince did not handle that professionally. And we know Prince is not the best business man. Prince in many interviews takes 'pot shots' at people but doesn't come out and badmouth them. He lies as well like when he tried to turn the story around and say it was Morris Day that fired Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis. There is a reason Prince doesn't like to do interviews...

.

Eric Leeds was also burnt by Prince for not paying him for the work he did.

Prince wanted to reunite the Revolution (during a period where his career wasn't so good) 1997-1999 for the Roadhouse Garden project. He told Wendy & Lisa he wasn't going to pay them. I mean business or emotion -that is 100% disrespect of another person. While he's slapping 5s with Larry Graham

.

I don't think people can be unemotionally attached (especially those in the 1980s) and be 'artists' 'creative' 'musicians' that alone requires you to be open and feely

SoulAlive said:

joyinrepetition said:

Prince had booked Larry Graham and Sheila E. and her family for the same show. Prince let Larry perform and Sheila and her fam were left out in the cold. I think it was out in L.A. From that point Sheila said she wasn't performing with Prince ever again.

I remember this incident.I think it was one of the San Jose shows.Sheila wasn't too happy about it.

He's gotta keep the old prophet happy I guess

And this incident proceed him dismissing her from the S European leg of the W2 tours

Bambi82 said:

joyinrepetition said:

Prince had booked Larry Graham and Sheila E. and her family for the same show. Prince let Larry perform and Sheila and her fam were left out in the cold. I think it was out in L.A. From that point Sheila said she wasn't performing with Prince ever again.

.
Do you know when this happened?
.

What's the story with Candy? I thought she just moved on after the tour, didn't know she was fired.

.

Whoever said they'd all come back and work with hiim if they could is probably right. Wendy even admitted she would. I think P can be an asshole boss but I also think he has to be. You start playing bff wth your staff and nobody takes their job seriously. This is true in any line of work.

No you don't have to be an asshole boss to have a productive work relationship. Would you like to work with an Asshole boss? I know I wouldn't. People like that get hurt later on in different ways. The people in his band (maybe not the Game boyz) were all professional from the start, they believed in Prince and worked hard, the loved the guy too. Prince has personal/emotional issues that cause him to be an 'asshole' You still have to pay people for the work. Also God is Love Love is God doesn't work well with Asshole Boss lol

It could be my thoughts only, but when I look at who he handled those who were in his band/protege bands prior to 1990 he treated those people very ummm hurtful?? Like because these people were so into him he had to make sure he kept them at a good distance or something.

Just look back at how things ended between Prince and Mico Weaver, Dr Fink, W&L, Sheila, Jill Jones, the Time, Levi Seacer jr Eric Leeds

OldFriends4Sale said:

Bambi82 said:

.
Do you know when this happened?
.

What's the story with Candy? I thought she just moved on after the tour, didn't know she was fired.

.

Whoever said they'd all come back and work with hiim if they could is probably right. Wendy even admitted she would. I think P can be an asshole boss but I also think he has to be. You start playing bff wth your staff and nobody takes their job seriously. This is true in any line of work.

No you don't have to be an asshole boss to have a productive work relationship. Would you like to work with an Asshole boss? The people in his band (maybe not the Game boyz) were all professional from the start, they believed in Prince and worked hard, the loved the guy too. Prince has personal/emotional issues that cause him to be an 'asshole' You still have to pay people for the work. Also God is Love Love is God doesn't work well with Asshole Boss lol

It could be my thoughts only, but when I look at who he handled those who were in his band/protege bands prior to 1990 he treated those people very ummm hurtful?? Like because these people were so into him he had to make sure he kept them at a good distance or something.

Just look back at how things ended between Prince and Mico Weaver, Dr Fink, W&L, Sheila, Jill Jones, the Time, Levi Seacer jr Eric Leeds

Exactly. No need to be a bully if you are a good leader.


Leadership does need practice and learning. It's not a skill easily obtained.


Eventhough most bosses think they are good at it. The actually are not.

Self reflection is a pivotal instrument to become a good leader.

37.

^

dJJ said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

No you don't have to be an asshole boss to have a productive work relationship. Would you like to work with an Asshole boss? The people in his band (maybe not the Game boyz) were all professional from the start, they believed in Prince and worked hard, the loved the guy too. Prince has personal/emotional issues that cause him to be an 'asshole' You still have to pay people for the work. Also God is Love Love is God doesn't work well with Asshole Boss lol

It could be my thoughts only, but when I look at who he handled those who were in his band/protege bands prior to 1990 he treated those people very ummm hurtful?? Like because these people were so into him he had to make sure he kept them at a good distance or something.

Just look back at how things ended between Prince and Mico Weaver, Dr Fink, W&L, Sheila, Jill Jones, the Time, Levi Seacer jr Eric Leeds

Exactly. No need to be a bully if you are a good leader.


Leadership does need practice and learning. It's not a skill easily obtained.


Eventhough most bosses think they are good at it. The actually are not.

Self reflection is a pivotal instrument to become a good leader.

right and Prince even said back in the beginning like 1980/81 he was angry alot and he was still dealing with his issues with his father and living house to house(Morris Day, Andre Cymone, Susan Moonsie) and the thirst to make it can be the recipe for trouble(d) relations. No doubt a lot of this was connected to him and his WB battles too.

.

Prince's whole musical vision was more 'fantasy' than reality so blurred lines and emotional attachments were definately heavy back then at least. People who say the Revolution was just a backing band and it was only business etc are not factoring a lot of other things. Prince talked about that in 1990 about his struggle with his emotional attachment, and fear of being left alone. Prior to the NPG the band was not a 4-5year contract band at all. Prince never changed/let go anyone until 1986 with that band and then the Lovesexy band most of that was all emotional stuff.

novabrkr said:

37.

I wonder, what do you mean..

Sorry but I am all clear....... I have no clue.....?

thedance said:

novabrkr said:

37.

I wonder, what do you mean..

Sorry but I am all clear....... I have no clue.....?

lol 37 as Novabrkr's number to the question

How many former collaborators hate Him today? 37

OldFriends4Sale said:

Bambi82 said:

.
Do you know when this happened?
.

What's the story with Candy? I thought she just moved on after the tour, didn't know she was fired.

.

Whoever said they'd all come back and work with hiim if they could is probably right. Wendy even admitted she would. I think P can be an asshole boss but I also think he has to be. You start playing bff wth your staff and nobody takes their job seriously. This is true in any line of work.

No you don't have to be an asshole boss to have a productive work relationship. Would you like to work with an Asshole boss? I know I wouldn't. People like that get hurt later on in different ways. The people in his band (maybe not the Game boyz) were all professional from the start, they believed in Prince and worked hard, the loved the guy too. Prince has personal/emotional issues that cause him to be an 'asshole' You still have to pay people for the work. Also God is Love Love is God doesn't work well with Asshole Boss lol

It could be my thoughts only, but when I look at who he handled those who were in his band/protege bands prior to 1990 he treated those people very ummm hurtful?? Like because these people were so into him he had to make sure he kept them at a good distance or something.

Just look back at how things ended between Prince and Mico Weaver, Dr Fink, W&L, Sheila, Jill Jones, the Time, Levi Seacer jr Eric Leeds

.

You're right, I shouldn't have worded it that way, I just meant that when you're in charge you have to to be assertive and know when to put your foot down in order to keep a tight ship. I think part of the problem is that he kept working with people he was so close to. A lot of them being good friends, exes or family even, they probably felt like they were close enough that they had more say in what was going on than P was willing to give them but on the other hand he probably thought he could be tougher on them because they were close and he expected more from them (or possibly that he was doing so much for them that they should just put up with it which isn't fair) I agree that they should have always been paid what they earned and he could have definitely benefitted from a lesson in proper human relations. I've always felt that he was pushing himself way to hard back them, trying to do too much for everyone else and like you said, the personal stuff he was going through would certainly affect his personality. Who knows? I do hope that he is able to one day mend these broken relationships...

.

[Edited 4/11/14 13:54pm]

novabrkr said:

37.

sounds about right

dJJ said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

No you don't have to be an asshole boss to have a productive work relationship. Would you like to work with an Asshole boss? The people in his band (maybe not the Game boyz) were all professional from the start, they believed in Prince and worked hard, the loved the guy too. Prince has personal/emotional issues that cause him to be an 'asshole' You still have to pay people for the work. Also God is Love Love is God doesn't work well with Asshole Boss lol

It could be my thoughts only, but when I look at who he handled those who were in his band/protege bands prior to 1990 he treated those people very ummm hurtful?? Like because these people were so into him he had to make sure he kept them at a good distance or something.

Just look back at how things ended between Prince and Mico Weaver, Dr Fink, W&L, Sheila, Jill Jones, the Time, Levi Seacer jr Eric Leeds

Exactly. No need to be a bully if you are a good leader.


Leadership does need practice and learning. It's not a skill easily obtained.


Eventhough most bosses think they are good at it. The actually are not.

Self reflection is a pivotal instrument to become a good leader.

I agree.I sometimes wonder how things might have turned out if Prince hadn't been such a dictator.Perhaps some of those bands (The Family,Mazarati,etc) might have stayed together for more than one album.His Paisley Park empire would have been bigger and stronger than ever.

^^^ thanks for the reply, Oldfriends4sale...

37, this makes sense now..