let's list some of his failed business ventures...

1. record label (artists)
2. music distribution
3. movies
4. perfumes
5. retail store
6. night clubs

list more!!

avasdad said:

let's list some of his failed business ventures...

1. record label (artists)

most made money

1. music distribution

how was it bad in theory?

1. movies

2 did well.. all made money

1. perfumes

i am not sure about this one...

1. retail store

made money for several years

1. night clubs

was very popular for a few years, most clubs have a short life.

list more!!

Really:

Best o one the best live performers on the planet.

Accomplished writer, arranger, producer, performers of all-time.

Highly respected in his field on multiple levels.

34 years strong career.

Calls his own shots and is NOT controlled by others.

I'm not exactly sure what u are talking about?

Has he made mistakes? Yes...but who hasn't?

avasdad said:

let's list some of his failed business ventures...

1. record label (artists)

Prince may have been smart jumping ship from WB.

1. music distribution

Very clumbsy execution indeed.

1. movies

Here, the age of movies isn't exactly over. Eminem had success with his movie, so you can still do it. But, UTCM was a bad movie (though entertaining in parts), and Graffiti Bridge was astoundingly bad. Again, clumbsy execution.

1. perfumes

Well, everybody famous puts out something with their name stamped on it. Prince could have had a relatively minor success with 3121 had he actually helped promote it. Hell, even setting up 3121 kiosks to sell it at concerts would have made it wildly popular just based off of Fam dollars.

1. retail store

Yeah, I don't get the appeal of a Prince store to the general public.

1. night clubs

Most nightclubs have a 3-to-5 year run. Glam Slam MIami, I've viisted after it became another club, and it was a large club. Friends of mine who helped set up equipment for Boy George back when he was DJing in Miami said that the Prince club used to be packed, and the music videos played in the club showed dick.

I think most of Prince's problems is that he doesn't really commit or follow through.

Lotusflow3r could have worked had the domain name changed to something more

approachable, the flash technology be removed, and the retail items presented

in a standard format with standard menus that everyone intuitively knew how to

navigate. But, most of all, it could have worked had Prince actually provided fans

with material--good material. Not plastic years nonsense.

This is true with just about everything that he has done... very little follow through.

The times when he has committed (Diamond's & Pearls tour, Musicology Tour, etc.),

he's always had success. LoveSexy wasn't a financial success, but the tour had

a relatively strong run, except for the end---he just spent to much money on the

production.

Ultimately, Prince isn't supposed to be a business man. He's an artist at heart, and

his actions and almost nuerotic shifting of gears only serves to prove that. He should

just continue being the amazing artist that he is....and get a damned manager.

[Edited 8/17/12 19:41pm]

I don't understand the purpose for threads like these? You did this just to prove how awful he is? You are coming from a very far perspective...IMO

You must really be bored and in need for new music!

EyeJester7 said:

I don't understand the purpose for threads like these? You did this just to prove how awful he is? You are coming from a very far perspective...IMO

You must really be bored and in need for new music!

Of course we're all bored.

The other day, I bought an entire roll of bubble wrap, and I don't even have anything to wrap it in. I just like popping the bubbles.

We're bored.

imago said:

avasdad said:

let's list some of his failed business ventures...

1. record label (artists)

Prince may have been smart jumping ship from WB.

1. music distribution

Very clumbsy execution indeed.

1. movies

Here, the age of movies isn't exactly over. Eminem had success with his movie, so you can still do it. But, UTCM was a bad movie (though entertaining in parts), and Graffiti Bridge was astoundingly bad. Again, clumbsy execution.

1. perfumes

Well, everybody famous puts out something with their name stamped on it. Prince could have had a relatively minor success with 3121 had he actually helped promote it. Hell, even setting up 3121 kiosks to sell it at concerts would have made it wildly popular just based off of Fam dollars.

1. retail store

Yeah, I don't get the appeal of a Prince store to the general public.

1. night clubs

Most nightclubs have a 3-to-5 year run. Glam Slam MIami, I've viisted after it became another club, and it was a large club. Friends of mine who helped set up equipment for Boy George back when he was DJing in Miami said that the Prince club used to be packed, and the music videos played in the club showed dick.

I think most of Prince's problems is that he doesn't really commit or follow through.

Lotusflow3r could have worked had the domain name changed to something more

approachable, the flash technology be removed, and the retail items presented

in a standard format with standard menus that everyone intuitively knew how to

navigate. But, most of all, it could have worked had Prince actually provided fans

with material--good material. Not plastic years nonsense.

This is true with just about everything that he has done... very little follow through.

The times when he has committed (Diamond's & Pearls tour, Musicology Tour, etc.),

he's always had success. LoveSexy wasn't a financial success, but the tour had

a relatively strong run, except for the end---he just spent to much money on the

production.

Ultimately, Prince isn't supposed to be a business man. He's an artist at heart, and

his actions and almost nuerotic shifting of gears only serves to prove that. He should

just continue being the amazing artist that he is....and get a damned manager.

[Edited 8/17/12 19:41pm]

Thats it exactly. He seems to "like the idea of doing X" but other than nodding and expecting trucks full of money to turn up outside Paisley Park thats where his commitment stops.

He clearly doesn't like to get his own hands dirty with these ventures. But equally doesn't seem interested in hiring the right people to get it done for him.

The LF website COULD have been stunning. Had the silly flash content been pushed to one side as "interactive album covers" rather than the cental focus of the site. So much of what he does online is needlessly over complicated.

Although credit where it's due. With the GlamSlam clubs he was using video links in the early 90s which was somewhat pioneering. I'm kind of surprised he's not gone back into something similar (well other than his obvious stance on drink and people having fun)

He sure the hell is.

Graycap23 said:

Really:

Best o one the best live performers on the planet.

Accomplished writer, arranger, producer, performers of all-time.

Highly respected in his field on multiple levels.

34 years strong career.

Calls his own shots and is NOT controlled by others.

I'm not exactly sure what u are talking about?

Has he made mistakes? Yes...but who hasn't?

I agree. From what I see he's doing well for himself, even though he may not do what we think he should do.

Actually most of the profitable businesses I know try not to pay any bills until the last minute or after requested to do so after being really late...

Prince fits that profile too!

...So what? Usually people are inclined toward one or another - either they're great at business shit but don't have a creative bone in their body, or they're arty as fuck but then can't even think straight much less handle something as logic-based as math or business-based shit.

Awful, Awful man

"Businessmen" get their profit from many projects in ways that isn't really discussed in public. Having a successful record is hardly the only way to make money in the entertainment industry (in fact, it's one of the least profitable areas of it). I really doubt Prince could have just kept doing one protege album another if it would have meant he's not profiting from them in some manner. Didn't those records at least allow him to have more saying on the matters on WB?

He's stated that he made more money out of "Emancipation" than any of his previous releases because of the way the deal for the record was structured. Then there of course those cases when he has been criticized of taking advantage of people's good faith in him. Taking the advance money from some project and not following it all the way through as intended doesn't sound that different from how "businessmen" these days operate (they make sure they'll make a good amount of money from just about any project even if it the sales aren't very good).

Not that I necessarily feel that sorry for someone like Clive Davis.

[Edited 8/19/12 10:54am]

I would say Prince is an incredibly astute businessman in the big picture. Who else in the industry is making so much money on their own terms for this long?

But I don't think I would want to worjk for him!

avasdad said:

let's list some of his failed business ventures...

1. record label (artists)
2. music distribution
3. movies
4. perfumes
5. retail store
6. night clubs

list more!!

well, he did much better than me!!

So I really can't see he failed.

ufoclub said:

Actually most of the profitable businesses I know try not to pay any bills until the last minute or after requested to do so after being really late...

Prince fits that profile too!

Ha! This is true actually, although you know you've probably gone too far when you end up in court.....multiple times.

avasdad said:

let's list some of his failed business ventures...

1. record label (artists)
2. music distribution
3. movies
4. perfumes
5. retail store
6. night clubs

list more!!

fan clubs

They say he's got about $250 million in the bank.

We should all be so awful at business.

First of all: saying he is an awful business man is just trollingly mean.

I think the better way to say it is he has a patchy track record of business ventures... But you can't fault him for trying all sorts of things.

I would imagine he has been surrounded by people all his life who are hard to trust and are just in it for themselves to make money. I would imagine he has recieved all manner of proposals and it would be hard for anyone to make good decisions surrounded by yes men and untrustworthy people who are trying to screw him over. He has been screwed over plenty of times.

In turn, unfortunately his fans have been screwed over too. I have heard stories that this is pretty common in the music/entertainment business. I have heard to this day, artists like Aretha Franklin demand to be paid for an appearance in cash in advance beforehand. So many snakes out there!

And of course you only need to look at the Jackson family to see just how effed up it can get even from within your own family! People expect free rides from the breadwinners and it can lead to isolation to the artist of trusting no one, even your family members. I have heard Prince has struggled with this and he has had to be tough!

I think Prince's problem is not so much about awful business sense, its more about bad marketing.

Think about it. The fundamentals of marketing is to deliver a product or service to your target audience so that they are satified and begging for more. The key is UNDER promise and OVER deliver. If you can do this, your audience will be happy and willing to pay up. Prince does this no doubt with his music and his live performances, and some of his movies certainly delivered too (PR and SOTT) but some of his other poor marketing decisions? Let's review one example of where I felt his marketing was lackluster:

e.g. Lotusflow3r Website -overcharged and under delivered. Many did not receive T shirts, and felt the site didn't really offer that much tangible value, other than the album download. So, many felt ripped off. Whether or not this was within Prince's control or not, he should have conpensated his fans.

IMO, the NPGMC was much more well managed and executed, as he delivered a stream of content to fans, who received content only avail on that subscription...

So marketing is not only about satifying your target demo, but executing your product or service properly and knowing your audience.

So far as perfumes, retail stores and night clubs... when you get a $100 Million advance in a record deal as he did around '92... these things seem like a good idea and worth trying... Its better to invest into something that could bring a return, than just doing the typical hollywood thing and just blowing it all.... As they said in that documentary about Paisley Park, people thought he was crazy for that, but wouldn't have said a word if he snorted $10M worth of coke up his nose like a rock star....

So... sometimes questionable marketing practises that has sometimes left fans feeling ripped off and exploited... other times amazing.... I have no problem with him cutting the record companies out of the picture, but the downside is that the marketing for Prince has suffered as a result. Record companies back in the 80s and 90s were masterful at creating images for their artists... these days with social media and direct contact with fans, artists have to navigate the dangerous and risky world of creating and maintaining their own images to their fans to varying degrees of success.

Where do we put the newspaper deals?

What about his concert earnings?

Are these above average and/or in need of praise?

I don't know. Even though I felt he could've done more as far as his label and the website and some other issues that weren't exactly cleared out (like the perfume massacre ), he's done pretty well as far as the publishing companies and all that goes. Least he wants to be in control of his money even if it's done selfishly, like some would say.

udo said:

Where do we put the newspaper deals?

In the 'how to dilute your brand' column.

Interesting, coz as far as I can see...he's getting paid, he's independent, he doesn't answer to WB or other big names...but most importantly, he's FREE!

NouveauDance said:

udo said:

Where do we put the newspaper deals?

In the 'how to dilute your brand' column.

Not soo quick.

It depends on the requirements.

He very quickly made a nice sum and dsitributed his CD to a large number of people.

So for that market he covered a large percentage of the potential buyers. And even more people.

Regular apporach was the comparatively slowish sales to first the few hardcore fans and then maybe, when he has a hit or so, the rest of the public.

Still less money than via the newspaper deal.

No, I am not defending him. Just explaining some possible motives.

Case closed. I wish I too were THAT awful a businessman!!

Praxis said:

Interesting, coz as far as I can see...he's getting paid, he's independent, he doesn't answer to WB or other big names...but most importantly, he's FREE!

When people say Prince is a bad business man, they're also looking at it from the consumers side, just in case some of you didn't know.

All this "Well he's getting paid and playing sold out shows without WB nerr, nerrr" stuff is kind of missing half the argument.