Isn't it funny that (AFAIK) no journalist ever ask him WTF he intends to do with all the stuff in his vault? I wonder if this could be in the list of forbidden topics they r given prior to interviwing him...

Anyway, could we collect quotes and facts that may let uss suuppose that Prince may or may not open the vault. No personnal opinions if they are not supported by quotes of facts, please, I don't want this to turn a 100th "why won't Prince release remasters/live DVD's" thread

IN FAVOUR OF OPENING THE VAULT:

- In late 2011, Prince has claimed that there are 3 versions of Extraloveable (which we know is true), and that eventually the 3 of them would be released.

- In late 2010, Prince has claimed to have the intention of releasing remasters with outtakes, including a long version of Adore.

- These last few years, Prince has fobidden fDeluxe and The Original 7ven to use their former names, which seem to indicate that he has plans to rerelease (and own) The Time and The Family's back catalogues.

- In the mid-2000's, Prince has filled requests for copyright of old Paisley Park bands' names, including Mazarati and Good Question (!!!). We now know, thanks to Alan Leeds, that the rights to the masters for most of what was released on Paisley Park reverted back to him when the label was shut down, so these copyright requests seem to indicate that Prince has plans for the whole label's back catalogue.

- IIn 1998, the Prince-written Crystal Ball booklet claimed that The Line will be "released at a later date"

- In the late 90's, Prince claimed to have unknown recordings of him and Miles Davis that would eventually be released. However we know for a fact that there is no such things save 2 versions of Can I Play With U? and one live show featuring Miles Davis, so this quote is ambiguous.

IN FAVOUR OF NOT OPENING THE VAULT:

- These last few years, Prince has been quoted saying that the current state of the music industry, illegal download and the internet did not encourage him to release more music, because it wasn't profitable anymore, and other odd reasons such as diggital formats not being as organic as analogic formats, etc.

- In a 2001 NPG Ahdio Show, the song Asswoop in A Trunk is introduced as being from "the never to be released Madhouse album 24", which may indicate that at least some unreleased projects are intended to remain in the vault.

What else do we have?

This is a musician who is probably feeling his mortality these days.

He publically speaks of time being a trick of the mind, yet he also speaks of his songs

being his children or property for his posterity, and at times seems fixated on this.

My take is that he's saving the material on the vault for which a time his money-making

business model will necessisarily shift focus.

Old boy is NOT going to be able to perform forever nor make the same amounts of

cash that he made performing in the past.

He's gone from an album-centric approach to more or less live performances.

I *do* find it VERY odd taht he's not selling CDs at his concerts though. He could make

a killing selling material directly to his public without the need for a middle man.

What I think is happening is that once he's too old to perform like he does now,

then he will revert his buisiness model (and attention) into releasing studio recordings.

He could easily live off of vault material past and yet-to-be-recorded until his dying day.

databank said:

In the late 90's, Prince claimed to have unknown recordings of him and Miles Davis that would eventually be released. However we know for a fact that there is no such things save 2 versions of Can I Play With U? and one live show featuring Miles Davis, so this quote is ambiguous.

I don't think it is correct to say that 'we know for a fact' that there are no unknown recordings of Prince and Miles Davis. It has been said by some of those who worked with him at the time that they did not know of any unknown recordings.

langebleu said:

databank said:

In the late 90's, Prince claimed to have unknown recordings of him and Miles Davis that would eventually be released. However we know for a fact that there is no such things save 2 versions of Can I Play With U? and one live show featuring Miles Davis, so this quote is ambiguous.

I don't think it is correct to say that 'we know for a fact' that there are no unknown recordings of Prince and Miles Davis. It has been said by some of those who worked with him at the time that they did not know of any unknown recordings.

You are correct, sorry. I based my statement on the famous Alan Leeds' interview, who said that he couldn't believe such a session could have happened without him nor anyone in Prince's camp, Miles' camp and WB knowing about it, and Leeds seemed very certain about what he was saying, but who knows... so let's just say that "it's unlikely that such a session happened"

I think a lot of this is now defunct or just Prince talking out of his ass. Stuff about having 3 versions of Extraloveable and a longer version of Adore - I don't mean that this is a lie, but he says these things off the cuff without any intention that they will followed up or remembered. A lot of the time he can't even remember what he has or hasn't recorded (mistakes in the Crystal Ball liner notes etc), so I don't know why these specific examples should be believed without a pinch of salt.

Things like the Line being released at a later date, he may have intended, and did, to release a CB2, but that was over a decade ago and that idea is long dead in the water.

Also I don't think Prince has any plans for protege acts' releases - the Time and Family issues seemed like more about spite than anything else, and Good Question and Mazarati? I think the that was probably more a legal/copyright expiration thing. I doubt there was any intention for a Good Question remastered special edition when he did that - and I'm sure we're all thankful for that!

I've no doubt he will eventually do more collections of unreleased material, but look at CB - it was a hot mess, so it will always be on his terms. I expect to be listening to bootleg versions for a very long time to come, even if he did officially release some of the same circulating tracks in one form or another.

Dont take this the wrong way.......I adore Prince and I am the first to open my wallet and buy anything new from him - but do you think after all this time the general casual fan of Prince would really want anything from the vault now? A longer version of Adore? - would they really care about that or just see it as an old song? Alot of what is in that vault might sound dated & daggy now?

As I said, I would love to hear it as would any orgers - but I am just wondering how profitable some of this old stuff would be? Unless of course he died - but then I think of the MJ albums that were released of unreleased stuff after he died, and they seemed to flat-line here in Australia.

u forgot that mtv interview where he says he will releas that miles stuff with Kurt Loder

[Edited 8/29/12 9:22am]

On a recent Joe Rogan Experience Podcast, Everlast said that Bill Withers still records songs, but, instead of releasing them, he just locks them up and keeps them to himself. Couldn't help but think of Prince...

gollygirl said:

Dont take this the wrong way.......I adore Prince and I am the first to open my wallet and buy anything new from him - but do you think after all this time the general casual fan of Prince would really want anything from the vault now? A longer version of Adore? - would they really care about that or just see it as an old song? Alot of what is in that vault might sound dated & daggy now?

The general casual fan would be a HELL of a lot more interested in hearing new music from the 82-87 period than an album of new material. People don't trust Prince to put out a good record.

Chris Rock asked him about the vault in an interview. I remember he said he had some of the nastiest songs he ever recorded in the vault as well as psychedelic music by The Time. I think that's what he said, stuck in my head cuz it sounded like a strange concept to me.

He told the guys from the Peach & Black podcast that he had already begun remastering old albums.

It was suggested that suscribers to Lotusflow3r.com would have access to unreleased material from the vault, but.... maybe I'll just leave that alone.

djThunderfunk said:

Chris Rock asked him about the vault in an interview. I remember he said he had some of the nastiest songs he ever recorded in the vault as well as psychedelic music by The Time. I think that's what he said, stuck in my head cuz it sounded like a strange concept to me.

He told the guys from the Peach & Black podcast that he had already begun remastering old albums.

It was suggested that suscribers to Lotusflow3r.com would have access to unreleased material from the vault, but.... maybe I'll just leave that alone.

Oh God no!

NouveauDance said:

I think a lot of this is now defunct or just Prince talking out of his ass. Stuff about having 3 versions of Extraloveable and a longer version of Adore - I don't mean that this is a lie, but he says these things off the cuff without any intention that they will followed up or remembered. A lot of the time he can't even remember what he has or hasn't recorded (mistakes in the Crystal Ball liner notes etc), so I don't know why these specific examples should be believed without a pinch of salt.

Things like the Line being released at a later date, he may have intended, and did, to release a CB2, but that was over a decade ago and that idea is long dead in the water.

Also I don't think Prince has any plans for protege acts' releases - the Time and Family issues seemed like more about spite than anything else, and Good Question and Mazarati? I think the that was probably more a legal/copyright expiration thing. I doubt there was any intention for a Good Question remastered special edition when he did that - and I'm sure we're all thankful for that!

I've no doubt he will eventually do more collections of unreleased material, but look at CB - it was a hot mess, so it will always be on his terms. I expect to be listening to bootleg versions for a very long time to come, even if he did officially release some of the same circulating tracks in one form or another.

Prince considers (and is not wrong in that regard IMHO) that all the music he's recorded for these band is his, and he proved it by including many of his past side-projects songs on the video collection that was on NPGOnlineLtd, in his music rooms on same site, NPG Ahdio Shows, etc, that he cares about these recordings, so I don't think he'll fight with WB for his masters without also fighting for his side-projects' masters. Only an opinion, but knowing him...

As for Good Question, well... being a fan of 80's music I've seen more obscure records being rereleased, some being even worse than Good Question, so well, why not?

+ what's gonna happen with the 2 George Clinton albums, which Prince DO own? They're the only bloody outta print Clinton records nowadays.

I'm still waiting for the day Prince thinks I could handle listening to 'The Divine'

jasontate said:

I'm still waiting for the day Prince thinks I could handle listening to 'The Divine'

Well, that's your opportunity dude: can you DEMONSTRATE in this very thread that you are now ready?

The funny thing is that we are SO not ready for it that even the Princevault page for this song has a bug: http://princevault.com/in...The_Divine (which right now says: "Set $wgShowExceptionDetails = true; at the bottom of LocalSettings.php to show detailed debugging information".)

databank said:

what's gonna happen with the 2 George Clinton albums, which Prince DO own? They're the only bloody outta print Clinton records nowadays.

No they're not. Also out of print by George Clinton:

Some Of My Best Jokes Are Friends

You Shouldn't-Nuf Bit Fish

R&B Skeletons In The Closet

and of course

The Cinderella Theory

Hey Man Smell My Finger

Most of his solo material is out of print...

djThunderfunk said:

Chris Rock asked him about the vault in an interview. I remember he said he had some of the nastiest songs he ever recorded in the vault as well as psychedelic music by The Time. I think that's what he said, stuck in my head cuz it sounded like a strange concept to me.

He told the guys from the Peach & Black podcast that he had already begun remastering old albums.

It was suggested that suscribers to Lotusflow3r.com would have access to unreleased material from the vault, but.... maybe I'll just leave that alone.

I thuoght it was with Kurt Loder where he spoke about that Time (and Rev) vault stuff. While promoting Rave in that MTV interview where he made fun of Loder for running during that Woodstock mud fight riot..

rdhull said:

djThunderfunk said:

Chris Rock asked him about the vault in an interview. I remember he said he had some of the nastiest songs he ever recorded in the vault as well as psychedelic music by The Time. I think that's what he said, stuck in my head cuz it sounded like a strange concept to me.

He told the guys from the Peach & Black podcast that he had already begun remastering old albums.

It was suggested that suscribers to Lotusflow3r.com would have access to unreleased material from the vault, but.... maybe I'll just leave that alone.

I thuoght it was with Kurt Loder where he spoke about that Time (and Rev) vault stuff. While promoting Rave in that MTV interview where he made fun of Loder for running during that Woodstock mud fight riot..

It's VERY possible I'm confusing two different interviews. I haven't rewatched them in years. If you're right, thanks for the correction.

rdhull said:

djThunderfunk said:

Chris Rock asked him about the vault in an interview. I remember he said he had some of the nastiest songs he ever recorded in the vault as well as psychedelic music by The Time. I think that's what he said, stuck in my head cuz it sounded like a strange concept to me.

He told the guys from the Peach & Black podcast that he had already begun remastering old albums.

It was suggested that suscribers to Lotusflow3r.com would have access to unreleased material from the vault, but.... maybe I'll just leave that alone.

I thuoght it was with Kurt Loder where he spoke about that Time (and Rev) vault stuff. While promoting Rave in that MTV interview where he made fun of Loder for running during that Woodstock mud fight riot..

Yeah, I still have that interview. Kurt asked him what would be in the vault and Prince was saying that it's some amazing Jazz work, more tracks from The Revolution (the ones they thought were too far gone), a more rock side or version of The Time, and the really sentual side of Prince. He also stated early in the interview that he's recorded alot with others (such as Lenny K, Miles, etc.) and that he would risk legal issues coming up if he was to release those recordings (for example: those other people wanting to get paid off the recordings that were not in the studio like lawyers, he might risk an artist estate, etc.). Kurt asked Prince when can we hear some of the Miles recordings. Prince response clearly stated that he didn't want to talk about it or at least answer the question.

[Edited 8/28/12 13:43pm]

FunkySideEffects said:

I feel Prince did release music from his vault in the form of 20ten & look how that got massacred by his fans. Why should he open it & release any music when all anyone does is take the piss out of it

Expanding on that thought, I still contend that we are hearing songs from the vault; nearly every album to date contains songs created during the time of a previous project (the best example being Graffitti Bridge). Like all of us here I'd love to have pristine versions of some of the classic booted tracks, or to at least hear some of the legendary uncirculating songs,but as a songwriter he'd be foolish to open up The Vault thereby cutting off a treasure trove of song ideas and basic tracks that could be used for future songs.

On the other hand I'm not sure why he won't release some of the live shows, rehearsals, demos/alternate versions of released tracks, and videos that are collecting dust. Hell, I'd even be interested in just an official list of the media he has locked away in the Paisley

Hills...

djThunderfunk said:

He told the guys from the Peach & Black podcast that he had already begun remastering old albums.

That is true, but from my recollection he didn't actually mention anything about releasing them to the public

[Edited 8/28/12 18:28pm]

I don't want to hear anything from the vault that is going to be censored. With his very strict religious ways now, he won't release any original versions of songs that are too dirty/inappropriate for us to hear.

For every problem there is a solution. If he really wanted to release the music, and have it be a newsworthy and profitable venture, there is a way to do that. I hope it is before too long seeing as we all have a limited time on this Earth.

The French have this concept about a "second death". It's a bit of a spin on the Christian and Jewish concept of the soul's death and condemnation into the lake of fire. The first death, of course, is the physical death we all experience. In this other concept, the "second death" occurs when the last living memory of who we were on this Earth vanishes, i.e. the last living person who remembers us dies. Artists get to cheat this a bit by the work they leave behind, but eventually artists too are forgotten. Unless you are an artist of the stature of a Mozart, Shakespeare, or DaVinci, an artist that has universal and enduring human themes, your art will become irrelevant and no longer speak to an audience.

Prince will be remembered beyond his days, but I wonder how long really? Will anyone in the centuries ahead even really care that there was ever an artist such as Prince? I guess we won't know that.

Good thread.

Can I just start by saying a lot of people have kinda ignored whatthe original poster asked: that we post actual quotes.

I have no quotes at hand, so I guess I'll have my tuppence-worth.

I've always sensed (on the org at least) that what most of us would like to see are re-issues of all of the old WB albums, that include digitally remasterd (NOT remixed) versions of the originals, with a second disc of era-related out-takes.

I'm a big fan of Elvis Costello, and he has done this with his back catalogue and did an amzing job of it. If you're not familiar, try Googling Elvis Costello 2 disc Deluxe Editions. For a fan, these are amazing reissues. They were done so well that I got rid of all my old CD's and actually replaced them with the two disc versions. I could do this because the newer ones didn't omit anything from the old releases - just sounded more crisp to suit today's hifi equipment - and the second disc featured everything from the era. That included era-appropriate b-sides, all remastered (NOT remixed), handfuls of live tracks from era-appropriate shows, dozens of acoustic demos, radio sessions, alternate takes etc.

The deluxe glossy booklets that came with each one featured extensive liner notes written by Elvis himself, along with lots of pictures.

They were released at around £10 each when they first came out, which I saw as fair for such a package. They were also released in phases, with three albums coming out on the same day every four months, grouped together by what EC regarded as themes (eg. 1978's This Year's Model was released on the same day as 1986's Blood & Chocolate and 1994's Brutal Youth because they were all "angry guitar albums"). Imagine how Prince could do the same..?

If Prince - or WB for that matter, I don't care - released the classic era Prince albums in such a way I would be delighted, excited, and saving my pennies up.

Sorry for the long reply, but this is something I've been craving for years!

djThunderfunk said:

databank said:

what's gonna happen with the 2 George Clinton albums, which Prince DO own? They're the only bloody outta print Clinton records nowadays.

No they're not. Also out of print by George Clinton:

Some Of My Best Jokes Are Friends

You Shouldn't-Nuf Bit Fish

R&B Skeletons In The Closet

and of course

The Cinderella Theory

Hey Man Smell My Finger

Most of his solo material is out of print...

My mistake, sorry, it was written on a wikipedia page and I just didn't care to check. It's quite certain that P has them and not WB, though, as Hey Man was rereleased by Edel (and I believe -but not sure- to remember that Cinderella was among the planned Edel reissues from 1994).

It's a pity the Capitol albums are OOP too: they're bloody great

databank said:

Prince considers (and is not wrong in that regard IMHO) that all the music he's recorded for these band is his, and he proved it by including many of his past side-projects songs on the video collection that was on NPGOnlineLtd, in his music rooms on same site, NPG Ahdio Shows, etc, that he cares about these recordings, so I don't think he'll fight with WB for his masters without also fighting for his side-projects' masters. Only an opinion, but knowing him...

I agree in general, but I still don't think he had/has any interest in putting out any reissues/remasters etc of PP Records artists, I think he was just cockblocking.

electricberet said:

I am going to go out on a limb here and predict (on the basis of no information) that we will get a deluxe Purple Rain 30th anniversary box set in 2014 that will include a remix of the original album plus some outtakes and other goodies as part of a package deal and peacemaking deal with Warner. Prince will release an album of new material on Warner at the same time and go out on tour to support both. Other reissues will follow in cheap cardboard sleeves. Fans will complain that the box could have been much better, the new album is lame, and the tour is just the same old material we've been hearing for years. Eventually a consensus will emerge that the original CD was much better than the remix. All of this is pure fantasy, but if it happens remember that I called it.

Wouldn't surprise me in the least... Hope you're wrong, though.