I just wish I was a bit more like EyeJester.

iloveannie said:

I just wish I was a bit more like EyeJester.

Then again I also wish I was more like my dog, always happy, always energetic.

@wonder .. it is my burden to bear to influence prince to make better music

i will likely buy whatever prince has put out for the next 50 years .. simply to search for that spark of quality music he once had .. thats not obsession .. just knowing he can deliver if he wants to and hoping he does .. i will feel free to complain if the music sucks because i know he can do better

@1725topp .. for a guy who wants to back slowly from this discussion you sure do type a lot

you seem confused .. this will end when you accept the truth .. the truth is absolute .. truth is not philisophical .. opinion comes from self doubt .. truth is not an opinion .. the vibration of every atom is circular .. without circular conclusion there is no truth .. when the circular ends life ends ..

what makes no sense is those who post on threads that are clearly inviting critique as tho it is a 'prince can do no wrong' thread .. i enjoy perspectives but to act like my opinion is obsession or overly redundant is a cowards rebuttal to intent of the thread

you will find i stay mostly positive on positive threads .. actually i am positive about most things i say on any thread .. what you see as negative is actually honest and therefore constructive and positive .. your perspective is what has a negative impact on the truth .. your clouded and flawed perspective results in critiquing the author of a post instead of discussing the topic at hand .. instead of accepting the truth or discussing the merits of my statements related to the thread subject, you choose to attempt to undermine my character because you can't undermine the truth i present because it is absolute and not opinion

furthermore .. prince singing act of god is equivalent to a politician kissing a baby while taking money from global oppressors who will steal your money, health, liberty and life. when prince stops bragging about his money and writing songs suggesting that women should want him for his money cuz hes got a lot .. and refering to women as "pretty things" .. maybe i will take him seriously and find value in what he produces .. prince materalism does not jive with his supposed religion .. i call faker and it shows in his music ..

TrevorAyer said:

@wonder .. it is my burden to bear to influence prince to make better music

i will likely buy whatever prince has put out for the next 50 years .. simply to search for that spark of quality music he once had .. thats not obsession .. just knowing he can deliver if he wants to and hoping he does .. i will feel free to complain if the music sucks because i know he can do better

@1725topp .. for a guy who wants to back slowly from this discussion you sure do type a lot

you seem confused .. this will end when you accept the truth .. the truth is absolute .. truth is not philisophical .. opinion comes from self doubt .. truth is not an opinion .. the vibration of every atom is circular .. without circular conclusion there is no truth .. when the circular ends life ends ..

what makes no sense is those who post on threads that are clearly inviting critique as tho it is a 'prince can do no wrong' thread .. i enjoy perspectives but to act like my opinion is obsession or overly redundant is a cowards rebuttal to intent of the thread

you will find i stay mostly positive on positive threads .. actually i am positive about most things i say on any thread .. what you see as negative is actually honest and therefore constructive and positive .. your perspective is what has a negative impact on the truth .. your clouded and flawed perspective results in critiquing the author of a post instead of discussing the topic at hand .. instead of accepting the truth or discussing the merits of my statements related to the thread subject, you choose to attempt to undermine my character because you can't undermine the truth i present because it is absolute and not opinion

furthermore .. prince singing act of god is equivalent to a politician kissing a baby while taking money from global oppressors who will steal your money, health, liberty and life. when prince stops bragging about his money and writing songs suggesting that women should want him for his money cuz hes got a lot .. and refering to women as "pretty things" .. maybe i will take him seriously and find value in what he produces .. prince materalism does not jive with his supposed religion .. i call faker and it shows in his music ..

Trevor,

I must admit, you are doing quite a good job of holding your own with 1725topp, but the bolded part above made me giggle.

Perhaps, however, it is worthwile considering a ceasefire? Both of you have made vaild points, a number of which are not diametrically opposed. But I would also hazard a guess that neither of you like 'losing' a debate.

Of course, you say otherwise, but you & I know what time it is. Cue the music: Lion of Judah, for both you and 1725.

love,

Spirit

TrevorAyer said:

@wonder .. it is my burden to bear to influence prince to make better music

i will likely buy whatever prince has put out for the next 50 years .. simply to search for that spark of quality music he once had .. thats not obsession .. just knowing he can deliver if he wants to and hoping he does .. i will feel free to complain if the music sucks because i know he can do better

umm that is an obsession IMO . and since you admit its your burden then your dissastisfaction with Prince's music is your problem, not his. Feel free to complain for the rest of your life. Thank God I don't feel the same way. The journey to me is more fun when you enjoy his music. but I understand we all have different taste.

[Edited 8/13/12 7:20am]

TrevorAyer said:

@wonder .. it is my burden to bear to influence prince to make better music

i will likely buy whatever prince has put out for the next 50 years .. simply to search for that spark of quality music he once had .. thats not obsession .. just knowing he can deliver if he wants to and hoping he does .. i will feel free to complain if the music sucks because i know he can do better

All yall complainers been saying that since 1998. On some excuse bullshit lol. Face it. You ARE obsessed more that the so called fam fams. Thats why yall always rant an rave after each release for the past 15 years on the net. Yall are in deep deep denial and also repressing your fam obsession with Prince. Buying every release even though it supposedly sucks and isnt any good, getting every bootleg of a live performance of a supposed crap performance. All this 20 year holding on because "I know he can do better" is so irrational lol. Yall are basically the same folks who post about Princes shapely ass, his fantastic shirt, his seductive makeup etc etc lmao.

Oh..and its "your burden to"..ahem.."influence Prince to make better music"..? Let's now add delusional to the list.

You guys are dangerous in real life.

TrevorAyer said: you seem confused .. this will end when you accept the truth .. the truth is absolute .. truth is not philosophical .. opinion comes from self doubt .. truth is not an opinion .. the vibration of every atom is circular .. without circular conclusion there is no truth .. when the circular ends life ends ..

*

A basic or fundamental lesson in rhetoric or persuasive writing is that if one can’t provide empirical evidence for one’s stated position then that position is an opinion, not truth, and that unsubstantiated position is usually based on circular reasoning whereby the speaker attempts to prove one’s point not with evidence but by simply saying or asserting “because I said so,” which is what you are doing. What is the truth? How is the truth absolute? And what makes your notion that the truth is absolute any different than Prince’s notion of absolute truth? If you cannot answer these last two questions with objective examples or empirical evidence to clarify your statement or position, then your points, position, or statements are circular and based on vague opinion, which also makes your position ironic, if not hypocritical, because you are accusing Prince of the same flawed logic or judgment that you are using. Furthermore, my showing how flawed your points and position are is not me attacking you; I am simply deconstructing your position. This is basic rhetoric and persuasive writing and not personal attack.

*

TrevorAyer said: to act like my opinion is obsession or overly redundant is a coward’s rebuttal to intent of the thread

*

While someone else inferred that you are obsessed, I never said that your “opinion is obsession or overly redundant.” I said that your points and position are vague, overly general, and unsubstantiated. Again, by deconstructing your argument I am not attacking you. I am simply deconstructing your points and position. Again, this is basic rhetoric and persuasive writing and not personal attack. However, is it not hypocritical of you to call me a name—a coward—after charging and admonishing me for doing the same? I never called you a name. I stated that your points and positions are a bit irrational if not just unsubstantiated, but, again, that is me deconstructing your argument, not attacking you. You, on the other hand, have attacked me personally by inferring that I am a coward.

*

TrevorAyer said: what you see as negative is actually honest and therefore constructive and positive .. your perspective is what has a negative impact on the truth .. your clouded and flawed perspective results in critiquing the author of a post instead of discussing the topic at hand .. instead of accepting the truth or discussing the merits of my statements related to the thread subject, you choose to attempt to undermine my character because you can't undermine the truth i present because it is absolute and not opinion

*

Please show me where I have once attacked your character. As I have stated twice, I never attacked you. I only addressed the flaws in your argument. But, you can prove me wrong simply by showing or providing objective examples or empirical evidence that your truth is absolute and that your concept of absolute truth is different than Prince’s concept of absolute truth.

*

TrevorAyer said: furthermore .. prince singing act of god is equivalent to a politician kissing a baby while taking money from global oppressors who will steal your money, health, liberty and life. when prince stops bragging about his money and writing songs suggesting that women should want him for his money cuz hes got a lot .. and refering to women as "pretty things" .. maybe i will take him seriously and find value in what he produces .. prince materialism does not jive with his supposed religion .. i call faker and it shows in his music ..

*

We’ve had this debate before. I disagreed with you then, and I disagree with you now. If “Act of God” is the only song in which Prince supports and celebrates the metaphysical as more important than the physical, then your “politician kissing the baby” analogy would be sound or correct. But, in fact, the vast majority of Prince’s songs celebrate the metaphysical over the physical. And often when Prince is singing about the physical, especially materialism, he is being “tongue in cheek.” That is, it is usually a joke. As for referring to women as “pretty things,” the phrase or image is a pun or a play on words to make his point in “I’m the One U Wanna C” that he has enough money to purchase most material “things” but what is most important is gaining the attention of the female. Thus, “things” or “pretty things” is a witticism or a play on words. She is more pretty and meaningful than the inanimate objects that he can purchase with money. So, again, the song is celebrating the metaphysical (human relationship) over the physical (material things) by saying that money and things are meaningless without someone with whom to share it. And, not to attack you, but you, so far, are the only person I know who doesn’t get or understand the point that the song is trying to make. Now, maybe, someone else will post and state that they understand or interpret the song as you do, but I’d be willing to bet that most people think that Prince, by referring to the female as a “pretty thing,” is troping the word “thing” to create a pun or witticism to make his point that human relationships are more important than acquiring money and things.

*

Now, I want to be clear. Prince and no one else is perfect. We live in a physical world. We are physical and metaphysical beings for those of us who believe in a god or a higher spiritual power. People need food, shelter, clothing, modes of transportation, and most desire sex. So, physical needs and desires are natural parts of existence. And, the struggle to balance or navigate the physical and metaphysical elements or realms of life is also a natural part of life. And what I love about Prince is that he has never avoided that struggle, and he has often engaged or discussed that struggle in a realistic, creative, and insightful way. His getting paid to be an artist does not in any way lessen the art that he has created about the struggle to balance the metaphysical and the physical. And most people who say they would continue their job even if they were not getting paid are lying. So, the best that I can do is simply to disagree that Prince is a faker when it comes to his convictions because from 1978 to 2010 the vast majority of Prince’s songs celebrate the metaphysical as more important than the physical, and this includes many of the sexually themed songs where sex is often a metaphor used to discuss the human neurosis.

I always felt Prince's greatest creative period took place from 1981 (Controversy) through 1987 (Sign O' The Times)

He was releasing new albums on the average of every year, not even counting the number of artists he produced music for

AROUND THE WORLD IN A DAY didn't receive the critical acclaim as it should, maybe because it followed his landmark album PURPLE RAIN

PARADE was exceptional.....that song MOUNTAINS would bring happy tears to my eyes....

those years represented the full range

I think what happened to Prince is the same thing that happened to many of those most successful artists of the 1980s, they fell victim to the pop ascension movement that stifled the direction their music should have continued to follow

the pop ascension rooted our true r&b representation and has phased it out altogether

but once things for sure, Prince crafted a number of some of the greatest slow jams of all time

to this day, INTERNATIONAL LOVER stands as the most sensual jam I've ever heard, but done so in a way that didn't exploit sex but highlighted the power of human sexuality

I was 10 years old when that jam came out and it's as thorough now as it was when it was initially released.....

jayARDAHB said:

NouveauDance said:

So your conclusion is everyone who doesn't like Prince 00's music is just ignorant?

Well, what else could it be? [Insert Sarcasm]

Prince has always been religious and a believer in the christian god-but

he was just alot more creative and less direct about it in his pre-jw songs...he used more metaphors and clever lyrics/imagry mixed with sexuality...now adays , for whatever reason, he seems more direct in his lyrics

re wonder .. it is your opinion that i am obsessed .. it is my truth that i am not .. you have no position to judge .. i might buy the new janes addiction or cure or frank black or ani difranco record to check them out just as i might buy the new prince record .. thats normal .. they moved me once why not give them another shot .. they may all suck at the end of the day but i love music and checking it out and seeing what makes it tick .. i also enjoy posting here and critiquing and analyzing how music works .. this forum is great for that .. i never post about prince ass except when discussing his pros and cons of clothing .. which is also an elemant of the music business worth discussing ... you seem to confuse me with those who follow prince because he is cute .. your statement is opinion because you don't believe in your own opinion enough to state it as truth .. that is because you know its not true .. my truth comes from honesty and self knowing .. i speak of myself .. not you .. and therefore my statements are pure truth from a place of knowing .. your statements are from a place of not knowing me .. or my motivations and you are just guessing .. i corrected your "opinion" once but you chose to ignore .. ignorance .. now you are simply using the word obsessed as a weapon to poke because you have no other tools in your debate tool box

re 1275topp .. my apoligies for my paragraph structure .. some of my response was intended specifically for you .. the rest was an overall response to the both of you .. wonder called me obsessed and that is a cowardly way to approach a discussion .. however i did not at any point say .. 1275topp is a coward .. i made a statement about what was cowardly that had been written before .. so in that sense its not fair play to read THAT much into my paragraph ..

furthermore .. truth is absolute .. if i see a broken down car and say .. that car is fucked it wont work anymore .. that is opinion .. if a mechanic comes along and says .. well all you need to do is fix this and that and its good as new .. and he goes and does it .. was what he said opinion too? .. no he knows cars and how they work and he knows the truth about what can and can't be done .. that is absolute truth .. that can be relied on .. i could go on with a million other examples .. but if you have an "opinion" and i have a "truth" certainly the person who knows what they are talking about would not minimize their knowledge by calling it an opinion .. there for the person of opinion should show respect for those who know better .. yet those with opinions tend to think everyone should be as unknowledgeable about music, prince, religion etc .. as they are and act as such .. i find that absurd .. thats like a kindergardener telling the teacher that everything she says is just opinion and therefore not as valid as what the kindergardener thinks about say .. what 2+2 equals.

as for prince materialism .. lets look at rap for a moment .. a common complaint amongst rappers is that they started as a more human art form .. positive messages .. yet along the way the record execs started pushing all the rappers to rap about expensive cars and hos and all things materialistic and degrading ... now look at prince .. who went from being very positve and consious to talking and rapping about how rich he is .. all the fancy shit he has .. and all the women he has .. his romantic and poetic .. even if sometimes over the top .. poetry degraded to cheap thrills and just plain pornographic imagery .. there are NUMEROUS songs that focus on cheap materialism and promoting a shallow materialistic idealogy .. there is nothing about anything that i have said that can't be backed up by putting on a prince record and listening to the lyrics

and even prince cares very little for his post wb output .. so lets not say i don't back up my truthes when the music itself supports my position in every aspect .. look at any of his religious themes of the past .. beautifully and simply laid out with poetry, confusion, contradiction and honesty .. move forward to rainbow chillin where he cites scripture and passes it off as lyrics and then intertwines this overly intilectualized supposed message with an outro of a woman getting wet with a vibrator .. come on .. go ahead play muse to the pharoah and question of you back to back and tell me nu prince doesnt just suck .. yeah great nice sounds on rainbow .. organic even .. but the lyrics .. the part that really expresses where prince head is at is just so far gone .. thats truth

TrevorAyer said:

re wonder .. it is your opinion that i am obsessed .. it is my truth that i am not .. you have no position to judge .. i might buy the new janes addiction or cure or frank black or ani difranco record to check them out just as i might buy the new prince record .. thats normal .. they moved me once why not give them another shot .. they may all suck at the end of the day but i love music and checking it out and seeing what makes it tick .. i also enjoy posting here and critiquing and analyzing how music works .. this forum is great for that .. i never post about prince ass except when discussing his pros and cons of clothing .. which is also an elemant of the music business worth discussing ... you seem to confuse me with those who follow prince because he is cute .. your statement is opinion because you don't believe in your own opinion enough to state it as truth .. that is because you know its not true .. my truth comes from honesty and self knowing .. i speak of myself .. not you .. and therefore my statements are pure truth from a place of knowing .. your statements are from a place of not knowing me .. or my motivations and you are just guessing .. i corrected your "opinion" once but you chose to ignore .. ignorance .. now you are simply using the word obsessed as a weapon to poke because you have no other tools in your debate tool box

Everything that everyone post here is an opinion, observation or speculation. No of us know each other personally and none of us know Prince. When we do start acting as if our opinion is the truth then it becomes a delusion, especially since you think you actually have some influence on Prince from your statements (as you stated above), which you don't. I find it interesting that you speak of me not knowing you or about truth when you speak of Prince as if you know him personally or know what's going on in his mind and heart just because you don't like his music. You can believe in what you believe in but unless you know him personally it will be nothing more than an opinion not a fact.

Just like you are free to state your observations on an open messageboard, so am I. Complaining about an artist who has not dropped a single song that you liked in 15+ years or however and continuing to follow his music despite not being satisfied and then keep complaining about is an obsession. I think another poster put it well. If that is how you choose to spend time then that is fine.

[Edited 8/14/12 10:45am]

'recently' I look at Prince + Sheila E, and she's probably more vocal about her beliefs and what it means to her, and she has openly been more visibibly connected to the 'church' community, but Sheila will still get on stage in the last year till now and perform & sing Erotic City

OldFriends4Sale said:

'recently' I look at Prince + Sheila E, and she's probably more vocal about her beliefs and what it means to her, and she has openly been more visibibly connected to the 'church' community, but Sheila will still get on stage in the last year till now and perform & sing Erotic City

Really? I thought I read somewhere that she refuses to sing some of the lyrics, but I'm glad cuz she's coming to NYC on August 29

re wonder .. fyi it is only in the last year or so that i have concluded that most of his post wb output is unlistenable .. prior to that .. the good in those half baked post wb songs kept me coming back for more .. however .. after 20 years of half baked records i have finally reached a point where i think prince needs some honest critique from his fans instead of putting up with a great line or catchy chorus here and there .. i want a full song that he does not ruin with crappy shallow lyrics or gimicks ..

for example .. love has a great chorus .. but the rest of the song sounds like a video arcade

lolita has pretty good music .. but the song is about resisting his desire to fuck an underage girl .. how christian of him .. eye roll ... its just creepy and gross .. still i applaud that he sang that perverted shit on american idol .. so see .. i dont think prince is all bad

and if you have been reading MY posts for 15 + years than it is you who are obsessed .. with me .. i am flattered .. move over prince .. there is a new super genuis in the world of wonder

what you call obsession and delusion i call good natured fun and honest observation .. the fact that you attack me and defend prince and his lazy records he makes in about a day .. is more an indication of you obsessive prince worship and less an indication of your willingness to hear ideas that contradict the pedastal you place prince on ..

TrevorAyer said:

re wonder .. fyi it is only in the last year or so that i have concluded that most of his post wb output is unlistenable .. prior to that .. the good in those half baked post wb songs kept me coming back for more .. however .. after 20 years of half baked records i have finally reached a point where i think prince needs some honest critique from his fans instead of putting up with a great line or catchy chorus here and there .. i want a full song that he does not ruin with crappy shallow lyrics or gimicks ..

for example .. love has a great chorus .. but the rest of the song sounds like a video arcade

lolita has pretty good music .. but the song is about resisting his desire to fuck an underage girl .. how christian of him .. eye roll ... its just creepy and gross .. still i applaud that he sang that perverted shit on american idol .. so see .. i dont think prince is all bad

and if you have been reading MY posts for 15 + years than it is you who are obsessed .. with me .. i am flattered .. move over prince .. there is a new super genuis in the world of wonder

what you call obsession and delusion i call good natured fun and honest observation .. the fact that you attack me and defend prince and his lazy records he makes in about a day .. is more an indication of you obsessive prince worship and less an indication of your willingness to hear ideas that contradict the pedastal you place prince on ..

I have not been reading your post 15 years silly . Actually, I only became a Prince fan again back in 2004 because he stopped making music I like after 1988, so I stopped following him during the 90's even though there were a few songs I like. So you can never in a million years categorize me as an obsessive fan because I have demonstrated the ability to walk away and follow artists that catch my interest, mostly indie. I dont' obsessively follow any artist if they don't interest me and I don't read anyones post who play the same broken I'm an unsatisfied fan for 15 years. You also will never find me liking every song any artists creates. I've made it clear on this board that I am not a fan of Planet Earth, Musicology, or 20Ten although 20 Ten is growing on me with a few songs. I dont think anything in my post is a personal attack. I never sad you were a bad person or anything like that. I just feel that obsessive falls on both sides of the coin, the ones who support and ones who complain for sooooo long.

[Edited 8/14/12 11:16am]

wonder505 said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

'recently' I look at Prince + Sheila E, and she's probably more vocal about her beliefs and what it means to her, and she has openly been more visibibly connected to the 'church' community, but Sheila will still get on stage in the last year till now and perform & sing Erotic City

Really? I thought I read somewhere that she refuses to sing some of the lyrics, but I'm glad cuz she's coming to NYC on August 29

yep, check out the Associate Artists forum the thread on Sheila E & FDeluxe setlist there is a clip of a show: she does-the Belle of St Mark(Glamorous Life) Erotic City Koo Koo http://prince.org/msg/5/385060

I know they are sings straight thru the lyrics, if they aren't saying "fuck" they are saying something pretty close... creamy thighs n all

TrevorAyer said:

re wonder .. fyi it is only in the last year or so that i have concluded that most of his post wb output is unlistenable .. prior to that .. the good in those half baked post wb songs kept me coming back for more .. however .. after 20 years of half baked records i have finally reached a point where i think prince needs some honest critique from his fans instead of putting up with a great line or catchy chorus here and there .. i want a full song that he does not ruin with crappy shallow lyrics or gimicks ..

for example .. love has a great chorus .. but the rest of the song sounds like a video arcade

lolita has pretty good music .. but the song is about resisting his desire to fuck an underage girl .. how christian of him .. eye roll ... its just creepy and gross .. still i applaud that he sang that perverted shit on american idol .. so see .. i dont think prince is all bad

and if you have been reading MY posts for 15 + years than it is you who are obsessed .. with me .. i am flattered .. move over prince .. there is a new super genuis in the world of wonder

what you call obsession and delusion i call good natured fun and honest observation .. the fact that you attack me and defend prince and his lazy records he makes in about a day .. is more an indication of you obsessive prince worship and less an indication of your willingness to hear ideas that contradict the pedastal you place prince on ..

why do have this absurd belief that people who like some of prince's recent work are liars or obsessive fans? Don't you realise that people have different tastes? Its not worship at all. You simply refuse to believe that other people might actually like the music. Do you actually believe that fans here who praise albums like lotus3flwer and 3121 are merely pretending to do so because of "worship"? or because they actually like it.

Your argument makes little sense, you continously try to insist that everyone is involved in kissing up to prince. It could not be further from the truth. Most people who haven't liked an artists work in over 20 years move on.

[Edited 8/14/12 19:57pm]

I must add, there is nothing wrong with not liking prince's recent music. what is wrong, however, is attacking people's taste and claiming that people who do like prince's recent music are "fams", "worshippers" "kiss ups" etc etc.

Religion ruins anyone... It is one thing to be religious and another to have a personal relationship with God.

Religion or being religious is doing something for God because you think you have to (a obligation),or feel guilty if you do not. For example going to church. One should want to go to church because he/she loves God not because he/she feels it the right thing to do, or someone pressures them to go.

A personal or spirtiual relationship with God (which is what I believe Prince has),brings joy into our lives by serving him, doing the right things because we know it makes him happy and because we love him. I for one am happy to see that Prince has a personal relationship with God he has had one for many years, he has matured through the years in his relationship with him.

His decisions not to play particular songs from the past because of the content they contain or swear e.t.c are because he wants to honor God, in doing the right things.

One last thing I just want to say:

Prince keep praying everyday, keep asking God what can you do for him that he would be honored by, you are blessed and highly favored.... I am praying for you always.

hhhhdmt said: why do have this absurd belief that people who like some of prince's recent work are liars or obsessive fans? Don't you realize that people have different tastes? It’s not worship at all. You simply refuse to believe that other people might actually like the music. Do you actually believe that fans here who praise albums like lotus3flwer and 3121 are merely pretending to do so because of "worship"? or because they actually like it. Your argument makes little sense, you continuously try to insist that everyone is involved in kissing up to prince. It could not be further from the truth.

*

I agree with this statement one hundred percent. In fact, one of the most bewildering and, I’ll admit, frustrating things about this site is the number of people, not just TrevorAyer, who insist that those of us who like Prince’s post 2000 work are liars, ass kissers, kook-aid drinkers, obsessive, fucked in the head, or just don’t know music. It is amazing to me how so many people are so myopic or self-absorbed that they can’t fathom that someone would have different tastes in music than they would.

*

TrevorAyer said: furthermore .. truth is absolute .. if i see a broken down car and say .. that car is fucked it won’t work anymore .. that is opinion .. if a mechanic comes along and says .. well all you need to do is fix this and that and its good as new .. and he goes and does it .. was what he said opinion too? .. no he knows cars and how they work and he knows the truth about what can and can't be done .. that is absolute truth .. that can be relied on .. i could go on with a million other examples .. but if you have an "opinion" and i have a "truth" certainly the person who knows what they are talking about would not minimize their knowledge by calling it an opinion .. there for the person of opinion should show respect for those who know better .. yet those with opinions tend to think everyone should be as unknowledgeable about music, prince, religion etc .. as they are and act as such .. i find that absurd .. that’s like a kindergartener telling the teacher that everything she says is just opinion and therefore not as valid as what the kindergartener thinks about say .. what 2+2 equals.

*

You completely lost me after your example about the mechanic. I understand and agree with the example of the mechanic, but everything else you stated is just vague because you never specifically stated how your notion of “absolute truth” is different than Prince’s notion of “absolute truth”. And more specifically, what you say about Prince being a faker or being washed up or having lost his way is just an opinion. That is not absolute truth because neither you nor anyone else has the right to tell Prince what his path should be. Now, if you have some knowledge that you think may be helpful for Prince, you can discuss where Prince is making certain mistakes and show evidence of how what he is doing is hurting himself and possibly others, but unless you a discussing an issue such as smoking where there is scientific (empirical) evidence about smoking, everything you assert, though well-meaning, is an opinion and is the same thing that Prince is doing with his religious position, no matter how much he believes he is right and no matter how well-intentioned he may be. Yet, the true responsibility is on the receiver of the art/message to be a critical thinker, examine the art/message, take what one can use, and reject what one can’t use. Now, if you think that the art that Prince is producing is dangerous to himself or others, you certainly have a right to address it, but if you are rooting your position in a moral notion or a notion of absolute truth rather than scientific knowledge/evidence, then you are no more right or less opinioned than Prince.

*

TrevorAyer said: as for prince materialism .. let’s look at rap for a moment .. a common complaint amongst rappers is that they started as a more human art form .. positive messages .. yet along the way the record execs started pushing all the rappers to rap about expensive cars and hos and all things materialistic and degrading ... now look at prince .. who went from being very positive and conscious to talking and rapping about how rich he is .. all the fancy shit he has .. and all the women he has .. his romantic and poetic .. even if sometimes over the top .. poetry degraded to cheap thrills and just plain pornographic imagery .. there are NUMEROUS songs that focus on cheap materialism and promoting a shallow materialistic ideology .. there is nothing about anything that i have said that can't be backed up by putting on a prince record and listening to the lyrics

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“Hey sugar I got sugar cane that I want to lose in you cause I can’t stand the pain,” is from “Soft and Wet,” which is from For You. “Sex related fantasy is all that my mind can see. Baby, that’s honestly the way I feel” is from “When We’re Dancing Close and Slow” from Prince. “Now morning, noon, and night I give you head ‘til you burning up, head ‘til you get enough” is from, of course, “Head,” which is from Dirty Mind. “I want to fuck the taste out of your mouth” is from “Automatic,” which is from 1999. And don’t forget Prince wrote the lyrics to “Cool,” “Get It Up,” “Wild and Loose,” and “The Walk.” So, Prince didn’t all of the sudden become sexually explicit. He began sexually explicit. What separated him was his ability to discuss other issues, or as my father used to say, take his listeners further than the sheets, and his ability to trope his sexual explicitness as a metaphor for issues. That is the allure or Prince, his ability to pen songs about various aspects of life and bridge those songs and subject matter with the notion that we all struggle to balance this issues, especially the struggle of the physical and the metaphysical. And as for those “numerous songs that focus on cheap materialism and promoting a shallow materialistic ideology,” let us have a contest if you will. I bet that for every one of those “songs that focus on cheap materialism” I can provide five songs that celebrate the metaphysical over the physical. And to go further, based on what I see as your flawed analysis of “Act of God,” I’m almost certain that for half of the songs that you list I’ll be able to show how your interpretation is flawed and that even those songs ultimately celebrate the metaphysical over the physical. Now, I cannot tell you what or how to feel when you hear a Prince song. But, based on the lyrics (images) of Prince’s body of work, he has produced many more songs that celebrate the metaphysical over the physical than he has produced songs that simply glorify the physical. And that trend continues post 2000.

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TrevorAyer said: and even prince cares very little for his post wb output .. so let’s not say i don't back up my truths when the music itself supports my position in every aspect .. look at any of his religious themes of the past .. beautifully and simply laid out with poetry, confusion, contradiction and honesty .. move forward to rainbow chillin where he cites scripture and passes it off as lyrics and then intertwines this overly intellectualized supposed message with an outro of a woman getting wet with a vibrator .. come on .. go ahead play muse to the pharaoh and question of you back to back and tell me nu prince doesn’t just suck .. yeah great nice sounds on rainbow .. organic even .. but the lyrics .. the part that really expresses where prince head is at is just so far gone .. that’s truth

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I keep hearing that Prince cares very little about his post Warner Bros. output, but I have yet to find any evidence of this. This has been debated at length on this site, and while Prince plays mostly hits because that is what casual fans want and because most of the so-called die-hard fans on this site have complained for years about his new work, it seems that Prince simply plays the hits as a way to pack major arena because the casual fan has not followed Prince’s work since 1992 or so. (And, again, Prince’s popularity began to decrease around ’93-’94, well before his embracing of the JW faith.) Yet, when I was compiling my own bootleg DVD of just new songs released between 2005 and 2010 being performed live in concert, I was surprised to find that I had an almost three-hour DVD. No, he does not play the new work nearly as much as the hits, but he has not completely ignored the new work as you and many others claim. So the opinion that Prince seems like to like his post Warner Bros work or his post 2000 work seems to be flawed.

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As for the religious songs/output of the Warner Bros. era, I dare you to name one that isn’t rooted in the Judeo-Christian ideology. Whether it is “Second Coming,” “Annie Christian,” “Free,” “God,” “Temptation,” even songs like “Around the World in a Day,” “Paisley Park,” "Lovesexy," and "Eye No" are rooted in the Judeo-Christian ideology, which is why I continue to say that if you didn’t see TRC coming either you were not listening or were blinded by your own issues or anger with Christianity. Additionally, I love “Muse to the Pharaoh,” which is loosely based on the story of Solomon’s relationship with an African queen, which is effectively enhanced with Prince’s quoting of Proverbs 31 as Solomon is the author of most of the book of Proverbs, which, again, shows Prince’s skill as writer to weave this historical parts. It is a beautiful song which stresses that romantic relationships must be based on communication. Far too many people develop relationships without discussing and understanding each person’s ideology, and a good amount of “Muse to the Pharaoh” is expressing the need for each person in the relationship to understand what is important to the other. Thus, it is not surprising that the song ends by asserting that for this relationship to last the two people must have the same idea about religion. Now, whether one agrees with Prince’s religious stance, I think that most on this site can agree that it is important for two people to have an understanding of each other’s religious principles before attempting to build a relationship. In fact, more relationship would be healthy and long-lasting if more people had these conversations at the beginning of the relationship.

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And as for the sexuality of TRC, the Bible states that “a wife’s breasts are to be pleasing to a husband.” And if you read Song of Solomon, also written by Solomon, that is some pretty intense sexual stuff. So, while the Bible or Christianity does assert that sex should be between a man and a woman during marriage, once married sex should be pleasurable and engaged as much as possible. In fact, most of the negative sentiments about sex or the whole Victorian notion of sex for reproduction and not for recreation comes from the writings of St. Augustine and not the Bible. Now, again, Christianity does state that sex should be limited to a man and a woman in marriage, but once married those two people should let the freak flag wave high. And while I’m not going to lie and say that I didn’t have premarital sex, I do think that a lot of society’s issues with STDs, teen pregnancy, and emotionally and psychologically damaged people can be lessened if more people did wait until marriage or at least until their mid-twenties to have sex. To be clear, I’m not telling anyone what to do with their private parts, but if we just study the scientific data of the above stated issues, having more people wait until their mid-twenties to have sex would greatly decrease those issues. So, for Christians sex is meant to be enjoyed in the context of marriage. Therefore, the sensuality of TRC doesn’t bother me because even after twenty-one years of dating and marriage, the “Head” is still good, we are still “Jackin’ each other Off,” and I’m still making her “climb the walls,” hoping to make her “soft and wet” so that her “river becomes an ocean” ‘cause she is still a “SexyMF” to me, and marriage didn’t change that. It actually enhanced the passion of our love and sex because we developed an emotional relationship first, which is what songs, like “Love 2 d 9s,” “Muse to the Pharaoh,” and “She Loves Me 4 Me” celebrate. And if you really listen, even “SexyMF,” with all of its dogmatic bravado, is stressing the need to develop the emotional aspect and connection so that the physical manifestation will be even more pleasurable. “In a word or two, it’s u I wanna do; no, not your body, but your mind u fool…We need to talk about things; tell me what u do; tell me what u eat…See this ain’t about sex…Why all the cosmic talk? I just want u smarter than I’ll every be when we take that walk.” So TRC simply builds on Prince’s past, especially his use of sex as a metaphor to discuss deeper issues, and, among other things, celebrates the beauty and passion of sex between committed people. And your notion that the sensuality or sexuality in TRC has gone “too far” is merely a philosophical assertion that has no more or less empirical value as my philosophical assertion that once married people should let their freak flags wave high. Now, excuse me while I go and handle my marital duties.

Trevor,

Perhaps, it is time to cue the music: Muse 2 The Pharoah, unwind, and picture 1725topp engaging in his marital duties?

love,

Spirit

How folks have so much time for long drawn out debates and long ass posts is beyond me...I aint got time to read or write all that shit...

thepope2the9s said:

How folks have so much time for long drawn out debates and long ass posts is beyond me...I aint got time to read or write all that shit...

no shit my eyes glazed over trying to read it .. ugh

SpiritOtter said:

Trevor,

Perhaps, it is time to cue the music: Muse 2 The Pharoah, unwind, and picture 1725topp engaging in his marital duties?

love,

Spirit

woo hoo ... can we pick a better song tho? he he

I dont think its ruined him at all i mean its his personal decisions and the last thing i'd want him to turn into is a fake product that feels he has to be set in a certain image even if that image was made by himself if the image doesn't represent him currently. everyone needs their own image and that image/persona may change a little or a lot as u gain new experiences. i like his new music and im not just trying to be a kiss up :p i like seeing the progression.

ixtafter7493 said:

I dont think its ruined him at all i mean its his personal decisions and the last thing i'd want him to turn into is a fake product that feels he has to be set in a certain image even if that image was made by himself if the image doesn't represent him currently. everyone needs their own image and that image/persona may change a little or a lot as u gain new experiences. i like his new music and im not just trying to be a kiss up :p i like seeing the progression.

Probably not his music, but from what I know how things go with the JW, his creative side has been stiffled

OldFriends4Sale said:

ixtafter7493 said:

I dont think its ruined him at all i mean its his personal decisions and the last thing i'd want him to turn into is a fake product that feels he has to be set in a certain image even if that image was made by himself if the image doesn't represent him currently. everyone needs their own image and that image/persona may change a little or a lot as u gain new experiences. i like his new music and im not just trying to be a kiss up :p i like seeing the progression.

Probably not his music, but from what I know how things go with the JW, his creative side has been stiffled

Stiffled at a rate of about 85%

TrevorAyer said:

prince now follows words .. words written by man ... written by greedy manipulators ... he does not follow the voice in his heart anymore .. religion can be blamed for distracting prince from true faith that comes from within .. not from abiding to outside influences and programming .. prince music is empty and there is nothing for people to connect to anymore ..

well said !!

OldFriends4Sale said:

'recently' I look at Prince + Sheila E, and she's probably more vocal about her beliefs and what it means to her, and she has openly been more visibibly connected to the 'church' community, but Sheila will still get on stage in the last year till now and perform & sing Erotic City

Isn't this veering off topic? Obviously, Sheila's religious stance is different from Prince's. Sorry, if I am missing your point as it relates to the topic.