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I would disagree,
When a star or whoever get's a larger than life ego they do it to themselves. especially a star
At times starting with Lovesexy & GB PRince got to much into trying to 'force' a message thru his music and media. I read a GB era interview and it was clear Prince's head was past the 3rd heavens:
We saw it a bit in UTCM, instead of just making a good movie, he had to press a message unlike in Purple Rain, the whole 'love saved a player' thing was too much in too short a time and it was clear in his interviews and the movie that that's what he was pushing for for the rest of us to get. And then it got worse in Graffiti Bridge, we saw some of it thru the SOTT show, and definately in the Lovesexy pt1 pt2 shows. And it always seemed to only include salvation from cheating & being a gigolo or a Ho | |
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Yeah, but with Prince the ego was always there. As far as we can tell. "New Power slide...." |
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lol oh of course it was there, no way his head would have been blown up in such a short time if it wasn't.
Plus by GB a lot of people in his camp were different, he had the Game Boyz and a lot of testosterone pushing him, didn't have a good balance in his camp
Tony M was quoted as saying "He was going to shove Black down Prince throat" because he didn't think he was black enough | |
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His spirituality gave him a real edge during the 80s (perhaps my being a confused teenager suited) but with his turn to the JW faith his music, for me at least, suffered. Not for everybody I know but for me it did. I mean, just sing the damn songs. They were good enough then and to ignore one's past is to not know who one is. Then again it's his journey not mine. I'm still happy to sing about fucking. | |
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Prince has been spiritual all his life, back in the days his religion was God, Sex & Love.. Unfortunately he got introduce to the man made, organized JW religion. I wouln`t say he`s been ruined by it but it changed him a great deal, you like or not it`s another question... "Goodness will guide us if Love is inside us" | |
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No | |
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He appears to be at peace these past few years, and if it is true, good for him.
Like Marvin Gaye before him, he always displayed this spiritual conflict in his music, and it didn't seem for show to me, some of those songs really sound like they came from a painful place.
Interesting article btw. | |
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Religion doesn't " ruin " a person..... Prince decided to join the JW's ( perhaps with a little help from Larry but that is what JW's encourage) for his own personal reasons, if we can't accept that then that is our problem not Prince's. He may end up leaving the church ( I did) he may not, it would not have been an easy transformation for Prince to become a fully flegded member of the "flock". There are so many lifestyle changes that must be made( no birthday, xmas celebrations etc, dressing conservatively, the company you keep( JW's are discouraged from maintaining regular contact with non- members) there is so much change involved in becoming a J'W. Members are even encouraged to "spy" on other members & if they see any "unacceptable behavior" they are encouraged to inform the Elders so that the appropriate action can be taken & it is even harder to keep your faith when you are a convert as opposed to being " born" into the Church. He no longer curses or speaks of sex before marriage in his songs because he is obviously very devoted to JW's & so be it, I too get put off by his religous ramblings at times, however they seem to have settled down from when he first converted.
As a member you have to preach to people, go door to door spreading the word, Prince just used another platform to do this..... His Music, so it might have turned a lot of people off him but how many people have been converted by his messages in his music?
I still love Prince & look forward to anything he releases, Sure I miss the Prince of old but I think I appreciate & enjoy his pre JW's releases even more now, My little Prince & " his dirty little cage" still live on, To my ears anyway!!!! Prince once tried 2 change his name 2 a symbol so that ur'e mother couldn't find him in the phonebook!
Peace & Be Wild! | |
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i just struggle to see how someone with the brains of Prince could fall for such wishy washy rubbish like religion and gods...
can you imagine how amazing he could have been if he just accepted reality, and wrote about real human struggles...
the talent is his and his alone, not some gift from god... on the one hand it means he hasn't been chosen by a god to do amazing things (ego blow) but on the other hand he has been lucky enough to have been born with a talent only a few humans have ever possessed in the history of our species (ego boost)...
prince, prince, prince, prince, prince.... why? you could have been the spokesman of and written the soundtrack for the enlightened age...
[Edited 8/11/12 14:39pm] Hamburger, Hot Dog, Root Beer, Pussy | |
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Newton embraced Christianity among other religions and Einstein believed in the great possibility of a God. So, here are arguably the two so-called smartest men ever who both believed in God and religion on some level. Additionally, luck has nothing to do with Prince's abilities. In fact, your notion that Prince "has been lucky enough to have been born with a talent only a few humans have ever possessed" somewhat makes you guilty of the same myopic thinking of which you accuse people for believing in god or embracing religion. Yes, all people are born with certain aptitudes or talents, but it is diligence that develops the talent, not luck. As Prince once said, "When my friends were playing, I was working. When they were sleeping, I was jamming. When they awoke, I had another groove." So, it was his work ethic that developed his talent, not luck. And, if he is grateful to some God for giving him the talent and the father and friends to inspire him to work diligently, and he thinks that some God helps him be/behave as a better person, then that makes him about as unintelligent as Newton and Einstein.
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1725topp said:
Newton embraced Christianity among other religions and Einstein believed in the great possibility of a God. So, here are arguably the two so-called smartest men ever who both believed in God and religion on some level. Additionally, luck has nothing to do with Prince's abilities. In fact, your notion that Prince "has been lucky enough to have been born with a talent only a few humans have ever possessed" somewhat makes you guilty of the same myopic thinking of which you accuse people for believing in god or embracing religion. Yes, all people are born with certain aptitudes or talents, but it is diligence that develops the talent, not luck. As Prince once said, "When my friends were playing, I was working. When they were sleeping, I was jamming. When they awoke, I had another groove." So, it was his work ethic that developed his talent, not luck. And, if he is grateful to some God for giving him the talent and the father and friends to inspire him to work diligently, and he thinks that some God helps him be/behave as a better person, then that makes him about as unintelligent as Newton and Einstein.
prince wrote purple rain and graffiti bridge, Hitler was a vegetarian, Newton did science better than he did religion. I didn't say that prince didn't work hard, I merely commented on his genetic predisposition to music Hamburger, Hot Dog, Root Beer, Pussy | |
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He was spiritual to start out with, but his turn to the JW faith negatively affected his musical output "Prince doesn't have verbal diarrhea, he has studio diarrhea...." Allen Leeds | |
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Yes, but you began and ended your earlier post by questioning Prince's intelligence and the intelligence of anyone who would dare to believe in the existence of a God or embrace a particular religion. I don't get the "Hitler was a vegetarian" comment. And the notion that Newton did science better than he did religion" is debatable. For one, Newton actually spent more of his life in pursuit of biblical knowledge, and it is his calculations that lead to some of the accepted dates in the Bible. So clearly, Newton's work shows that the scientist is not innately adversarial to the theologian or that the critical thinking, scientific mind is innately at odds to the mind that is open to the metaphysical aspect of life. And in some cases, religion provides the truth before science can prove it. For instance, years before science proved that the Earth was round, the Bible stated "the Earth is a sphere hung in the heavens." And years before science proved that humanity began in Africa, the Bible shows this by providing the four rivers that border the Garden of Eden, which place the first humans just east of Egypt. So, my point was merely to refute your notion that one's intellect suffers when one embraces a religion or that one must be devoid of a certain level of intellect to believe in the existence of a god or to embrace a religion. * And while you did not say that Prince didn't work hard, your emphasis on his "luck" in having a talent without mentioning his diligent work ethic is the same type of thinking as some people are destined or fated to be something, which is even more myopic than Christianity because Christianity clearly teaches in the literal statement and through several examples that “faith without ‘work’ is dead” or meaningless or useless. So, I am glad that Prince wasn't so lazy or myopic that he relied merely on his "genetic predisposition to music," since we all have some genetic predisposition to something, and I am glad that he is intelligent enough, like Newton and Einstein, to be open to things that science cannot yet prove, such as the metaphysical aspects of life. It has always been Prince's openness to and interest in the metaphysical aspect of life that has made his work, for me, passionate and creative. | |
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You only have to play The Truth and New Power Soul back to back and you can hear the difference. | |
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Prince has shown us in recent years that he isn't exactly the brightest of rock and roll cats.
J | |
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all religion are warped versions of reality ... bent and maligned to suit greedy manipulators
god is PLURAL and god built the pyramids as a giant source of free electricity enhancing naturally occuring energy lines that surround the earth
heaven is exactly what was previously implied in the bible .. earth is a sphere floating in the heavens ..
gods are what primatives referred to superior beings as .. humans are gods that are asleep to their supreme knowledge buried in their dna .. supressed by chemicals and constant programming
religion is shit .. faith is belief in what you know despite evil attempts to limit your understanding of how the universe works
you cannot deny that god is a physical being when you see the pyramids .. and use what is left of your logical brain to actually think with it
when prince was younger he had faith .. it was confusing but it was real .. it was his world clashing with what he knew to be true despite alternate programming .. it played out honestly in his music and the truth resonated and as a result millions connected to his expression
prince now follows words .. words written by man ... written by greedy manipulators ... he does not follow the voice in his heart anymore .. religion can be blamed for distracting prince from true faith that comes from within .. not from abiding to outside influences and programming .. prince music is empty and there is nothing for people to connect to anymore ..
moreso than religion i would guess it is money that ruined prince .. | |
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I think Prince finds himself more 'Spiritual' than a wittness. But to answer the question: NO, it did not ruin him. It's Button Therapy, Baby! | |
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is that you David Icke?
I'm also denying that god is a physical being.... what is he made of ? does he have mass?!! [Edited 8/12/12 12:33pm] Hamburger, Hot Dog, Root Beer, Pussy | |
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As very usual, you summarize the same points I have, so well! It's Button Therapy, Baby! | |
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Player319 said: YES....killed off the dirty fucker we loved... but it saved his life This. We don’t mourn artists because we knew them. We mourn them because they helped us know ourselves. | |
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Your absolutism is just so funny to me. What empirical evidence do you have that makes your definition of "faith" more valid than anyone else's? My point is that there is no real empirical rationale in any of what you are saying, and yet you are exalting your assertion as if you have some empirical truth. I'm sorry, but that's just so funny to me. I "can't deny that god is a physical being when I see the pyramids," really? My belief in a god or a higher being does not in any logical way mean that I cannot understand that man is capable of great things. The two concepts are not mutually exclusive, and it is laughable to me that you, in all of our righteous indignation and pseudo-science, can't understand that. It's just so funny to me how so many people on this site denounce the belief in a god or religion with some of the most scatter-brained ideas, and yet y'all call us unintelligent. Wow! * And how do you know that the voice in Prince's heart or the voice in anybody's heart does not also parallel the words of any so-called scripture or bible text? Are you saying that someone who is following the voice in their heart can't write (document) the ideas of that voice to share with others? So, a person with inner-faith is not intelligent enough to write the ideas of that voice to share with others? And if this text, which is based on the inner-faith of the writer and the writer's belief that the voice comes from a higher being, is capable of helping others to live a constructive life, why should it be shunned? Do you not see how illogical your rants are? Again, my goal is not to prove to you or anyone that a god exists. My point is to show how silly and illogical the argument is that someone who can conceive of the possibility of a god or embrace a religion is someone who is stupid or illogical. And yet most of y'all are so blinded by your subjective notions and angers with religion that even when I provide evidence of great thinkers, such as Newton, Einstein, and others, y'all don’t' have the objective, logical capability to say, "well, you are right, there are people who have made great contributions to science and critical thinking who also embrace the possibility of the existence of a god." And, this inability to admit the flaw in your argument just makes your stance even more laughable because it shows that many of y'all are even more myopic and illogical than people who believe in the existence of god. * And contrary to what you assert or wish to believe, there are still a lot of us on this site who connect to Prince's music. It is not empty for me. It is still creative and inspiring, just as creative and inspiring to me as it was in the eighties. Maybe some of us need to grow up, mature, evolve, and realize that fucking is not the be all and end of life. Now, sadly, the thing to which millions of people did connect in Prince's music was his theme of sexual liberation, and many read or interpreted that theme as the right to fuck who one wants as much as one wants without any responsibility. Thus, those millions, mostly casual Prince fans who never bothered to analyze the lyrics beyond the surface sexual titillation, did not realize that Prince was creating a double entendre with sex where sex was a metaphor for other issues, including sex as an escape from one's problems, such as loneliness and lack of power. "Poor lonely computer, it's time someone programmed you. It's time you learned love and lust they both have four letters but they are entirely different words. Poor poor lonely computer, do you really know what love is?...Hello, how are you? I'm fine because I know the Lord is coming soon..." So those millions who no longer connect to Prince's work are those who never realized how much more Prince was attempting to say. Remember, Prince said in 1980, "More than my songs are about sex they are about one person's need for another." So, Prince always wanted more, always wanted to discuss more. Just because you seem to be one of those empty people who wish for Prince to fill your empty life with fantasies about wild sex doesn't mean that there are not people who seemed to understand, even during the eighties, where Prince was headed. As I have said before, if you were surprised by TRC, you weren't really listening to what he was saying in the eighties. But, that isn't Prince's fault, and, again, it is laughable to me that you and others want to make your disconnect to Prince his fault. (And by the way, those millions of fans disconnected from Prince around '93-'94, which is six or seven years before TRC. So religion can't really be blamed for his decrease in mainstream popularity. In fact, Prince never saw himself as a mainstream star, and even when he had that type of success he never seemingly courted it but seemed moreso to rebel against and challenge it because he never wanted to be in that box or in your box. It is not rational to love Prince for being himself when he's pissing off the mainstream but say that he's being brainwashed when he's pissing you off. Prince's modus operandi is to do what he wants when he wants regardless of whom he pisses off, and, so, to that end, even now he's just being himself. That hasn't been ruined by religion.) He's just an artist. You either like what he does or you don't. And if you and others don't like what he's now creating, that's cool, but that dislike is not just about Prince. At this moment, Prince seems as free, content, and as happy has he has ever been. Notice I said, "he seems" because I don't claim to know. But if he's happy and content with what he is creating, then rather than complaining because he is not giving you anything to fill your empty heart or life, why not just accept that you want something else and find an artist that can give you that. Hey, the eighties were a nice run, but now it's time for y'all to move on because Prince certainly has. | |
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look @ sly stone
vs larry g
maybe religion aint all bad!
everybody on they path
dont hate - celebrate | |
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who really wanna see P in his drawers now singing sister
or
even wearing the purple coat
po larry blackmon still rockin the red cod piece from word up
sadderthanamofo!
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^^ Old man in panties shouting "mutha fucka, mutha fucka" vs cream cheese bagles and turtleneck sweaters - it isn't even about this, these aren't the only two choices! | |
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1275topp ... truth is absolute .. no need to dimisnish its power pretending not to know
glad i cracked u up .. maybe some light will come thru that crack
prince never grew up .. he grew down .. he lost touch with reality .. i can't relate to him
i was never into his songs just for sex .. don't you understand that we are the poor lonely computer that is being programmed .. lust and love both have 4 letters but completely different meanings .. so do religion and faith .. similar but different ..
generations of faith being used to manipulate has corrupted the word .. you can read the truth but it is not written .. nor is it spoken in most cases .. accept that truth and the crack will widen ..
when prince speaks the truth again .. all will know it .. until then .. his music will remain arrogant .. pompous .. self glorifying and utterly boring .. we all know what he is capable of .. and we all know how far off his music has fallen .. | |
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I know you may hear this question all the time, but I am genuinely intrigued; So I will ask you again: "Why do you still listen to his music? AND if you do listen to his music; what makes you like 'Arrogant, pompous, self glorifying, and utterly boring music yet dislike it enough to call out what is horrible about it each time you can?
I don't think we are the same, I am not in the boat with you to claim his music has fallen and is boring. I am sure many are not in that category; with the exception of you and a few others. AND as for those who believe that; I am curious as to what makes them spend so much time criticizing the artist by coming to this fan community.
Surely, critics have their place; they criticize usually the art that was recently released, and kind of forget it. I've never met so many constant criticisms over the same thing; there comes a point; where you move on. I don't think waiting for him to 'Come back' will solve anything. If it has not shown up in the last 10+ years, you obviously want him to come back to prove you wrong. I really think; you have more faith in Prince than others might imagine, because you want him to return to where he once was. AND if you don't want this, why constantly comment on what hasn't changed all these years.
Your voice is being heard, but maybe you should listen to all of the other voices as well. If you refuse, to believe Prince and his 'Truth' let it go. Why keep it going? Is it for the sake of the argument? You must like illusion, because if Prince is no longer attached to reality, where is your focus? Obviously it's of Prince's past. Cause for someone who can't relate to Prince, surely you like coming on to just sing the same song..
I think you are confusing truth with a focus on a vague understanding of a mirage of what you want to be there, because of your faith...
That's just my observation though.... It's Button Therapy, Baby! | |
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eyejester .. i just want an album i can love and respect from the guy .. i also love discussing and learning about the great musicians how it all went down how it is and why what is .. is that so wrong? .. i have faith prince can deliver but i don't follow him like relegion and if he's fakin i will say so .. i enjoy the perspectives and know prince reads | |
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TrevorAyer said: 1725topp … truth is absolute … no need to diminish its power pretending not to know. * For the most part, I tend to like your past posts and insights, but you do realize that this circular glittering generality makes you appear even more obtuse than those of us who believe in a god and embrace a religion? A fact is an empirical product whereas truth is a philosophical position. Yet, the bigger issue is that it is flawed, if not hypocritical of you, to assert that truth is absolute and then denounce Prince’s religious position since his position is the same as yours. He believes in an absolute truth that comes from an all-powerful god. So, I’m confused that you do not realize the flaw or hypocrisy in your position of denouncing Prince for the similar, if not same, position. * TrevorAyer said: prince never grew up .. he grew down .. he lost touch with reality .. i can't relate to him * Again, you don’t realize the overly subjective or circular nature of your statement. Just because you can’t relate to him doesn’t mean that you are right. It just means that he no longer makes art of your liking. I don’t like the vast majority of hip hop and current rock music. Does that mean that the people who create that art have lost touch with reality? I, on the other hand, think that Prince has matured and evolved just fine, singing less about sex and more about moral, social, political, and spiritual responsibility. Whether it is “Dear Mr. Man,” “Act of God,” “Dreamer,” or “Illusion, Coma, Pimp, and Circumstance,” Prince has continued to write songs that challenge people to look at things differently even if we don’t necessarily agree with his stance or position. How is that growing down or devolving? * TrevorAyer said: don't you understand that we are the poor lonely computer that is being programmed * The only people who are programmed are the people who have not been taught to think critically. And, yes, even people who think critically can come to a flawed conclusion, but embracing a religion does not mean that one must leave one’s critical thinking skills at the entrance. Yes, many people do relinquish their critical thinking skills to embrace a religion, but many do not. What is unenlightened is to stereotype anyone just because they embrace something with which you don’t agree. To do this allows others to question your critical thinking skills. * TrevorAyer said: you can read the truth but it is not written .. nor is it spoken in most cases .. accept that truth and the crack will widen * Again, more circular reasoning and glittering generality. This type of statement makes me want to back slowly from this discussion, and I’m the one who supposedly socializes with brainwashed Christians. Your position is conflicting. So, if most people are incapable of writing or speaking the truth, how can those who become knowledgeable of the truth share it with others? * TrevorAyer said: when prince speaks the truth again .. all will know it. * This final statement is saying that we will only know when Prince speaks the truth when he, once again, gains millions of fans? So, something is only true if a lot of people like it? And this is tantamount to saying that Prince’s work is only well-crafted if he has platinum sales. Dirty Mind only sold platinum after the success of Purple Rain. Was Dirty Mind not well-crafted before Purple Rain sold millions? Prince’s popularity and sells decreased because that is the natural occurrence for all older artists. Their core fans mature and embrace other responsibilities, such as mortgages, car notes, and childcare. A new generation of music lovers takes the place of the older generation, and they want their own music and ideas. And, even the hardcore fans of the artist embark on their own ideological journeys that are often different than the artist’s journey. These are three natural occurrences that have had a greater impact on Prince’s decrease in sales than his religion. Again, Prince’s sales were quite diminished by ’93-94, years before his becoming a JW. I’d bet that most casual fans don’t know that Prince is a JW or don’t care since most of them stopped listening to his work around 1988 or so. So, it would seem that Prince’s religion is mostly an issue for the so-called hardcore fan, and prior to Purple Rain Prince’s hardcore fan base numbered in the hundreds of thousands (gold) not millions (platinum). So, it wasn’t his religion that decreased his sales.
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but you do follow him like a religion. Prince has not done anything you liked in 10+ years yet to continue to complain about the same thing for a decade. that to me sounds like an obsession. If I was Prince I would tell you to stop sweating me and go find another artist that satisfies you and stop obsessing over what i can or cannot or should or should not do. Its really not Prince's burden to satisfy you or every fan. That does not mean you cannot share your dislike for his new music, but from an artist standpoint, especially someone with a 30 year career, it will seems bizarre to me. [Edited 8/12/12 17:36pm] | |
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Prince was always religous, so no, religion itself didn't ruin Prince, becoming a JW did. I wouldn't say it ruined Prince, it just made him annoying. His music has never failed to impress, but the lyrics about the cult were and are annoying. | |
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