Hi everyone,

Just thought I'd share this with you: http://www.clarkeroberts....in-prince/

It's a piece I wrote last year that discusses (briefly) whether or not Prince's music has been 'ruined' by religion. It's not fantastic, and I'm sure there are many better written articles about this very topic. Nonetheless, give it a read if you fancy...I'd be interested in your comments.

Nothing offensive or unncessarily mean - I know from reading many threads here that some people can often be fairly hostile; no one likes to have their feelings hurt!

Happy reading!

I know personaly, that when I listen to old albums before he was a JW- I always think, "God! he was so fantastic before he found religion!" and then I sort of feel sad knowing that those days are over. But, on another note, I DO love the Rainbow Children and we wouldn't have that album without the JW deal, so......

Lovesexy is one of my favourite albums from him and it's very religious....so no.

He was religious before JW...."God', "I would die 4 u", "Temptation" etc...

Yes. I think that from The Lord's Prayer in "Controversy" onwards it has been ruining him. Bring back Prince of old from pre 1981!!!!!!!!

So your conclusion is everyone who doesn't like Prince 00's music is just ignorant?

NouveauDance said:

So your conclusion is everyone who doesn't like Prince 00's music is just ignorant?

Well, what else could it be? [Insert Sarcasm]

No, Prince ruined religion.

not really but sorta

It seems as long as it was Prince (on his own) incorporating things into his music was ok via PR/ATWIAD era & Lovesexy

it seems things went more 'defined' when a certain person entered his life and mostly likely became a 'guide' of sorts

Seems 2 me that Prince is hamstrung by religion and it controls his lyrical content these days.

Once any part of your art is compromised................all of it is.

skywalker said:

Yes. I think that from The Lord's Prayer in "Controversy" onwards it has been ruining him. Bring back Prince of old from pre 1981!!!!!!!!

actually the 1980's Prince wasn't so defined by it.

the Lords Prayer in controversy wasn't so religious as it was 'controversial'

God the Dance Electric was just some kind of appreciation for mankind and we are together

Tempation(ending) is right in wrong struggle touched on in Computer Blue(unreleased music)

For U, Prince, Dirty Mind, Controversy, 1999, Purple Rain, Parade are albums with Either None at all or very vague 'religious' touches. If it's there someone has to interpret it for you otherwise most people don't see/hear it.

ATWIAD has the ending of Tempation, not the song really. And the Ladder can't even be described as religious, it's more of human life journey song.

SOTT only has the Cross, which sorta falls in the same line as the Ladder (a bit more defining w/the Cross symbol) but not much more

Lovesexy the era is more 'religious' leading into GB and it's message of Love

Eye No is very religious defined, Anne Stesia has it intermingled in the struggle "save me Jesus" and Love Is God God Is Love Girls & Boys Love God Above

but nothing really outside of those songs, Even I Wish U Heaven has no 'religious' overtones

Batman of course has none, that I know of

OldFriends4Sale said:

Did anyone check out the article in the first post? Really worth reading.

Aristotle said:

Did anyone check out the article in the first post? Really worth reading.

It ends with:

"Did religion ruin Prince? No. Our ignorance did."

Agreed.

YES....killed off the dirty fucker we loved... but it saved his life

Thanks guys, the positive feedback means a lot

skywalker said:

Aristotle said:

Did anyone check out the article in the first post? Really worth reading.

It ends with:

"Did religion ruin Prince? No. Our ignorance did."

Agreed.

jayARDAHB said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

actually the 1980's Prince wasn't so defined by it.

the Lords Prayer in controversy wasn't so religious as it was 'controversial'

God the Dance Electric was just some kind of appreciation for mankind and we are together

Tempation(ending) is right in wrong struggle touched on in Computer Blue(unreleased music)

For U, Prince, Dirty Mind, Controversy, 1999, Purple Rain, Parade are albums with Either None at all or very vague 'religious' touches. If it's there someone has to interpret it for you otherwise most people don't see/hear it.

ATWIAD has the ending of Tempation, not the song really. And the Ladder can't even be described as religious, it's more of human life journey song.

SOTT only has the Cross, which sorta falls in the same line as the Ladder (a bit more defining w/the Cross symbol) but not much more

Lovesexy the era is more 'religious' leading into GB and it's message of Love

Eye No is very religious defined, Anne Stesia has it intermingled in the struggle "save me Jesus" and Love Is God God Is Love Girls & Boys Love God Above

but nothing really outside of those songs, Even I Wish U Heaven has no 'religious' overtones

Batman of course has none, that I know of

I Would Die 4 U is one of several songs that suggested Prince was certainly a Christian but he appeared to be very much more interested and aware of the things the rest of us dealt with in our day to day. When Doves Cry, Purple Rain, Life Can Be So Nice, Manic Monday and the list goes on are songs that we could relate to that were also fascinating sonically. Colonized Mind is fabulous in its sound but the lyrics in verse two where he sings about his frustration with record labels, while justified in my opinion, are not relatable. I still love certain songs he releases these days but the days of 17 Days and Mountains and their majesty appear to be gone. [Edited 8/9/12 14:20pm]

I actually never thought it related to him being Christian

1st) the connection to the movie and what happened to his father etc, the hand movement Die using a gun gesture to the head

And the lyrics other than that just reminded me of Controversy & When Doves Cry and Prince saying he's beyond just his physical person.

I believe in a 1985 interview he was asked if his beliefs were "Christian" and he never answered it (or did he?)

I agree about being able to relate, I was going thru some Lovesexy lyrics and even though its one of my fav eras a lot of what was being said I just had to equate to having fun, because I couldn't understand some things in songs like Glam Slam, but I love the song

NO!!!!!!!!!

Only if you can't handle listening to someone express views you don't agree with.

Me, I dont' really care. I just tune him out when he goes into some religious or metaphysical theory I don't agree with/believe in, and just focus on the actual music.

robertlove said:

Lovesexy is one of my favourite albums from him and it's very religious....so no.

He was religious before JW...."God', "I would die 4 u", "Temptation" etc...

I tend to dissagree with comments like these.

Im a believer, but I wouldn't classify myself as religious. I dont go to church every week, but I do speak to whoever is up there, through good and bad.

This is how I saw Prince back in those days.

But when he became a JW, he took a different approach and pretty much became religious.

skywalker said:

Yes. I think that from The Lord's Prayer in "Controversy" onwards it has been ruining him. Bring back Prince of old from pre 1981!!!!!!!!

You hit the nail on that one! Prince has always had religious lyrics and he always had religion in his life. These people complain because there isn't enough sex to go with the religion anymore. The fans want Prince to be controversial again which is quite understandable as it is unrealistic since the man is FIFTY FOUR years old. Give it up already! I listen to Tyler The Creator's music full of atheist lyrics that I don't agree with, I don't make threads that ask if "Atheism Ruined Tyler" because I love the music and don't care what the artists beliefs are because I respect them regaurdless because I'm not a dick.

Threads like this need to stop. Starting with this one.

uh.... DUH!

not his spirituality. tying himself to a religion that's diametrically opposed to his creative muse.

Beauty really is in the eye of the beholder, and it seems that perception is also. Or, as Aristotle said, perception is reality. I have been pondering this topic a lot lately, but in a much different way. What's odd for me is that when I listen to ARTWIAD and other songs from Controversy to Lovesexy, I am amazed at the number of people who didn't see TRC coming. And I know that others have stated in this thread and in other threads that Prince's spiritual or religious stances were more individualized and unorthodox, but what I have always seen/heard is a man both investigating the gap between the strict principles of Christianity and the struggles to adhere to those principles, which, for me, stated that he was, indeed, interested in closing that gap one day or being as aligned as possible to those sensibilities and principles. Most people seemed to interpret Prince's use of Christian imagery (symbols and ideals) as being merely controversial or that he, himself, was confused. Yet, the consistency of the message in those songs that depicted a struggle with Christian ideals or principles seems to show someone who was not confused but someone who was seriously questioning human dichotomy, the notion of reconciling and balancing the flesh with the spirit or reconciling man's will of the flesh to God's will of the spirit. In just about every case God or the Christian principles are portrayed as right, and there is a sense of moral right and moral wrong and that one will suffer either earthly or eternal pain if one chooses the wrong option or path. It seems that the only thing that has changed about Prince is that he has become more clear and definite about the “right,” the “wrong,” the “punishment,” and “who should be punished.” These elements always existed, but Prince was a bit more vague in the past. And, yet, with so many on this site who interpret Prince as doing something else completely with his earlier use of Christian imagery, I can't discount their interpretations or the disbelief or confusion or sense of betrayal that some have for the Christian views that Prince now seems to hold. But, for me, TRC is just the natural progression from ARTWIAD and Lovesexy.

*

As far as the notion of whether Prince's religious beliefs have ruined his career or somehow had a negative effect on his creative output, I am, of course, one who says no because I love Musicology, Lotusflow3r/MPLS, and 20Ten. His guitar playing, overall songwriting ability, and poetics still move me, making me laugh, think, and feel. A few months ago, I decided to create a DVD of live (concert not TV appearances) versions of songs released on albums from 3121 to 20Ten. Along with being amazed that I could get about a three-hour DVD, I realized that while I was not surprised by how good the songs were I was still amazed by his talent. And I think that is what, so far, keeps me loving what Prince has done from 2000 to 2010. He hasn't surprised me with a new song or album, but he has amazed me. From 2000 to 2010 his work has caused me to say, "Damn, that's a hell of a guitar lick, or what a funny line, or what a passionate line, or what a creative lick or groove, or what a creative line, or damn that’s funky, or man that's soulful." These reactions have not stopped for me. No, I haven't said, "Man, I didn't know he could do that," in a long time nor has his work from 2000 to 2010 changed how I view the world or music, but rarely does anybody over fifty elicit that response. However, I do continue to be amazed and moved by his talent. Yet, again, that is merely my reality. And, I’ll admit that I don’t have the hurdle or obstacle or frustration of being offended or surprised by his current religious convictions.

No unless you consider Mayte a religion? she pretty much ruined him.....he hasnt wrote a LRC or Doves Cry or Kiss since she came along. she made him nice and he lost his edge

kidmelody2012 said:

No unless you consider Mayte a religion? she pretty much ruined him.....he hasnt wrote a LRC or Doves Cry or Kiss since she came along. she made him nice and he lost his edge

OK.

jayARDAHB said:

NouveauDance said:

So your conclusion is everyone who doesn't like Prince 00's music is just ignorant?

Well, what else could it be? [Insert Sarcasm]

That was my question....

eye am pretty sure rap ruined prince career

the snooty approach to his spirituality in music was just another nail in the coffin ..

i always enjoyed his religious songs like thunder .. the question of u .. but then his delivery changed from humble to overly preachy and arrogant .. lost all its power and credibility

NeonCraxx said:

skywalker said:

Yes. I think that from The Lord's Prayer in "Controversy" onwards it has been ruining him. Bring back Prince of old from pre 1981!!!!!!!!

You hit the nail on that one! Prince has always had religious lyrics and he always had religion in his life. These people complain because there isn't enough sex to go with the religion anymore. The fans want Prince to be controversial again which is quite understandable as it is unrealistic since the man is FIFTY FOUR years old. Give it up already! I listen to Tyler The Creator's music full of atheist lyrics that I don't agree with, I don't make threads that ask if "Atheism Ruined Tyler" because I love the music and don't care what the artists beliefs are because I respect them regaurdless because I'm not a dick.

Threads like this need to stop. Starting with this one.

Actually NeonCraxx, 54 has nothing to do with how much sex a person gets or should be having 54 for a man is nothing as far as sex is concerned.

I do agree that some want more SEX, but if you look at some of the fan favorites like Purple Rain, ATWIAD Parade SOTT Lovesexy even the most of songs were not sexual or overtly sexual. the ones that were were covered in rhymn like Tamborine & Temptation is Prince's straight forward "Let's Talk About Sex" song like Do It All Night, Let's Pretend We're Married, It,

but if we really look at Prince 1978-1989 his music wasn't overtly or even moderately 'religious' and outside of Dirty Mind, most of his albums were not overtly sexual. He might have sang about sex here in there-it's a part of life, but most of it was about 'relationships' with a woman, many times told in a story (like Darling Nikki) but they aren't overtly about sex.

I agree with you that I think it is the 'controversial' part, the edgy creative part, he had a good balance and for me personally that 1980's "Uptown" utopia surrounding his music image etc was the draw, not Sex, ATWIAD and Parade are 2 of my FAV Prince albums and in Parade even moreso, God & Sex are 99% absent from the music. Yeah New Position has undertones of sex but it wasn't directly about sex, I Wonder U is very Steamily Sexy but people don't interpret it as a sexual song. The lyrics expression and music is very sexy. But God/Religion & Sex are not visible or should I say audible

I think probably with the connection to his attempts at being harder and the 'gansta rap' attempts in the 1990's Prince had a lot more overtly visual and musical SEX

robertlove said:

Lovesexy is one of my favourite albums from him and it's very religious....so no.

He was religious before JW...."God', "I would die 4 u", "Temptation" etc...

I never looked at Prince as being 'religious' in the sense that he is as a JW

being JW is more defined, layed out for him, even a 'guide' in the person of Larry Graham(which is a part of the JW doctrine) to make sure he stays in line with it

with Lovesexy and the music before that Prince never defined himself religiously, I think there are many people that say 'Jesus & God' but aren't defined by a denomination. Prince was very airy about his 'beliefs' he was making things up as he went, He believed in God and God is Love and that was the largest extent of it.

Even in Lovesexy if you listen to the album outside of Eye No and the later half of Anne Stesia, what was religious about the album or lyrics? I Wish U Heaven cant even count