Genesia said:

MikeA said:

TheEnglishGent said:

naffi said:

So Prince can set up his own version of iTunes/Spotify/Mogg to sell existing music and for any new releases of his own or other artists??

No, the internet is dead to him.

Since the internet is dead (acording to Prince) His nex vehicle to release music free of corporate constraints will be psuedo-telepathecally via "Moonbeam Levels". Trust me, he's a pioneer.

"Maybe he's lookin' 4 a brand new high" -Prince

Come on old time org'ers

[Edited 7/10/12 19:29pm]

That was a somewhat cryptic statement. Whatever it is, I hope it's good. Despite some differences I got with him, I always smile a little when I hear news of a Prince project no matter how it comes out. We'll see though.

Emancipation89 said:

NuPwrSoul said:

I really wish people on this thread would / could differentiate between a record label deal and a publishing agreement.

Prince's publishing agreements with Warner Chappell, and then Universal Music Publishing, had nothing to do with his music releases. These were deals with administrators who would handle the collection of royalties for use of an existing music catalog, including policing the 'net and other media for unlicensed uses. A publishing company could also be empowered to license the use of existing music in films, televesion, commercials; as well as approve samples, and the like. That's if the artist allowed it... We all know Prince is very restrictive when it comes to licensing his music--it's very rare that he does.

This has NOTHING to do with future releases, a record label, or new music. A publishing agreement is primarily concerned about managing the artist's catalog.

Of course, Kiran Sharma's statement about "fresh and new ideas for all his music" is quite vague (typical Prince) and lends itself to the speculation about new music. A publishing agreement (or lack thereof) has nothing to do with how new music will be released.

I wonder if there's any music publishing company out there that would love to work with Prince. I mean he doesn't allow his music for commercials or TV shows such as American Idol(there was one time I heard his tune on DWTS though), and he's not exactly a fan of others covering his music either. When do they ever get to make $$$???

Even if Prince doesn't authorize any licenses, his catalog is still lucrative. Royalties alone on sales & radio play still net anywhere from $8-$10 million a year (the last figure I remember seeing a few years back). Even if it's not as much anymore, publishers have mechanisms in place for collecting license fees/royalties that doesn't require them any extra work per artist if that artist doesn't have any special licensing. That's easy money for them because they're already doing it for so many other artists. (Which makes it unlikely that Prince will take this task upon himself.)

Of course, a publisher interested in maximizing the value of the catalog under its administration will actively seek out licensing opportunities in television, film, video games, ring tones, etc.; but we all know Prince has rarely agreed to those kinds of opportunities.

Still, even with the most restrictive usage, his catalog still represents a goldmine for any publisher he'd go to. He's probably shopping around to find the one giving him the best rate/fee structure.

Genesia said:

ludwig said:

Let's be honest and acknowledge that no one here knows the insights, if someone did something wrong, etc... It's all speculation.

I think you misunderstood what I was trying to say.

Prince always makes this big deal when his deals end, talking about his wonderful new "freedom," and how it opens all these amazing new horizons for his music. He makes it sound like it's always the other side holding him back.

And yet, nothing ever changes. He operates the way he always has: there are no re-masters and the vault stays closed.

Amen to that Genesia...

[Edited 7/11/12 2:06am]

onecrush said:

Gav said:

Ahhh I've missed you my lovely little prince-troll

ahh i aint got no beef with u Gav. I guess after travelling across the globe between '88 and 2011 following the Purple Yoda i've burnt myself out... bottom line I don't think he is v relevant anymore...i feel he's boxed himself in2 a corner...where can he go from here? How will he release new music?

Anyway enough of that...if you're still into the whole Prince thing good luck to you. All the best. Take care

To be honest, I'm not really.

I still keep my hand in on a few things that benefit the fanbase but I'm much like you about his career - the new stuff is all a bit "meh" for my liking.

This post came after a phone call from Kiran as she was about to jump on a plane so passed on the message. This place is still pretty much the same I see

Ta for the nice message - same to you

dopaminerush said:

TheEnglishGent said:

No, the internet is dead to him.

Since the internet is dead (acording to Prince) His nex vehicle to release music free of corporate constraints will be psuedo-telepathecally via "Moonbeam Levels". Trust me, he's a pioneer.

"Maybe he's lookin' 4 a brand new high" -Prince

Come on old time org'ers

[Edited 7/10/12 19:29pm]

YEP....the mind gyn lives on...and they wont be able to retrieve music to give to others

[Edited 7/11/12 8:33am]

NuPwrSoul said:

Emancipation89 said:

I wonder if there's any music publishing company out there that would love to work with Prince. I mean he doesn't allow his music for commercials or TV shows such as American Idol(there was one time I heard his tune on DWTS though), and he's not exactly a fan of others covering his music either. When do they ever get to make $$$???

Even if Prince doesn't authorize any licenses, his catalog is still lucrative. Royalties alone on sales & radio play still net anywhere from $8-$10 million a year (the last figure I remember seeing a few years back). Even if it's not as much anymore, publishers have mechanisms in place for collecting license fees/royalties that doesn't require them any extra work per artist if that artist doesn't have any special licensing. That's easy money for them because they're already doing it for so many other artists. (Which makes it unlikely that Prince will take this task upon himself.)

Of course, a publisher interested in maximizing the value of the catalog under its administration will actively seek out licensing opportunities in television, film, video games, ring tones, etc.; but we all know Prince has rarely agreed to those kinds of opportunities.

Still, even with the most restrictive usage, his catalog still represents a goldmine for any publisher he'd go to. He's probably shopping around to find the one giving him the best rate/fee structure.

Prince's catalog which is his vast majority of "MasterPieces" is his bread & butter. He knows that he has to handle them delicately. Because that is his back up & how he will always get paid. That is the reason he caters now so much to his major hits live..He has the potential to earn even more than Mj earns in his tragic death.

KCOOLMUZIQ said:

daPrettyman said:

Does anyone think he will try to go back to WB (for music publishing)?

How many other companies are out there that you know of? I know Sony exists (other than Universal and WB). Are there any more big ones that you guys can think of?

Yes! BMI Publishing is a very popular publishing company that a lot of artist use. He may go with them. The part that the deal was done & finish weeks ago. Proves that Prince is up to something big. I think its all tied in to his masters. In a year and a half he will have ownership of the big "Purple Rain" masters. He is getting his house in order now..

No matter what people say about him here. which i don't really care. Prince is a brilliant business man & has made major strides in owning & controlling his brand. I can't wait to hear what Princey's next move is..Hopefully it will include his very own music channel & slay Magic & Diddy's new channels out the way..He should take notes what Lionel did & sell his product on a HSN network. Lionell was very successful at that. Plus 80's artist are back in now..People want to hear real music by real musicians again.....

[Edited 7/9/12 16:05pm]

That would be a great idea, but the press release said he ended his deal with Universal and not ASCAP. ASCAP is who Prince is signed through and Universal was who administered and controlled it (as it states on the recent sheet music). If you look at the older sheet music, it says "administed by Warner Brothers Music).

BMI and ASCAP are both music publishing houses. However, they both do the same job.

Interesting that this Billboard article references the 3121 perrfume licensing deal:

Prince's UMPG deal had been a worldwide agreement, covering his extensive back catalog and all future recordings. In 2006, he had agreed to a deal with Revelations Perfume and Cosmetics to help market a line of perfume, splitting profits with UMPG, a contract which he allegedly did not fulfill. A judge ordered Prince to pay nearly $4 million to the company in April of this year.

One wonders if and how losing that case (and the overall failure of that licensing deal) played into his decision to end his relationship with UMPG.

NuPwrSoul said:

Interesting that this Billboard article references the 3121 perrfume licensing deal:

Prince's UMPG deal had been a worldwide agreement, covering his extensive back catalog and all future recordings. In 2006, he had agreed to a deal with Revelations Perfume and Cosmetics to help market a line of perfume, splitting profits with UMPG, a contract which he allegedly did not fulfill. A judge ordered Prince to pay nearly $4 million to the company in April of this year.

One wonders if and how losing that case (and the overall failure of that licensing deal) played into his decision to end his relationship with UMPG.

I think a bigger deal is that bit about "all future recordings." Might explain why we haven't had an album released in the US since 2009.

But, yeah - to your point, I'm sure he felt that he didn't get his money's worth out of that Revelations deal. I mean...he had to split the profits with UMPG, but I doubt they ponied up when he got sued and lost. And knowing Prince, I'm sure he felt that they didn't do enough to maximize the fu-fu.

In more music publishing news, Sony/ATV (incl MJ's estate) just bought EMI Publishing for 2.2 billion, giving them a 31% global market share of the music publishing business. So does that leave Sony/ATV, Warner Music Group, and Universal Music Publishing Group as the big three? Who else is out there in the business of managing & administering publishing?

And if Prince decides to go with another publishing company, where to?

NuPwrSoul said:

In more music publishing news, Sony/ATV (incl MJ's estate) just bought EMI Publishing for 2.2 billion, giving them a 31% global market share of the music publishing business. So does that leave Sony/ATV, Warner Music Group, and Universal Music Publishing Group as the big three?

Yes.

The deal to buy EMI was made in November and got approved in April by the European Commission antitrust authorities, making this a pretty much done deal for the FTC already.

In 2007 Universal took over BMG music publishing (and EMI's recording division) so there are basically only three major music publishers now: Sony, Warner and Universal publishing (and basically the same on the recording side).

Who else is out there in the business of managing & administering publishing?

Only three major players worldwide, but thousands of smaller publishing companies.

And of course performance rights societies such as ASCAP and BMI in the US and many others worldwide.

And if Prince decides to go with another publishing company, where to?

If he wants to go with a major it's only Sony, or Warner now. So like I said above already, I put my money on Sony.

[Edited 7/11/12 12:24pm]

daPrettyman said:

BMI and ASCAP are both music publishing houses. However, they both do the same job.

No, they are so-called performance rights societies. Closely alligned to music publising companies, but they are not companies owned by shareholders, but societies controlled by members. They collect royalties for airplay on radio and TV, or in bars, shops, malls, wherever music is performed publically they send a bill and collect royalties for their members. Their members are music song writers AND music publishers.

http://en.wikipedia.org/w...ganisation

[Edited 7/11/12 11:51am]

I really have no idea what this statement means.

Because I have no idea what a publisher does and how that music bizz works. And, I don't think I'll spend a lot of time to find out.

However, a market that is controlled by three major parties sounds fishy. But, aren't most markets under the control of just a few big companies?

If the consequence of Prince and UMPG going different ways, means he comes up with a good idea for his music distribution, I'm happy about it. Because it means new music release, right?

I've allways apreciated Prince his effort to shake up music industry. No matter if his motives were just to make more money for himself. I get the impression other musicians have benefited from Prince his fights, because he forced some changes.

And I would love to hear his new ideas. On cd that is........I'm still a digital nitwit....

[Edited 7/11/12 16:33pm]

Tremolina said:

daPrettyman said:

BMI and ASCAP are both music publishing houses. However, they both do the same job.

No, they are so-called performance rights societies. Closely alligned to music publising companies, but they are not companies owned by shareholders, but societies controlled by members. They collect royalties for airplay on radio and TV, or in bars, shops, malls, wherever music is performed publically they send a bill and collect royalties for their members. Their members are music song writers AND music publishers.

http://en.wikipedia.org/w...ganisation

[Edited 7/11/12 11:51am]

Thanx 4 clearing that up 4 me.

I think… Prince IS readying his own publishing company. An artist owning their own publishing company isn’t as rare as you may think these days, and will eventually become the norm for popular artists that can afford it. In the long run, hiring trustworthy and capable staff (good entertainment lawyer, accountants, administrators) and sidestepping the middle man publisher to control 100% of your own work makes much more than cents.

GaGa has her own music publishing company and in 2010 spent millions buying back her earlier work – and there are others.

Nothing mysterious about publishing. I have handled licensing for artists, film and corporations for years. Basically, it’s negotiation, legal and administration.

So I think what that line in the release (confusing some), is simply saying, is that this newfound freedom gives him new reason and a fresh outlook to produce. I think there’s a very good reason why he hasn’t put anything out lately and now that his contract is up and he isn’t renewing – he has real freedom now. This publishing issue has been hanging over his head like a wet blanket for too many years and now he can shake it off and finally do what he does best.

I think it’s a smart move.

Red said:

I think… Prince IS readying his own publishing company. An artist owning their own publishing company isn’t as rare as you may think these days, and will eventually become the norm for popular artists that can afford it. In the long run, hiring trustworthy and capable staff (good entertainment lawyer, accountants, administrators) and sidestepping the middle man publisher to control 100% of your own work makes much more than cents.

GaGa has her own music publishing company and in 2010 spent millions buying back her earlier work – and there are others.

Nothing mysterious about publishing. I have handled licensing for artists, film and corporations for years. Basically, it’s negotiation, legal and administration.

So I think what that line in the release (confusing some), is simply saying, is that this newfound freedom gives him new reason and a fresh outlook to produce. I think there’s a very good reason why he hasn’t put anything out lately and now that his contract is up and he isn’t renewing – he has real freedom now. This publishing issue has been hanging over his head like a wet blanket for too many years and now he can shake it off and finally do what he does best.

I think it’s a smart move.

Lady Gaga is with Sony/ATV Publishing...

http://www.sony.com/SCA/outline/atv.shtml

Maybe Prince could do it on his own, but he needs some professional people to handle it and not one or two people.

I think he should concentrate on his music again and not how to maximize his income, which it seems is his main concern since the last years.

Claude Nobs ( founder and producer of the montreux jazz festival) said recently, that they wanted to release Prince`s performance of 2009 at the jazz festival, but Prince wanted way too much

money! This performance was great and it`s a shame that the public won`t see it officially....

http://www.zeit.de/2012/26/Montreux-Festival-Claude-Nobs/seite-2

Genesia said:

SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:

language matters and I totally agree with you. Prince's statement are calculated and does paint him as the victim which is the only way his ego can comprehend life.

<-- runs to check the temperature in hell

errant said:

The long, laser-focused journey into obscurity had jusy been relieved of one more obstacle. [Edited 7/11/12 18:32pm]

FunkySideEffects said:

2020 said:

2012 - one the most boring years EVER to be a Prince fan

U obviously don't live in Australia. 2012 has been one of the best years of my life!!!!!!!

I a huge SECOND that. Now to get him back for 21 Nights at the Opera House!!!!!

I think GaGa's deal with Sony/ATV is 'administrative'.

he should embrace LiveNation and let Madonna give him some good advice

he has a MANAGER!!!!!?????

^ Hard to believe isn't it? Let's hope Prince has been cooking up some effective longterm strategy on how to protect/ distribute his music legacy

If not errant's reply (#8) could be a worrying indicator for the future....

linus4000 said:

I think he should concentrate on his music again and not how to maximize his income, which it seems is his main concern since the last years.

Claude Nobs ( founder and producer of the montreux jazz festival) said recently, that they wanted to release Prince`s performance of 2009 at the jazz festival, but Prince wanted way too much

money! This performance was great and it`s a shame that the public won`t see it officially....

http://www.zeit.de/2012/26/Montreux-Festival-Claude-Nobs/seite-2

that is just sad. sad.sad.sad.

IstenSzek said:

linus4000 said:

I think he should concentrate on his music again and not how to maximize his income, which it seems is his main concern since the last years.

Claude Nobs ( founder and producer of the montreux jazz festival) said recently, that they wanted to release Prince`s performance of 2009 at the jazz festival, but Prince wanted way too much

money! This performance was great and it`s a shame that the public won`t see it officially....

http://www.zeit.de/2012/26/Montreux-Festival-Claude-Nobs/seite-2

that is just sad. sad.sad.sad.

yeah, sad, but it doesn't explain why Prince has never released a DVD of his own 00's tours...specially the 21 Nights tour...

[Edited 7/12/12 8:29am]