saw that when she first posted it. U know what that means? Prince is almost ready to start releasing more brilliant groundbreaking "MasterPieces" & about to make a profound announcement..

^

Positively fantabulous!

KCOOLMUZIQ said:

saw that when she first posted it. U know what that means? Prince is almost ready to start releasing more brilliant groundbreaking "MasterPieces" & about to make a profound announcement..

I'll believe it when I see it or better yet "hear" it!

linus4000 said:

Sad! Instead of concentrating on his music, he has now to take care of his publishing rights, too!

And just to get a bigger peace of the cake....

He doesn`t understand that you need professional people to do things like music publishing...

Stop playing games and make music again!

Do you really think Prince doesn't know what he's doing?

funktologist said:

linus4000 said:

Sad! Instead of concentrating on his music, he has now to take care of his publishing rights, too!

And just to get a bigger peace of the cake....

He doesn`t understand that you need professional people to do things like music publishing...

Stop playing games and make music again!

Do you really think Prince doesn't know what he's doing?

Of course does he know whats he is doing. ..the question is, is he right?

He was very creative in releasing the music with new media (internet, newspapers), but in the end it hurt his visibility on the global music scene...the casual music listener has a hard time on getting and hearing his new stuff. Look at Frank Ocean...he just released a wonderful record and people buy and listen to it...just a normal album release via a record company...he speaks through his music...Prince is just playing games....

linus4000 said:

funktologist said:

Do you really think Prince doesn't know what he's doing?

Of course does he know whats he is doing. ..the question is, is he right?

He was very creative in releasing the music with new media (internet, newspapers), but in the end it hurt his visibility on the global music scene...the casual music listener has a hard time on getting and hearing his new stuff. Look at Frank Ocean...he just released a wonderful record and people buy and listen to it...just a normal album release via a record company...he speaks through his music...Prince is just playing games....

Right ... but, the on-going problem or question is how much $ will Frank Ocean make ( with the sell of his albums / music ) and will he keep his master recordings?

linus4000 said:

funktologist said:

Do you really think Prince doesn't know what he's doing?

Of course does he know whats he is doing. ..the question is, is he right?

He was very creative in releasing the music with new media (internet, newspapers), but in the end it hurt his visibility on the global music scene...the casual music listener has a hard time on getting and hearing his new stuff. Look at Frank Ocean...he just released a wonderful record and people buy and listen to it...just a normal album release via a record company...he speaks through his music...Prince is just playing games....

Why are you (and some others too) saying Prince should return to a traditional record company for his album releases? Prince has done that, albeit on and off basis (but owning his masters) and the days of scoring a hit and making lots of money on record sales are long over, including for record companies.

The money is still in publishing and touring tho'. And since publishing companies get a large piece of the pie of public performance royalties, it's very much in their interest and their job as well that the music of their songwriters becomes a big hit that is being played everywhere all the time.

Apparantly UMPG wasn't very succesful with Prince. 10 years of doing his publishing and only Musicology was a true hit (partly at least thanks to the trick P pulled with the concert tickets) Note: that's not to say that a lack of hits has been their fault, just stating the obvious.

[Edited 7/25/12 10:22am]

Because without a major record label (or something like one) he is almost invisible. Take 'Planet Earth' The day the album was released was the day it disappeared. No singles, no ongoing publicity. The album was released with the newspaper and the next day it was gone. Without record executives in his corner who's going to bully the radio stations into playing his new tunes?

I agree that for an artist the money is in publishing and touring. But without a big album and some activity on the charts (which inevitably leads to songs being played in clubs and on TV) how do you attract new listeners? How many more years can he sell out arenas and stadiums to play his hits some of his hits from the 80's and 90's. His last big single was from 'The Gold Experience'

Prince's best bet IMO is to buy "Prince.com" and sell his own tunes without bloated software and without a subscription just on a song by song or album by album basis.

As for his publishing, I dont see how it gets more exciting that what Universal was doing, but with his rabid disdain for youtube etc, Universal probably wanted more money to play paisley police on teh internetz.

My guess is he's going to go with a smaller publishing company and convince them to take a smaller cut of his royalties. Which isn't exciting at all, unless your idea of exciting is having more money to stencil more symbols on more tat.

[Edited 7/25/12 13:10pm]

[Edited 7/25/12 13:37pm]

KCOOLMUZIQ said:

Noodled24 said:

The album was released with the newspaper and the next day it was gone. Without record executives in his corner who's going to bully the radio stations into playing his new tunes?

That's not true. PE had a regular release too, handled by Sony/BMG. He worked with Universal records too. It simply wasn't a really great album, that also didn't get a good promotion.

Tremolina said:

Noodled24 said:

The album was released with the newspaper and the next day it was gone. Without record executives in his corner who's going to bully the radio stations into playing his new tunes?

That's not true. PE had a regular release too, handled by Sony/BMG. He worked with Universal records too. It simply wasn't a really great album, that also didn't get a good promotion.

Point taken, and perhaps I'm getting mixed up with Planet Earth and 20ten (PE had the lenticular cover release IIRC)

However I dont think I've seen either of those two albums on sale in the UK so you'd have to go out of your way to buy them (using the UK because thats where I am). Also there was no series of singles laid out or ongoing promotion over X amount of months to keep the albums going. Not that PE had (m)any strong songs. In the case of 20ten the strongest single - and most contemporary sounding song in a while was the hidden track.

So Prince got his big one off payment and the albums were dead in the water the day after they were released. Which again just proves the little guy is all about the money. He doesn't work the albums like he used to. (why should he!? some would say - why shouldn't he? I would respond expecting a platinum album off the back of the name "Prince" alone is the very definition of coasting)

Plus when you market an album as "free" people dont think twice about downloading it for free.

linus4000 said:

Sad! Instead of concentrating on his music, he has now to take care of his publishing rights, too!

And just to get a bigger peace of the cake....

He doesn`t understand that you need professional people to do things like music publishing...

Stop playing games and make music again!

I agree, we love him but he does not trust people and here we go again, he gets out of a deal and we the fans suffer because we wonder when we will get a new CD material of music from him. After Purple Rain he appears not to care about his music and putting out new material for we his true fans. Sad. He needs to get it together.

It would appear that after Purple Rain he no longer cares about his music and when he puts out a CD. I did not buy his last one because he gave them away for free in the UK, I found it here in LA on Sunset Blvd. at a record/CD store and they were charging 18 bucks for it, that really pissed me off. He needs to realize that although the devil might exist in the music business he needs professional people to handle some of his business, it is the nature of the beast. It is really sad that he wants full control of his business in ever aspect.

Noodled24 said:

you'd have to go out of your way to buy them (using the UK because thats where I am). Also there was no series of singles laid out or ongoing promotion over X amount of months to keep the albums going. Not that PE had (m)any strong songs. In the case of 20ten the strongest single - and most contemporary sounding song in a while was the hidden track.

Like I said. Promotion was not so good, album as a whole neither.

So Prince got his big one off payment and the albums were dead in the water the day after they were released. Which again just proves the little guy is all about the money. He doesn't work the albums like he used to. (why should he!? some would say - why shouldn't he? I would respond expecting a platinum album off the back of the name "Prince" alone is the very definition of coasting)

Plus when you market an album as "free" people dont think twice about downloading it for free.

It's not just Prince who is responsible. He may have been happy with a one off pay check, but Universal probably wasn't. Still, they didn't manage to improve it.

End of deal/story

[Edited 7/26/12 16:29pm]

I'm not sure Universal had anything to do with the release of either 'Planet Earth' or '20ten' I don't have the albums to hand to check, but I'm pretty sure (in the UK at least) these would have been through NPG Records.

Universal as his (former) publishing company only collect royalties on his back catalog - at least that's my understanding of how it works.

The deal brokered between Prince and the Newspapers and magazines was along the lines of - They give Prince a pile of money and Prince gives them a CD on the understanding that it's a covermount to be given away with the Newspaper on a specific date.

I guess from Universal publishing's point of view, it would be very hard to collect royalties from songs on an album that aren't being played. No singles = no airplay = no royalties. If that's correct then the onus for promotion was PURELY on Prince and team NPG. Other than perhaps the TV spots done by the newspapers. Which lets be honest, were there to sell newspapers not a Prince album.

Noodled24 said:

I'm not sure Universal had anything to do with the release of either 'Planet Earth' or '20ten' I don't have the albums to hand to check, but I'm pretty sure (in the UK at least) these would have been through NPG Records.

Sorry I got PE mixed up with 3121 that had a worldwide release handled by Universal records.

PE got a worldwide release by Columbia records, a division of Sony/BMG, after the newspaper release.

Prince also worked with them on Musicology.

I wasn't talking about 20ten. That one only got a single newspaper release.

NPG records is only Prince's label that does not have the capacity to arrange for a worldwide release itself, including promotion. Only the majors can really do that.

Universal as his (former) publishing company only collect royalties on his back catalog - at least that's my understanding of how it works.

How so and how would Prince then receive publishing royalties on more recently published songs?

I guess from Universal publishing's point of view, it would be very hard to collect royalties from songs on an album that aren't being played. No singles = no airplay = no royalties. If that's correct then the onus for promotion was PURELY on Prince and team NPG. Other than perhaps the TV spots done by the newspapers. Which lets be honest, were there to sell newspapers not a Prince album.

Yes, but publishing royalties are also made on record productions ('mechanical rights') and internet sales or broadcasts for example. Or whatever other form of publishing.

'Singles' don't make the great anymore, unless they are HUGE and the amount of 'airplay' is often not solely the factor in determining how much public performance royalties are paid.

Publishing companies normally have the task of promoting the songs too.

The newspaper deals were just one off deals and only in certain countries. They created a buzz, sold a huge amount of copies at once and didn't stop Prince from still doing a regular release too.

3121 and Musicology have had a fair amount of sales and public performances on radio and tv and also the Superbowl performance hype worked well for example.

Those 'comeback' years were the good years, commercially speaking. Prince was kinda 'popular' again for a while.

The beginning and end of the decade not so much however, altho' musically I think those were the best years.

[Edited 7/27/12 11:37am]

jojackson said:

KCOOLMUZIQ said:

saw that when she first posted it. U know what that means? Prince is almost ready to start releasing more brilliant groundbreaking "MasterPieces" & about to make a profound announcement..

I hope he finds the right distributors who really want to help him sell his music. Cause I'm dying for a new Prince album. Still hyped off of 20ten!

Prince has the "MasterPieces" all ready to go. He just needs the right situation behind it 2 release them...Its no need 4 them 2 go 2 waste....I'm glad he finally found a way. Obviously from what Kiran has revealed....

Tremolina said:

How so and how would Prince then receive publishing royalties on more recently published songs?

I guess from Universal publishing's point of view, it would be very hard to collect royalties from songs on an album that aren't being played. No singles = no airplay = no royalties. If that's correct then the onus for promotion was PURELY on Prince and team NPG. Other than perhaps the TV spots done by the newspapers. Which lets be honest, were there to sell newspapers not a Prince album.

Yes, but publishing royalties are also made on record productions ('mechanical rights') and internet sales or broadcasts for example. Or whatever other form of publishing.

'Singles' don't make the great anymore, unless they are HUGE and the amount of 'airplay' is often not solely the factor in determining how much public performance royalties are paid.

Publishing companies normally have the task of promoting the songs too.

The newspaper deals were just one off deals and only in certain countries. They created a buzz, sold a huge amount of copies at once and didn't stop Prince from still doing a regular release too.

3121 and Musicology have had a fair amount of sales and public performances on radio and tv and also the Superbowl performance hype worked well for example.

Those 'comeback' years were the good years, commercially speaking. Prince was kinda 'popular' again for a while.

The beginning and end of the decade not so much however, altho' musically I think those were the best years.

[Edited 7/27/12 11:37am]

How so and how would Prince then receive publishing royalties on more recently published songs?

Well once an album is released it then becomes part of his back catalog surely? Album X is released. I want to use song Z. I use song Z then pay Prince's publishing company or a 3rd party company who then pays the publishing company.

The reason I keep bringing singles into this is because these are the songs people "know" and as such are more likely to be sold/played/broadcast. You can't broadcast a music video for a song without a video. Rarely do you hear album tracks used in commercials or as instore music etc.

I'm not sure why a publishing company would promote songs - at best they would be able to offer them to media sourcing companies for potential use. If their job is basically to collect royalties? I really can't see a case where they'd have any input on promoting a new album - in the traditional sense of the word.

The actual Promotion is on the artist and the record company. I can't think of any example where they would then drag the company administering the publishing rights into the mix to take care of promotion.

Noodled24 said:

Tremolina said:

How so and how would Prince then receive publishing royalties on more recently published songs?

Yes, but publishing royalties are also made on record productions ('mechanical rights') and internet sales or broadcasts for example. Or whatever other form of publishing.

'Singles' don't make the great anymore, unless they are HUGE and the amount of 'airplay' is often not solely the factor in determining how much public performance royalties are paid.

Publishing companies normally have the task of promoting the songs too.

The newspaper deals were just one off deals and only in certain countries. They created a buzz, sold a huge amount of copies at once and didn't stop Prince from still doing a regular release too.

3121 and Musicology have had a fair amount of sales and public performances on radio and tv and also the Superbowl performance hype worked well for example.

Those 'comeback' years were the good years, commercially speaking. Prince was kinda 'popular' again for a while.

The beginning and end of the decade not so much however, altho' musically I think those were the best years.

[Edited 7/27/12 11:37am]

How so and how would Prince then receive publishing royalties on more recently published songs?

Well once an album is released it then becomes part of his back catalog surely? Album X is released. I want to use song Z. I use song Z then pay Prince's publishing company or a 3rd party company who then pays the publishing company.

Well, the back catalogue are all of the works previously produced by a recording artist, group, or record company. It normally doesn't refer to new or very recent works. In case of Prince e.g it usually refers to his 80's and 90's output but not yet to his 00's output.

The reason I keep bringing singles into this is because these are the songs people "know" and as such are more likely to be sold/played/broadcast. You can't broadcast a music video for a song without a video. Rarely do you hear album tracks used in commercials or as instore music etc.

That's all true, but the single market has changed a lot, especially due to downloading. It usually costs much more now to produce and promote a good single than what you can make of it. You generally need a really huge hit, selling millions and getting played millions of times, but really huge hits selling millions aren't the norm anymore.

I'm not sure why a publishing company would promote songs - at best they would be able to offer them to media sourcing companies for potential use. If their job is basically to collect royalties? I really can't see a case where they'd have any input on promoting a new album - in the traditional sense of the word.

It's a standard clause in many publishing agreements because it's in the interest of the publisher as well to promote the music.

The actual Promotion is on the artist and the record company. I can't think of any example where they would then drag the company administering the publishing rights into the mix to take care of promotion.

It's on both/all involved.

see for example:

http://www.mpaonline.org.uk/FAQ

The role of a music publisher involves:

• Finding new and talented songwriters and composers and encouraging and supporting them as they develop their skills, whether through helping with their living expenses, providing them with the facilities they need to produce music or offering advice and guidance in writing for particular markets
• Securing commissions for new works and helping to coordinate work flow
• Registering the works of songwriters and composers with all appropriate collecting societies and agencies, eg PRS for Music in the UK
• Producing demo recordings and, in the case of contemporary classical music, performance materials (score and parts etc);
• Producing and licensing the production of printed music
• Producing promotional materials, including sampler CDs, study scores, brochures etc
• Promoting composers and songwriters and their music to performers, broadcasters, record companies and others who use music on a commercial basis, both nationally and internationally
• Licensing the use of music, whether directly in the case of individual and special usages (eg synchronisation deals) or via the collecting society network
• Responding to new licensing opportunities that flow from technological developments
• Monitoring and tracking the use of the music they own and ensuring that proper payment is made for all licensed uses
• Making royalty payments to songwriters and composers in respect of the usage of their music
• Taking appropriate action against anyone using music without the necessary licence

and:

http://www.ifpi.org/conte..._music.pdf

[Edited 7/29/12 5:11am]

can someone explain in laymans terms what this means ? more revenue ? more freedom? how?

NEWS FLASH!!! No radio station is going to push/promote a 54 year old man....period. Prince is WAY past his prime...music scene is a "young man's" game...

Prince will put an album out...thie die hards will buy it...may pick up a few new fans and radio will forget it...then on to the next album with the same process...

He needs to remember the internet is not dead...put "the vault" on an I-tunes format...let the fans buy what they want and he can be a rich old jolly fucker!!!

avasdad said:

NEWS FLASH!!! No radio station is going to push/promote a 54 year old man....period. Prince is WAY past his prime...music scene is a "young man's" game...

Prince will put an album out...thie die hards will buy it...may pick up a few new fans and radio will forget it...then on to the next album with the same process...

He needs to remember the internet is not dead...put "the vault" on an I-tunes format...let the fans buy what they want and he can be a rich old jolly fucker!!!

I agree. Even if Interscope Records signed Prince, he is not going to get heavy rotation on Hot 97 and any other station that is "home to hip-hop and r&b". He has longevity and but he is no longer relevant to the people who listen to new music on a continuous bIasement. Club-goers won't check for Prince's dance music, not because it may not be good, but today's listeners have a select few of artists they dig.

Prince is in a quandry because he still wants to use the 20th century model of putting out music, but in the digital age, e-commerce is here to stay. So unless, he softens his stance against today's music industry, we just MIGHT have heard the last album from Prince: 20TEN.

avasdad said:

NEWS FLASH!!! No radio station is going to push/promote a 54 year old man....period. Prince is WAY past his prime...music scene is a "young man's" game...

Prince will put an album out...thie die hards will buy it...may pick up a few new fans and radio will forget it...then on to the next album with the same process...

He needs to remember the internet is not dead...put "the vault" on an I-tunes format...let the fans buy what they want and he can be a rich old jolly fucker!!!

I think this is where berniejobs' idea comes in. He can promote himself and his proteges release whatever he wants and even do studio performances and concert simulcasts on a prince channel on sirius. It makes too much sense to not do it.

^how many albums have sold 10 million or more over, let's say the last decade?

A few maybe?

And how much does a major make on you and your freedom with a 360 deal, in return of their million dollar advances? A WHOLE LOT MORE than you ever would maybe?

Freedom is worth a lot, especially when you are already loaded with money.

BlackCandle said:

Some one may have already suggestedthis, but is it possible Prince released Planet Earth and 20TEN through the Newspapers precisely to get out of his publishing contract? Scuppering Universal as he did Warner Bros with his last few WB albums? [Edited 8/4/12 3:27am]

A PUBLISHING DEAL IS NOT A RECORD CONTRACT!