SpiritOtter said:

Please be respectful to all viewpoints, otherwise you will be banished.

Err.......... to where?

i'm curious as to what evidence do YOU have to state that he's no longer a strict JW? he was never a "lone wolf" per se as sprituality, albeit more "orthodox Christianity" has long permeated his music and his struggle with the "sacred and profane" is an age old struggle many artists have had and still have.

I haven't seen any inications that he's a 'lone wolf' as far as religion goes.

Only Prince knows how immersed he is in the JW faith.

Hi SpiritOtter,

I don't know the chronology of his music very well but I'll take some rough guesses to what bought him to being a strong JW, by recalling the spiritual moment through the musical journey I'm familiar with in Prince music so far. Note, it's all speculation just as in your title and it's my interpetation of a possiblity.

Prince was subjected to harsh realities of life at a young age. This caused him to wonder more deeply that the boy next door about life in general. In Dirty Mind, deep songs like 'got a broken heart again and his first album with sweet love songs, show his sensitivity and quest perhaps for real love. He questions life and peoples' idea in controversy, 'am I black or white....I just can't believe all the things people say.' It seems he wants this to be a fair world, knows it isn't and can't understand why.

He's kind of happy and relaxed in 1999. All the critics love you, regardless of whether you're cool or can dance, there's nothing to worry about. Purple Rain comes and there's dearly beloved. His music gets him through life, it feeds his soul but he still hasn't found the peace. The beautiful ones always smash the pictures, always every time. I would die for you. He wants to know the unconditional sacrifice of love. 'Why do we scream at each other?'

Around the world...pop life.. everyone needs a thrill, things are getting him down, he begins to see through the American dream, he wants to find the ladder but he cannot resist temptation of whatever it was he needed at the time. So Paisley park is the place where love will be imparted. Again his music, his soul ground, is the food that temporarily feeds his searching.

Cherry Moon. Here he is not really on the spirtual track he is more interested in love but he gets hurt. Love wounded and crucified him. Anotherloverholehead, sometimes......'I feel so bad.' All good things never last.....he's beginning to see the temporary side to fame, fortune etc etc. But he's been too busy to seek spiritual comfort.

SOTT - he's pondering again about what goes on in the world, how will it go down, where is the justice in it all. Love though, has channelled him to write strong music and lyrics about 'hot things, slow love' etc and then comes the Cross. He knows that there has to be something better, stronger, bigger than himself that can answer all his questions. But one day, 'all our problems will be taken by' he keeps it on a back burner.

Lovesexy, 'I no' there's a heaven and a hell and 'I wish you heaven' and love and positivity but I'm funky and I still wanna go down to Alphabet street. I'm not ready.

Batman - 'he's seen the future and it will be' new world needs.....he's in love again, deeply, trust and sexual passion rule his world, Scandalous. He'll take the electric chair he can't resist the temptation of having as much as he wants. 'The search is over' at least for this album.

Grafitti Bridge - (I haven't seen the movie) I don't know what's going on here but it's as if he wants to stop fighting with himself. He's torn between doing what others want and expect of him and his finds his own way. The NPG.

D&P - live for love. His understanding of love man to woman is growing. 'All I can do is just offer you' 'which one of us is right...' He's become more peaceful, the music is in a way more sophisticated on a few tracks (Prince ones) and the knowledge that materialism is superficial 'money don't matter' is becoming ever apparent.

Symbol - there is tension somewhere. His love life has ups and downs, he's become a little cocky, he sometimes despairs at the power a woman can hold over him. His spiritual hunger is still there but it's in the background, overshadowed by work. But in 7 'i saw an angel'

Come - He is blanketed in love and passion and cares mostly for this. Yet memories 'Papa' Dark and Solo still plague him. The cover is La Sagrada Familia, he addresses race but he will not succumb to the thought of a higher power that could be more important that he himself.

TBA - well we'v heard lots of stories. Something happened that jerked his reality. He'd been really tied up in doing what he only wanted. He was still searching for own identity and self worth.

TGE - Together with his woman they explore deeper meanings to life. I think in this era there are references to Egypt. Something most spirit lovers explore. Perhaps he read Initiation by Elizabeth Haich.

I'll leave it at that for now and continue another time....because hereafter is where I believe we see the transformation clearly. Up till now he has been skirting alone the edge of spirituality and deeper meaning of life. Seeking but not finding, only broadening his insights.

I think Prince really believes he is a real JW, but he still sings about sex, still performs "Bambi," every now and then. I doubt any die hard JW would be singing about Lesbian women, unless it was maybe a quick reference to how much they hate gays. Prince seems to be one of those intense mentally strong people with split personalities, where on some days he is weaker minded and not quite able to make sense of the world. His 2002 period was the time when he was probably at his peak as a JW, and still sang Bambi a few times. 2002 was one of his best tours, as was the 2004 tour. If being a better JW somehow was related to the quality of Prince's tours, I'd beg him to get back into being a more heavy JW, but they are not related. Prince is going to be whatever he is going to be.

SpiritOtter said:

Good question, Lianachan. It depends on your viewpoint... love, Spirit

This has been on my mind the last few days actually. I have been thinking about it and also thought how religious people went through different phases. I mean, nobody has the same take on life all the time, right? Even dogmatic religious people change views (stricter or not) and that will reflect in their work and way they deal with people around them.

I guess the same goes for P. I don't know where he is at now. However, I assume he's not standing still. I mean he can have the same take on life as he did 20, 15 or 5 years ago. He's not that dogmatic, is he?

I suspect his different spiriual phases reflect in his work. Makes me wonder about his next projects.

I don't belief in religious doctrines, as they are human inventions. All the books (testaments, Koran and all other religious scriptures) written by humans and interpreted by humans. Despite good intentions, that can't be a divine thing.

Still there is the matter of choas vs predestiny.

I rely strongly on my 'gut' feeling and intuition. Oftentimes that feels spiritual, aka, predestined. However, that still just is me interpretating a strong feeling. Lately I've experienced that sense of destiny in a strong way. It feels spiritual to me.

In that same sense, I have experienced a 'spiritual' sensation at Prince his Rock Werchter concert in Belgium. However, I could also interpret that evening as a great atmosphere in stead of relating it to spiritual meanings.

I feel very connected to his music and songs. To me it feels very different than any other band or musician I dig. I don't know if his spirituality in his albums have anything to do with that.

I can interpret anything about Prince as 'spiritual' if I want to. Just as I can interpret random Prince events as coincidence and not pay attention to it.

E.G. On P's birthday my mom came by and we were drinking coffee and chatting away. I told her it was P's birthday and this is what she said:

"Ah, birthdays.........I don't belief in time. It's just some concept. Days and nights are important, time is just a stupid invention by mankind."

And she didn't understand why I just couldn't stop laughing after her remark about birthdays.

[Edited 6/15/12 12:21pm]

omg who cars?

Milty said:

Lianachan said:

SpiritOtter said:

Please be respectful to all viewpoints, otherwise you will be banished.

Err.......... to where?

The Digital Garden.

In all seriousness, I agree with the "respect all religions" because that's what I stand for. Just don't threaten people with the "or you'll be banished/go to hell/etc" because I think that's disrespectful as well.

I've been in thought about this as well....

I think as someone mentioned; when he first became a Jehovah Witness, he was at his peak. He seemed to be quoting and referencing any and everything to 'Jehovah'. Even when he would performed Purple rain he would encourage the audience to open up their bibles..'The New World Translation to let God guide them to the Purple Rain'. I can't judge Prince on his faith, he is just as free to believe what he believe as we are free to 'Believe'.

He is all about a universal type of love. He has always been about this. One that transcends domination's, cults, traditions, or instituted systems. Sometimes, I don't even feel he is a witness but that he "Thinks" he is one. Whatever you 'think' is true (To You of course), but if we were to define him by some of the rules, and references the Watchtower society governs, he would not be a witness. I have a couple of JW friends, and they don't even feel he is one; based on what one friend described as Prince having 'Pagan obsession with androgyny'. Hahaha

I say this based on his behavior (Which is quite normal and acceptable to me) But the Jehovah Witness's are very particular about how you live and how you should think or dress.

He has definitely evolved into a person of a more diverse human being. He has convictions, but he is not strict. He's in a business, and it's quite difficult for him to outcast himself. A lot people perhaps thought he would not dress as 'raunchy' when he became a JW because he was mostly formal with a lot of suits and what not. But I think it was also the concept of the era and not of his whole clothing apparel.

I am speaking of clothing, because clothing is MAINLY what society judges you by. AND Prince, has always expressed a sense of being free in what you wear. How it should not matter, and it does not. BUT I am going on a tangent...lol

I would just say, it's hard to determine if he is a witness or not. We only know what he gives us, and he does not give us a lot surrounding his personal life. He gives us music and certainly 'The Rainbow Children' is much heavier with JW beliefs, than '3121, Lotusflow3r, 20Ten, etc.

As the years has gone by he's not as expressive about those beliefs, occasionally he says something. But it seems as if he only quotes them when he wants to avoid conversations about anything personal..lol

We only know him from a distance, he has only revealed so much. But the more we 'Look' and 'Hear' from him we perceive our opinions on him. Because that's the only way we really can know him by what he says or what he has on..Very interesting. I'll come back and explain a little more.

NeonCraxx said:

Lianachan said:

Err.......... to where?

The Digital Garden.

Sorry it's long posts SpiritOtter but to understand where Prince is I need to digest the history. Thoughts on paper help this. (well online...think of all the trees we're saving

Up to just before this point he thinks that he's found all the answers to life, spiritually and emotionally speaking. The fight with WB is a rude wake up call to 'all that glitters ain't gold' but love is with him (TMBGitW) and he is able to be strong, rebel, carry the slave slogan, adopting an aggressive looking, nobody can touch me, I'll win stance. He takes a swipe at the press BJB.

But its tough. There is literally Chaos and disorder. Dig u better dead (original thought to WB)? The battle and personal strife is taking its toll. Yet inside he has this faith, 'I will walk this road' ' Every soul must return into the light' 'Right the wrong' He's torn though, and energy is going out in all directions so still no solid spiritual commitment.

It's around this period that tragedy hits his life in more ways than one. When exactly I'm not sure (between which albums) but the carpet is swept out from under his feet. Emancipation (freedom) is released. It's an exhale, 'new world', new beginnings this is what he had been working on. The love songs are this album show Prince has known and felt incredible love but the journey has also had its confusion and disappointments. His relationship under the stress factors probably now begins to crumble.

It's in moment like these when people reach out to find the ultimate meaning of it all. How could it all go so wrong? Is it karma, Third eye, a Buddhist and Hindu concept on The Truth reveals the journey through this sadness to the place where he is able to accept and understand that he is responsible for his journey. The truth itself, is the turning point. Something had to change, rearrange, reconstruct to take him away from all the chaos and disorder and he has found it. There is still sadness, 'comeback' 'one of your tears' and subtle anger 'don't play me' but with renewed spritual conviction and energy he is able to release it and be true to himself. Welcome to the dawn. The new spiritual journey has begun and the new path being paved.

The last album for Warner 1999, The Vault. Old friends for Sale, he no longer cares for them, he has found a place for it all. The music is carefree and happy, there is peace and a new path despite the end of his relationship. He is back in control. There is lonely and Extraordinary reflecting those love extremes.

Rave - the change of the century. 'Tonight we're gonna party like its 1999' was in the end a long way from what he had imagined. Style change, love is found again, new seeking, new friends, new music.

An accumulation of the last few years of evolution (emotional and spiritual) guide Prince to TRC. It's a story of what work needs to be done to reach spiritual enlightenment and peace, for 'if your last December...' Prince has found an answer, solution, reason and energy to begin a spiritual journey which will transform him and his past into what he really wants to become. What he has always beleived in but not been able to fully materialise. He has moved from the dawn to the books and perhaps for the first time, Prince, the musician finds himself academically and mentally hungry for knowledge.

Now I'm off to talk to the animals. Till next time

NeonCraxx said:

Lianachan said:

Err.......... to where?

The Digital Garden.

In all seriousness, I agree with the "respect all religions" because that's what I stand for. Just don't threaten people with the "or you'll be banished/go to hell/etc" because I think that's disrespectful as well.

You betcha! When I read the opening lines to this thread/threat I felt very disrespected.
Religion should be personal. Many wars would not have started if it was. They're not all about oil, you know... If religion is what it is today; from killing in the name of God to banishing people on the internet, there is still a long way to go... Believing is ok. Believing that you God is the one true God is ok. But disrespecting other people saying the same thing about another God or saying that they do not believe in anything but evolution is NOT ok.

I respect you and your religion, but think again next time before you type the word 'banished'.

Lianachan said:

SpiritOtter said:

Please be respectful to all viewpoints, otherwise you will be banished.

Err.......... to where?

Totally agree, no born again cult follower is going to threaten me with banishment. This is a democratic peoples forum where science and reason should dictate over superstitious clap trap like certain groups of Dogmatic so called Christians. Stop dogging me with your dogma.

Maybe we should banish these born again Christians back to 1612 and they can spread their hate there.

People have been saying this for years, tell us something we don't know.

...I like it here....

Bohemian67..I enjoyed reading your posts. Just curious though, what would be your take on P's mindstate during the "Black Album"?

This stupid ass thread.

It's like watching Ridley Scott's Prometheus. I know it's trying to say something profound, but I'm really just awed by all the explosions and tits.

imago said:

This stupid ass thread.

It's like watching Ridley Scott's Prometheus. I know it's trying to say something profound, but I'm really just awed by all the explosions and tits.

Delete flame - langebleu - moderator

NeonCraxx said:

Lianachan said:

Err.......... to where?

The Digital Garden.

In all seriousness, I agree with the "respect all religions" because that's what I stand for. Just don't threaten people with the "or you'll be banished/go to hell/etc" because I think that's disrespectful as well.

Well - in this case it was far too pompous, and was too utterly preposterous, to be taken anywhere near seriously enough to be considered disrespectful.

imago said:

This stupid ass thread.

It's like watching Ridley Scott's Prometheus. I know it's trying to say something profound, but I'm really just awed by all the explosions and tits.

i haven't seen Prometheus yet but i concur. I think you and i should wage a crusade agianst this thread.

Adorecream said:

Lianachan said:

Err.......... to where?

Totally agree, no born again cult follower is going to threaten me with banishment. This is a democratic peoples forum where science and reason should dictate over superstitious clap trap like certain groups of Dogmatic so called Christians. Stop dogging me with your dogma.

Maybe we should banish these born again Christians back to 1612 and they can spread their hate there.

It seems that many here do not understand the tone and subtlety of British (English) humour. To take SpiritOtter's comment seriously, is just missing the point.

Your last comment is totally unncessary and says far more about you than SpiritOtter. He asked only, if you do not believe then this is not the thread for you.

How can you say 'democratic forum' and in the same breath say 'they should dictate?' You're contradicting yourself. No one is dogging you with dogma, it is you choose to be affected by it.