Spot on, Bohemian67.

I shall respond shortly to you with more in-depth musings following your interesting forays into Prince's psychospiritual journey.

Out of curiosity, what's your professional trade?

Please feel free to OrgNote me.

love,

Spirit

luv4u said:

Only Prince knows how immersed he is in the JW faith.

One might argue, perhaps, that only GOD knows.

love,

Spirit

datdude said:

he was never a "lone wolf" per se as sprituality, albeit more "orthodox Christianity" has long permeated his music and his struggle with the "sacred and profane" is an age old struggle many artists have had and still have.

I understand and agree with the latter part of what you say, datdude, but can you expand further upon what I have highlighted above in bold?

Specifically, I am wondering how do Prince's visions of Uptown, Paisley Park, Graffiti Bridge etc suggest he has been anything other than a lone wolf, creating his own universe?

love,

Spirit

TheEnglishGent said:

I haven't seen any inications that he's a 'lone wolf' as far as religion goes.

TheEnglishGent,

The same question could apply to your conclusion.

How do Prince's visions of Uptown, Paisley Park, Graffiti Bridge etc suggest he has been anything other than a lone wolf, creating his own universe?

love,

Spirit

What often happens when you are first a Jehovahs Witness you are very zealous and almost over-bearing as you are so enthusiastic, but after you have been in the faith a few years you become more balanced and not so over the top. It is just time makes you more mellow even though your faith is still strong

SPYZFAN1 said:

Bohemian67..I enjoyed reading your posts. Just curious though, what would be your take on P's mindstate during the "Black Album"?

Thank-you. They're just drafts really of thoughts but I enjoy writing them.

I think this album was recorded in a time for someone's birthday, when comments made Prince question his identity and it's relativeness to his music. Teenagers and middle-agers have these crises but it's related to puberty and getting old. With Prince however, it was neither and I need to get personal here, he is a beautiful mix of black and white. Remember his father would not allow him to play the piano? Something he longed to do and perhaps also to 'be' like his father, like any child normally does?

Perhaps in TBA, in trying to show his roots 'for others' he was unconsciously trying to also compensate for this past unhealed relationship and went overboard in the creation. Overboard meaning very far from his usual output. If he realised this just before its release, due to whatever reasons, it's natural that he would want to shun the project. Non commerciality and private use for a birthday are good reasons for the public but I wonder if there weren't other reasons. A realisation of 'I don't have to prove anything to anybody, I know who I am' so the whole album was a spiritual workout for his past, although perhaps unknowingly. All speculation of course!

It was eventually released. It is not a good/bad, right or wrong album, it just depends on what music moves you. It served a good purpose eventually as an end contract filler and the time he concentrated then on Lovesexy which I think is Prince's feminine side. I think his mother was religious and I think he had a better relationship with her than his father, with whom at the time he might still have only felt unconcious pent up anger. It was another quest in the spiritual search for Prince, that album, though all the while, he was still not looking inside but outside for this freedom.

I'm really happy he's into jazz now because this is where he truely embraces not only the 'black' side of his culture, which he had perhaps ignored, but also because it is truely a part of pure American historical culture. As the music is softer, I think this genre enables him to harmonise his feminine and masculine sides well plus blend his colourful heritage to the max. Apart from it just being something any professional would do. When one masters one thing, they move to another.

To continue. I don't have the karmasutra album but I believe this reflects Prince's flirting with Eastern religions.

TRC needs no explanation into where Prince's spiritual journey had taken him. He is now fully committed to something. He's in a new relationship and Mani surrenders to following his faith. Cursing in albums becomes a thing of the past. He's fresh and renewed.

In his musical journey in which I think we, as fans, get to share his spiritual development we get to the natural soulful ONA. If the album was made completely after TRC its worth noting that he throws in Pearls before the Swine here, from the book of Matthew. Prompted by fan reactions to TRC? His life is still in balance and it could just be a societal message. 'Will we say grace 2 r father holding hands on down on our knees? R we better off just fighting?' He's a bird and he'll keep on singing regardless. It's an album of new sexual values, 'keep your virginity/chastity' but it's still sexually sensual.

Expectations and N.E.W.S. instrumentals to me are reflections of a peaceful path and direction. More of him just 'being' than being the music completely in word and song too.

Musicology Oh dear, On the couch...(problems with Mani starting) ? Still sexual lyrics, societal issues in Cinnamon girl and Mr Man, and back to funk and thrill. Reflection I think is worth paying attention to. He's amended the past with Wendy and their duo on tv is profound!! It sound like his relationship is falling apart and he's trying to save it. Mani filed in 2006, but relationships deteriorate slowly, not suddenly. 'I was just thinking about my mother, afros and sometimes I just wanna play my guitar' ...a truely nostalgic Prince. Perhaps a moment of spiritual doubt as he watches his lovelife go wrong again.

Of the next 3 albums I am only a little familiar with C-Note - here, he's still on the jazz path, the peaceful path and making music that he just enjoys for the quality of it all and not the show.

Prince's journey has sometimes been a rollar-coaster but he's been cruising 4 a while. 3121 Despite his private life, 'music and faith get him through.' Fury but ballads all speak of tenderness. Faith presented in The Word, Get on the Boat. The dance....speaks of loss but in a spiritually mature voice, although it hurts it does not stop the love. Perhaps a new learning phase and time for reflection in his spiritual journey. Faith has not saved his love-life.

Planet earth - societal messages about earth and war. He's on the lookout for love again 'somewhere here on earth' and despite his regret, his failure will not deter him from his belief in his faith. Lion of Judah. Tender 'future baby mama'. A return to rock, it's as if since TRC he has been has been rediscovering his musical past, redesigning it without the need to shock. Re-defining himself.

Lotus - A return to Eastern spiritual concepts, the lotus being a symbol of sexual purity and non-attachment. Society aspect gets Dreamer and Colonised mind, as always a divine peace in the instrumentals and ballads. The album flows perhaps in an analogy to where Prince is, no more storms or tidal waves.

20Ten gives another rainbow of topics. The purple Yoda reminds us that 'the only gold that's worth stashing is compassion,' and of pure love (ballads) happiness (Lavaux), and society in 'Act of God'. Plus funk and the comical everybody loves me.

So far, the thread of love and compassion is ever present as from the beginning but in over 10 years he hasn't questioned his faith/himself as he did in Anna Stesia 'maybe maybe I could learn to love ...I mean the right way...I mean the only way....perhaps.... if I was closer to God, closer to your higher self.' His mind and soul have been liberated.

In conclusion, yes, Prince has always believed in a Supreme Being and higher consciousness. This theme has been there from the beginning and I've mentioned only a handful of songs that reflect this. A thorough research would reveal far more. I attribute his path to the factors of life experience, his partnership with music (which requires a continual out pouring of the inner self) and his position of fame and wealth which has helped show him that there is more to life. I attribute the conversion to JW as a reaction to the awful things in his life at the time. He'd been searching but hadn't found and when he was left with nothing, (spiritually) he needed something solid and concrete, no longer just ideas in the air. It seems as if he's less strict, but maybe people over estimated this due to the TRC album and because Mani & Bria were also JWs. He'd never dated women with or in a faith before.

Prince hasn't changed I think, he has matured. Is he a lone wolf? I've become so involved in the spiritual aspect of the music progression you'll have you to help me out there, with ideas and with regard to the new album.

What do you see coming SpiritOtter?

SpiritOtter said:

luv4u said:

Only Prince knows how immersed he is in the JW faith.

One might argue, perhaps, that only GOD knows.

love,

Spirit

Dear SpiritOtter,

That is a very good argument.

Love,

DJJ

raddahone said:

If u look inside urself deeply,u will see how deep Prince is. Also, we sometimes have super holy incarnations and then can go to an incarnation as a soldier. It is all about where God assigns us to go.

From his recent Australian Tour:

"So what I got baptized... I still like a fire between your thighs."

THAT is how deep Prince is in the JW faith. In other words, he uses it at his convenience, just like everything else he has ever done when it comes to religion. Read up on the way he still treated people who worked with him during his umpteen other spiritual "epiphanies".

Bohemian67 said:

Hi SpiritOtter,

Prince was subjected to harsh realities of life at a young age. This caused him to wonder more deeply that the boy next door about life in general.

Around the world...he begins to see through the American dream, he wants to find the ladder but he cannot resist temptation of whatever it was he needed at the time. So Paisley park is the place where love will be imparted. Again his music, his soul ground, is the food that temporarily feeds his searching.

TBA...He was still searching for own identity and self worth.

Lovesexy...I'm not ready...The Gold Experience.

Up till now he has been skirting alone the edge of spirituality and deeper meaning of life. Seeking but not finding, only broadening his insights.

Bohemian67,

Thank you for your thoughts so far. It has been a pleasure seeing you contemplate and theorise certain ideas.

I hope you don't mind, but I have paraphrased your first response to what I believe is your primary thesis, namely that, up until The Gold Experience, Prince simply toyed with different ideas/ideologies of spirituality (including those emerging from the East) which he had interwoven in his music, but without firmly committing to any singular path he felt entirely was 'the' path.

Whilst it might appear simple for even a lay audience to conclude the above aspect to his spiritual journey, especially given his conversion subsequently towards the singular belief system of the Jehovah Witness group, I am mostly intrigued by perhaps your first opening statement (which you have appeared to gloss over):

"Prince was subjected to harsh realities of life at a young age. This caused him to wonder more deeply than the boy next door about life in general."

I wonder, was Prince truly subjected to a harsh reality of life at a young age? If that were the case, I then wonder about the numerous examples of those individuals who both subjectively and objectively appear to have survived more disenfranchising earlier experiences in life, but who later did not either feel the need for spirituality or a singular path of religion.

I feel this may be an important point in beginning to understand Prince's potential nature (rather than his potential environment) which may have been and may still be a predisposing factor toward his searching for and experiencing of GOD, or a higher power/supreme being, a common trajectory amongst those who are creatively and artistically inclined in terms of their neurological make-up.

Even if we move beyond the limits of science, in terms of understanding the neurobiopsychological make-up of creative genius, and we consider an alternative realm of understanding personality, for example astrology, his star sign Gemini is also it would appear drawn toward the dichotomy of opposing planes e.g. spirituality / sexuality, dark / light etc.

For further interpretation of Prince's astrological make-up, I would like to refer you to Dalia11's interesting 'reading' of his birthdate and the personal path someone born on 07.06.58 would likely experience in terms of hia/her strengths and weaknesses. It certainly makes for a fascinating portrait of how certain transition points in Prince's psychospiritual journey may have either been "born" to happen or certainly likely to emerge, given particular triggers e.g. artistic genius at work and emerging coping strateguies through life's potential crises.

All of this is to say that, before we even attempt to consider Prince's psychohistoriography, it would appear there are at least two additional factors to bear in mind:

1) the neuropsychological make up of creative genius (and I would hypothesise that Prince is creatively genius [original, creative, potentially groundbreaking] as a musician), especially given the well researched and documented career/life trajectory toward spiritual crises/transitions/growth of known genius e.g. Michaelangelo

2) the astrological proclivity of any individual born on 07.06.58 towards heightened sensory experiences (especially in what might be termed spiritual growth planes), especially if one was to explore an alternative, non-scientific, approach (i.e. astrological chart readings) of the likely strengths and weaknesses of such a person (in this particular case, Prince).

My point is, it is often easy for those of us to speculate with a retrospective hypothesis regarding the inner psyche of a person who has created a vast body of work, given that, in Prince's case, we have an expansive 30+ year catalogue of musical (and lyrical) recordings. However, such a retrospective account written by a 'knowing' audience does not, and cannot, account for what perhaps might be the simple psychospiritual journey for ANYONE born with a potential neurological / astrological propensity for...GOD.

I conclude at this juncture by saying that I would like to hear more from you regarding Prince's allegedly difficult upbringing in terms of what you feel you can theorise may be significant in his psychological make-up predisposing him towards a higher consciousness, as expressed through his music?

I think you can attempt this task, Bohemian67, and dare I say it, excel, but I would like you to try and remain focussed or the time being on what you can glean from Prince's early upbringing (before the music we all know was created).

Good luck!

love,

Spirit

Maybe Prince is in fact the ANTICHRIST

Hi SpiritOtter,

SpiritOtter said:

I am mostly intrigued by perhaps your first opening statement (which you have appeared to gloss over):

"Prince was subjected to harsh realities of life at a young age. This caused him to wonder more deeply than the boy next door about life in general."

The reason I did not elaborate here is that I thought it inappropriate to go into something so personal and that the data we have is sketchy. I’m pertaining to things he has said. ‘Epilepsy as a child, the angel vision’ how he got his name, that he wasn't allowed to play his father's piano, parental divorce and subsequent shift of home to friends after his mother, being on his own from a young age, and the societal wealth afforded to him by his parents. Things I have heard do not speak of a harmonious, nurturing upbringing. Of the early childhood things, I have other ideas of interpretation but I don’t feel it correct to discuss here.

Divorce of parents in adolescence is a harsh reality, for any teenager, but not every teenager grows up to be a superstar and a legend, the latter of which brings about a multiple of new external factors and contrastive living conditions compared to his youth.

I then wonder about the numerous examples of those individuals who both subjectively and objectively appear to have survived more disenfranchising earlier experiences in life, but who later did not either feel the need for spirituality or a singular path of religion.

While not all individuals experiencing the same or worse turn to ‘God,’ many do and they are either with or without creativity. We don’t know what drove Larry Graham to drugs yet the drug hard life reality led him religion too. Just one example of many. While external environment might not be the deciding factor I feel it can be a strong contributing factor.

I feel this may be an important point in beginning to understand Prince's potential nature (rather than his potential environment) which may have been and may still be a predisposing factor toward his searching for and experiencing of GOD, or a higher power/supreme being, a common trajectory amongst those who are creatively and artistically inclined in terms of their neurological make-up.

I do not think it possible to exclude the environment from potential original nature when discussing spiritual development. There is cause ‘nature’ and effect ‘psyche development’ which is reaction, growth or retardation from external factors. They compliment or are in conflict but together they produce the consciousness/reality. I think here of research of human potential nature to acquire their mother tongue (L1) under Chompsky’s universal grammar hypothesis and where L1 could not be acquired where natural linguistic environmnent was denied. i.e. external factors changed an innate nature. Scientific research has also measured neurobiological change through strong events experienced by the developing brain. So environment and spiritual development to me are inseparable.

While those with innate creativity may be more predisposed to searching for higher purpose, millions of ordinary people without creativity and genius follow the same quest and have deep spiritual experiences which they share, in their ‘way', with each other on the planet. I refer here to religions. Whether their neurobiological make-up is different or not we do not know. But I presume that for the majority of them, we cannot claim a difference in their spiritual quest, journey or experience, compared to Prince’s, even when his quest/journey carries the factor of possible innate genius. Prince’s spiritual development is just more visible and available for us to analyse.

Beethoven too was a genius but in 'Beethoven's Spiritual Development' which I read a long time ago (now online to read) Sullivan says 'Beethoven was a man who experienced all that we can experience, who suffered all that we can suffer. If, in the end, he seems to reach a state "above the battle" we also know that no man ever knew more bitterly what the battle was.' Sullivan goes on further to state ' OF BEETHOVEN'S RELIGIOUS BELIEFS WE KNOW VERY little except that they were not orthodox....in words, we may conclude, from his own remarks, that he believed in an ultimate, benign and intelligent Power, and that he believed that existence was planned and purposeful....

but his conviction was probably better expressed in the mystical sentences he was fond of copying down from Eastern literature. Such phrases as "I am that which is. I am all that was.....'

These seems to demonstrate that Beethoven too had his spiritual quest and that the external factors of him losing his hearing and his lack of family contributed to this quest. Beethoven also had battles against the dark 'his sister in-law' and became entangled in law suits (all external factors which affected his musical output. ) I find Beethoven particularly interesting because he left few words and his very gift was slowly taken away from him. I think the latter definitely influenced his music and the book goes on to compare the 9th and 5th Symphonies. Definitely worth a read. I have not read anything on Michaelangelo.

Even if we move beyond the limits of science, in terms of understanding the neurobiopsychological make-up of creative genius, and we consider an alternative realm of understanding personality, for example astrology, his star sign Gemini is also it would appear drawn toward the dichotomy of opposing planes e.g. spirituality / sexuality, dark / light etc.

There is perhaps a certain level of destiny i.e. born with talent, but without human nature (not genius) to guide it and navigate through external factors/ triggers (whether good or bad) genius will not be born, I think. As brain growth spurts in puberty I believe creative genius emerges and does not have to do solely with one’s astrological charting, but rather is developed and impacted by environmental facts, which already start through early childhood experience. Besides I think it is a common trait of human nature to be drawn to opposing planes of light and dark and most definitely Beethoven, although born in December, was also drawn to these. In fact Michael Jackson was another I think and he was born in August.

For further interpretation of Prince's astrological make-up, I would like to refer you to Dalia11's interesting 'reading' of his birthdate and the personal path someone born on 07.06.58 would likely experience in terms of hia/her strengths and weaknesses.

It certainly makes for a fascinating portrait of how certain transition points in Prince's psychospiritual journey may have either been "born" to happen or certainly likely to emerge, given particular triggers e.g. artistic genius at work and emerging coping strateguies through life's potential crises.

While I respect astronomy as a science, I am dubious of astrology and quite certain that if enough reserach was done on 500 individuals with the same birthday of creative individuals, that their psychospiritual journeys would be different. Firstly, because of contributing external factors and resulting personality development.

2) the astrological proclivity of any individual born on 07.06.58 towards heightened sensory experiences (especially in what might be termed spiritual growth planes),

Heightened sensory experience is definitely not limited to this birthdate so I'm afraid I disagree.

My point is, it is often easy for those of us to speculate with a retrospective hypothesis regarding the inner psyche of a person who has created a vast body of work, given that, in Prince's case, we have an expansive 30+ year catalogue of musical (and lyrical) recordings. However, such a retrospective account written by a 'knowing' audience does not, and cannot, account for what perhaps might be the simple psychospiritual journey for ANYONE born with a potential neurological / astrological propensity for...GOD.

I agree, it is easy to speculate. However, your opening speculative question was:

'Prince is no longer a strict JW...but he does believe in a higher consciousness and in one supreme being. Can you find the evidence within his music to support this evolution within his spiritual growth? What factors can you attribute to helping his growth?'

I found the thread of God in a handful of many lyrics and while different music might have been made at different times, I do believe that 'The highest function of music is to express the musician's experience and his organization of it.' (J.W.N Sullivan) To this extent, Prince's catalogue does tell a story of his life/growth/connection with life.

I attribute the growth to external factors which assisted in developing the spiritual journey.

It seems strange to say anyone could be born with a potential neurobiology for God. It would either be everyone or no-one, I do not beleive God would make a distinction. I also do not believe that astrological propensity is an influence either because it does not explain the psychospiritual journey of all the others on the planet who are not Gemini. Or of other creative genius artists with different chartings who followed similar paths to Prince. Whether expressed in music alone or another form of art.

And now SpiritOtter, I hope you will answer my questions in my fourth reply.

You losers need to accept the fact that Prince is a bigoted JW, and that's never going to change. Like all cowards, as he continues to age, he needs a good fairy-tale to explain away the harsh realities of the world and take him by the hand into the non-existent after-life. He's only going to get more insular and bigoted as time goes by, just like your dear granny blathering on about her dead religion, Prince will do the same until the only people left in the audience are the starry-eyed purple cultists lapping up every word of their Dear Leader.

Prince has no intellectual curiosity, zero sense of world history or the cosmos; if he did, he would be laughing and embarrassed by his actions of the past ten years, but he is, in fact, happily entrenched with the JWs and their bronze-age world view.

Update this thread when his colonized mind utters a curse, when he publicly rejects the bigotry and hatred of the JWs, when he stops palling around with his brain-washer, Larry Graham, when there's one shred of evidence that he is in fact, no longer just another mindless drone in the army of religion.

/thread

Wall said:

You losers need to accept the fact that Prince is a bigoted JW, and that's never going to change. Like all cowards, as he continues to age, he needs a good fairy-tale to explain away the harsh realities of the world and take him by the hand into the non-existent after-life. He's only going to get more insular and bigoted as time goes by, just like your dear granny blathering on about her dead religion, Prince will do the same until the only people left in the audience are the starry-eyed purple cultists lapping up every word of their Dear Leader.

Prince has no intellectual curiosity, zero sense of world history or the cosmos; if he did, he would be laughing and embarrassed by his actions of the past ten years, but he is, in fact, happily entrenched with the JWs and their bronze-age world view.

Update this thread when his colonized mind utters a curse, when he publicly rejects the bigotry and hatred of the JWs, when he stops palling around with his brain-washer, Larry Graham, when there's one shred of evidence that he is in fact, no longer just another mindless drone in the army of religion.

/thread

Hear Hear, the best post so far on this thread. Thank you for providing us with some common sense.

MikeA said:

I think Prince thinks he's a strict JW...

Wall said:

You losers need to accept the fact that Prince is a bigoted JW, and that's never going to change. Like all cowards, as he continues to age, he needs a good fairy-tale to explain away the harsh realities of the world and take him by the hand into the non-existent after-life. He's only going to get more insular and bigoted as time goes by, just like your dear granny blathering on about her dead religion, Prince will do the same until the only people left in the audience are the starry-eyed purple cultists lapping up every word of their Dear Leader.

Prince has no intellectual curiosity, zero sense of world history or the cosmos; if he did, he would be laughing and embarrassed by his actions of the past ten years, but he is, in fact, happily entrenched with the JWs and their bronze-age world view.

Update this thread when his colonized mind utters a curse, when he publicly rejects the bigotry and hatred of the JWs, when he stops palling around with his brain-washer, Larry Graham, when there's one shred of evidence that he is in fact, no longer just another mindless drone in the army of religion.

/thread

co-sign

toejam said:

I think Prince thinks he's a strict JW...

Exactly. As strict as they are, I can't see them putting up with his little high heeled makeup wearing ass.

I don't know what the fuck this thread is, but Prince sincerely wants to fuck the taste out of your mouth muthafucka.

toejam said:

I think Prince thinks he's a strict JW...

As I mentioned earlier, I believe that he "thinks..." he's one...LOL

danzakairos said:

MikeA said:

From his recent Australian Tour:

"So what I got baptized... I still like a fire between your thighs."

THAT is how deep Prince is in the JW faith. In other words, he uses it at his convenience, just like everything else he has ever done when it comes to religion. Read up on the way he still treated people who worked with him during his umpteen other spiritual "epiphanies".

Unfortunate...yes it is true

Hahahahaha....Did he really say that or is that a soundbite?? LOL

I would say in summary, as I mentioned earlier AGAIN..lol: "He thinks he is one, AND

As the years has gone by he's not as expressive about those beliefs, occasionally he says something of the JW's. But it seems as if he only quotes them when he wants to avoid conversations about anything personal..lol. In other words; as you said..."For His convenience"

It's almost like it's the pillar to fall on when confusion or intrusion sets place. Which I don't think is a wise choice. I am ALL for spirituality and an acknowledgement of it though. I don't see the reasons for calling anyone a 'Fool' because they recognize a spiritual origins or 'Supernatural'. That is why millions, indeed billions, in this world will never shrug off the supernatural no matter how high the naturalist raises their volume. Not because billions are fools "Intellectually flawed' but because plain intuitive certainty tells them that something with such spiritual and physical complexity just can not come from nothing. Climbing UP the ladder means nothing if it's against the wrong building though...

I am going to go out on the limb and say: THE PROBLEM MOST PEOPLE HAVE IS THAT HE IS A JEHOVAH'S WITNESS. (At least he thinks he is one..IMO)...When Prince held to a "Lovesexy/Adventist/Universal" type of world view, (Non Denominational - YET free to hold to a personal answer outside of fundamentals ) sure some people still thought it was insane, but it was never to the extent it is now. Orthodox Christianity, does not even recognize the 'Jehovah Witness's teachings' as they deny core fundamental values of Christianity. Such as the deity of Jesus, trinity, Justification, etc...BUT let's not go there. lol. I am just speaking on the behalf of how they are categorized as a cult. I think this is the main problem people have...

BUT, I also think; Prince just summarizes many of his beliefs in 'One Song'. He's not really holding to the 'TRUTH' from the 'Watchtower Society, and New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures' because if he did he would not mix it up the way he constantly does. He keeps saying 'We are in this together' (And indeed we are...But any look at the Watch Tower Society will tell you, they believe we are NOT in this together, Well unless you accept the 'TRUTH'...LOL)

AND who would blame him?? His experiences in life are not limited to the restrictions that are placed. He's always been a free man, sure he holds it down sometimes..But Prince seems incapable of being 'Controlled' maybe earlier he was..but that eventually faded..lol. IMO

ALSO...

We only know him from a distance, he has only revealed so much. But the more we 'Look' and 'Hear' from him we perceive our opinions on him. Because that's the only way we really can know him by what he says or what he has on. Unless of course we are afforded personal time with him, but that's impossible.We could judge him by his lyrics, and his past comments. We don't have much of anything to form of him.

He's a contradiction, like most artists are. IMO. We are even contradictions; so it's best just to leave him in his faith and reason. We can say what we dislike and what we 'Wish' to change; but at the end of the day...it won't matter to him or any of us..because we got our own stairs to climb..Our own 'ladder and perspective' of things.

Thanks Spirit, for this thread!

SpiritOtter said:

B67, What were your questions again? Excellent response, by the way, & well articulated. I agree almost entirely and without reserve. love, Spirit

Thanks SpiritOtter. I meant in my post that Beethoven 'lost the joy to fully experience his gift' through the loss of hearing, not 'he slowly lost his gift.'

My questions were:

Is he a lone wolf? I'm interested in your thoughts and description of this. Secondly, what music wise, if you felt Prince was no longer a strict JW, do you think would be coming?

EyeJester7 said:

danzakairos said:

MikeA said: Unfortunate...yes it is true

Hahahahaha....Did he really say that or is that a soundbite?? LOL

I would say in summary, as I mentioned earlier AGAIN..lol: "He thinks he is one, AND

As the years has gone by he's not as expressive about those beliefs, occasionally he says something of the JW's. But it seems as if he only quotes them when he wants to avoid conversations about anything personal..lol. In other words; as you said..."For His convenience"

Yes, he said it on the second night of the tour in Sydney during "How Come U Don't Call Me Anymore". 'So what I got baptized. I still like a fire between your thighs'.

As others have said here, he THINKS he is a strict JW but they would not go for the suggestive stuff he still does. Yes it is EXTREMELY watered down from the old days but lines like above and some of the stuff he has improvised during "Little Red Corvette" would NEVER fly with a strict JW. Hell, performing "Shhh" alone would not fly with a JW.

To Hell with Larry for pouncing on a man devastated by the loss of his baby and brainwashing Prince the way he did, but Prince is an adult and has to be held responsible for ALLOWING it to happen as well.

And Wall, agreed 100%. Great post.

toejam said:

I think Prince thinks he's a strict JW...

Not just that, he thinks everyone should be like him. The way he does things is the best way.