Contrary to what some believe, Prince has always shared the Christian message through his music. Obviously the man is huge believer himself and not just because he is a JW or because of all the 'love God' and 'all thanks and love to God' credits on his albums.

His faith has always been present in his music but this started to show very clearly with the Lord's prayer on Controversy, the apocalyptic theme of 1999, the preacher's sermon on Let's Go Crazy and the divine sacrifice of I Would Die 4 U. Two of his most succesful albums.

Followed up by the hopeful message of the Ladder, the road of the sinner on Temptation, the state of mankind on Sign of the Times and its suffering on the Cross.

Of course the entire LoveSexy album is littered with Christian references about the love and grace of God. Even Batman was subjected to it, thanks to the good vs evil theme of the movie.

But Prince also was ofen less blatant about his faith, for example with the backmasked message on Darling Nikki, or with lines such as "But I say it's only mountains and the sea
Love will conquer if u just believe" and "I often dream of heaven and I know that's Tracy there" on Sometimes it snows in April. Or "And we try to imagine what silence looks like" on If I was your Girlfriend. Or much of the Graffiti Bridge album.

One of the most interesting things for many fans about 'Christianity' in Prince's music is his battling between his love for God, women and temptation, sexual temptation specifically. Or his love for fame and money. The way he has tried to reconcile his love for God with his 'natural urges' is sometimes most intruiging.

Prince drove this theme up all the way untill 'Come', which he ended with the orgasm of his one time lover, that was recorded more than a decade before, not long before the 'Second Coming' of Controversy saw the light of day.

'Come' symbolised 'the death of Prince' and the Gold Experience the re-birth of . This wasn't just about a business dispute. And the latter wasn't all of a sudden a changed man. It was not like P was all of a sudden not 'dirty' anymore. But in hindsight 'Come' was indeed 'the dawning of a new spiritual revolution'.

It didn't take many years after Prince's emancipation that his spiritual direction and lyrical content also changed. Some would say that Prince grew up or others that the JW eventually got to him. But one could also say that a man never loses his sexual urges, nor his urge to love God. He may only learn how to deal with the both of them differently.

I think that is obviously happened. Sex after all is still present in Prince's music, but in a different way and just not as much as it used to be. His faith has grown too and so has his message about it. One could disagree with the direction it has taken, but that's up to him. What's most important is that it's good for him.

The downside of this naturally is, that many fans may not be willing or able to follow any longer. However, fans also grow older and the last 10 years have shown that Prince still has enough. He can still manage fine. Even when all his business and marriages end up in a mess, Prince is still going.

Whether that is thanks to his belief in God one could disagree on, but something tells me that for Prince himself this wouldnt be debate at all. After all, God has always been there in his music and he has always thanked him first and foremost.

[Edited 1/10/12 5:13am]

Yeah, he's always been a bit loopy, that's why we like him, innit.

NouveauDance said:

Yeah, he's always been a bit loopy, that's why we like him, innit.

I can only speak for myself but yes, this is one of the things I like a lot about him. Exceptions provided, I probably would have lost interest in him a long time ago, if he weren't this 'loopy'.

[Edited 1/9/12 10:40am]

And in a way, it's like he is trying to tell his own story, while at the same time trying to spread the good news too...

One thing I am therefore still not getting is why he isn't get his things together for a strong and decent internet presence.

It's not even that I want that so bad myself, but because I just can't fathom why he wouldn't want that himself.

As a musician it means sharing your art with as many people as possible. As a businessman it means money and free promotion. And as a witness it means a chance of spreading the good word.

So why not?

[Edited 1/9/12 10:57am]

His music has always had a theme pertaining to his desires for spritual things and desire for things of the flesh (sexual in nature).

And it's ongoing even today , Im sure.

thepope2the9s said:

His music has always had a theme pertaining to his desires for spritual things and desire for things of the flesh (sexual in nature).

And it's ongoing even today , Im sure.

Isn't that fascinating? I guess I am about the only one!

I used to wonder about the fans who aren't believers and how they felt about his more spiritual side. Some people said they just ignored it because it was good music. I feel the same way now since TRC.

His "battle" is not surprising and nor has it even been. I think a lot of us have gone through the same thing.

Vendetta1 said:

I used to wonder about the fans who aren't believers and how they felt about his more spiritual side. Some people said they just ignored it because it was good music. I feel the same way now since TRC.

You can never fully ignore it tho.

His "battle" is not surprising and nor has it even been. I think a lot of us have gone through the same thing.

The beauty of it is that a lot of have, but that not a lot of people can actually express it.

Prince can, to a great extent.

[Edited 1/9/12 16:09pm]

i've long stated that i'd LOVE to see him compile the "spiritually minded" prince songs. he understands that we are spritual beings and he doesn't dichomotize himself or "label" it when he does such songs. it'd be a great compilation with a couple new joints thrown in. my list might look like this:

Holy River

Elephants & Flowers

The Cross

Still Would Stand All Time

God

4 The Tears in Your Eyes

Anna Stesia

7

And God Created Woman

The Ladder

The Word

Love

Yeah, he's always been a bit of a Bible-basher unfortunately. One of the few blights in his music I feel. Ah well. I think it's not that uncommon a trait for artistic geniuses to live in their own little fantasy world. Prince's fantasy just happens to be his interpretation of the Bible. I call it "Princeworld" . Miles Davis, for example, was never a big God believer, but after reading his autobiography, it's clear that he lived in his own little fantasy world as well.

But I never let it bother me too much. Lyrics like "Love will conquer if u just believe", "There will be peace for those who love God aloud" etc. I'm sure in his own head he's being very specific about the God of the Bible, but I'm happy to hear it as a metaphor.

Vendetta1 said:

I used to wonder about the fans who aren't believers and how they felt about his more spiritual side. Some people said they just ignored it because it was good music.

I enjoy it, actually, as it's a reference I'm familiar with (as most Western listeners are, I'm sure), but he interacts with it in such a way that, at times, it can become almost unrecognisable from the intent of the original content; I guess I mean to say his interpretation of it is something, through the influence of the music, I can identify with! Well, how he worked with spirituality in the past, anyway.

^Exactly. I know that Harry Potter isn't true, but it doesn't stop me enjoying/recognising the metaphors/positive messages throughout his story. And that's the same way I feel about most of Prince's religious lyrics. It's only when he gets a little too specific that I start to cringe.


.

[Edited 1/9/12 20:55pm]

datdude said:

i've long stated that i'd LOVE to see him compile the "spiritually minded" prince songs. he understands that we are spritual beings and he doesn't dichomotize himself or "label" it when he does such songs. it'd be a great compilation with a couple new joints thrown in. my list might look like this:

Holy River

Elephants & Flowers

The Cross

Still Would Stand All Time

God

4 The Tears in Your Eyes

Anna Stesia

7

And God Created Woman

The Ladder

The Word

Love

Add "The Love We Make" and "Last December", and maybe "Love...Thy Will Be Done".

BoraBora said:

datdude said:

i've long stated that i'd LOVE to see him compile the "spiritually minded" prince songs. he understands that we are spritual beings and he doesn't dichomotize himself or "label" it when he does such songs. it'd be a great compilation with a couple new joints thrown in. my list might look like this:

Holy River

Elephants & Flowers

The Cross

Still Would Stand All Time

God

4 The Tears in Your Eyes

Anna Stesia

7

And God Created Woman

The Ladder

The Word

Love

Add "The Love We Make" and "Last December", and maybe "Love...Thy Will Be Done".

That list could go on and on really.

The above are songs that are obviously spiritual, some of are practically gospel songs. But there are so many more songs where it's not so obvious, yet also there.

jehovah witness is NOT Christian. Christians believe jesus was god incarnate on earth, jw's believe jesus was the son of god, similar to muslims. prince states 1+1+1=3, whereas christians believe 1+1+1=ONE. fundamentally different.

robertgeorgeakabob said:

jehovah witness is NOT Christian. Christians believe jesus was god incarnate on earth, jw's believe jesus was the son of god, similar to muslims. prince states 1+1+1=3, whereas christians believe 1+1+1=ONE. fundamentally different.

Jehovah's Witnesses are Christian. The song 1+1+1 = 3 is speaking about man, woman and God.

When I was an avid believer in God, I also believed Jesus was the son of God and I'm about as far from a Witness as you can get.

If Jesus and God are the same, why did Jesus ask God why He was forsaking Him?

anywho,

Good thread Tremolina. I am curious as to some of the songs you are talking about where a religious reference is more subtle.

Vendetta1 said:

I used to wonder about the fans who aren't believers and how they felt about his more spiritual side. Some people said they just ignored it because it was good music. I feel the same way now since TRC.

His "battle" is not surprising and nor has it even been. I think a lot of us have gone through the same thing.

I ignored the religious mumbo jumbo coming from him and just enjoyed the music.
It became cringe-worthy after he released TRC and in concert started asking the audience whether we are followers or leaders.

Vendetta1 said:

robertgeorgeakabob said:

jehovah witness is NOT Christian. Christians believe jesus was god incarnate on earth, jw's believe jesus was the son of god, similar to muslims. prince states 1+1+1=3, whereas christians believe 1+1+1=ONE. fundamentally different.

Jehovah's Witnesses are Christian. The song 1+1+1 = 3 is speaking about man, woman and God.

When I was an avid believer in God, I also believed Jesus was the son of God and I'm about as far from a Witness as you can get.

If Jesus and God are the same, why did Jesus ask God why He was forsaking Him?

anywho,

Good thread Tremolina. I am curious as to some of the songs you are talking about where a religious reference is more subtle.

the idea of the holy trinity is what defines christianity from other bible-based religions. witnesses denounce the holy trinity, as does the jewish faith which spawned the book in the first place. are jews christian? so i repeat, JW is not Christian, Prince is not a Christian. 1+1+1=3 is him refuting the idea of the holy trinity.

Vendetta1 said:

robertgeorgeakabob said:

jehovah witness is NOT Christian. Christians believe jesus was god incarnate on earth, jw's believe jesus was the son of god, similar to muslims. prince states 1+1+1=3, whereas christians believe 1+1+1=ONE. fundamentally different.

Jehovah's Witnesses are Christian. The song 1+1+1 = 3 is speaking about man, woman and God.

When I was an avid believer in God, I also believed Jesus was the son of God and I'm about as far from a Witness as you can get.

If Jesus and God are the same, why did Jesus ask God why He was forsaking Him?

anywho,

Good thread Tremolina. I am curious as to some of the songs you are talking about where a religious reference is more subtle.

this is something a witness would say, not a christian!!!!

MacDaddy said:

I ignored the religious mumbo jumbo coming from him and just enjoyed the music.
It became cringe-worthy after he released TRC and in concert started asking the audience whether we are followers or leaders.

It was cringe worthy back in '85 when in concert he would ask the audience "who ate of the apple 1st?" and had a dialog with God (while also doing the voice of God).

skywalker said:

MacDaddy said:

I ignored the religious mumbo jumbo coming from him and just enjoyed the music.
It became cringe-worthy after he released TRC and in concert started asking the audience whether we are followers or leaders.

It was cringe worthy back in '85 when in concert he would ask the audience "who ate of the apple 1st?" and had a dialog with God (while also doing the voice of God).

I forgot about that. You're right.

robertgeorgeakabob said:

Vendetta1 said:

Jehovah's Witnesses are Christian. The song 1+1+1 = 3 is speaking about man, woman and God.

When I was an avid believer in God, I also believed Jesus was the son of God and I'm about as far from a Witness as you can get.

If Jesus and God are the same, why did Jesus ask God why He was forsaking Him?

anywho,

Good thread Tremolina. I am curious as to some of the songs you are talking about where a religious reference is more subtle.

this is something a witness would say, not a christian!!!!

Sorry but you do not get to define anything for me. Nor can you tell me that JWs are not Christian when I KNOW they are.

The problem I have with religion is that you can ask 50 people the same question about it and get 50 different answers. Your definition is different than mine. Let's leave it at that because it is obvious you have no idea what you are talking about.

kenkamken said:

Church Of The Subgenius, aka Church Of Bob, is more Christian than JW

Well that's up to you guys to take up with them. If someone calls themselves Christian, I don't think it's up to anyone else to say they aren't.

Sorry for sidetracking your thread, Tremolina.

I love the dark light struggle in Prince's music

I've checked this out myself too, and I don't think it was much of a 'struggle' played out on vinyl and stage until Purple Rain.

For most of his 1980's albums the 'spiritual' theme wasn't that prominate as much as I thought.

From 4 U - Prince -Dirty Mind -Controversy -1999 nothing really talks about spiritual religious ideals.

I see the Our Father prayer in the song Controversy as something to start controversy not really something that referenced his actual beliefs. That kind of transgressive thing was a part of the New Wave expression. Prince in the bathroom with Dez half nekked(pictures taken by Lisa)

from Purple Rain on, it was pretty scattered I Would Die 4 U being romantic/salvation reference almost heard in Purple Rain, the backward message after Darling Nikki(that transgressive New Wave thing) which is what 'satanists were known to do. I always thought the opening of Let's Go Crazy was more of a wedding or funeral piece than an actual church sermon feel.

God the Dance Electric

God the Love theme

the 1999 - Purple Rain music for me had a stronger Apocolyptic message than a "Christian" even though the Lord returning is 1/2 of that, the other 1/2 is the threat of nuclear war that filled our lives during those times

Prince was very good then with presenting a type of utopia via Uptown Erotic City & Paisley Park,

Parade was devoid of that spiritual/sexual conflict

he was called in an album review 4 Controversy A PUNK PROPHET OF SEXUAL ANARCHY

Our Father, who art in heaven, hallowed be Thy name
Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven
Give us this day our daily bread and forgive us our trespasses
As we forgive those who trespass against us
Lead us not into temptation but deliver us from evil
For Thine is the kingdom and the power and the glory forever and ever

Vendetta1 said:

I used to wonder about the fans who aren't believers and how they felt about his more spiritual side. Some people said they just ignored it because it was good music. I feel the same way now since TRC.

His "battle" is not surprising and nor has it even been. I think a lot of us have gone through the same thing.

I'm not particularly religious, but I've always found people's beliefs fascinating, as I do Prince's. I like his religious music if it's well thought out, and I find some of the stuff he says in interviews interesting as well. I wouldn't want him to be an atheist, because obviously, religion has inspired many of his best songs. Even the big 3 (Purple Rain, When Doves Cry, Let's Go Crazy) have all been said to have some level of religious influence.

MacDaddy said:

skywalker said:

It was cringe worthy back in '85 when in concert he would ask the audience "who ate of the apple 1st?" and had a dialog with God (while also doing the voice of God).

I forgot about that. You're right.

Yes good point. Prince was already getting all biblical on people back then in concert too.

But he made it all about sexual temptation and turned it into a show.

The preaching during Lovesexy concerts was pretty out there too.

TRC was of a different, more controversial level and with a different style and spirit.