TheFreakerFantastic said:

^ Rdhull...do u remember how much Prince made out of CB set?? Even though the sales weren't massive he made loads as he financed most of it himself...

Yeah that was because he sold CB directly to his customers. No middlemen taking any huge cuts.

But moreover, as with selling box sets, the music was already paid and produced for = lower costs.

BUT: as we already saw on that set: not so much old vault material on it but a lot of "new" outtakes, remixes and some live stuff.

PLUS: the vault material that did get on it, lacked a suspiciously great amount of the work of associated artists (such as W&L and Eric Leeds for example)

[Edited 12/5/11 9:29am]

Well hopefully he will do it within his lifetime....

TheFreakerFantastic said:

^ Rdhull...do u remember how much Prince made out of CB set?? Even though the sales weren't massive he made loads as he financed most of it himself...

How many were sold? How much did he actually make? I dont think it was much. Even though he got all profits and there was no middle man, it doesnt seem like the suyccess financially that people think he want(ed)s. He probably made less than a mill on CB overall.

But again, remasters and box sets shouldn't be profit driven. And shouldn't be handled in house by 'heavensenthelpers,' fans who are willing to do work for free in art direction etc. These projects need a record company (yes, even one such as Warn A Brotha) that have a proper marketing department, art directors, etc etc etc. No more CB in house fiascos. I mean his music is his life..thats what he is know for..its his legend..so why not sanctify it in a proper and adequate manner? Not use profit margin as a bargaining tool to have these projects done. Keeping it on a profit driven base is only going to screw it for the fans as we await a specific time and contract where everything "fits" which is bs. Prince, do it for the artistic/legacy reasons.

rdhull said:

Tremolina said:

again: box sets require much less investment than regular releases. This means that if you play it smart, you could make more on a box set selling less, than on a ordinary release selling more.

it doesnt matter even if the investment was free..what is the most he wll make? One millionNow that is a lot ot the ordinary joe but to HIM? PLEASE.

It may seem to us like these would be big sellers (Prince remasters/box sets) but I hardly think many fans outside of those who post here on the org are going to go out and get them.

This is why I stated that he should still do them but for legacy and artistic reasons. To put a profit tag on as a reason is just going to screw us the fans as we will be waiting forever for him or a company to wait until the 12th of never for it seem prime profit time to finally get busy with boxset projects. As well as taint musical works as soley profit driven as well.

Of course it matters whether the investment is "free".

The way you are talking about this topic is as if you think Prince is some long gone nobody, who only very few people are still interested in. But I tell you this: if the man can still sell out shows around the world, still attracting potentially millions of people globally, he can also still sell a lot of CD's/downloads too. He just needs to play it smart and do it the right way.

But, suppose you are correct and it's only people who would bother to check out this site, who would also bother to buy a box set. That's something like 30.000 max? (IIRC that is about the most visitors this site has ever had at one time). Throw in a couple of more people who would not check out this site, but who find out through other media and still buy a box set. Maybe 20.000 more = 50.000 people max. With a bit of decent global marketing WAY more in reality I think but okay, for the sake of your argument...

Now presume that Prince will own all the rights to For You in 2013, which is likely because he wrote, arranged, performed and produced that entire album by himself and he wants to get all his rights back. Then suppose that once he does, he decides to release a box set of a remastered, unedited For You album, including a disc of outtakes/vault material and a disc of live material. He has claimed to have remastered all his albums, so that is also paid for already.

Then do a little calculation, estimating what the MINIMUM is that Prince could make. He sells this 3 CD box set for $35 on Amazon and such sites and for $25 on Itunes and other downloadsites, including his own. These are reasonable prices for a 3 CD set, so they could price it a little higher too or lower after 6 months or so, depending on the media and its public.

Then suppose ONLY about 50.000 people - worldwide - decide to buy this set (again with some decent global marketing I think it could be way more). Let's say about half of them or 25.000 buy downloads and 25.000 the CD's. This would equal a gross revenue of $875.000 + $625.000 = $ 1.500.000. Itunes then takes a third of the download revenues and others will take their cut too, but not thát much. Suppose therefore that in total, no more than about one third of the gross revenues goes to third parties for production and distribution costs.

This at least, would give Prince a $ 1 million gross revenue on For You alone and that's presuming no more than 50.000 people would buy.

Imagine then also that MORE than 50.000 people would buy. When something in the order of 75.000 people ultimately do, we are talking about a gross revenue of about $ 2.225.000 and about $ 1.5 million for Prince himself. Again: only on a box set of For You. And with investing much less in it than on its original release.

Picture this: every year that goes by, Prince gets more and more of his copyrights back. So every year that goes by, he can RE-exploit his work this way. However this time HE cannot just make sure that his legacy is safe and respected, he can also make the most on it, instead of WB or any other major company. Tables turned.

Add in 'Prince', 'Dirty Mind' and 'Controversy' and we are probably talking a LOT more sales than just the 50.000 'For You' would have. With the right marketing perhabs more than 100.000 each?

What that could ultimately mean, is something like AT LEAST $ 5 or 6 million. And then rd, we aren't even talking about the classics 1999, Purple Rain and Sign of the Times....

With the right timing and market approach, those albums could still have amazing sales, so I believe Prince would really be a fool not to try and do something like this.

[Edited 12/5/11 11:56am]

Let's not be so quick to throw dirt on the purple grave.

I think Prince still has an excellent opportunity to capitalize on his Vault, though he'll need to adopt some radically different approaches to how the music is presented and distributed. As fans we'd love to see an official release of the Work It set but that's simply not commercially viable. Instead he could release a handful of tracks to iTunes to promote a tangible release much like the upcoming "Some Girls" re-release, or perhaps do vanity pressings so that there's less risk of a massive overstock.

Bottom line is he should allow a professional media marketing group to draft and execute a long-term promotional and release strategy that will be beneficial to him, his legacy and his extended fan base. Of course doing so will mean giving up a lot of control which unfortunately I doubt he's willing to do at this time...

alphachannel said:

Bottom line is he should allow a professional media marketing group to draft and execute a long-term promotional and release strategy

That's what I said.

alphachannel said:

Bottom line is he should allow a professional media marketing group to draft and execute a long-term promotional and release strategy that will be beneficial to him, his legacy and his extended fan base. Of course doing so will mean giving up a lot of control which unfortunately I doubt he's willing to do at this time...

He has UMG to do that.

He doesn't have to give up a lot of control but can still own everything.

As long as he agrees with what others will be doing, that can work.

But that's the question and money/profits are a different issue too.

If he wants UMG to do more for him, they will naturally expect more in return.

[Edited 12/5/11 10:28am]

rdhull said:

alphachannel said:

Bottom line is he should allow a professional media marketing group to draft and execute a long-term promotional and release strategy

That's what I said.

If you would talk to that company, they would probably instantly decide not do it.

rdhull said:

Prince, do it for the artistic/legacy reasons.

You can never expect him to do something big like this purely for artistic/legacy reasons alone. There has to be a way there to make some money from it too. I think there truly still is.

I really learned a lot by reading this post!

THANKS FOR THE INFORMATION GUYS!

Tremolina said:

alphachannel said:

Bottom line is he should allow a professional media marketing group to draft and execute a long-term promotional and release strategy that will be beneficial to him, his legacy and his extended fan base. Of course doing so will mean giving up a lot of control which unfortunately I doubt he's willing to do at this time...

He has UMG to do that.

He doesn't have to give up a lot of control but can still own everything.

As long as he agrees with what others will be doing, that can work.

But that's the question and money/profits are a different issue too.

If he wants UMG to do more for him, they will naturally expect more in return.

[Edited 12/5/11 10:28am]

Sorry I parroted your comment Tremolina -- no disrepect meant...

I definitely agree about UMG, but I fear UMG would limit the strategy to a typical legacy release project which I doubt he'd agree to (nor do I think it would be that profitable -- just an opinion).

Instead I'd like to see him employ a true marketing group that will strategize beyond repackaging the WB albums. For instance if they (the marketing group) outlined a three or four year plan that integrated the new releases, vault/legacy material releases, key appearances and non-music releases, he could generate a public interest that includes, new fans, fringe fan and fanatics like us. But to do this correctly he'd need to allow someone to aggressively guide and market him in a way he hasn't experienced since probably the pre For You era.

I think it's possible to embrace the legacy while creating new songs plus it may be best for him to just focus on music while the marketers do what they're skilled at doing; but that's the control I think he's reluctant to hand over. He's had some good ideas but the web design, distribution and single selection processes he's used since probably Purple Rain haven't been blockbusters.

Would I like a shot at this? Simultaneously Hell yes and never in a million years...

rdhull said:

TheFreakerFantastic said:

^ Rdhull...do u remember how much Prince made out of CB set?? Even though the sales weren't massive he made loads as he financed most of it himself...

How many were sold? How much did he actually make? I dont think it was much. Even though he got all profits and there was no middle man, it doesnt seem like the suyccess financially that people think he want(ed)s. He probably made less than a mill on CB overall.

But again, remasters and box sets shouldn't be profit driven. And shouldn't be handled in house by 'heavensenthelpers,' fans who are willing to do work for free in art direction etc. These projects need a record company (yes, even one such as Warn A Brotha) that have a proper marketing department, art directors, etc etc etc. No more CB in house fiascos. I mean his music is his life..thats what he is know for..its his legend..so why not sanctify it in a proper and adequate manner? Not use profit margin as a bargaining tool to have these projects done. Keeping it on a profit driven base is only going to screw it for the fans as we await a specific time and contract where everything "fits" which is bs. Prince, do it for the artistic/legacy reasons.

If he uses the net (!) then it wouldn't really cost him anything...

rdhull said:

alphachannel said:

Bottom line is he should allow a professional media marketing group to draft and execute a long-term promotional and release strategy

That's what I said.

I agree with you both-but it should co-inside with a tour. To cross promote each other and he could sell them direct to the fan base at concerts and perhaps 1 alternative business (BestBuy/Target/Amazon).

dont hold your breathe..............he aint gonna release a damn note. Not anytime soon.

I really dont want him too, look what he did to extralovable.... horrible, just damn horrible

^ Yes but we want it released BEFORE he gets that far!!

TheFreakerFantastic said:

rdhull said:

How many were sold? How much did he actually make? I dont think it was much. Even though he got all profits and there was no middle man, it doesnt seem like the suyccess financially that people think he want(ed)s. He probably made less than a mill on CB overall.

But again, remasters and box sets shouldn't be profit driven. And shouldn't be handled in house by 'heavensenthelpers,' fans who are willing to do work for free in art direction etc. These projects need a record company (yes, even one such as Warn A Brotha) that have a proper marketing department, art directors, etc etc etc. No more CB in house fiascos. I mean his music is his life..thats what he is know for..its his legend..so why not sanctify it in a proper and adequate manner? Not use profit margin as a bargaining tool to have these projects done. Keeping it on a profit driven base is only going to screw it for the fans as we await a specific time and contract where everything "fits" which is bs. Prince, do it for the artistic/legacy reasons.

If he uses the net (!) then it wouldn't really cost him anything...

"We tried that before...remember?"

Nah..not net only steelo this time. Tangible..in stores..iTunes..the who gamut is needed this time. No more brilliant ideas. Just a regrular tried and true mainstream dispersion method.

kewlschool said:

rdhull said:

That's what I said.

I agree with you both-but it should co-inside with a tour. To cross promote each other and he could sell them direct to the fan base at concerts and perhaps 1 alternative business (BestBuy/Target/Amazon).

Not worried about a tour. Not worried about cross promotion. Just get them done and out there. It's a legacy issue.

TheFreakerFantastic said:

^ Yes but we want it released BEFORE he gets that far!!

keep dreamin