thebanishedone said:

whendovescry2000 said:

Again - I am not underestimating Prince's ability to play an instrument. I am saying that it isn't him playing drums on a few of his exhaulted creations.

Prince didn't play drums only when he didn't want to.

The first drum playing on a Prince record containg other drummer then him is on the album Purple Rain.

Prince have very characteristic way of play kick drum,snare drum ,when you hear it you just know it's him.

Again you are using recordings after the eponymous Prince album. Of course in time his drumming would get better.

whendovescry2000 said:

hhhhdmt said:

Jimmy Jam did praise Prince's drumming, in a recent interview. John Blacwell has praised it too. As far as allowing drums to be more prominent, not necessarily. There are several songs in Prince's work where he could have played a guitar solo but choose not to do so (America is a good example of this). Prince may have an oversized ego ("i got so many hits" lol) but he has a habit of not overplayinhg. Heck Prince can play pretty good bass solos but you dont hear them too often in his work.

"...There are several songs in Prine's work where he could have played a guitar solo but chose not to." Again, you are drawing your examples from his latter work. Please, just think about the first and second albums. Remove all following from your mind albums, songs and live performances as well as his work with the Time. With only the first and second albums as your gauge - you really can't say "HEY THAT"S PRINCE Playing!" can you?

yes i absolutely can. That is Prince on Bambi, it sounds like him. And i wasnt drawing examples on later work, i was trying to say that he has always had a habit (throughout his carrear) of not overplaying. This was true for 20 year old Prince and its still true for a 53 year old Prince.

whendovescry2000 said:

thebanishedone said:

I discussed with Bobby and i told you what he said.

So it's Prince on Bambi.

Man Prince is not Billy Cobham but he is very good and he evolved on drums.

Listen to Glass Cutter,that is a serious drumming and it's Prince.

And you can hear a Blackwell influence on it.

No problem but his interview (Bobby Z.) is no different that you speaking to him. That's what he said in the interview. If he actually saw Prince playing drums for said tracks (not just Bambi) then I could say okay I believe you. But this is the same camp that tried to convince us there was a Jamie Starr. That each of the members of the Time played/composed a song on their first album.

Man what are we talking about?

do you know how good Prince is as a drummer???

Prince is one of the rare world drummers who play in the studio without a click track.

And look at how tight his records sound.

Prince have killer timing.Do you know what that means for a drummer???

Bambi studio version contains very basic drumming in standard 4/4 pattern and

much less competent drummer could have played it.

I don't know what you hear on it so spectacular.

Go listen to Glass Cutter or the first Madhouse album to hear how flexibile drummer is Prince.

Do you know which instrument Prince played when he jammed with Miles Davis? Drums man

whendovescry2000 said:

hhhhdmt said:

A 20 year old musician who had practiced for 7 years. And he wasnt an ordinary 20 year old, but a musicial genius. Drums may not be his main instrument but even if he practiced, lets say 4-5 hours on the drums every week, he would have well over a thousand hours of practice and that is more than enough to play Bambi. I respect your opinion but you are underestimating his drumming, a writer for a major drum magazine once said that it was hard to differentiate between Prince's drumming and John Blackwells. Now Prince isnt as good on drums as John Blackwell but he is more than capable.

So when did he practice guitar or bass or piano? People seem to forget genius or not, Prince wasn't the only talent in Minneapolis. It's like no one can even conceive anyone else having any talent near Prince's level. And, it's not that I'm underestimating Prince's drumming ability, the writer you reference is making the comparission to Prince NOW, not Prince then. Can Prince play drums? Yes he can. Could he play the drums for Bambi? Yes he can. What I'm saying is after listening to Bambi consecutively, I do not believe that it's Prince playing the drums for that track. We will never know, but until David Z. told the story behind "Kiss" all of us would have argued against the world that Prince did everything on "Kiss".

I dont know his exact practice routine, but from what i have read, he seemed to spend alot of time practicing different instruments. I dont know why you find it hard to believe that a drummer of 7 years could play Bambi. And ofcourse there are musicians who are as talented as prince, and some arguably more so. But those kind of musicians are rare.

First I greatly appreciated everyone responding to this thread. I truly thank you.

I wish to make this perfectly clear because this continue to be the response of some. I am aware of how talented, gifted Prince is. I have seen him play drums live at several after shows. I am not saying - - let me repeat this I am not saying nor have i stated that Prince can't play drums. So please cease with the responses directing me to his later recordings or snide remakes such as "...guess what instrument he played with Miles davis?"

Is it a simple pattern 4/4 yes. But the sound I am hearing does sound like Prince. But even if I make any arguement that it's not. No one here would even consider it being anyone else playing but Prince. that is what's so amazing. It's not him playing - I am convinced. And as I said before we will never ever know. He (Prince) released Kiss - it's listed as being by Prince - but we all know the truth. Ultimatley it is very possible that Morris or someone else played drums. That you cannot refute because again you don't know. Bobby Z. only knows what Prince told him. He wasn't with him 24/7 during these recordings. And with Morris day being as good as a drummer that EVERYONE says he is - it is still possible that he (Day) would play on tracks for Prince and not take credit.

wally1970 said:

Morris played drums on Lets Work

Thank you.

thebanishedone said:

Man what are we talking about?

do you know how good Prince is as a drummer???

Prince is one of the rare world drummers who play in the studio without a click track.

And look at how tight his records sound.

Prince have killer timing.Do you know what that means for a drummer???

Bambi studio version contains very basic drumming in standard 4/4 pattern and

much less competent drummer could have played it.

I don't know what you hear on it so spectacular.

Go listen to Glass Cutter or the first Madhouse album to hear how flexibile drummer is Prince.

Do you know which instrument Prince played when he jammed with Miles Davis? Drums man

Where you even born when Prince for you orthe self-titled Prince came out?

whendovescry2000 said:

Where you even born when Prince for you orthe self-titled Prince came out?

I wAS born the night Prince held Controversy tour concert in New Orleans .

Man i asked Bobby abou 2000celebration incident and i asked him about drumming on Prince's records.

Bobby Z said that he didn't play on official records until 1984 Purple Rain.

I asked him about drums on Bambi also and Bobby Z said it was all Prince .

So you can talk whatever .

I'm also a musician and i know Prince sound and style on every instrument. Prince have specific bass and snare kick.

the only time i was confused was it Prince is his bass solo

on 2nighs united 2 west compton.

i thought it was Levi,because of the fluency,jazzy solo and playing it with a pick,but it was played by Prince

[Edited 11/20/11 23:05pm]

whendovescry2000 said:

First I greatly appreciated everyone responding to this thread. I truly thank you.

I wish to make this perfectly clear because this continue to be the response of some. I am aware of how talented, gifted Prince is. I have seen him play drums live at several after shows. I am not saying - - let me repeat this I am not saying nor have i stated that Prince can't play drums. So please cease with the responses directing me to his later recordings or snide remakes such as "...guess what instrument he played with Miles davis?"

Is it a simple pattern 4/4 yes. But the sound I am hearing does sound like Prince. But even if I make any arguement that it's not. No one here would even consider it being anyone else playing but Prince. that is what's so amazing. It's not him playing - I am convinced. And as I said before we will never ever know. He (Prince) released Kiss - it's listed as being by Prince - but we all know the truth. Ultimatley it is very possible that Morris or someone else played drums. That you cannot refute because again you don't know. Bobby Z. only knows what Prince told him. He wasn't with him 24/7 during these recordings. And with Morris day being as good as a drummer that EVERYONE says he is - it is still possible that he (Day) would play on tracks for Prince and not take credit.

Hmm - so, you're going to raise the point and ask the question, but when every single person disagrees with you, even quoting from Prince's own band members, you're just going to ignore everyone and say, "well, I still think I'm right".

You're making this a pointless discussion. It IS Prince playing on Bambi and you have NOTHING to prove it otherwise. People have given far more evidence here than you have and the opinions are also coming from people who are musicians themselves. You're not a musician, neither have you ever been anything connected to Prince, so perhaps you should stop flogging this dead horse?

Furthermore, you keep citing Kiss as an example, where Kiss's arrangement WAS correctly credited on Parade to David Z, so that's a moot point.

Prince played drums on his first two albums - period!

Prince is playing drums on the entire "Prince" album. The freaking engineer who worked with Prince on that record, (and ONLY that record) said Pricne played all the instruments and that he was most impressed with his drumming. Specifically, he claimed Prince was one of the most amazing "pocket" drummers he'd ever worked with.

It came from a person who worked with and knew Prince for a short time in a professional capacity only and he engineered the damned record, so he set-up the instruments, mic'd them and ran the tape machine while Prince was playing. End of discussion.

whendovescry2000 said:

plymouthavenuenorth said:

Even though Prince was tight with Morris in high school, Morris was not around during the first two albums. He came back into the picture right around the time of Dirty Mind. The engineers who worked on those two albums (Steve Fontano and Gary Brandt) said it was all Prince on drums, but there was one drummer around at the time - Bobby Z, who was credited as a "heaven sent helper" on the 2nd album.

Morris has a distinctive style, especially with his fills, and I don't hear that on the first two albums. I was listening to Irresistable B**ch recently and it hit me - there is no question that the drums on the first half of the song are Prince and the second half are done by Morris - the giveaway is the way Morris does his fills (which you can easily check out on the 2nd Time album on songs like The Walk). Someone mentioned that on the org once, but when I heard that recently it was very obvious.

What makes me question though is the drumming style found on Bambi. I note your comment of "Heaven Sent Helper" as credited on the sleeve, but with the entire Jamie Starr myth is it not possible that Morris "not being there" could also be a myth. I read where Bobby Z. stated that he would play a basic pattern and Prince would re-record the drums after he (Prince) had completed the track. Is it not possible that was Morris. Again, Bambi's drum style is incredible (for a 20 year old kid). And you really don't hear that syle again for several albums. Bobby Z. isn't that good. And everyone praises Morris Day's drumming including Prince.

Bobby Z is seriously good enough to have translated what we heard on the album to live.

He may not do the frills like Morris but the man is good and diverse

Check out his live stuff, the man can play some drum good

Bambi is seriously not that hard of a song for Bobby Z to play

Also Bobby Z was the drummer for 94 East

hhhhdmt said:

whendovescry2000 said:

"...There are several songs in Prine's work where he could have played a guitar solo but chose not to." Again, you are drawing your examples from his latter work. Please, just think about the first and second albums. Remove all following from your mind albums, songs and live performances as well as his work with the Time. With only the first and second albums as your gauge - you really can't say "HEY THAT"S PRINCE Playing!" can you?

yes i absolutely can. That is Prince on Bambi, it sounds like him. And i wasnt drawing examples on later work, i was trying to say that he has always had a habit (throughout his carrear) of not overplaying. This was true for 20 year old Prince and its still true for a 53 year old Prince.

I've always love the simple yet creative beats on Prince's earlier albums

I never get tired of hear the same drumming thru the whole song because the style is different and the music surrounding it just makes it so yummy

Songs like Lady Cab Driver

I never cared for a whole lot of showey drumming on Prince songs.

songs like Tamborine & Everywhere are exempt though

thebanishedone said:

Nobody questions bobby"s skill in fact,bobby is very underrated drummer.listen to his drumming skills on lorin park sessions.amazing jaa drumming for a kid bobby was at the time. Drumming on studio bambi is very simple and prince show cased much better playing on some other songs

whendovescry2000 said:

And you really don't hear that syle again for several albums. Bobby Z. isn't that good. And everyone praises Morris Day's drumming including Prince.

its hard to know what prince really did or did not play on .. he is totally capable of coming up with his own parts as well as copying his friends drumming style or allowing his drummer to record parts that prince would later redub his own drumming over

what we do know for a fact is that prince and wb care far more for the image of prince as a one man band than they do about giving proper credit or allowing other members of the band to have any of the spotlight. prince was working with other musicians all along and its totally possible that they ended up on tracks uncredited

the answer is Yes .. its possible .. nobody here has proven otherwise .. the evidence shows a consistant lack of credit where due .. so it's definately possible ..

the princaholics will shoot you down for even bringing it up .. get used to it around here

Prince played drums on the first three albums like he did with most instrumentation. A change started occurring during Controversy though.

Actually looking at the Original 7ven DVD , Morris says he was hanging around Prince alot at the time of For You and the Prince album . But if he wasn't playing on those albums, at least we have hope for something else Morris said on the DVD about around that same time Prince hired Morris to video tape his shows. So there may be some even earlier video footage , such as the first performance from the original Revolution in 1978 -79 when Warners told them they weren't ready , Some Prince album performances and The 1980 Rick James Tour that featured Prince ( I loved how they sounded, real Raw & Tight !!! )

^ Maybe Morris was just hanging out in 1978... Bottom line was he didn't work with Prince (like that at least) again until 1981. And even then there was only brief times they did work together ("Oh Baby" from 1979).

I don't even count that brief period where they played in the same band (Grand Central from way back in 1974) because neither of them were sure where their careers were headed though they were both ambitious, Prince more so.

Until then I'm gonna believe Prince was the main drummer behind his first three albums.

OldFriends4Sale said:

thebanishedone said:

Nobody questions bobby"s skill in fact,bobby is very underrated drummer.listen to his drumming skills on lorin park sessions.amazing jaa drumming for a kid bobby was at the time. Drumming on studio bambi is very simple and prince show cased much better playing on some other songs

And you really don't hear that syle again for several albums. Bobby Z. isn't that good. And everyone praises Morris Day's drumming including Prince.

Oldfriends you are my dear friend from the org and you did many nice things for me over the years

but i must be objective and strongly disagree.

BOBBY Z IS THAT GOOD.-Bobby is no Blackwell but he was much better drummer then people give him credit for.

It was not Bobby's fault that he played with Prince in the

height of new wave.

New Wave drums are very simple and not only that beside making his drum style more simple

Bobby had to adapt to a drummers worst enemy at the time :Linn L1.

There are recorded proofs of how good Bobby was as a drummer

example 1:Lorin Park sessions recorded in the late 70's floating on the net.

BobbY played very nice jazz,jazz fusion style drums there and he was a kid.

Atlanta 1980 Rick James support.

Listen to that gig.

Prince's sound was much more musician oriented there.Arangments were more complex,lots of unis lines,great drum breaks.

well after this tour Prince stripped down

his sound a simplified the things.

He simplified the way Bobby plays drums.

Music become more new wave and new wave is a post punk sound,punk and post punk were not about great musicianship,it was all about energy.

So it makes me sad people don't know how underrated Bobby is on drums.

Bobby Z came at a weird time in Prince's development so yeah I wouldn't go that far to say "oh he wasn't that good..."

Timmy84 said:

Bobby Z came at a weird time in Prince's development so yeah I wouldn't go that far to say "oh he wasn't that good..."

I wouldn't say a weird time in Prince's development .

It was a time of big changes in popular music.

Virtuosity of the 60's and up to mid 70's was out of fashion and the current sound was New Wave.

Prince went new wave,Cameo,Donna Summer,Sister Sledge,even artists like the Village People.

New Wave drum sound always relied on simplicity .

thebanishedone said:

Timmy84 said:

Bobby Z came at a weird time in Prince's development so yeah I wouldn't go that far to say "oh he wasn't that good..."

I wouldn't say a weird time in Prince's development .

It was a time of big changes in popular music.

Virtuosity of the 60's and up to mid 70's was out of fashion and the current sound was New Wave.

Prince went new wave,Cameo,Donna Summer,Sister Sledge,even artists like the Village People.

New Wave drum sound always relied on simplicity .

Weird was all I can come up with lol I love the New Wave style of drumming.

TrevorAyer said:

its hard to know what prince really did or did not play on .. he is totally capable of coming up with his own parts as well as copying his friends drumming style or allowing his drummer to record parts that prince would later redub his own drumming over

what we do know for a fact is that prince and wb care far more for the image of prince as a one man band than they do about giving proper credit or allowing other members of the band to have any of the spotlight. prince was working with other musicians all along and its totally possible that they ended up on tracks uncredited

the answer is Yes .. its possible .. nobody here has proven otherwise .. the evidence shows a consistant lack of credit where due .. so it's definately possible ..

the princaholics will shoot you down for even bringing it up .. get used to it around here

they were a backing band. They were not supposed to have the spotlight. Contrary to your insistence, they were not an actual band like a Deep Purple or Led Zeppelin but a backing band.(and none of the band members in the revolution were anywhere near Prince's talent, despite the revolution fanboys insisting so) People who are claiming that Morris played these drum parts need to prove it, otherwise it will be accepted that Prince played those parts.

[Edited 11/23/11 0:04am]

Mindflux said:

This is no way proves that Morris is playing on IB. Its a little difficult to call - Prince was entirely capable of playing the drum track on IB, he's done many that are similar. Also, the long drum-fill in IB is very similar to the same long drum-fill on Crystal Ball, which we know to be Prince.

Crystal Ball is Sheila E. on drums. Her fills usually sound different than Morris' style - they're faster and less "relaxed" sounding than his. She has crazy chops, and he just has that feel that's all his own (though his main influence is David Garibaldi of Tower of Power).

plymouthavenuenorth said:

Mindflux said:

This is no way proves that Morris is playing on IB. Its a little difficult to call - Prince was entirely capable of playing the drum track on IB, he's done many that are similar. Also, the long drum-fill in IB is very similar to the same long drum-fill on Crystal Ball, which we know to be Prince.

Crystal Ball is Sheila E. on drums. Her fills usually sound different than Morris' style - they're faster and less "relaxed" sounding than his. She has crazy chops, and he just has that feel that's all his own (though his main influence is David Garibaldi of Tower of Power).

Prince is playing on crystal ball

Timmy84 said:

Prince played drums on the first three albums like he did with most instrumentation. A change started occurring during Controversy though.

Actually the band started doing work on the Dirty Mind album

at that time Lisa Coleman said he would have the musicians come over and do their part, he would add something to it... but like Dr Fink did synth on the title track and Head Lisa did vocal parts and instrumental parts. Those are just 2 I can site off head

thebanishedone said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

And you really don't hear that syle again for several albums. Bobby Z. isn't that good. And everyone praises Morris Day's drumming including Prince.

Oldfriends you are my dear friend from the org and you did many nice things for me over the years

but i must be objective and strongly disagree.

BOBBY Z IS THAT GOOD.-Bobby is no Blackwell but he was much better drummer then people give him credit for.

It was not Bobby's fault that he played with Prince in the

height of new wave.

New Wave drums are very simple and not only that beside making his drum style more simple

Bobby had to adapt to a drummers worst enemy at the time :Linn L1.

There are recorded proofs of how good Bobby was as a drummer

example 1:Lorin Park sessions recorded in the late 70's floating on the net.

BobbY played very nice jazz,jazz fusion style drums there and he was a kid.

Atlanta 1980 Rick James support.

Listen to that gig.

Prince's sound was much more musician oriented there.Arangments were more complex,lots of unis lines,great drum breaks.

well after this tour Prince stripped down

his sound a simplified the things.

He simplified the way Bobby plays drums.

Music become more new wave and new wave is a post punk sound,punk and post punk were not about great musicianship,it was all about energy.

So it makes me sad people don't know how underrated Bobby is on drums.

NOoooo lol that's not what I said I was saying Bobby Z is a very good drummer, I was sending the quote to the person who said "nobody is disputing" Bobby Z is a good drummer

check post #53