TheFreakerFantastic said:

Hey Bart, who were the people that advised him not to sign the $100million contract? I hadn't heard this before...do you have sources?

I recall this from interviews with band members who were around in those days.

He probably also signed it because he was probably heavily in debt,

The $100 million wasn't some sum he got. http://prince.org/wiki/1992_Contract

I think also there was probably a bit of subconscious competetiveness around MJ and Madonna who were also getting big deals around that time.

He wanted to have the biggest, but forgot that artists like those actually sell millions of records. He didn't. D&P sold 5+ million, and that took a lot of work, including a world wide tour.

dodger said:

BartVanHemelen said:

Everybody told him to not sign it. But he was greedy.

Alan Leeds is 100% correct: no artist has ever gotten this much freedom from his record company.

I agree with a lot of what you normally say but reading your posts there's 2 questions that spring to mind: 1) you seem so angry and bitter towards Prince as if he's done you wrong personally, what's that about?

Making the notes up in your mind, I see.

2) if he's so bad and done nothing good for so many years why do you still follow his career and visit Prince fan sites?

Yeah, because it's not like there have been some awesome bootleg releases. Which I could have found out about through mainstream music websites, no doubt.

I'm not taking the piss I just can't understand why you'd still be interested in someone who you appear to hate

Really, "hate"? Having a sensible opinion is now "hate"? Pointing out facts is "hate"?

^ An awful lot of people are of the thinking that if ones does not like Prince's recent output then one should not come to this site.

These people seem to forget that Prince's career has spanned 3 decades, not just the last couple of years. It seems to escape their minds that music from every year of his career is discussed here from time to time. This website is not exclusive to fans of recent material.

[Edited 11/30/11 6:49am]

[Edited 11/30/11 6:49am]

Guess it's time to do some web-sluething and find this documentary. It has already taken up 8 pages on a thread...and triggered the usual Orger b***h-fights

I'm watching this now - what I want to know if how come so much footage is on there from Paisley Park Enterprises? Stuff like the Camden Aftershow, Sign rehearsals - are these all on videos from somewhere else or what?

It's just showing him recording with Mavis Staples - was this perhaps released at the time to promote her or something?

I'm guessing he hasn't just let the BBC use them if they weren't commercially available elsewhere right?

I'm just surprised at the amount of footage I've not seen before.

I had a Prince night: watched the documentary and Purple Rain afterwards.

One think that struck me in the documentary, although i was already aware of it, was the whole Tipper Gore/Parental Advisory labels thing. The reason it struck me as off was I recently what Grease again for the first time since I was a child and during Grease Lightning song caught the lyrics 'With new pistons, plugs and shocks I can get off my rocks' with Knicky (sp?) doing the wank hand gesture 'you know that I ain't bragging she's a real pussy wagon'.

So what exactly was it about Darling Nikki that set old Tip off, is the word masturbating so bad, cause clearly P wasn't the only one talking about it?

softandwet said:

I'm watching this now - what I want to know if how come so much footage is on there from Paisley Park Enterprises? Stuff like the Camden Aftershow, Sign rehearsals - are these all on videos from somewhere else or what?

It's just showing him recording with Mavis Staples - was this perhaps released at the time to promote her or something?

I'm guessing he hasn't just let the BBC use them if they weren't commercially available elsewhere right?

I'm just surprised at the amount of footage I've not seen before.

He gave the BBC access to his vault when they made the 1991 Omnibus documentary. All that footage was shown in the 1991 documentary.

WTF, the link to watch the Janet doc, was on this VERY site and was not removed. be CONSISTENT moderators, geez!

ConsciousContact said:

softandwet said:

I'm watching this now - what I want to know if how come so much footage is on there from Paisley Park Enterprises? Stuff like the Camden Aftershow, Sign rehearsals - are these all on videos from somewhere else or what?

It's just showing him recording with Mavis Staples - was this perhaps released at the time to promote her or something?

I'm guessing he hasn't just let the BBC use them if they weren't commercially available elsewhere right?

I'm just surprised at the amount of footage I've not seen before.

He gave the BBC access to his vault when they made the 1991 Omnibus documentary. All that footage was shown in the 1991 documentary.

Ah I see, that explains it then! Thanks!

TheDigitalGardener said:

^ An awful lot of people are of the thinking that if ones does not like Prince's recent output then one should not come to this site.

These people seem to forget that Prince's career has spanned 3 decades, not just the last couple of years. It seems to escape their minds that music from every year of his career is discussed here from time to time. This website is not exclusive to fans of recent material.

And there it is.

softandwet said:

I'm watching this now - what I want to know if how come so much footage is on there from Paisley Park Enterprises? Stuff like the Camden Aftershow, Sign rehearsals - are these all on videos from somewhere else or what?

It's just showing him recording with Mavis Staples - was this perhaps released at the time to promote her or something?

I'm guessing he hasn't just let the BBC use them if they weren't commercially available elsewhere right?

I'm just surprised at the amount of footage I've not seen before.

There have been what -- a mere handful of documentaries on Prince and you managed not to watch the best one? One that's been out there for 20 years? Seriously?

softandwet said:

ConsciousContact said:

He gave the BBC access to his vault when they made the 1991 Omnibus documentary. All that footage was shown in the 1991 documentary.

Ah I see, that explains it then! Thanks!

Of course I already had pointed that out a couple of pages ago -- and that they got access to the archive because they'd flown to Minneapolis for an interview and then Prince had changed his mind at the last minute. (Which I suppose was not so much Prince's idea as it was Prince's manager at the time.)

bashraka said:

What's the name of the song that starts at 4:55?

That'll be the bass/drum intro into I'm Yours, they're talking about watching him laying down the tracks all by himself for the first time yes?

Genesia said:

So...will this make it to BBC America, I wonder?

Snip - langebleu - moderator

TheDigitalGardener said:

^ An awful lot of people are of the thinking that if ones does not like Prince's recent output then one should not come to this site.

These people seem to forget that Prince's career has spanned 3 decades, not just the last couple of years. It seems to escape their minds that music from every year of his career is discussed here from time to time. This website is not exclusive to fans of recent material.

[Edited 11/30/11 6:49am]

[Edited 11/30/11 6:49am]

Awesome response.

I love Prince's earlier material for many reasons, The Memories I hold in that era, the actual sound of his Music and the fact he was "Raw talent" back then, doing stuff other Musicians weren't doing.......... Lets be real, Could you see Duran Duran singing about Masturbation? Incest? Nope............

On every Prince Album I have my fave's and my Hates, that also equates to all Prince's early stuff too, I listen to When U Were Mine almost daily, same with Purple Rain, Last December, All U Wanna C and shit loads of other tracks, on the other hand I can not say the last time I listened to Dig U Better Dead or Crystal Ball. Does this make me less of a fan? The hell it does.

Some people like three ply loo roll, others can manage with two ply............. (Not saying Prince's music is loo roll btw before you all jump on that )

BartVanHemelen said:

softandwet said:

Ah I see, that explains it then! Thanks!

Of course I already had pointed that out a couple of pages ago -- and that they got access to the archive because they'd flown to Minneapolis for an interview and then Prince had changed his mind at the last minute. (Which I suppose was not so much Prince's idea as it was Prince's manager at the time.)

Yes but so much of what you post is embedded in bitter, condescending, sarcastic nastiness, some people just skip over your postings even if they on occasion contain information.

blackbob said:

i felt it was all just too rushed...one hour isnt nearly enough....and there is no excuse for factual errors on a supposedly high quality bbc documentary...nothing compares 2 u wasnt his first uk number one.....and jimmy jam lewis ?....it was ok but could have been a lot better..alan leeds was indeed the voice of reason again...

I don't know, but something about Alan Leeds's tone when discussing Prince has often struck me as condescending or patronizing. Maybe it's because he was his manager for a while, he got used to being a kind of caretaker role. You can tell how much he bristled when addressing the "slave" / name change / contract dispute; even while John Bream and Alan Light both seemed to feel that Prince's stance was prophetic.

It's not the first time I've noticed it about Alan Leeds. His comments about the idea of Purple Rain the movie were also revealing--that he was like "c'mon who do you think you are, Prince, wanting to make a movie?" It's good to have people in your circle to give you a reality check... but I can see how that kind of presence, with that kind of tone, would be unwelcome to an artist trying to realize his vision. Prince's stubbornness rewarded him well early on in his career, so it is understandable that he has learned to rely on himself and himself alone for his artistic and business decisions, even at great risk to his legacy.

NuPwrSoul said:

blackbob said:

i felt it was all just too rushed...one hour isnt nearly enough....and there is no excuse for factual errors on a supposedly high quality bbc documentary...nothing compares 2 u wasnt his first uk number one.....and jimmy jam lewis ?....it was ok but could have been a lot better..alan leeds was indeed the voice of reason again...

I don't know, but something about Alan Leeds's tone when discussing Prince has often struck me as condescending or patronizing. Maybe it's because he was his manager for a while, he got used to being a kind of caretaker role. You can tell how much he bristled when addressing the "slave" / name change / contract dispute; even while John Bream and Alan Light both seemed to feel that Prince's stance was prophetic.

And Bream and Light are wrong.

Go ahead, look up the contracts REM and Metallica were signing at the same time Prince was and notice how those did talk about ownership of masters.

Or let's go back a bunch of years and look at the Rolling Stones getting screwed by their manager and them getting ownership of their future masters after that.

Ever ehard of Stevie Wonder? http://en.wikipedia.org/w....80.931976

Wonder independently recorded two albums, which he used as a bargaining tool while negotiating with Motown.[citation needed] Eventually the label agreed to his demands for full creative control and the rights to his own songs. The 120-page contract was a precedent at Motown and gave Wonder a much higher royalty rate.

That's YEARS before Prince signed his first contract and moreover TWENTY YEARS before Prince started his bitchfest.

By the early 1990s it was well-known that the music industry regularly screwed its artists in various ways. I've always read that Prince took classes on recordign contracts etc while at school, so he must have known about this. And if he didn't, he had managers and lawyers to figure it out. Former band members etc. have said how Prince acted against the advice of just about everyone around him when he signed that "$100 million contract", and Alan Leeds' words say as much: you made your bed, now you have to lie in it.

It's not the first time I've noticed it about Alan Leeds. His comments about the idea of Purple Rain the movie were also revealing--that he was like "c'mon who do you think you are, Prince, wanting to make a movie?"

IIRC that was him voicing the opinion of people from the outside.

bigd74 said:

bashraka said:

What's the name of the song that starts at 4:55?

That'll be the bass/drum intro into I'm Yours, they're talking about watching him laying down the tracks all by himself for the first time yes?

The part I'm talking about is just before Pepe talks about Prince playing the rhythm section instruments of bass, guitar, drums, and keys. Isn't that a 94 East song?

BartVanHemelen said:

It's not the first time I've noticed it about Alan Leeds. His comments about the idea of Purple Rain the movie were also revealing--that he was like "c'mon who do you think you are, Prince, wanting to make a movie?"

IIRC that was him voicing the opinion of people from the outside.

No, Alan himself says in the BBC interview that "I was probably the only one in the camp to doubt him" or something to that effect.

Available from this site for all viewers worldwide:

Link snipped - langebleu - moderator

[Note to mods: posted this link as it was linked on Andy Allo's FB site and it's not a Prince owned docu]

NuPwrSoul said:

BartVanHemelen said:

No, Alan himself says in the BBC interview that "I was probably the only one in the camp to doubt him" or something to that effect.

lol.. he said that prince was the only person in the camp that didn't doubt it

wow, i still haven't seen the doc. tried to watch it (even joined a movie site) days ago only to be frustrated with the "stops & starts" while "buffering". glad to see the link above, but it looks like P has his ppl all over it and its not showing up anywhere.

It isn't just Prince that asserts copyright - the BBC, for rxample, do the same.

are you people against torrenting this?

uuhson said:

are you people against torrenting this?

although i saw it i still found it almost straight away,( i burnt a copy for a friend) it was at my usual place. Any way this weeks docu is the Public Enemy one followed by an hour of Hip Hop at the BBC. sweet!

uuhson said:

are you people against torrenting this?

i'm for whatever will enable me to see the dag thing!

datdude said:

uuhson said:

are you people against torrenting this?

i'm for whatever will enable me to see the dag thing!

Snipped - langebleu moderator

Isn't this ridiculous that we can't post a link to something, where potentially 60 million people could have watched it live...

if only we could all stop suing eachother

funkmunki said:

datdude said:

i'm for whatever will enable me to see the dag thing!

Snipped - langebleu moderator

Isn't this ridiculous that we can't post a link to something, where potentially 60 million people could have watched it live...

Indeed. I got banned from this site for mentioning where to get it. I accepted it and politely asked for an explanation as I thought it would be ok being as Prince does not own this doco. I wasn't afforded the courtesy of a response. I know Prince is on the lookout for links to his bootlegs but I hardly imagine the BBC being arsed to sue this site.

Anyway, I just watched the doco and it offers very little for the fans beyond the Ron Wood and Mica Paris aftershow clips which we've all seen anyway. Interesting for the non fan or casualfan though which is who the doco makers should be aiming it at.