Let's just chill.

I can take criticism.

TylerHippie said:

Let's just chill.

I can take criticism.

Dude,

Chill? It might be a good idea if you maybe think before you post. Chill on hitting enter for a bit.

Grandpa, myself and whoever else have taken issue with your tone and your comment about your 'black' friends and their intrinsic love for great rnb like The Ballad of Dorothy Parker. You attempted to legitimize an RnB song that you think is great by making a grand generalization about people of a certain skin colour/race who you think are all the same.

There have been some fools in this thread who are bashing us but the real issue here lies with you: you are way out of line with your talk and as a result, we spoke up against any little hint of racism and ignorance. We'll keep fighting the good fight - you might want to check yourself.

The world is changing son - your train of thought is getting old and is played out.

Jaydeep

http://emathipation.blogspot.com

http://www.myspace.com/thechocolateinvasion

jayARDAHB said:

This place is unreal!!!!

can you tell me this song's chords from the top of your head?

tyler couldnt do it. lets see if you can.

Tremolina said:

jayARDAHB said:

This place is unreal!!!!

can you tell me this song's chords from the top of your head?

tyler couldnt do it. lets see if you can.

I didn't really want to do it.

TylerHippie said:

Tremolina said:

can you tell me this song's chords from the top of your head?

tyler couldnt do it. lets see if you can.

I didn't really want to do it.

of course

Tremolina said:

TylerHippie said:

I didn't really want to do it.

of course

I actually do know it.

I seem to hear or know more about the people who complain about TylerHippie's threads than TylerHippie. So, I don't know if TylerHippie tries to antagonize people on purpose or if some folks are overreacting. However, as an African American, especially as a Black Nationalist, I wasn't bothered by his "my black friends" comment because I took it in the context that he was sharing the song with a younger generation of African Americans who may not know "The Ballad of Dorothy Parker" as a way to get their thoughts on the song. And while Prince is generally respected as a musical icon, let’s not forget--those of us who are old enough to remember--that during the 90s it seems that in the mainstream grunge and hip hop worlds the most uncool thing to be was a Prince fan, even for the young African Americans who like the R&B of that time. We seem to forget that from about 1993 to about 2004 Prince's appeal in the mainstream African American community had dropped considerably, and for all the lip service offered today it's only fashionable for the mainstream African American community to acknowledge him as an icon so I could imagine how someone who is not an African American would be interested in learning why Prince isn't as popular in the African American community as one might expect him to be.

*

As an aside, in 1996 while waiting with mostly white fans to purchase tickets for a Prince show, a thirty something white female told me that she mentioned to her mostly black co-workers that she was getting tickets for the Prince concert and their general response was "big deal?" So, she wanted to know "why don’t black people like Prince." And while her question and attitude was bit sweeping and myopic, I'm sure she did not expect the socio-political history lesson I gave her to contextualize our discussion about Prince and his African American fans, but, for me, it was an opportunity to discuss race with someone who seemed clueless or just did not want to acknowledge just how much race influences almost every aspect of American society. In fact, one of the things that I love about Prince is that he is a lightning rod for issues of race and gender because he has made a career of troping and manipulating the society’s anxieties, fears, curiosities, and fetish regarding race and gender. Yet, for all the love shown to him at the BET Awards, his desire to be an undefined hybrid has caused him to have a rocky if not on-again, off-again relationship with the African American community, and I can understand how someone on the outside of that community could be interested or curious as to why. And that curiosity could manifest itself in that non-African American sharing a song with one’s African American friends to see their reaction and to discuss what their reaction means, if it means anything at all, on a deeper socio-political level.

*

As for "The Ballad of Dorothy Parker" being the first true neo-soul song, I'm not sure. I agree with the people who have stated that it is one of the best examples of Prince's ability to master and amalgamate multiple sounds/cultures and make it all his. The song is simultaneously soul, jazz, and funk with the lines separating each genre being so blurred that one does not know where one genre ends and the next genre begins. That is classic Prince. At best, we can say that it was one of many songs that would have greatly influenced the generation that created neo-soul though I hate the term neo-soul because it has always seemed as a contrived term meant to artificially create a genre as a way to separate today's artists from the legacy of soul music. Yet, if taken at face value, the term neo-soul does represent young soul artists who have been raised with a hip hop sensibility. Accordingly, the drums or beat of “The Ballard of Dorothy Parker” underneath the sultry soulful and funky groove that, itself, has a jazz sensibility would appeal to a generation of beat, rhymes, and musical hooks.

TylerHippie said:

Tremolina said:

of course

I actually do know it.

then spil it now.

you have 60 secs

I'd use the term alternative soul.

1725topp said:

it is one of the best examples of Prince's ability to master and amalgamate multiple sounds/cultures and make it all his. The song is simultaneously soul, jazz, and funk with the lines separating each genre being so blurred that one does not know where one genre ends and the next genre begins. That is classic Prince.

that's well said

Tremolina said:

TylerHippie said:

I actually do know it.

then spil it now.

you have 60 secs

Nope.

TylerHippie said:

Tremolina said:

then spil it now.

you have 60 secs

Nope.

you are so weak

Tremolina said:

TylerHippie said:

Nope.

you are so weak

I'm sorry.

TylerHippie said:

Tremolina said:

you are so weak

I'm sorry.

yeah you should be

Tremolina said:

TylerHippie said:

I'm sorry.

yeah you should be

I am.

Lol at the above posts.

Tremolina said:

1725topp said:

it is one of the best examples of Prince's ability to master and amalgamate multiple sounds/cultures and make it all his. The song is simultaneously soul, jazz, and funk with the lines separating each genre being so blurred that one does not know where one genre ends and the next genre begins. That is classic Prince.

that's well said

Thanks.

1725topp said:

I seem to hear or know more about the people who complain about TylerHippie's threads than TylerHippie. So, I don't know if TylerHippie tries to antagonize people on purpose or if some folks are overreacting. However, as an African American, especially as a Black Nationalist, I wasn't bothered by his "my black friends" comment because I took it in the context that he was sharing the song with a younger generation of African Americans who may not know "The Ballad of Dorothy Parker" as a way to get their thoughts on the song. And while Prince is generally respected as a musical icon, let’s not forget--those of us who are old enough to remember--that during the 90s it seems that in the mainstream grunge and hip hop worlds the most uncool thing to be was a Prince fan, even for the young African Americans who like the R&B of that time. We seem to forget that from about 1993 to about 2004 Prince's appeal in the mainstream African American community had dropped considerably, and for all the lip service offered today it's only fashionable for the mainstream African American community to acknowledge him as an icon so I could imagine how someone who is not an African American would be interested in learning why Prince isn't as popular in the African American community as one might expect him to be.

*

As an aside, in 1996 while waiting with mostly white fans to purchase tickets for a Prince show, a thirty something white female told me that she mentioned to her mostly black co-workers that she was getting tickets for the Prince concert and their general response was "big deal?" So, she wanted to know "why don’t black people like Prince." And while her question and attitude was bit sweeping and myopic, I'm sure she did not expect the socio-political history lesson I gave her to contextualize our discussion about Prince and his African American fans, but, for me, it was an opportunity to discuss race with someone who seemed clueless or just did not want to acknowledge just how much race influences almost every aspect of American society. In fact, one of the things that I love about Prince is that he is a lightning rod for issues of race and gender because he has made a career of troping and manipulating the society’s anxieties, fears, curiosities, and fetish regarding race and gender. Yet, for all the love shown to him at the BET Awards, his desire to be an undefined hybrid has caused him to have a rocky if not on-again, off-again relationship with the African American community, and I can understand how someone on the outside of that community could be interested or curious as to why. And that curiosity could manifest itself in that non-African American sharing a song with one’s African American friends to see their reaction and to discuss what their reaction means, if it means anything at all, on a deeper socio-political level.

*

As for "The Ballad of Dorothy Parker" being the first true neo-soul song, I'm not sure. I agree with the people who have stated that it is one of the best examples of Prince's ability to master and amalgamate multiple sounds/cultures and make it all his. The song is simultaneously soul, jazz, and funk with the lines separating each genre being so blurred that one does not know where one genre ends and the next genre begins. That is classic Prince. At best, we can say that it was one of many songs that would have greatly influenced the generation that created neo-soul though I hate the term neo-soul because it has always seemed as a contrived term meant to artificially create a genre as a way to separate today's artists from the legacy of soul music. Yet, if taken at face value, the term neo-soul does represent young soul artists who have been raised with a hip hop sensibility. Accordingly, the drums or beat of “The Ballard of Dorothy Parker” underneath the sultry soulful and funky groove that, itself, has a jazz sensibility would appeal to a generation of beat, rhymes, and musical hooks.

Just want to point out that this was a great post.

And seriously, some of yall need to stop trippin on Tyler, dude is cool.

Militant said:

1725topp said:

I seem to hear or know more about the people who complain about TylerHippie's threads than TylerHippie. So, I don't know if TylerHippie tries to antagonize people on purpose or if some folks are overreacting. However, as an African American, especially as a Black Nationalist, I wasn't bothered by his "my black friends" comment because I took it in the context that he was sharing the song with a younger generation of African Americans who may not know "The Ballad of Dorothy Parker" as a way to get their thoughts on the song. And while Prince is generally respected as a musical icon, let’s not forget--those of us who are old enough to remember--that during the 90s it seems that in the mainstream grunge and hip hop worlds the most uncool thing to be was a Prince fan, even for the young African Americans who like the R&B of that time. We seem to forget that from about 1993 to about 2004 Prince's appeal in the mainstream African American community had dropped considerably, and for all the lip service offered today it's only fashionable for the mainstream African American community to acknowledge him as an icon so I could imagine how someone who is not an African American would be interested in learning why Prince isn't as popular in the African American community as one might expect him to be.

*

As an aside, in 1996 while waiting with mostly white fans to purchase tickets for a Prince show, a thirty something white female told me that she mentioned to her mostly black co-workers that she was getting tickets for the Prince concert and their general response was "big deal?" So, she wanted to know "why don’t black people like Prince." And while her question and attitude was bit sweeping and myopic, I'm sure she did not expect the socio-political history lesson I gave her to contextualize our discussion about Prince and his African American fans, but, for me, it was an opportunity to discuss race with someone who seemed clueless or just did not want to acknowledge just how much race influences almost every aspect of American society. In fact, one of the things that I love about Prince is that he is a lightning rod for issues of race and gender because he has made a career of troping and manipulating the society’s anxieties, fears, curiosities, and fetish regarding race and gender. Yet, for all the love shown to him at the BET Awards, his desire to be an undefined hybrid has caused him to have a rocky if not on-again, off-again relationship with the African American community, and I can understand how someone on the outside of that community could be interested or curious as to why. And that curiosity could manifest itself in that non-African American sharing a song with one’s African American friends to see their reaction and to discuss what their reaction means, if it means anything at all, on a deeper socio-political level.

*

As for "The Ballad of Dorothy Parker" being the first true neo-soul song, I'm not sure. I agree with the people who have stated that it is one of the best examples of Prince's ability to master and amalgamate multiple sounds/cultures and make it all his. The song is simultaneously soul, jazz, and funk with the lines separating each genre being so blurred that one does not know where one genre ends and the next genre begins. That is classic Prince. At best, we can say that it was one of many songs that would have greatly influenced the generation that created neo-soul though I hate the term neo-soul because it has always seemed as a contrived term meant to artificially create a genre as a way to separate today's artists from the legacy of soul music. Yet, if taken at face value, the term neo-soul does represent young soul artists who have been raised with a hip hop sensibility. Accordingly, the drums or beat of “The Ballard of Dorothy Parker” underneath the sultry soulful and funky groove that, itself, has a jazz sensibility would appeal to a generation of beat, rhymes, and musical hooks.

Just want to point out that this was a great post.

And seriously, some of yall need to stop trippin on Tyler, dude is cool.

Likewise brother.

You want the origins of Neo-soul? Try Roy Ayers, Prince was and never tried to be Neo-soul.

"You Make My Sun Shine" merely lampoons it IMHO, first of all, it's 6/8 in the form of D'angelo's "Untitled (How Does It Feel)" from Neo-soul 'pioneer' D'angelo's album (Voodoo), which the aformentioned refers to Prince (Which I think P. disapproved of), and to nail the point home - it was a duet with who else - The mother of D'angelo's kid thus Angie Stone...

What's my point? Prince is a reactionary ("Oak Tree" anyone?) and never tried to be Neo-Soul and "Ballad Of Dorothy Parker" is waaaaaay off.

Now You listen to even mainstream Roy Ayers or even some proteges i.e Ramp, Ethel Beatty et al which was loong before "Ballad..." and you tell me who was first...

Neo-Soul is dead anyway, you don't believe me? Ask Marsha Ambrosius.

'dre

[Edited 8/9/11 19:15pm]

Like others have said, just what exactly is "neo-soul"? Because that type of music has been around for oh so long. I do understand the vibe of the song and the point the OP's trying to make with it, though. To answer the OP's question, though, I might even go back a little further and say that Michael Jackson's "I Can't Help It" would be closer to being the first of that laid-back type of record. You have to admit that the two songs do have some similiarities.

Though, we could then go back further with the Isley Brother's "For The Love Of You", but that doesn't quite have the "jazzy" aspect of what people say is a part of the "neo-soul" movement.

Some of you need to release a collective semen discharge or just fuckin' breath already, damn

::Heavy sigh!::

Anyway, back to the OP's question, I don't know about it being the first true neo soul record, but it certainly is an influence.

Another thing(and I know it might not contribute anything to this discussion), but I remember an orger posting long ago about how the lyrics sound almost like a slam poetry record in terms of how the lyrics rhymes and even some singing parts in the song. Now, I don't know about that either but I'm fascinated about how fans of the song drew different interpretations from it, it just shows to you how great this song is.

I like reading some of the posts by some of the younger Prince fans. For some, it is the beginning of a journey that may lead them to a place where they develop a rabid appetite for all things Prince. For others, it may be a passing glance. That being said, the org goes through these waves of post flooding, but at the end of the day, some of the subject matter, while seemingly silly, are entertaining.

When thinking of Neo Soul, I would like to think that although D'Angelo's "Brown Sugar" was credited with it, someone like Sade (with her material) predates "The Ballad of Dorothy Parker" and should be in the discussion. Just my two cents

Anyways, like I said, I don't think it's the "first" so-called neo soul record. True, it might've influenced it, but I still hate that terminology. Something about "neo soul" makes me cringe.

chewymusic said: