ian said:

Cigarettes was about Lisa.you can say Easily on all the B-Side Tracks that W&L were on they were truly Singing in there own Key of Life.I dig this Song,the Sound was cool&the Vibe fit in well with His Personna.I Miss those quick B-Side Dittys sometimes that gave Prince's Music another Alter Ego to what was on His Mind at the time.

mistermaxxx said:

I disagree..I think it was intended for Brenda to sing on the App6 disc but he liked it and kept it for himself not changing the lyirc..Brenda was the smoker of the group with many pics of her with one already lit up etc. thats her on outro vamp as well.

rdhull said:

I forgot about Her Smoking.I was thinking in terms of that Revolution Groove&Sound that Prince had when Wendy&Lisa were there.you are Right.

fairmoan said:

It's certainly not bullshit my friend, rather it is an opinion. My opinion. I have absolutely no doubt that many disagree with me - you certainly do, that much is clear from the vitriol in your reply. However the popularity of my opinion is of no concern to me, and it puzzles me that you even suggest such a thing.

However there you go dismissing an opinion merely because it differs to your own: "you must be under a trance if Emancipation is among your favourite albums" - what is that about? Are you that intolerant in real life? I don't dictate to anyone how they should enjoy Prince's music - if I happen to like Emancipation that's my taste and my opinion, so keep your petty venomous comments to yourself pal. You really shouldn't feel threatened by people who have different opinions to you, that reeks of insecurity.

So you find my opinion "mind-boggling". Fine. Disagree with me. That's your perogative. We aren't all meant to agree on everything, that would make life rather boring.

However the very fact that you reacted with such vehemence and anger - in that you went to the trouble of clicking on my profile, seeing what my favourite albums are, and then slipping in a sly dig at me in your reply - indicates that you take my dislike for the song "17 Days" and other Revolution stuff very personally, as an affront to yourself. Perhaps you need to have a hard look at yourself, and wonder why you get so offended by the fact that someone likes different songs to you.

By no means is the fact that I like different music to you intended to impune your masculinity, question your parentage, or otherwise offend you. You really need to learn to just accept that people have different opinions.

ian said:

You've missed the point, and it doesn't surprise me. It's not your opinion on The Revolution, etc. that I labelled bullshit- it was your use of the great objectivity to bolster your position. My comment regarding Emancipation was intended to be ironic- I would have expected someone whose favourite album is Emancipation to be wary of using the term "objectivity" when it comes to Prince. I think the album is middling, to be truthful. My point is that it is a weak cop-out to defend your argument by saying you are speaking "objectively" and that others are simply in a spell when it comes to Prince.

And you certainly have read a lot into my response. I'll spend the rest of the day "taking a good hard look at myself" and analysing whether my response was provoked by deep-seated insecurities, possibly with respect to my masculinity.
[This message was edited Mon Feb 10 20:14:37 PST 2003 by fairmoan]

Check out that guitar synth sound in the left channel on the break down when Prince starts to talk.. "I called you yesterday..but you didn't answer your phone..."..geez almighty..this song is perfection all around. This song is

chookalana said:

That honor goes to "She's Always In My Hair", which should've wound up on ATWIAD...'17 Days' is close though. I remember the kids in our neighborhood as well as the local radio station spinning it quite a bit after they beat 'When Doves Cry' to death.

Love this song, that's about all I know about it...

ian said:[quote]

fairmoan said:

This DOES happen from time to time around here, doesn't it?

Of course, youe ARE way off base. The song is awesome. You are therfore WRONG for not liking it...

I remember when I got the When Doves Cry 12" (When I discovered these cool things called 12's that is) and when I played the B-Side I knew the words because this one radio station use to play it and I didn't know it was Prince.

17 Days has been the wake up song on my alarm for a LONG time now.

One of his best, no doubt.

TheMEssage said:

I just wrote down what Days Of Wild said and I heard they are hardly ever wrong, but who knows maybe they are this time.

Spanjeganger

TheMEssage said:

fairmoan said:

It's no cop out mate, it's my opinion. Some people worship every turd Prince drops into the bowl - that's a fact. However I'm not maligning "17 Days" with that label - I don't think it's that bad. My point about objectivity was merely that Prince fans by their very nature cannot be entirely objective about Prince's music and will defend all kinds of crap in the name of their hero.
If you don't believe that, you can't have spent much time on this site

However your attempt to stigmatise the fact that I like the "Emancipation" album (it's not favourite, but I like my it - forgive me for this sin) is just childish and indicative of an intolerance on your part. It's not much different to a bullying schoolboy picking on another kid who follows a different sports team. Grow up. As an adult you should be able to accept an opinion which is different to yours, without trying to stigmatise or label that person, and without feeling personally threatened. You must be a lot of fun at dinner parties... "Oh you like Woody Allen movies, so you're opinion is worthless".

Whatever point you may have been attempting to make is nullified by your plainly flawed reasoning - "person X likes album Y which I think is terrible and I'm never wrong so therefore person X opinion is invalid and bullshit".



Glad to hear it! So my effort wasn't totally wasted then.

ian said:

This is the last time I will attempt to explain because the message clearly isn't getting through. My argument has nothing to do with Emancipation album. I enjoy the album too and there is no shame in listing it amongst your favourites. But having read comments on the site about that album, I know it is generally not respected. Hence I was trying to show how the very reasoning you employed against 17 Days and the Revolution ("some Prince fans are so obsessed with Prince they'll defend even weak tracks,etc.") could easily (in fact, probably has) been used against you in relation to that album ("only a wacky Prince fanatic with severly clouded judgement could like that album"). It's a cop-out precisely because it can be used against any opinion one disagrees with. Up until that point you had been quite reasonable in spelling out your problems with the song, but there's no use saying "oh, I'm just presenting the unclouded view of Prince's work", because it's not only arrogant but philosophically problematic.

The only way I could accept that there are "biased" Prince fans is either a) if there existed a right answer to the question of musical tastes, which there clearly isn't; or b) there are fans who in spite of their hatred of songs still try and defend them. I find the latter hard to swallow, and it doesn't solve the problem of your argument, since who are you to know when these people are lying?

fairmoan said:

You're the one that's being arrogant pal, coming on here and trying to belittle someone else's perfectly valid opinion of an album. There certainly was no cop out on my part.

You have missed the point entirely. Scroll back up the thread and READ my post - the post that you said was "bullshit". That post was ONLY talking about my own opinion of the track. I said that I'm not the sort of person that will love everything Prince puts out - some of it I like, some of it I don't. I didn't imply that people who like "17 Days" are "blind fans" as you suggest. I was talking about MYSELF.

So my friend, you are talking out of your arse. You intentionally misread my original post by isolating a single phrase and taking it out of context, and you then jumped in and started your pathetic willy-waving and adolescent jibes.

Here is what I said. It was my opinion only. The bit you isolated and picked on to start this argument is highlighted in bold:

ian said:


fairmoan also said:


That is utterly ridiculous. Of COURSE all Prince fans are biased in favour of Prince at some level - each and every one of us. You're a newbie on this site (relatively speaking) so you might not be aware, but there are some people who believe Prince can do no wrong. It's called hero worship, and it's to be expected on a fansite like this. However that by NO means implies that there is a "right" or a "wrong" opinion about music - it's just opinions. Nor does it imply someone is "lying" - there is no deception involved, apart from possibly self-deception.

By the way, I realise that your obviously fragile ego will not permit you the embarrassment of admitting you got it wrong - you misread and misunderstood (possibly intentionally) my original post before you stomped on in here calling my opinion bullshit, calling my statement a cop-out, and using pathetic bullying jibes to try and strengthen your position. I don't expect an apology, or for you to admit you got it wrong. That would clearly be too much to expect. So I'll expect you to either respond with more nonsensical ranting or else to quietly slink off this thread with your head hung in shame

ian said:



Well, you can read that any way you like, I suppose. My interpretation of your comment in the context of the discussion was that 17 Days was a "piece of shit" and that those who disagree obviously "have no objectivity when it comes to his music". You say you were only speaking of *your* opinion of the song-- so why bring in Prince fans at all, let alone the concept of objectivity. In any case, regardless of that, you are still quite clearly saying you are a more objective fan, one who "will not worship any old piece of shit he puts out." The problem is what is the piece of shit is entirely subjective.

I have never attempted to insult you directly. My problem has nothing to do with your musical opinion (which, considering you are a Prince fan, must be pretty good!). In fact, if anyone has been emotional, bullying and juvenile in this discussion, I would say it is you. Your attempts to belittle me through the use of condescending words like pal, mate, my friend, etc., and your suggestion that my comments are reflective of an "obviously fragile ego" or deep-seated insecurities are more personally venomous than anything I have said. Who has used "pathetic bullying jibes"?

Yes, I jumped on your statement regarding fan obsession and objectivity. I called it bullshit and I stick by that. But I have tried to explain my reasons instead of targeting you directly.

It seems that we have reached some point of agreement in that you have clarified your remarks as relating only to yourself. As above I find it hard to interpret them in that light in their original form, but I'm willing to accept that is your true position.
[This message was edited Tue Feb 11 4:26:26 PST 2003 by fairmoan]

Spanjeganger said:

While about 99% of Uptown and Per's info is dead on, there are some things that are a LITTLE off because most of it is info transffered from one person to another and some things might get a bit exaggerated or whatever.

TheMEssage said:[quote]

Marrk said:

Not the "extended version" he's talking about. That one is an obvious fake.

Actually, Brenda DID sing on "17 Days" (at the end of the song when the fading starts). At least that's what Prince told us in a chat on his homepage a few years ago...

"17 Days" is a deserving Prince classic... Freaky, psychedelic guitar intro; buoyant, danceable beat; ferocious bassline; dissonant keyboards; that weird I-think-I-wanna-be-ska voiced-over bridge; and, yes, Wendy and Lisa's God-awful (and wonderfully) flat whining in the background.

I happen to agree with Ian: It is shtick. It is melodrama. It is imperfect. But it is, in fact, an example of what most people loved about Prince & the Revolution during that era. Here was a star-crossed hodge podge of rogues led by a self-involved, prodigious drama queen, playing some genre-defying aural concoction. What non-quirky acorn could fall from that tree?

...And it was awesome!

Lammastide said:

Lammastide
:FragiSexy wipes a tear:
Blessed Be!

ian said:

Some just need more attention than others.

ian said:

Nobody has ever sounded better with Prince, and the "out of tune wailing" was done by Brenda genius.

17 Days is, without a doubt, one of Prince's all-time great B-sides. Howcome he doesn't create this kind of music anymore?