Prince could have went through a ton of rejections as a solo artist the point is at the end of the day he still got signed with out a band. IMHO at the age of 52 years, Prince with all of his past accomplishments and experiences does not need a band atleast i dont think so. Of course the majority on here most likely won't agree with my opinion on here about that,but ohh well.

I think he should do a solo CD again.

OldFriends4Sale said:

acjohns said:

What people fail to understand is Prince started out as a single musician.At the age of 19 or 20 he signed he his first record deal and that was with out wendy and lisa and the rest of The "Revolution".

He did not sign his first record deal as a band member or part of a band.

People dont understand Prince is a one man performer; he always was and he always will be just that.

As some one mentioned earlier all of his band mates- The Revolution,NPG, and etc... are just hired help. With that in mind, It will always be a revolving door of Musicians in and out of Prince's Musical career.

HMMM I am wondering who he's going to have working on his next CD LOL?

If you understand how many rejections Prince got and then finally what was said to get Prince heard, it wasn't based on his being PRINCE,

Yet I'm a big fan of those early years of Prince and how hard he worked to get that 1st album

Prince could be a 1 man performer, if he wanted to just play a song on the drums, or on the piano or on the guitar,

Other than that he need a band which he got really quickly Bobby Z being the 1st having been in the 94East band

I wouldn't mind seeing shows with Prince just on Piano and Guitar. But would prefer a full band.

Yes they are hired help, but those earlier musicians were different, the whole state of Prince's person was different. He lived with did laundry with worked out with were poor with dated & went to high school this people 1 thing was being a no body vs the NPG musicians hired as he is PRINCE.

Yall giving W&L waaaaaaaaayyyyy to much credit. W&L were good during their time with Prince just like the rest of his bands except Tony M.

I believe he was way more controlling during his time with W&L. Today it seems like he gives his bands more freedom. After W&L were fired nothing changed. Prince continued to put out great music, #1 hits, critically acclaim albums like SCOTT & etc, still selling out the Garden at age 52, and he's coming to L.A. ( YEAH BABY!)

W&L biggest achievement was making soundtracks for T.V. shows. Who cares about that except for award shows. Did they make one hit album, NOPE!!!

The only time you ever here about them is when somebody ask about Prince.

People need to realise when Prince gets bored with you he kicks you to the curve and moves on.

Nobody ever brings up contributions from the Time or any of his other bands. Only W&L, and thats because of the movie Purple Rain.

I think Prince managed to do ok without them.

Why is it that Prince fans seem to think so lowly of Prince? Like, so many never want to give him any credit, like he couldn't compose a song or write worth a damn until Wendy and Lisa came along, and he needed them and they made him...

And I say that with no disrespect intended toward Wendy and Lisa. I've always thought they were the shit, always have, always will - in fact I sometimes get a little...fangirl-ish... about Wendy - but let's give Prince the credit he deserves. He was/is talented as hell and had already produced damned good music on his own before he even met them. And Wendy and Lisa were always damned good too...so when you put them all together, amazing stuff came out of it.

Selective reading, it's fun, easy and it always reinforces your own opinions

acjohns said:

Prince could have went through a ton of rejections as a solo artist the point is at the end of the day he still got signed with out a band. IMHO at the age of 52 years, Prince with all of his past accomplishments and experiences does not need a band atleast i dont think so. Of course the majority on here most likely won't agree with my opinion on here about that,but ohh well.

I think he should do a solo CD again.

OldFriends4Sale said:

If you understand how many rejections Prince got and then finally what was said to get Prince heard, it wasn't based on his being PRINCE,

Yet I'm a big fan of those early years of Prince and how hard he worked to get that 1st album

Prince could be a 1 man performer, if he wanted to just play a song on the drums, or on the piano or on the guitar,

Other than that he need a band which he got really quickly Bobby Z being the 1st having been in the 94East band

I wouldn't mind seeing shows with Prince just on Piano and Guitar. But would prefer a full band.

Yes they are hired help, but those earlier musicians were different, the whole state of Prince's person was different. He lived with did laundry with worked out with were poor with dated & went to high school this people 1 thing was being a no body vs the NPG musicians hired as he is PRINCE.

u sent 4 of the same same message

[Edited 4/9/11 11:34am]

NouveauDance said:

Selective reading, it's fun, easy and it always reinforces your own opinions

...Who, me?

To be fair my comments were actually on subject (albeit in a roundabout way ).

In a nutshell - Prince was/is talented as hell and accomplished in his own right and he knew it. He knew what he could do and was clearly confident in and secure in his abilities. By the time he'd met Lisa (and then Wendy), he'd already produced entire albums on his own, writing the songs, playing all the instruments...

That's like saying someone who started their own business from the ground up, and turned it into a franchise or empire, feels intimidated by other business owners/CEOs. It just doesn't make sense.

I think if he felt anything, it was more along the lines of feeling he'd found equals or like minds in them.

But for whatever reason, so many fans want to think he needed them and was incapable of producing good work without them; or that he was intimidated or jealous of them...

I think at this point it'd be more interesting to go into where THAT need is coming from and why THAT is, but...that's a subject for another time I guess LMAO.

I'll give on the FACT that Prince has done...ok...without...The Revolution! The reason being...HE'S benefited from a very loyal and dedicated fan base. That embraced and enveloped him...during the ONLY time...that HE'S actually ever been GREAT! Which was...WHEN...he was with The Revolution!

Since no one else around here...seems to have the balls to say it...I will!

Had Prince opened up...the 2004 Grammy Awards with The Revolution (Wendy, Lisa, Dr. Fink, Brown Mark and Bobby Z) along for the ride! Beyonce Knowles would be a distant memory...of what used to be Destiny's Child!

armpit said:

NouveauDance said:

Selective reading, it's fun, easy and it always reinforces your own opinions

...Who, me?

Not only. I was just addressing the thread in general.

I just think whenever there's a W&L thread, every half a dozen posts is one about how 'some people think W&L made Prince' etc. I've never seen anyone say that, I see praise and preference, but never anyone saying W&L were the singular touchstone of Prince's output. I just think some people see these threads and it's red rag to a bull.... I don't think acknowledging W&L's input lessens anyone elses, most people in this thread are careful to point out other strong collaborators, usually as a foil to the criticism that's incoming for daring to big up W&L!

Prince is still Prince - this is Prince.org not W&L.org, but whatever people like to think, no one does it all by themselves, not even Prince - a big part of his music is all the people that contributed

'Prince was jealous of Wendy and Lisa? Please think it was the other way around. He dressed better than them & had better hair..lol What hit songs has W&L written b4 & after Prince none & where were the hits on there solo albums none again. This whole W&L thing gets so overrated. They were hired musicians.

What other type of music W&L hipped Prince 2? He was already a fan of Joni Mitchill. Joni says she use 2 c Prince @ her concerts b4 he was signed...

Lisa was an excellent keyboard player that got better after she joined Prince band & Wendy's guitar playing got way better after she joined Prince. But Wendy's guitar playing was horrible during the Purple Rain tour. That "WDC" solo was horrid during that tour. will excuse her though. Because she was real young fresh out of high School on her first tour with a superstar back then.

I'll give them credit 4 adding a good comic relief & depth 2 the "Purple Rain movie & gave it more personality. But that is it. The Revolution period had individual personality. But it was a total Prince creation that worked at the time.

give Lisa more credit. Because she was there in the beginning and loved her keyboard playing & backing vocals. feel she was the best female background vocalist Prince ever used on his songs.Her voice fitted his music back then.But 2 say his music suffered after they left is not true & a slap in the face 2 Prince. If Purple Rain didn't blow up this thread wouldn't even be here.

Prince has had more & many hits after W&L left including radio album cuts. Sott,U Got The look,ICNTTPOYM,Housequake,Alphabet St, Theives In the Temple,Batdance,Partyman,Scandalous,Insaitable, Gett Off, Diamonds & Pearls,Cream,7, Hate U,TMBGITW. That is a lot of hits 4 someone that career supposedly suffered after 2 bandmates left..

don't hate W&L they were talented. But they were not the beginning & ending Of Prince. Prince has still had continued success without them. Case closed.

[Edited 4/9/11 23:21pm]

silkylee said:

Yall giving W&L waaaaaaaaayyyyy to much credit. W&L were good during their time with Prince just like the rest of his bands except Tony M.

I believe he was way more controlling during his time with W&L. Today it seems like he gives his bands more freedom. After W&L were fired nothing changed. Prince continued to put out great music, #1 hits, critically acclaim albums like SCOTT & etc, still selling out the Garden at age 52, and he's coming to L.A. ( YEAH BABY!)

W&L biggest achievement was making soundtracks for T.V. shows. Who cares about that except for award shows. Did they make one hit album, NOPE!!!

The only time you ever here about them is when somebody ask about Prince.

People need to realise when Prince gets bored with you he kicks you to the curve and moves on.

Nobody ever brings up contributions from the Time or any of his other bands. Only W&L, and thats because of the movie Purple Rain.

I think Prince managed to do ok without them.

Na Na Na Na ..Dude looks like a lady..Na Na Na Na ..Dude looks like a lady.. I'm sorry..

Detroit said:

Na Na Na Na ..Dude looks like a lady..Na Na Na Na ..Dude looks like a lady.. I'm sorry..

Not everyone is as terrified as Prince of people seeing them out of their pompadour wig and wear-once tailored dayglow blouses.

SquirrelMeat said:

Wendy and Lisa may not have written to many songs with Prince by their fingerprints are all over the 1983-86 era.

They were the first and last female sidekicks that Prince took everywhere that actually have proper musical talent. Before and after Prince just wore his women like a bracelet.

From the Grammys, to the ATWIAD listening premiere through to the Rolling Stone cover, W&L were there.

In the same period, Prince went through his most productive period, and changed styles more times than any other. Much of the earthy funk sound that was developed them was the exact same sound that continued with W&L's solo work.

Without a doubt Prince is the major talent, but I don't think it should be underestimated how improtant W&L were, even if it were simply guidance and inspiration.

I think they would have gone on to really great things together, but when Prince starts boning you sister, it was only going to end in tears.

I do think that Wendy & Lisa get far too much credit for inspiring some Prince's greatest works, but I can see both points.

Was he jealous of them though? Professionally, no . . . on their own they're a niche act and actually kinda boring IMO. Personally - yes . . . I think he would've been jealous of a budding friendship/relationship forming within the Revolution that took focus away from himself.

One thing to keep in mind: W&L's influence extended far beyond the Prince albums they appear on. Prince's writing and recording during their years was so prolific, I would bet that we're still hearing songs that W&L contributed to (either conceptually or musically).

I made this point as a joke on another thread, but I think the underlying idea i valid enough:

If Prince's musical development from 1983 to 1986 is evidence of W&L importance, then couldn't we just as easily claim that W&L made Prince a better dancer?

Prince’s dancing improved a great deal from 1983 to 1986. He did his best dancing on the Parade tour IMO. You can point to the SOTT tour as evidence that Prince was still a great dancer after W&L left, but in 1987 Prince was still under W&L’s influence. Later he was influenced by hip hop…

The point I keep returning to is: why weren't W&L huge successes on their own? They've have moderate success - but they did not blow up or anything.

Se7en said:

The point I keep returning to is: why weren't W&L huge successes on their own? They've have moderate success - but they did not blow up or anything.

It's not about the success, it's about the quality and inspiration

eireboy34 said:

Se7en said:

The point I keep returning to is: why weren't W&L huge successes on their own? They've have moderate success - but they did not blow up or anything.

It's not about the success, it's about the quality and inspiration

Do you mean of their solo work, or their effect on Prince?

Se7en said:

eireboy34 said:

It's not about the success, it's about the quality and inspiration

Do you mean of their solo work, or their effect on Prince?

I'm just saying that "success" is not necessarily an indicator of quality...when Wendy and Lisa stopped working with Prince the magic and inspitation left all of them a bit.

I just think that its impossible to continue to release an outrageous amount of great songs and albums that Prince did between 1980-87. Not to mention his wonderful B-sides and the top notch songs he wrote for other artists. He was on fire for those 7 years and even if wendy and lisa had stayed, i just dont think he would have been able to continue to put out so many good songs at such a rate.

Now dont get me wrong, i consider both Love symbol and The Gold Experience among his very best albums. Which does show that even in the 90's, he came up with two albums that were in the same league as his 80's work. But ofcourse as he got older, he wasnt going to be able to make albums of that caliber on a regular basis. Most songwriters are at their peak at that age but there is a limit to everything. No one remains at their peak forever

I think Prince deserves alot more credit then he is being given. Remember that it was him and him alone that wrote most of his best stuff between 1980-87 single handedly and to expect him to keep it up forever is unrealistic.

Besides he did make a few of his best albums after they left

eireboy34 said:

Se7en said:

Do you mean of their solo work, or their effect on Prince?

I'm just saying that "success" is not necessarily an indicator of quality...when Wendy and Lisa stopped working with Prince the magic and inspitation left all of them a bit.

I'll agree that some of the magic was lost, but who's to say that wouldn't have happened even if they stayed together.

The 80s were a time of constant change . . . almost every year there was a new musical direction and fashion trend. My point is: The Revolution/Purple Rain/W&L all happened as a sorta "perfect storm" in the mid 80s. Prince would've been just as huge (IMO) without Wendy (I say this because Lisa was around since almost the beginning), but I'm sure he would've continued in more of the 1999/PR style. Or at least he would not have evolved into the ATWIAD/Parade sound so quickly without Wendy's influence.

Who knows. The best part? We don't have to know . . . that era is captured and we can enjoy it forever.

hhhhdmt said:

I just think that its impossible to continue to release an outrageous amount of great songs and albums that Prince did between 1980-87. Not to mention his wonderful B-sides and the top notch songs he wrote for other artists. He was on fire for those 7 years and even if wendy and lisa had stayed, i just dont think he would have been able to continue to put out so many good songs at such a rate.

Now dont get me wrong, i consider both Love symbol and The Gold Experience among his very best albums. Which does show that even in the 90's, he came up with two albums that were in the same league as his 80's work. But ofcourse as he got older, he wasnt going to be able to make albums of that caliber on a regular basis. Most songwriters are at their peak at that age but there is a limit to everything. No one remains at their peak forever

I think Prince deserves alot more credit then he is being given. Remember that it was him and him alone that wrote most of his best stuff between 1980-87 single handedly and to expect him to keep it up forever is unrealistic.

Besides he did make a few of his best albums after they left

U made some good points.

But I will say, that there were at least 5 album that could have been released with the music we know of that could have took Prince into the 1990's easily (from the 1983-1986) period, and we could have still had 2-3 proteges of output.

I think the thing that would have kept Prince on an upward peak was those in his camp at the time. Because no 1 man can keep up with that themselves 2 have people around u that believe and carry out your vision is key. Prince had it.

I don't think (at least 4 me) that I'm taking away credit from Prince when I might say something concerning W&L or the Revolution or that period. Because these things and people revolved around Prince.

Maytiana said:

I really think so. His career peaked with them and they were a great contribution. According to interviews he fired them because they were contributing too much, but I think it's also because W&L would have become really famous because of him and probably pass him in success.

oh no. not this again

Hello! Prince was successful before Wendy was a thought, and he still is. You would figured W&L who influenced the greatest artist of all time, would be able to come up with one hit. JUST 1 HIT! THAT'S ALL I ASK!

The Time, sheila E, Vanity, Sheena Easton, even no talent havin Appolonia had a hit.

W.B. knew they found something special when they first laid eyes on Prince, Just like we know today.

People! Stop trying to steal Prince's SHINE!

Prince been great before, during, & after W&L. They rode on his coat tails.

JUST 1 HIT! JUST 1!

acjohns said:

Prince could have went through a ton of rejections as a solo artist the point is at the end of the day he still got signed with out a band. IMHO at the age of 52 years, Prince with all of his past accomplishments and experiences does not need a band atleast i dont think so. Of course the majority on here most likely won't agree with my opinion on here about that,but ohh well.

I think he should do a solo CD again.

OldFriends4Sale said:

If you understand how many rejections Prince got and then finally what was said to get Prince heard, it wasn't based on his being PRINCE,

Yet I'm a big fan of those early years of Prince and how hard he worked to get that 1st album

Prince could be a 1 man performer, if he wanted to just play a song on the drums, or on the piano or on the guitar,

Other than that he need a band which he got really quickly Bobby Z being the 1st having been in the 94East band

I wouldn't mind seeing shows with Prince just on Piano and Guitar. But would prefer a full band.

Yes they are hired help, but those earlier musicians were different, the whole state of Prince's person was different. He lived with did laundry with worked out with were poor with dated & went to high school this people 1 thing was being a no body vs the NPG musicians hired as he is PRINCE.

Prince needs a band in order to perform. W2A can't be done by Prince alone.

If Prince released an album every 2 years they might be good but in the last 10+ years there are way too many hit n misses. Sure he could record an album that's easy 4 him.

Prince got signed on a lie of sorts (he didn't do it himself) Another big artists name was mentioned and they were expecting someone else. Did he have the drive and go I seriously know he did. Much different than alot of people who get signed today and how it's done.

NouveauDance said:

Detroit said:

Na Na Na Na ..Dude looks like a lady..Na Na Na Na ..Dude looks like a lady.. I'm sorry..

Not everyone is as terrified as Prince of people seeing them out of their pompadour wig and wear-once tailored dayglow blouses.

That's cool, but they look like men..just sayin...

silkylee said:

Yall giving W&L waaaaaaaaayyyyy to much credit. W&L were good during their time with Prince just like the rest of his bands except Tony M.

I believe he was way more controlling during his time with W&L. Today it seems like he gives his bands more freedom. After W&L were fired nothing changed. Prince continued to put out great music, #1 hits, critically acclaim albums like SCOTT & etc, still selling out the Garden at age 52, and he's coming to L.A. ( YEAH BABY!)

W&L biggest achievement was making soundtracks for T.V. shows. Who cares about that except for award shows. Did they make one hit album, NOPE!!!

The only time you ever here about them is when somebody ask about Prince.

People need to realise when Prince gets bored with you he kicks you to the curve and moves on.

Nobody ever brings up contributions from the Time or any of his other bands. Only W&L, and thats because of the movie Purple Rain.

I think Prince managed to do ok without them.

That's not true, I bring it up all the time. the people in Prince's camp the proteges the band engineers. The Time gave Prince a good dose of competition, there was inspiration and new ideas and music styles from many different people in his camp.

gyro34 said:

Are you a Wendy and Lisa fan?

Detroit said:

NouveauDance said:

Not everyone is as terrified as Prince of people seeing them out of their pompadour wig and wear-once tailored dayglow blouses.

That's cool, but they look like men..just sayin...

Thank you for saying. The look like men and not attractive looking men. If P is girly at least he looks good

laurarichardson said:

Detroit said:

That's cool, but they look like men..just sayin...

Thank you for saying. The look like men and not attractive looking men. If P is girly at least he looks good

What do looks have to do with one's musical ability or artistic merit? I could understand it if this thread were called "Are Prince and Wendy & Lisa Still Attractive in Middle Age?"

But, this thread has ventured waaay off-topic...

[Edited 4/21/11 9:45am]

afro75 said:

laurarichardson said:

Thank you for saying. The look like men and not attractive looking men. If P is girly at least he looks good

What do looks have to do with one's musical ability & artist merit? I could understand it if this thread were called "Are Prince and Wendy & Lisa Still Attractive in Middle Age?"

But, this thread has ventured waaay off-topic...

Looks have nothing do with music but someone mentioned their looks and I agreed. The topic is ridculous to begin with and needed to go somewhere else.

P has the carreer he wants and I am sure W&L like being the new Indigo Girls. Different strokes for different folks.