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Thread started 02/28/11 3:12pm

parker

Prince made the right musical choices 90% of the time...

I used to think Prince left all the best songs off his albums, which was truly an incorrect assessment.


Dream Factory is a better unreleased album, than a released one. Crystal Ball would have been a mess in a bad way, Camille while a cool idea, would have just added confusion to Prince's catalog and The Black Album really is a throw-away (although enjoyable) album.


...'Computer Blue' in all it's "father the sun is gone, where is the dawn", "everybody work out", Hallway Speech, unedited glory would not have made sense in the context of the Purple Rain album. 'Take Me With U' was a necessary addition, and the edited 'Computer Blue' ends up being more focused and better for it. In addition, 'The Beautiful Ones' right after 'Let's Go Crazy' could only be looked at as a sequencing misstep. Also, he obviously made the right call leaving 'G-Spot' and 'Electric Intercourse' off the album in favor of 'The Beautiful Ones' and 'Darling Nikki'.
That said, what was he thinking ending 1999 with 'International Lover'? Why he felt compelled to reclaim this from The Time is beyond me. I guess ending a forward thinking,futuristic sounding, serious album with something like this is somewhat amusing, but probably not the right choice, although I can't say what would have been a better track to release in it's place? 'Moonbeam Levels' is 'Free' but not as good, 'Purple Music' sounds like a demo for 'All The Critics..." and 'Extra Lovable' should have been a Vanity 6 track. Probably would have been best to leave it off all together.


What I'm guess I'm saying is Prince while leaving many great tracks unreleased, usually did it in the spirit of innovation or creating cohesive artistic statements instead of just putting out collections of tracks. Would have been nice to get some of his unreleased masterpieces released as b-sides at the time instead of some of the junk we got – does anybody really like 'La, la, la, he, he, hee'? Better yet, if the US released singles like artists in the UK i.e. The Beatles, Joy Division, New Order, The Smiths. It would have been amazing for Prince to release a couple non-album track singles between every album he released...

[Edited 2/28/11 20:11pm]

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Reply #1 posted 02/28/11 5:24pm

hhhhdmt

true, but he has made some miserable choices too. Recording songs like Jughead and ignoring songs like Open book, I wonder and Get Blue.

But yes he has made the right choices most of the time

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Reply #2 posted 02/28/11 5:36pm

yomamafat

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thats why he needs a producer like quincy jones

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Reply #3 posted 02/28/11 5:39pm

JoeTyler

90% during the 80-87 era

50% during the 87-95 era

0% after that

75% since Musicology

tinkerbell
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Reply #4 posted 02/28/11 5:41pm

Spinlight

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"extra lovable" was never released, soooo...

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Reply #5 posted 02/28/11 6:10pm

Se7en

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JoeTyler said:

90% during the 80-87 era

50% during the 87-95 era

0% after that

75% since Musicology

Yeah, 1998-2003 was a weird time to be a Prince fan.

We got New Power Soul, The Vault: 0F4S, two Raves, ONA, TRC, NEWS, and lots and lots of scattered Internet-only releases.

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Reply #6 posted 02/28/11 8:10pm

parker

JoeTyler said:

90% during the 80-87 era

50% during the 87-95 era

0% after that

75% since Musicology

Agreed 100%

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Reply #7 posted 02/28/11 8:38pm

NouveauDance

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I see your hallway speech version better not on Purple Rain and raise you - "Computer Blue - 12" version", b-side to Take Me With U. drool - I agree in the context of the album it's better edited though.

'International Lover' was probably put on there to have a seduction ballad on the album, a la 'Do Me, Baby'.

Agree about Crystal Ball, kinda disagee about DF, Camille, and TBA - released as intended woulda been pretty cool, a bit of mystique and cred would've been gained I think (which then would've been stomped on immediately by the early version of the Graffiti Bridge movie).

JoeTyler said:

90% during the 80-87 era

50% during the 87-95 era

0% after that

He-hee, sounds about right.

[Edited 2/28/11 20:38pm]

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Reply #8 posted 02/28/11 9:38pm

dyvrdown

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JoeTyler said:

90% during the 80-87 era

50% during the 87-95 era

0% after that

75% since Musicology

what about the first two albums ._.

and he made both 90% and 50% during 87? i think sott was more like 100%.

blowup
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Reply #9 posted 02/28/11 10:31pm

chrisslope9

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Four words: Betcha By Golly Wow.

Enough said .

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Reply #10 posted 02/28/11 10:40pm

NightGod

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Please allow me to stand up and declare my love for La La La He He Hee. I wore out that 12" and had to buy another.

In addition, I will stand by the notion that Dream Factory would have been a game changer had it been released. It had a cohesive band vibe with some outstanding pop music. Sign of the Times threw everyone for a loop, and with that said, Sign is still one of my favorite albums of all time.

I miss the b-sides. Hell, I miss vinyl.

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Reply #11 posted 03/01/11 12:11am

vitriol

Why people always want to express their opinions as if they were a dogma of faith will always escape my understanding.

What next? Kamasutra his best effort ever? confused

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Reply #12 posted 03/01/11 12:43am

datdude

parker said:

I used to think Prince left all the best songs off his albums, which was truly an incorrect assessment.


Dream Factory is a better unreleased album, than a released one. Crystal Ball would have been a mess in a bad way, Camille while a cool idea, would have just added confusion to Prince's catalog and The Black Album really is a throw-away (although enjoyable) album.


...'Computer Blue' in all it's "father the sun is gone, where is the dawn", "everybody work out", Hallway Speech, unedited glory would not have made sense in the context of the Purple Rain album. 'Take Me With U' was a necessary addition, and the edited 'Computer Blue' ends up being more focused and better for it. In addition, 'The Beautiful Ones' right after 'Let's Go Crazy' could only be looked at as a sequencing misstep. Also, he obviously made the right call leaving 'G-Spot' and 'Electric Intercourse' off the album in favor of 'The Beautiful Ones' and 'Darling Nikki'.
That said, what was he thinking ending 1999 with 'International Lover'? Why he felt compelled to reclaim this from The Time is beyond me. I guess ending a forward thinking,futuristic sounding, serious album with something like this is somewhat amusing, but probably not the right choice, although I can't say what would have been a better track to release in it's place? 'Moonbeam Levels' is 'Free' but not as good, 'Purple Music' sounds like a demo for 'All The Critics..." and 'Extra Lovable' should have been a Vanity 6 track. Probably would have been best to leave it off all together.


What I'm guess I'm saying is Prince while leaving many great tracks unreleased, usually did it in the spirit of innovation or creating cohesive artistic statements instead of just putting out collections of tracks. Would have been nice to get some of his unreleased masterpieces released as b-sides at the time instead of some of the junk we got – does anybody really like 'La, la, la, he, he, hee'? Better yet, if the US released singles like artists in the UK i.e. The Beatles, Joy Division, New Order, The Smiths. It would have been amazing for Prince to release a couple non-album track singles between every album he released...

[Edited 2/28/11 20:11pm]

good post. i agree with your post about 1999. international lover may not have fit "thematically" but Prince cannot NOT have the obligatory "baby making" slow ballad. as u know, Do Me Baby, Adore, Scandalous, Insatiable, etc. fall into this category and P's r & b fan base was established and would expect a ballad different from Free on an album

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Reply #13 posted 03/01/11 2:48am

Trashcat

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JoeTyler said:

90% during the 80-87 era

50% during the 87-95 era

0% after that

75% since Musicology

agreed smile
Have a look at 'The W2A: Euro Tour Song Survey' http://prince.org/msg/12/362417
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Reply #14 posted 03/01/11 8:05am

JoeTyler

dyvrdown said:

JoeTyler said:

90% during the 80-87 era

50% during the 87-95 era

0% after that

75% since Musicology

what about the first two albums ._.

and he made both 90% and 50% during 87? i think sott was more like 100%.

I didn't include the first two albums because Prince needed then the heavy guidance of some producers and Warners, so he had not 100% control of his music

and the two 87 are divided between SOTT and the Black Album wink

tinkerbell
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Reply #15 posted 03/01/11 8:07am

JoeTyler

vitriol said:

Why people always want to express their opinions as if they were a dogma of faith will always escape my understanding.

and when will you stop being surprised/upset about it???

accept it

tinkerbell
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Reply #16 posted 03/01/11 8:21am

Spinlight

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JoeTyler said:

dyvrdown said:

what about the first two albums ._.

and he made both 90% and 50% during 87? i think sott was more like 100%.

I didn't include the first two albums because Prince needed then the heavy guidance of some producers and Warners, so he had not 100% control of his music

and the two 87 are divided between SOTT and the Black Album wink

Prince had 100% control over the second album. It was the first album which had help from 2 producers.

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Reply #17 posted 03/01/11 9:32am

JoeTyler

Spinlight said:

JoeTyler said:

I didn't include the first two albums because Prince needed then the heavy guidance of some producers and Warners, so he had not 100% control of his music

and the two 87 are divided between SOTT and the Black Album wink

Prince had 100% control over the second album. It was the first album which had help from 2 producers.

hmm I stand corrected then.

Anyway I give him a 0% in 1979 because of that crappy front cover and the fact that he didn't see that I Feel For You could have been a huge hit in 1979, or at least a R&B Number 1. And the creation of With You (a turd) is also debatable...

tinkerbell
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Reply #18 posted 03/01/11 10:28am

ecstasy

avatar

JoeTyler said:

Spinlight said:

Prince had 100% control over the second album. It was the first album which had help from 2 producers.

hmm I stand corrected then.

Anyway I give him a 0% in 1979 because of that crappy front cover and the fact that he didn't see that I Feel For You could have been a huge hit in 1979, or at least a R&B Number 1. And the creation of With You (a turd) is also debatable...

Awww I love With U sad

Yes, at 19, I finally saw the Revolution, a legendary band. And I talked to Wendy!!! biggrin In addition to seeing Prince, I have now lived life. Thank you Purple People!!
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Reply #19 posted 03/01/11 10:36am

funksterr

parker said:

I used to think Prince left all the best songs off his albums, which was truly an incorrect assessment.


Dream Factory is a better unreleased album, than a released one. Crystal Ball would have been a mess in a bad way, Camille while a cool idea, would have just added confusion to Prince's catalog and The Black Album really is a throw-away (although enjoyable) album.


...'Computer Blue' in all it's "father the sun is gone, where is the dawn", "everybody work out", Hallway Speech, unedited glory would not have made sense in the context of the Purple Rain album. 'Take Me With U' was a necessary addition, and the edited 'Computer Blue' ends up being more focused and better for it. In addition, 'The Beautiful Ones' right after 'Let's Go Crazy' could only be looked at as a sequencing misstep. Also, he obviously made the right call leaving 'G-Spot' and 'Electric Intercourse' off the album in favor of 'The Beautiful Ones' and 'Darling Nikki'.
That said, what was he thinking ending 1999 with 'International Lover'? Why he felt compelled to reclaim this from The Time is beyond me. I guess ending a forward thinking,futuristic sounding, serious album with something like this is somewhat amusing, but probably not the right choice, although I can't say what would have been a better track to release in it's place? 'Moonbeam Levels' is 'Free' but not as good, 'Purple Music' sounds like a demo for 'All The Critics..." and 'Extra Lovable' should have been a Vanity 6 track. Probably would have been best to leave it off all together.


What I'm guess I'm saying is Prince while leaving many great tracks unreleased, usually did it in the spirit of innovation or creating cohesive artistic statements instead of just putting out collections of tracks. Would have been nice to get some of his unreleased masterpieces released as b-sides at the time instead of some of the junk we got – does anybody really like 'La, la, la, he, he, hee'? Better yet, if the US released singles like artists in the UK i.e. The Beatles, Joy Division, New Order, The Smiths. It would have been amazing for Prince to release a couple non-album track singles between every album he released...

[Edited 2/28/11 20:11pm]

You can't underestimate how much the restrictions of mastering to vinyl drove the creation of Prince's albums. The restictions forced genius out of him because he had limited run time. The final product contained the best bits of his best songs.

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Reply #20 posted 03/01/11 11:23am

JoeTyler

ecstasy said:

JoeTyler said:

hmm I stand corrected then.

Anyway I give him a 0% in 1979 because of that crappy front cover and the fact that he didn't see that I Feel For You could have been a huge hit in 1979, or at least a R&B Number 1. And the creation of With You (a turd) is also debatable...

Awww I love With U sad

I L-O-V-E It's Gonna Be Lonely

but with you is ill

tinkerbell
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Reply #21 posted 03/01/11 11:26am

Poplife88

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Agree with most of what you said. But Computer Blue 12" should've been released somewhere, somehow...and La La La Hee Hee Hee is one my favorite Prince songs. Some major funked up funk goin on there.

We're gonna need a bigger boat
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Reply #22 posted 03/01/11 11:30am

JoeTyler

Poplife88 said:

Agree with most of what you said. But Computer Blue 12" should've been released somewhere, somehow...and La La La Hee Hee Hee is one my favorite Prince songs. Some major funked up funk goin on there.

in my opinion, his worst mistkaes in the 80s were:

-She's Always In My Hair should have been included in ATWIAD

-Mountains released as the second single instead of Girls & Boys

-If I Was Your Girlfriend released as the second single

-No american tour in 1987

so one could say that the problems started in 1985... hmmm

[Edited 3/1/11 11:32am]

tinkerbell
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Reply #23 posted 03/01/11 11:43am

vitriol

^I'm sure not touring the USA with SOTT was a clever decision.

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Reply #24 posted 03/01/11 11:59am

Spinlight

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Biggest mistakes:

1981:

-Canning "The Second Coming"

1982:

-Slashing "DMSR" from some editions of 1999.

1984:

-"Computer Blue" (in any extended fashion) remained unreleased, yet we have extended versions of "Another Lonely Christmas" and "I Would Die 4 U" which did see release. Why? Also: "God (vocal)" over "Computer Blue" extended? In the words of Ernest Sewell: R U Kidding Me Witt This Shit?

1985:

-The bratty no-video, no-promo approach to ATWIAD. The iron was hot, he should've struck it. Because he sabotaged himself, every success following Purple Rain was a mere ghost of 1984.

1986:

-Few options for singles on Parade. Yeah, yeah, classic album, but where's the singles? "Kiss" sure. Every other track is either not radio friendly or merely KIND of radio friendly ("Girls and Boys", "Anotherlover", and "Mountains" are a bit experimental for pop radio). Shoulda slapped "All My Dreams" on there and then released it as the third single (with a video and a single-edit to about 3:30 mins).

- Disbanding the Revolution.

Everything after that is pretty irrelevent as his career had, by then, taken unrecoverable losses. Not that selling 2-4m an album is bad or that selling 16m of an album is anything to sneeze at, but the upward trajectory took a sharp nosedive when the Revolution went bye bye.

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Reply #25 posted 03/01/11 12:24pm

NouveauDance

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JoeTyler said:

-Mountains released as the second single instead of Girls & Boys

-If I Was Your Girlfriend released as the second single

So true.

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Reply #26 posted 03/01/11 12:36pm

JoeTyler

Spinlight said:

1982:

-Slashing "DMSR" from some editions of 1999.

eek

tinkerbell
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Reply #27 posted 03/01/11 12:42pm

TheDigitalGard
ener

JoeTyler said:

Spinlight said:

1982:

-Slashing "DMSR" from some editions of 1999.

eek

True, when cd copies of 1999 were first released, the cd time was under 80 mins or something like this, hence DMSR was left off of those versions, when cd capicity time increased, it was released with DMSR in place.

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Reply #28 posted 03/01/11 1:10pm

Spinlight

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TheDigitalGardener said:

JoeTyler said:

eek

True, when cd copies of 1999 were first released, the cd time was under 80 mins or something like this, hence DMSR was left off of those versions, when cd capicity time increased, it was released with DMSR in place.

Yep - original CD edition is 62 mins whereas the actual album is 70 mins.

Additionally, there was a single LP edit of the album which, we can presume, would've been the tracklist of the album had he not chosen a double album.

1. 1999

2. LRC

3. Delirious

4. Free

5. LPWM

6. SITW (DNC)

7. Lady Cab Driver

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Reply #29 posted 03/01/11 4:01pm

Se7en

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Spinlight said:

Biggest mistakes:

1981:

-Canning "The Second Coming"

1982:

-Slashing "DMSR" from some editions of 1999.

1984:

-"Computer Blue" (in any extended fashion) remained unreleased, yet we have extended versions of "Another Lonely Christmas" and "I Would Die 4 U" which did see release. Why? Also: "God (vocal)" over "Computer Blue" extended? In the words of Ernest Sewell: R U Kidding Me Witt This Shit?

1985:

-The bratty no-video, no-promo approach to ATWIAD. The iron was hot, he should've struck it. Because he sabotaged himself, every success following Purple Rain was a mere ghost of 1984.

1986:

-Few options for singles on Parade. Yeah, yeah, classic album, but where's the singles? "Kiss" sure. Every other track is either not radio friendly or merely KIND of radio friendly ("Girls and Boys", "Anotherlover", and "Mountains" are a bit experimental for pop radio). Shoulda slapped "All My Dreams" on there and then released it as the third single (with a video and a single-edit to about 3:30 mins).

- Disbanding the Revolution.

Everything after that is pretty irrelevent as his career had, by then, taken unrecoverable losses. Not that selling 2-4m an album is bad or that selling 16m of an album is anything to sneeze at, but the upward trajectory took a sharp nosedive when the Revolution went bye bye.

He did a video for Raspberry Beret.

Pearl Jam was anti-video for a long time, having only done one proper video (Jeremy). They've since released a few more, but will never be considered a "video act".

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