His music before then was much better produced in my opinion. After that, the hits were meh, and not enough quality songs even though alot was released. And his classic sound was gone. Maybe he shoulda just kept his cool and did things the way he was doing it before.

He did what he felt was best for him, but the only thing i can say about it is that WB knew a hit and i dnt think Prince did. I don't remember what song or album this was about (i have bad memory sorry) but he was arguing to release a different song to what WB wanted as the first single, won and it flopped in the charts, then when the other song was released it did well- thats what i base my opinion on anyway. I respect the guy a lot for doing his own thing tho.

Fuck oath - from what i have read he has done the right thing, it is his work and he should be allowed to have complete control of it especially considering the amount of coin WB were getting from him..

http://prince.org/msg/7/313666

http://prince.org/msg/7/332527

There's nothing worse than someone managing you who doesn't have a clue about what you do but only has $ signs as pupils.

I didn't understand it at the time and didn't research it. In later years now, I have and I think he did the right thing. A musician has soul and corporates don't. Prince does what he wants to do now, music wise and commercially. That's a freedom few can afford. It also comes with disadvantages of course "doing it your own way" but I think the sacrifice was worth the price.

He's able to make "music" now that he wants and needs to do. No profession is fun if you're stuck at one level. He knew he could make hits and millions off them. He wanted to expand his repertoire which I think he's done successfully. He doesn't want to please the masses, he wants to please himself, and those who appreciate him for who and what he is "in every musical sense," benefit.

He set a precedent. He made a statement and he's still making money. How many million did he rake in with the Musicology tour? He doesn't need them. Or at least, when and if he does, he should use them the way they used him. It's crazy if you make something and because of a contract, on paper you're not the owner. Sure he needed them in the beginning for the initial investments but power in corporations normally knows no end, and he became a puppet to their vision not his own. Most people don't want that and a musician surely least of all.

jonty1975 said:

Fuck oath - from what i have read he has done the right thing, it is his work and he should be allowed to have complete control of it especially considering the amount of coin WB were getting from him..

Whatever.

Since he left WB his albums are worse, somewhat more scarce, normally more expensive and more difficult to get. He stopped 'proper' touring, now it's the fans who have to tour to see him play, ticket prices are damn higher and cancelations are more frequent. Finally, he mastered the 'wrong decisions' marketing model.

In a word, it was clearly a lose/lose/lose situation. WB lost, he lost and us fans (with N) lost.

Prince is an artist, not a business man

OldFriends4Sale said:

Prince is an artist, not a business man

You hit it right on the nail

Define "right."

Right for him?

Right for me?

Right for you?

How can we know the global consequences of his decision in order to even determine right or wrong when we cannot know what would've happened if he stayed with WB?

Just because you don't like the choice he made, makes it neither right nor wrong...it just IS.

And now we must all deal with the reality of it. Right or wrong...like it or don't...it's all we got.

CallMeCarrie said:

Define "right."

Right for him?

Right for me?

Right for you?

How can we know the global consequences of his decision in order to even determine right or wrong when we cannot know what would've happened if he stayed with WB?

Just because you don't like the choice he made, makes it neither right nor wrong...it just IS.

And now we must all deal with the reality of it. Right or wrong...like it or don't...it's all we got.

Yes. Because I couldn't take any more years of Prince using his cheek as a message board. I'm guessing we were fairly close to seeing him write "Concentration Camp Prisoner" with his Maybelline eyeliner.

OldFriends4Sale said:

Prince is an artist, not a business man

Despite artistry, if you have a product to sell you must

a) be a good businessman if you want to do it yourself

b) hire good businessmen to do it for you (even if they have to force you to make decisions/choices you wouldn't like)

Someone this thread up because I am not about to go into my whole littany on why LABELS are bad, using "hits" to measure success is stupid and how Prince predicted the fall of the music industry AGAIN.

Go to one of the other 2,000 threads plz

yes i think he did the right thing.

I think it was right of Prince to stand up for himself and keep wanting more control over his music and his royalties. He did sign contracts with WB, so has nothing to complain about when it came to what he signed for. From time to time he seemed very unreasonable considering he got more from WB than any other artist on that label according to WB, but he is the money maker and yeah music careers don't last forever and having control of royalties is something to fall back on when artist's music turn to crap (see 20ten).

Prince's music after WB was definitely more hit and miss, its almost like he needed the anger and fury of WB to get Prince to make good music. Prince still has had some fantastic albums after WB like Rainbow Children, 3121, Planet Earth (his last great album IMHO), ONA, most of Emancipation, Crystal Ball (minus the horrible editing), some of Lotusflow3r/MPLSound and a few other albums that escape me.

I honestly think becoming JW killed his career than leaving WB did. Even though he did Rainbow Children, the lyrics were horseshit cult crap and now he has to sneaky subtle about his sexuality.....overall, he has to restrict and repress himself now musically to make 'God' happy. Its limited his creativity and it shows now more than ever on 20ten and most of MPLSound.

I wish Prince would wake up and actually read The Bible all the way through. Want to turn someone into an atheist, give them a Bible and tell them to read it, not what their pastors and ministers tell you to read.

[Edited 10/5/10 15:52pm]

vitriol said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

Prince is an artist, not a business man

Despite artistry, if you have a product to sell you must

a) be a good businessman if you want to do it yourself

b) hire good businessmen to do it for you (even if they have to force you to make decisions/choices you wouldn't like)

I know what you're saying, but technically you don't have to do either - you can make and distribute your music as you wish, particularly if you are no longer attached to the outcome (granted, I'm not convinced that Prince isn't attached to a certain level of success, but still...)

If you want to meet certain goals (eg. top ten hits, sell-out stadium tours, etc...) then this comes into play, but technically Prince can do whatever he wants. He said he's not interested in the charts and he doesn't seem drawn to the huge tours, so

We could debate what came first (ie. not caring about charts so not promoting effectively, or not promoting effectively thus claiming to not care about charts), but he seems happy enough with his choices for now - if he wasn't, he'd be back with a big record company.

CallMeCarrie said:

Just because you don't like the choice he made, makes it neither right nor wrong...it just IS.

HELL FUCK YES!

Things that make u go hmmmm!

Good points and you really need to hit up the threads that luv4u suggested to get more insight.

Someone said it best ... it is what it is.

IMHO Prince was right but as vitrol stated if you are not good at business hire someone to do it for you and 17 years later the labels are still the best method of releasing music.

I would love for younger fans to have lived in a period where there was a real MTV or BET where acts did not have to be HYPED to be bought.

You did not have to hype Michael's Thriller or Prince's Purple Rain or Madonna's Like A Virgin.

muleFunk said:

the labels are still the best method of releasing music.

By what criteria though?

They do seem to ensure the most prolific distribution, the most airplay and generate the most sales.

They also ensure the lowest percentage cut for the artist of any method of releasing music, plus they often put restrictions and/or make demands regarding what needs to be on the album.

In order to do what they do they also have methods of promotion that many musicians feel devalues the music and/or the artist themselves, not to mention all of the interviews and appearances that are par for the course in that world that some people love doing but many really don't.

So is it always the best method of releasing music? Or does it depend what your priorities are as a musician?

Chiquetet said:

muleFunk said:

the labels are still the best method of releasing music.

By what criteria though?

They do seem to ensure the most prolific distribution, the most airplay and generate the most sales.

They also ensure the lowest percentage cut for the artist of any method of releasing music, plus they often put restrictions and/or make demands regarding what needs to be on the album.

In order to do what they do they also have methods of promotion that many musicians feel devalues the music and/or the artist themselves, not to mention all of the interviews and appearances that are par for the course in that world that some people love doing but many really don't.

So is it always the best method of releasing music? Or does it depend what your priorities are as a musician?

Its really how you feel about making the most money with your music VS popularity.

Right now the labels are selling all that they have and that is a major distribution and promotion team. But in return what do you get? Not much anymore. Because the industry is in such a dire state, they are taking away more from the artist. All they offer is fame (which is hit or miss)

They're only giving artist 8 -10% royalty rates on both the Artist and mechanicals, which is laughable. They also want to keep your masters, your publishing and take 15-20% off of your merchandising, licensing and tour revenue, something that use to be sacred.

Basically going with a label is artistic suicide, unless your a superstar, who are also getting screwed in the long run.

With the Death of the C.D. labels are becoming more and more obsolete.

& Prince paved the way to this new enlightenment.

The minute he found that his name was a trademark owned by WB, and how much royalties where withholded from him by label scams like phony free goods. He knew that what he was offered by labels wasn't artistic expression. What he was really offered was a Golden Parachute, in return for monopoly rights to his music. So that instead of him controlling his music, some exec does.

"One who in truth created nothing... In essence, a fraud"

[Edited 10/5/10 17:57pm]

Chiquetet said:

muleFunk said:

the labels are still the best method of releasing music.

By what criteria though?

They do seem to ensure the most prolific distribution, the most airplay and generate the most sales.

They also ensure the lowest percentage cut for the artist of any method of releasing music, plus they often put restrictions and/or make demands regarding what needs to be on the album.

In order to do what they do they also have methods of promotion that many musicians feel devalues the music and/or the artist themselves, not to mention all of the interviews and appearances that are par for the course in that world that some people love doing but many really don't.

So is it always the best method of releasing music? Or does it depend what your priorities are as a musician?

I think you are correct here although I think everyone seems to want to be famous.

There are still major problems with the industry which IMO I think will never be resolved because the technology that exists is going to make them obsolete. However I love going to the store and buying a new CD. The only people that make that possible is the record labels.

muleFunk said:

Chiquetet said:

By what criteria though?

They do seem to ensure the most prolific distribution, the most airplay and generate the most sales.

They also ensure the lowest percentage cut for the artist of any method of releasing music, plus they often put restrictions and/or make demands regarding what needs to be on the album.

In order to do what they do they also have methods of promotion that many musicians feel devalues the music and/or the artist themselves, not to mention all of the interviews and appearances that are par for the course in that world that some people love doing but many really don't.

So is it always the best method of releasing music? Or does it depend what your priorities are as a musician?

I think you are correct here although I think everyone seems to want to be famous.

There are still major problems with the industry which IMO I think will never be resolved because the technology that exists is going to make them obsolete. However I love going to the store and buying a new CD. The only people that make that possible is the record labels.

Not true at all.

muleFunk said:

Chiquetet said:

So is it always the best method of releasing music? Or does it depend what your priorities are as a musician?

I think you are correct here although I think everyone seems to want to be famous.

I agree that almost everyone starts out that way, but once you've experienced the height (and price) of fame, like Prince has, perhaps the novelty of that side of it wears off.

There are still major problems with the industry which IMO I think will never be resolved because the technology that exists is going to make them obsolete. However I love going to the store and buying a new CD. The only people that make that possible is the record labels.

I still love buying CDs too, but I'm not sure about the absolutes, because we don't know what's around the corner. Perhaps further advances in technology will somehow ensure digital work is protected (don't ask me how, lol!). What if a different business model started to drive the music stores and the big labels no longer had the monopoly on distribution?

As it is, I can go into my local music store and buy Lotusflow3r, Planet Earth, etc... and what's not there I can order in (ie. they're only not stocked due to supply/demand). Had 20ten been released the way the others were, I could buy that too. Same goes for other independent and local artists that aren't signed to one of the major labels.

So yes, I guess on a technicality record labels make it possible (ie. Prince's albums are released on *a* label), but it's not the exclusive right of the WBs of the world.

Granted, they have somewhat of a commercial deathgrip on the industry at the moment, but as has been said, this is changing as the industry changes.

I love how you all cry when I asked the simple question and take it like an insult or something like some sort of hardcore groupy sluts. Plus I didnt know there were other threads.

I personally like his sound more when he had the label. its much different then what it was afterwards. Though I do like the fact that he has musical freedom and that doesnt mean that I hate his other later stuff.

LayzieKiddZ said:

I love how you all cry when I asked the simple question and take it like an insult or something like some sort of hardcore groupy sluts. Plus I didnt know there were other threads.

I personally like his sound more when he had the label. its much different then what it was afterwards. Though I do like the fact that he has musical freedom and that doesnt mean that I hate his other later stuff.

Then google them or use the search function.

Signed,

Groupy Slut

Spinlight said:

LayzieKiddZ said:

I love how you all cry when I asked the simple question and take it like an insult or something like some sort of hardcore groupy sluts. Plus I didnt know there were other threads.

I personally like his sound more when he had the label. its much different then what it was afterwards. Though I do like the fact that he has musical freedom and that doesnt mean that I hate his other later stuff.

Then google them or use the search function.

Signed,

Groupy Slut

Some topics are gonna have to come up again at some point, groupie slut.

LayzieKiddZ said:

Spinlight said:

Then google them or use the search function.

Signed,

Groupy Slut

Some topics are gonna have to come up again at some point, groupie slut.

Why?

cause of your lazi....

oh

should've looked at your name

my bad...

carryon

EmbattledWarrior said:

LayzieKiddZ said:

Some topics are gonna have to come up again at some point, groupie slut.

Why?

cause of your lazi....

oh

should've looked at your name

my bad...

carryon

You know I sincerly apologize for anyone who took offence to my groupy slut post.

[Bait snip - luv4u]

But he took their money.

They invested in him.

And, he signed up for lucrative -- some would say laughably lucrative -- contracts with them.

Their gripe was often against flooding the market with his product. From a business perspective, that was smart. They also seemed to have a feel for consistency. Prince, when left to his own devices, hasn't always been the best judge of a good song. Quality control can be helpful to him.

I get the creative process. I also get the benefit of having someone who isn't particularly wedded to your artistic process or motivation being able to objectively tell you that Song A will be a great lead-off single for your new album. It can be hard to marry the commercial and the artistic, but Prince had already bought the ticket for that show.

Because. He. Took. Their. Money. Repeatedly.