JoeTyler said:

I have always said that Lovesexy was, is and will be a mess, a disaster

I know this album has many fans (which makes me wonder the level of fanaticism of those fans, considering that Lovesexy came after that timeless masterpiece called SOTT), but just get over it please... if not for Alphabet St., Lovesexy would be completely uneven.

The short version of I Wish You Heaven sounds like the castration that it is, Eye No, as ufoclub has said, is travesty of The Ball, and other good songs, like Anna Stesia (crappy lyrics anyway: "a boy or a girl"...wtf Really Prince, really??? ), the title-track or Glam Slam are trapped under tons and tons of late-80s cheese, plastic production and happy keyboards...disgusting.

And Dance On is a throaway, no more and no less, but I gotta admit that it's better than Tambourine or even Lemon Crush...

And don't get me started with the concept of the album: S-I-L-L-Y!! Positivy features one of his worst-ridiculous lyrics of all time. The album was a rushed substitute of the SUPERIOR Black Album, and the story of Prince dissing the BA because he thought that the whole album had a negative/evil vibe makes me wonder if the man had an accident in the late 1987 which made him temporarily stupid (I mean, IQ 72), or whatever...

Of course Eric Leeds was disappointed; they recorded a funky album (which surely sounded very similar to the unreleased Black Album) and he transformed it into a cartoon ...

I still dig Alphabet St, Lovesexy, Glam Slam and I Wish You Heaven (long version), but the rest, pfff...

the album was the failure it was meant to be and now is completely forgotten (Prince fans being the exception ), the failure was dire...even the LP front cover was a disgrace

Thank God for Batman, it saved his career

[Edited 7/31/10 15:18pm]

^ Maybe LOVESEXY was a disaster, but in America only.

imo. LOVESEXY is far better than Batman, and LOVESEXY was very successful in Europe, #1 in UK afaik. And selling very well in other european countries too.

To me LOVESEXY is a true Prince masterpiece, the album is in my Top 5 of greatest albums ever.

the music is fantastic and the lyrics are very "uplifting"......

LOVESEXY - is the one, till my day is done....

[Edited 7/31/10 21:36pm]

The LOVESEXY cover pic is classic...

[img:$uid]http://a.imageshack.us/img823/8532/lovesexy.png[/img:$uid]

No need to feel offended, this pic is ART.....

ufoclub said:

Honestly I don't think Lovesexy is his creativer peak, or even that successful. I do admire it's concept, but I think Black Album was a more successful solid album. Lovesexy sounds rushed and so ornate and often too silly in melody.

Plus, he fucked up what I think is his creative highest point sonically "The Ball" and converted it, in a mad rush, into "Eye No" which is inferior to my ears.

People complain about a "plastic sound" now, but I think Lovesexy suffers from a plastic attitude of melody and layering even if it's not the dry mix he likes now (which I like).

Don't get me wrong, I agree that conceptually it's great (and lyrically). And theart direction is GREAT.

But I definitely agree with the band members like Eric Leeds that were very disappointed but by how it came out vs how it sounded when they had recorded the bare bones tracks.

I suspect that the minimal dry production that he does now is what Eric heard when he was laying in his parts for Lovesexy, before Prince went hyperactive with keyboard embelishments, samples, counter melodies, and effects and reverb. Eric Leeds said he really thought it was a tough funky album before Prince frosted it with so many quick layers and a plastic knife.

Listen to how epic and imaginative the production and mix of "The Ball" is! Yet it all works together in with a lot of layers. That's because I think he took his time.

That's absolutely spot on and EXACTLY how I feel 'bout this record! (and probably why I almost exclusively listen to outtakes and alternates)

ufoclub said:

purpledoveuk said:

LiveToTell86 said: Oddly enough that's pretty much how the majority if recent released sound to me...take the tracks that actually sound finished or outtake bound from 5 albums any you could probably make 1 Prince album of the quality we subconciously expect from him. What I find hard to comprehend is the Funky guitar, the energy etc for which he campaigns so hard and displays live to legendary standards takes a backseat on many albums now for paperthin ...stuff

Criticism that Prince's studio tracks are flat and dead compared to his pliveplaying were common in the 80's too. From pros in the biz!

This has always been true, except maybe for the mid-90's were the recorded stuff (esp the TGE era) was actually inspired and alive, probably because the anger and frustration were REAL and therefore REAL motivators.....

Eh IDK when I listened to it in sequence (because that is how it was) I just got pissed off that I couldn't skip to the song I wanted to hear right away. To me it's another prince album with some good , some bad, and some "wtf? did he really just say that?" material. but I do loveit

eelco said:

ufoclub said:

Honestly I don't think Lovesexy is his creativer peak, or even that successful. I do admire it's concept, but I think Black Album was a more successful solid album. Lovesexy sounds rushed and so ornate and often too silly in melody.

Plus, he fucked up what I think is his creative highest point sonically "The Ball" and converted it, in a mad rush, into "Eye No" which is inferior to my ears.

People complain about a "plastic sound" now, but I think Lovesexy suffers from a plastic attitude of melody and layering even if it's not the dry mix he likes now (which I like).

Don't get me wrong, I agree that conceptually it's great (and lyrically). And theart direction is GREAT.

But I definitely agree with the band members like Eric Leeds that were very disappointed but by how it came out vs how it sounded when they had recorded the bare bones tracks.

I suspect that the minimal dry production that he does now is what Eric heard when he was laying in his parts for Lovesexy, before Prince went hyperactive with keyboard embelishments, samples, counter melodies, and effects and reverb. Eric Leeds said he really thought it was a tough funky album before Prince frosted it with so many quick layers and a plastic knife.

Listen to how epic and imaginative the production and mix of "The Ball" is! Yet it all works together in with a lot of layers. That's because I think he took his time.

That's absolutely spot on and EXACTLY how I feel 'bout this record! (and probably why I almost exclusively listen to outtakes and alternates)

Meeeeee too. The production on the album just totally does not do it for me and I constantly hear demo and alternate versions of those songs and think "wait, I really dig a LOT of songs on that album. Maybe I really really like that album?" but then I put on the actual album and... meh...

Meeeeee too. The production on the album just totally does not do it for me and I constantly hear demo and alternate versions of those songs and think "wait, I really dig a LOT of songs on that album. Maybe I really really like that album?" but then I put on the actual album and... meh...

Damb, lots of folks got some defective copy of Lovesexy that I have never heard. They got the one that sucks, and I got the one that was the masterpiece. I may share the opinion that it is "Cobbled" Together, but I will eat the hell out of that Cobbler until the day I die, or at least go deaf. I've said it a billion times, but Diamonds And Pears uh...Pearls sold more than Lovesexy and Lotus Flow3r combined. I think DAP is one of Prince's bottom 3...just above New Power Soul, and MPLS Sound. I don't really hate any of his albums, but something's gotta be at the bottom, and I will be dambed if Lovesexy ain't in the top 10.

ufoclub said:

I think Black Album was a more successful solid album.

LoveSexy is the one for me because it made me a Prince fan. I haven't listened to it in some time, but I know that when I will, I will enjoy it again. No matter what you may think of its production, its concept or its song quality, it's an unique and inspired album. A truly original work of art.

thedance said:

The LOVESEXY cover pic is classic...

[img:$uid]http://a.imageshack.us/img823/8532/lovesexy.png[/img:$uid]

No need to feel offended, this pic is ART.....

Couldn't agree more. The album cover AND the cd is his best ever. He's got some close 2nd's, but Lovesexy is the album only Prince could make. Timeless, spiritual, rattles your bones...

P put it best: "This is not music, this is a trip."

Yep.

ufoclub said:

Honestly I don't think Lovesexy is his creativer peak, or even that successful. I do admire it's concept, but I think Black Album was a more successful solid album. Lovesexy sounds rushed and so ornate and often too silly in melody.

Plus, he fucked up what I think is his creative highest point sonically "The Ball" and converted it, in a mad rush, into "Eye No" which is inferior to my ears.

People complain about a "plastic sound" now, but I think Lovesexy suffers from a plastic attitude of melody and layering even if it's not the dry mix he likes now (which I like).

Don't get me wrong, I agree that conceptually it's great (and lyrically). And theart direction is GREAT.

But I definitely agree with the band members like Eric Leeds that were very disappointed but by how it came out vs how it sounded when they had recorded the bare bones tracks.

I suspect that the minimal dry production that he does now is what Eric heard when he was laying in his parts for Lovesexy, before Prince went hyperactive with keyboard embelishments, samples, counter melodies, and effects and reverb. Eric Leeds said he really thought it was a tough funky album before Prince frosted it with so many quick layers and a plastic knife.

Listen to how epic and imaginative the production and mix of "The Ball" is! Yet it all works together in with a lot of layers. That's because I think he took his time.

I can't stand "The Ball" and feel it's a goofy, meandering mess.

"Eye No" was one of my first favorite Prince songs.

As far as I know, Eric Leeds has only made comment on the change from "The Ball" to "Eye No" and has made no comments about how that feeling extended to the rest of the album.

LoveSexy ties with SOTT for favorite album, for me. This album is full of introspection, observation, commitment, love, and self consciousness. It's great to hear SOTT and then go right to LoveSexy to hear the dramatic maturation of his sound and how complex it got. Plus, you can see him carrying on the new guitar techniques that he started messing with on the SOTT tour.

Marrk said:

Listening to it in sequence is all i've ever done. Same for all his 80's albums. I can't recall ever putting one of those albums on with the sole intent of listening to one track here and there.

Just my opinion, but Lovesexy is his creative peak. Then on it was downwards or gravy, depending on how i feel.

Spinlight said:

ufoclub said:

Honestly I don't think Lovesexy is his creativer peak, or even that successful. I do admire it's concept, but I think Black Album was a more successful solid album. Lovesexy sounds rushed and so ornate and often too silly in melody.

Plus, he fucked up what I think is his creative highest point sonically "The Ball" and converted it, in a mad rush, into "Eye No" which is inferior to my ears.

People complain about a "plastic sound" now, but I think Lovesexy suffers from a plastic attitude of melody and layering even if it's not the dry mix he likes now (which I like).

Don't get me wrong, I agree that conceptually it's great (and lyrically). And theart direction is GREAT.

But I definitely agree with the band members like Eric Leeds that were very disappointed but by how it came out vs how it sounded when they had recorded the bare bones tracks.

I suspect that the minimal dry production that he does now is what Eric heard when he was laying in his parts for Lovesexy, before Prince went hyperactive with keyboard embelishments, samples, counter melodies, and effects and reverb. Eric Leeds said he really thought it was a tough funky album before Prince frosted it with so many quick layers and a plastic knife.

Listen to how epic and imaginative the production and mix of "The Ball" is! Yet it all works together in with a lot of layers. That's because I think he took his time.

I can't stand "The Ball" and feel it's a goofy, meandering mess.

agree. had SOTT been released as the 3 disc CB, "The Ball" would have been the one track everyone hates 23 years later. it just isn't very good. it gets a pass now just because it's unreleased. "Eye No" was a major improvement and one of the few songs that benefits from the problem I pointed out in my earlier comments about the sound being overly cluttered but simultaneously lightweight. it actually works on this track.

'Lovesexy' is one of my favorite Prince albums.I think it's a masterpiece.The only song that doesn't do much for me is "Dance On".

I especially love the title track it's classic Prince.Not releasing it as a single is one of Prince's biggest career mistakes.

errant said:

Spinlight said:

I can't stand "The Ball" and feel it's a goofy, meandering mess.

agree. had SOTT been released as the 3 disc CB, "The Ball" would have been the one track everyone hates 23 years later. it just isn't very good. it gets a pass now just because it's unreleased. "Eye No" was a major improvement and one of the few songs that benefits from the problem I pointed out in my earlier comments about the sound being overly cluttered but simultaneously lightweight. it actually works on this track.

I love "Eye No" but I think it's a little too cluttered.There are too many things going on at the same time and the message gets lost,especially during the last part.Too many voices and horns.

errant said:

Spinlight said:

I can't stand "The Ball" and feel it's a goofy, meandering mess.

agree. had SOTT been released as the 3 disc CB, "The Ball" would have been the one track everyone hates 23 years later. it just isn't very good. it gets a pass now just because it's unreleased. "Eye No" was a major improvement and one of the few songs that benefits from the problem I pointed out in my earlier comments about the sound being overly cluttered but simultaneously lightweight. it actually works on this track.

Hilarious, because to me, Eye No is the meandering mess... The Ball is a thick slab of psychodelic 60's backward scifi funk with a completely cohesive arrangement. Eye No's arrangement is clashing in a bad way to my ears, all though I appreciate the musical concept. Actually Alphabet St also has that clashing arrangement which I think prevented it from being cool to many ears during it's release.

ufoclub said:

errant said:

agree. had SOTT been released as the 3 disc CB, "The Ball" would have been the one track everyone hates 23 years later. it just isn't very good. it gets a pass now just because it's unreleased. "Eye No" was a major improvement and one of the few songs that benefits from the problem I pointed out in my earlier comments about the sound being overly cluttered but simultaneously lightweight. it actually works on this track.

Hilarious, because to me, Eye No is the meandering mess... The Ball is a thick slab of psychodelic 60's backward scifi funk with a completely cohesive arrangement. Eye No's arrangement is clashing in a bad way to my ears, all though I appreciate the musical concept. Actually Alphabet St also has that clashing arrangement which I think prevented it from being cool to many ears during it's release.

can you even tell me what "The Ball" is about? I mean, I can read the lyrics, but it adds up to a whole lot of nothing. and for the kind of song it is, it's REALLY out of place where he put it, smack dab in the middle of the set, disc 2, side 2 is really weird for a "welcome to my party" track. and the melody is obscured by its meandering. it just doesn't really ever gel as a song the way the same basics did for "Eye No"

SoulAlive said:

'Lovesexy' is one of my favorite Prince albums.I think it's a masterpiece.The only song that doesn't do much for me is "Dance On".

I especially love the title track it's classic Prince.Not releasing it as a single is one of Prince's biggest career mistakes.

My gut tells me the media would've said it was too much like "1999" (the song) - which I read in a couple reviews around the time Lovesexy was released - thus making it appear that Prince had simply copied a hit song from his past. I can see what these critics meant, but it's a very different song altogether.

errant said:

ufoclub said:

Hilarious, because to me, Eye No is the meandering mess... The Ball is a thick slab of psychodelic 60's backward scifi funk with a completely cohesive arrangement. Eye No's arrangement is clashing in a bad way to my ears, all though I appreciate the musical concept. Actually Alphabet St also has that clashing arrangement which I think prevented it from being cool to many ears during it's release.

can you even tell me what "The Ball" is about? I mean, I can read the lyrics, but it adds up to a whole lot of nothing. and for the kind of song it is, it's REALLY out of place where he put it, smack dab in the middle of the set, disc 2, side 2 is really weird for a "welcome to my party" track. and the melody is obscured by its meandering. it just doesn't really ever gel as a song the way the same basics did for "Eye No"

The Ball is like the secret party in the middle of album that you are privy too. (You were invited in the lyrics of Hot Thing) Imagine if, as you approached the Crystal Ball (like Prince does with Cat in the concert movie), and looked into it... you see and hear "The Ball"... thousands of people dancing in some nocturnal infiinite party in a vast dreamlike chamber. This huge space is filled with a vortex of crowd noice, backwards guitar, thick funk rhythm, glass Coke bottle hits and rolls, and the falsetto call of some deity in the eye of an apparant slow motion hurricane.

A similar concept was sped up and turned into the more overtly sexual and monstrous energy of "Le Grind".

The song 3121 is another variation: a bit more Alice in Wonderland (I'd like to cut a video for 3121 from clips of "Pan's Labryinth"). And of course Eye No is the same beat used for a more personal churchlike message with a smaller party of people playing in any voice (even off key) at the top of their lungs/instruments in a clashing spastic rapturous electro funk stomp.

But personally coming from the fact that I think one of the most beautiful mixes of sound in a pop song history is "Strawberry Fields Forever"... I prefer "The Ball" which has a similar tone to my ears. It's about epic psychedelia, a big dark secret party. Listen to Strawberry Fields in headphones and then listen to a good copy of The Ball. It's a similar sound for a different genre of song. Both achieve a sense of epic dream.

PS to bring it down to a single abstract tone... it's all about that last sound at the very end of "I Could Never Take the Place of Your Man"... that distant but warm fuzzy tone... like a mantra drone. That's a cool sound that Prince played around with a lot back then. But Lovesexy dropped it in favor of clear high keyboard voices.

[Edited 8/9/10 13:46pm]

ufoclub said:

Honestly I don't think Lovesexy is his creativer peak, or even that successful. I do admire it's concept, but I think Black Album was a more successful solid album. Lovesexy sounds rushed and so ornate and often too silly in melody.

Plus, he fucked up what I think is his creative highest point sonically "The Ball" and converted it, in a mad rush, into "Eye No" which is inferior to my ears.

People complain about a "plastic sound" now, but I think Lovesexy suffers from a plastic attitude of melody and layering even if it's not the dry mix he likes now (which I like).

Don't get me wrong, I agree that conceptually it's great (and lyrically). And theart direction is GREAT.

But I definitely agree with the band members like Eric Leeds that were very disappointed but by how it came out vs how it sounded when they had recorded the bare bones tracks.

I suspect that the minimal dry production that he does now is what Eric heard when he was laying in his parts for Lovesexy, before Prince went hyperactive with keyboard embelishments, samples, counter melodies, and effects and reverb. Eric Leeds said he really thought it was a tough funky album before Prince frosted it with so many quick layers and a plastic knife.

Listen to how epic and imaginative the production and mix of "The Ball" is! Yet it all works together in with a lot of layers. That's because I think he took his time.

Good post. Although I don't agree with everything (or do agree, but have a different feeling about it) you know what you're talking about; mainly musically. There's not enough people on here who'd really know what you're talking about and posts like these are what I originally was hoping to read when I first joined the org.

Dave1992 said:

Number23 said:

Dave1992 said:

Good post. Although I don't agree with everything (or do agree, but have a different feeling about it) you know what you're talking about; mainly musically. There's not enough people on here who'd really know what you're talking about and posts like these are what I originally was hoping to read when I first joined the org.

Ha! There was a fantastic thread a few weeks back where RealMusician was having a debate with some other serious head about the quality of Prince's recent material - it was both mind-expanding and life-affirming in its detailed, highly technical explanations and critiques of Prince's musicality. I wish there was more like it here - or anywhere. Many moons ago here I used to post long, winding, highly self-indulgent rants about certain songs and albums, critiquing each harmonic shift, arrangement choice and layering...but I just don't anymore. I get a perverted pleasure keeping my personal reveletions to myself now, I guess.

Thank you. Now I'm quite fucking gutted I missed that.

Talking about harmonic shifts, I love that you love The Grand Progression. For that I'd take you even without your cheekbones.

boo hoo.....why is Princey not doing everything for the USa.......boo hoo.........we are the centre of the universe.....boo hoo....what is it about those damn Europeans.......boo hoo.....the end of the world is upon us.....

ufoclub said:

errant said:

can you even tell me what "The Ball" is about? I mean, I can read the lyrics, but it adds up to a whole lot of nothing. and for the kind of song it is, it's REALLY out of place where he put it, smack dab in the middle of the set, disc 2, side 2 is really weird for a "welcome to my party" track. and the melody is obscured by its meandering. it just doesn't really ever gel as a song the way the same basics did for "Eye No"

The Ball is like the secret party in the middle of album that you are privy too. (You were invited in the lyrics of Hot Thing) Imagine if, as you approached the Crystal Ball (like Prince does with Cat in the concert movie), and looked into it... you see and hear "The Ball"... thousands of people dancing in some nocturnal infiinite party in a vast dreamlike chamber. This huge space is filled with a vortex of crowd noice, backwards guitar, thick funk rhythm, glass Coke bottle hits and rolls, and the falsetto call of some deity in the eye of an apparant slow motion hurricane.

A similar concept was sped up and turned into the more overtly sexual and monstrous energy of "Le Grind".

The song 3121 is another variation: a bit more Alice in Wonderland (I'd like to cut a video for 3121 from clips of "Pan's Labryinth"). And of course Eye No is the same beat used for a more personal churchlike message with a smaller party of people playing in any voice (even off key) at the top of their lungs/instruments in a clashing spastic rapturous electro funk stomp.

But personally coming from the fact that I think one of the most beautiful mixes of sound in a pop song history is "Strawberry Fields Forever"... I prefer "The Ball" which has a similar tone to my ears. It's about epic psychedelia, a big dark secret party. Listen to Strawberry Fields in headphones and then listen to a good copy of The Ball. It's a similar sound for a different genre of song. Both achieve a sense of epic dream.

PS to bring it down to a single abstract tone... it's all about that last sound at the very end of "I Could Never Take the Place of Your Man"... that distant but warm fuzzy tone... like a mantra drone. That's a cool sound that Prince played around with a lot back then. But Lovesexy dropped it in favor of clear high keyboard voices.

[Edited 8/9/10 13:46pm]

to each their own. I personally don't see what's so great about and feel like it's barely even a song. it was a waste of space to me, and the most vital cut to bring the set down to two discs

errant said:

just listened to Lovesexy all the way through the other day. the more time passes, the less I like it. the sound is overly cluttered while simultaneously sounding lightweight. especially on the heels of SOTT and the Black Album. Paisley Park really did ruin his sound.

We never could agree on this.

XNY said:

SoulAlive said:

'Lovesexy' is one of my favorite Prince albums.I think it's a masterpiece.The only song that doesn't do much for me is "Dance On".

I especially love the title track it's classic Prince.Not releasing it as a single is one of Prince's biggest career mistakes.

My gut tells me the media would've said it was too much like "1999" (the song) - which I read in a couple reviews around the time Lovesexy was released - thus making it appear that Prince had simply copied a hit song from his past. I can see what these critics meant, but it's a very different song altogether.

Very good point.

SoulAlive said:

XNY said:

My gut tells me the media would've said it was too much like "1999" (the song) - which I read in a couple reviews around the time Lovesexy was released - thus making it appear that Prince had simply copied a hit song from his past. I can see what these critics meant, but it's a very different song altogether.

Very good point.

When I first put on the record, I coudln't wait to hear the title track, especially since the title track of SOTT was so great.

I was dissapointed... it sounded like a slow chugging version of 1999 and didn't seem new or cool. The parts after the song with Prince and Cat's voices was cool as the beat and instruments continue.

I just happened to listen to Lovesexy from start to finish this morning, for the first time in probably 2 years. I agree that it's fantastic, and the brilliance seems so effortless and natural. True, many of the songs weren't originally intended to be heard in this sequence, but he made it sound like they were, which is all the more amazing. His vision for the album and the finished product were a complete success in my eyes.

And to think he had so many ideas in his mind during this 3 year stretch (Dream Factory, Crystal Ball, Camille, SOTT, Lovesexy, Black Album, Rave) that it's hard to argue with the results. Perhaps much of his inspiration and ambition was his parting ways with Wendy and Lisa, but regardless, I would love for him to be even remotely as ambitious and innovative today as he was back then.

ufoclub said:

SoulAlive said:

Very good point.

When I first put on the record, I coudln't wait to hear the title track, especially since the title track of SOTT was so great.

I was dissapointed... it sounded like a slow chugging version of 1999 and didn't seem new or cool. The parts after the song with Prince and Cat's voices was cool as the beat and instruments continue.

the title track is like a wild rollercoaster ride

come on and touch it,I know U will love it

with it I know heaven's a butterfly kiss away

It goes so many places,and ends with an outrageous phone sex(?) interlude that's just crazy!