I always thought it to be controversial here to say The Revolution was NOT Prince's best band. Not sure where the poster got the sentiments from.

JudasLChrist said:

Acknowledging "White Supremacy" and still loving The Revolution - or - The not so hidden subtext of Revolution hatred on The Org.

Let's start with the assumption that America is a racist society. We have a black man as president, but systemic racism is still an issue for black people in general. Access to proper education, public safety, gainful employment and many other privileges of full citizenship are out of reach or are more difficult to obtain for many communities of color of certain classes. Many of these communities are troubled and impoverished. The situation of these troubled communities today is directly linked to the history of racism and the continuing vestiges of white supremacy in the United States.

In this conversation we are going to acknowledge that all of the above is true.

What a LOAD OF CRAP! America is the LEAST racist country in the world. Have you ever been to any other countries? The amount of racism and the casualness that it's displayed is staggering. Now don't get me wrong, a lot of Musicians and different people of ethnicity have definitely been short changed in this country, but it's not the 1950's anymore either. Prince started from one of the poorest most disadvantaged backgrounds possible and he's a millionaire now due to his own HARD WORK.

This myth that all African Americans are impoverished and shunned by society is ridiculous and IS real racism. One of my girlfriends is Black, and two of my Coaches are black, and there has never been one mention of race or any issue of anything to do with racism the entire time I've known any of them. Why? Because there's so few racial tensions in modern society. And furthermore, every single African American I know makes more money than I do. What's that say?

Let me tell you, if there's some sort of Secret "White City Counsel" meetings where white people meet up to oppress other races and divvy up wealth, they sure as shit never invited me. I was born to a Family that was dirt poor, my dad had to go in and out of AA 3 or 4 times, and my mom was a crazy, child beating piece of crap. My parents didn't help me with school and the like and my options for college were nothing. My drunk dad kicked me out when I was 16 so I didn't get a chance to finish high school and I had to get a job. I worked as a Janitor cleaning up stuff you really don't want to think about. From ages 13-18 I was soooo poor I couldn't even afford a bed, I had to sleep on couches.

Did I blame anyone else for my situation? Did I put all the bad things that happened toward me on society or 'The Man?' No, I decided to improve my situation by working my ass off. I busted my butt learning to be a Personal Trainer, I developed my skills teaching Kids Karate classes, I built a large client base and slowly but surely strengthened my hand in life. Now I live in a high end apartment in a really nice Suburban area North of San Francisco. If my savings keep going the way they are I'll be buying my own Condo at age 26. My point? Both my brothers (who were in the same situation I was) are complete fuck ups. My little brother ended up shooting heroin and no one knows where he is and my older brother is 30, does nothing but smoke pot, and still lives with my Mom. What do both my brothers always say "I never had a chance." "If our parents had had money my life wouldn't be like this." Maybe if they'd gotten a job and worked their lives would be different.

Everybody now adays (of all races) in America is expecting something for nothing. You will not have a good life if you don't work very hard and save smart. Every single person in this world who's a fuck up will try to blame it on something, their parents, their religion, the color of their skin, when the truth is they don't have much in life because they didn't have the gusto to bust their ass and get it.

Racism = Over rated in this Country

[Edited 7/25/10 7:48am]

JudasLChrist said:

Mars23 said:

Too early? Maybe, but I think you could be on the right track...

I'd rather people give me the benefit of the doubt and assume my intentions are sincere.

Race baiting is what fox news does when they try to make white people afraid of black people. I'm not doing anything like that here.

Giving the benefit of the doubt is why this thread still exists.

That doesn't mean that I can't think it's a shitty premise and incredibly unfortunate title.

i object to your assumption that I am racist. musically, I don't think the revolution was better than any other group of musicians prince has played with. in fact, I think brown mark was just an ok bassist. wendy was ok as a guitarist. lisa, ok as a keyboardist. renaldo is much better. prince's latest drummer are better than bobby z.

you are the one who is assuming that I feel that way based on skin color. I feel that way because my ears tell me that musically prince's music is more sophisticated now.

irreverence said:

I don't get the negative responses of you people. But maybe I just understand the post in a less offensive way.

I agree that "white supremacy" was long a huge problem both in western society and in the music business. Your description of the rise of rock'n'roll through the white-ification of original "black" music is correct, as I understand it. And I agree that Prince has shown an active interest in the "race issue", hear for instance his version of "When will we b paid?"

There also may be some truth in the statement that creating a 50/50 b/w band was controversial at the time, and hence he was in that sense breaking barriers. I have read that Prince was very particular about the "brand" of the band, of having people representing many different groups or cultures/subcultures. Race might be just one factor though.

I disagree, though, that it is at all controversial on the Org to claim that The Revolution was Prince's best band. On the contrary.

Not really offended, moreso perplexed because the premise of his argument does not support his conclusion.

Mars23 said:

JudasLChrist said:

I'd rather people give me the benefit of the doubt and assume my intentions are sincere.

Race baiting is what fox news does when they try to make white people afraid of black people. I'm not doing anything like that here.

Giving the benefit of the doubt is why this thread still exists.

That doesn't mean that I can't think it's a shitty premise and incredibly unfortunate title.

I think this thread should still exist but ummm...isn't it really in the wrong forum?

Wildboy said:

JudasLChrist said:

Acknowledging "White Supremacy" and still loving The Revolution - or - The not so hidden subtext of Revolution hatred on The Org.

Let's start with the assumption that America is a racist society. We have a black man as president, but systemic racism is still an issue for black people in general. Access to proper education, public safety, gainful employment and many other privileges of full citizenship are out of reach or are more difficult to obtain for many communities of color of certain classes. Many of these communities are troubled and impoverished. The situation of these troubled communities today is directly linked to the history of racism and the continuing vestiges of white supremacy in the United States.

In this conversation we are going to acknowledge that all of the above is true.

What a LOAD OF CRAP! America is the LEAST racist country in the world. Have you ever been to any other countries? The amount of racism and the casualness that it's displayed is staggering. Now don't get me wrong, a lot of Musicians and different people of ethnicity have definitely been short changed in this country, but it's not the 1950's anymore either. Prince started from one of the poorest most disadvantaged backgrounds possible and he's a millionaire now due to his own HARD WORK.

This myth that all African Americans are impoverished and shunned by society is ridiculous and IS real racism. One of my girlfriends is Black, and two of my Coaches are black, and there has never been one mention of race or any issue of anything to do with racism the entire time I've known any of them. Why? Because there's so few racial tensions in modern society. And furthermore, every single African American I know makes more money than I do. What's that say?

Let me tell you, if there's some sort of Secret "White City Counsel" meetings where white people meet up to oppress other races and divvy up wealth, they sure as shit never invited me. I was born to a Family that was dirt poor, my dad had to go in and out of AA 3 or 4 times, and my mom was a crazy, child beating piece of crap. My parents didn't help me with school and the like and my options for college were nothing. My drunk dad kicked me out when I was 16 so I didn't get a chance to finish high school and I had to get a job. I worked as a Janitor cleaning up stuff you really don't want to think about. From ages 13-18 I was soooo poor I couldn't even afford a bed, I had to sleep on couches.

Did I blame anyone else for my situation? Did I put all the bad things that happened toward me on society or 'The Man?' No, I decided to improve my situation by working my ass off. I busted my butt learning to be a Personal Trainer, I developed my skills teaching Kids Karate classes, I built a large client base and slowly but surely strengthened my hand in life. Now I live in a high end apartment in a really nice Suburban area North of San Francisco. If my savings keep going the way they are I'll be buying my own Condo at age 26. My point? Both my brothers (who were in the same situation I was) are complete fuck ups. My little brother ended up shooting heroin and no one knows where he is and my older brother is 30, does nothing but smoke pot, and still lives with my Mom. What do both my brothers always say "I never had a chance." "If our parents had had money my life wouldn't be like this." Maybe if they'd gotten a job and worked their lives would be different.

Everybody now adays (of all races) in America is expecting something for nothing. You will not have a good life if you don't work very hard and save smart. Every single person in this world who's a fuck up will try to blame it on something, their parents, their religion, the color of their skin, when the truth is they don't have much in life because they didn't have the gusto to bust their ass and get it.

Racism = Over rated in this Country

[Edited 7/25/10 7:48am]

Yeah. I guess I just disagree that racism isn't a problem in the Untited states. I live in Oakland, California where a police officer was just found guilty of 'involuntary manslaughter' for shooting an unarmed black man in the back while another officer had him pinned down.

You can talk all you want about your own personal success. You have every right to hold people accountable where you see fit. However, hard-ships do affect people. I grew up in foster care. My life isn't perfect, but I've done ok. When I first read the stats about what happens to foster children after they age out of the system (for example: 75% end up in jail at some point) I was shocked. I don't see any need to yell at former foster children who have been less successful than me (most). I don't say them "your life experience has nothing to do with your current situation".

Timmy84 said:

babynoz said:

It's just appalling the lenghts people will go to and the absurd arguments they will fabricate in order idealize and romanticize the golden years. *cue violins*

I get it already...I got it the first thousand times it's been said...and the next thousand times it will be said every single week for the forseeable future.

Honestly, it's like Revolultion Evangelists trying to convert the heathens or something,

And if people liked the other musicians pre or post-Revolution, maybe that's more of a personal preference than a preference of color. Just a thought lol

I get that some people are really attached to the vibe and the personalities of that era and remember them with sentimental fondness...no problem there.

What I don't get is why imply that those of us who differ have some sort of issue?

The look or personalities of whatever band don't mean a lot to me...Prince can change the band as often as he likes for all I care, as long as they can play.

TheVoid said:

The race card was soooooo OJ Simpson/90s

Get with the GEIGH millennium, fool.

Prince chose white members in the Revolution to break into the white mainstream market. There wasn't anything racist about it. He simply wanted more money.

Once he found out bands like NWA and Public Enemy were making money mainly off of middle class white kids, he realized that he no longer needed to do this. He discarded the revolution and replaced them with the Game Boyz and started rapping his brains out for street cred of the middle class white kids (which unfortunatey, MC Hammer had already monopolized).

It's all about money really. Not race.

I don't know why you are calling me a fool, cause the views that you are bringing up are things I have heard before on The Org, and are what have inspird me to write this thread.

You are saying that Prince wanted to 'cross-over' so, that's the reason he had a mixed band.

When I was a young (white) kid, I thought The Revolution being a mixed band was the coolest thing ever, beyond how awesome their music was. I also thought having girls in has band was super cool, too. I really believed that whole "black, white, peurto rican everybody justa freak'n" bizness. I think Prince presented his relationship to race in an idealized manner, and I bought that. I thought everybody bought it.

Only much later did it occour to me that there possibly could have been other strategy and reason for him having a mixed band. Reading people's responses on The Org, I came to find that there are a lot of people like you who just believe that the racial make-up of his bands has to do only with his monetization strategy.

That's what I wanted to talk about here.

Even though my first response was initially a composite of WTF and "that's more than a little heavy handed", I have to give kudos to Christopher for taking on board all the replies he has received here with great humility. For that Sir, you are to be applauded and I doff my cap to you.

Credit where credit is due.

Regardless of whom he hires in his band this all stems from Prince.

His bandmembers are like a cast in a movie. BUT no matter what it all comes from Prince then and now.

VenusBlingBling said:

I always thought it to be controversial here to say The Revolution was NOT Prince's best band. Not sure where the poster got the sentiments from.

Yeah it actually is because BELIEVE IT OR NOT being "BLACK AND ALL", I actually DO think The Revolution WAS Prince's BEST BAND.

carlcranshaw said:

Regardless of whom he hires in his band this all stems from Prince.

His bandmembers are like a cast in a movie. BUT no matter what it all comes from Prince then and now.

Pretty much. Prince runs all the strings of whoever shows up in his career lol No different from either Jimi or Sly lol

Point massively undercut by your endless list of assumptions. D-

pald1 said:

Point massively undercut by your endless list of assumptions. D-

Howso? I was trying to cover a lot of ground. And I was trying to abbreviate to get to the point. I don't feel I was assuming too much.

OP makes an insightful point about subconscious prejudices that have the potential to inform the actual or projected tastes of the individual. The point being made is not that The Revolution is rejected or touted based on their actual racial diversity, but based on what that racial diversity represents. For example, a dismissal of The Revolution tends to be followed by praise for the SOTT/Black Album lineup, which was more Little Richard than Pat Boone (until Lovesexy where the balance isn't so clear--is it a coincidence that this is the band widely considered to be the fan favorite?) The racial content of the argument combined with the academic style in which it was made seems to be the main source of controversy (Timmy84 & condescending ad hominem, Sweething & misguided faux outrage). People are misunderstanding what is being said then react with "is he calling me a racist?!" The statement "Let's start with the assumption that America is a racist society" is beside the point--either accept the proposed assumptions and see where the argument leads or reject them and opt out of even considering the conclusion.

JudasLChrist said:

pald1 said:

Point massively undercut by your endless list of assumptions. D-

Howso? I was trying to cover a lot of ground. And I was trying to abbreviate to get to the point. I don't feel I was assuming too much.

I nearly wept with boredom trying to wade through all your verbiage. Are you that tedious in real life? It's a sin to be boring.

Also, remember, no point is truly valid when it's constructed on assumption and speculation. It's just your opinion otherwise...and, who cares?

I don't think no one is saying the OP is racist, it's just a misguided title lol And anyone who misunderstands it will think it WAS racist hence why I said it seems race-baiting, that's all lol

[Edited 7/25/10 15:43pm]

Having a black president doesnt mean anythin. When Prince saw music, started his band he went on without bias or barriers. Thus his band was mixed genders and race. What we all agree is Prince is a genius and he has marketed himself without any favours or been dictated, he himself has made himself of 2 day. Revolution his first band, it evolved dat way, Prince was makin music long before he made the band. Look at For U, Grand Central station.

Sam 8)

JudasLChrist said:

Yeah. I guess I just disagree that racism isn't a problem in the Untited states. I live in Oakland, California where a police officer was just found guilty of 'involuntary manslaughter' for shooting an unarmed black man in the back while another officer had him pinned down.

I live like 20 minutes from you, and I go over to telegraph 3 days a week to train, so I happen to know that the random case study you just picked out is completely bullcrap. I've seen that video a dozen times, and That was obviously NOT an issue of race and everybody knows it!

First off, forget white and black. It was a cop and a crazy drugged up derelict homeless guy in the bart station. This guy would probably steal your Girlfriends purse if she was at that bart station alone, or worse. Why do you think they needed 5 cops on top of this asshole, the video doesn't show first part where this guy assulted the cops and had to be restrained. The Police officers were in a control position, but we can't really see what is happening on the video. We can't see the suspects hands. The cop thought he saw a knife.

Furthermore, after the verdict there was a riot instigated by professional race riot instigators, where numerous local businesses were destroyed and burned.

I put up the opposite point up. I think that the fact that the Cop was white and the Crack head was black made this a BIGGER deal. If it had been a black cop who shot a crazy homeless white guy that assaulted some other cops I don't think this would even have made the news. The cop would probably still have his job and at the most been put behind a desk.

JudasLChrist, people like the revolution best because of 1999, Purple Rain, ATWIAD, and Parade. the Only great albums Prince ever did after he split up with the Revolution were obvious solo, one man band efforts. Quit trying to make a bunch of problems

sambluedolphin said:

Having a black president doesnt mean anythin. When Prince saw music, started his band he went on without bias or barriers. Thus his band was mixed genders and race. What we all agree is Prince is a genius and he has marketed himself without any favours or been dictated, he himself has made himself of 2 day. Revolution his first band, it evolved dat way, Prince was makin music long before he made the band. Look at For U, Grand Central station.

Sam 8)

Having a black president does not exclude America of racism nor can racism in America be considered an "assumption," because racism does in fact exists in America. On a different note, during the early part of Prince's music career, in the 80s, Prince basically showed his fans and music lovers, of that era, that there's no limits or barriers to what type of music black musicians are capable of playing, whether with a racially-diverse band or not. Now although he had a racially-diverse band, does not mean Prince did not experience racism during his music career or his life. It is not surprising for one to believe that the purpose of him having a racially-diverse band at the time, was to capture some white fans along the way. Nothing wrong with that. It would not have made sense for him to just focus or playing to one particular demographic I mean, why would a musician/artist limit himself to doing such a thing? Prince was smart not to do that.That does not mean he alienated who he was, as a person or racially, but unfortunately many fans over the years, and to this day, want to believe he did, because of how he portrayed his stage persona to his audience. But when you look at it, this was an artist who wanted no limits to whomever desired access to his music and becoming a fan of it. He succeeded in doing just that.

The one thing it seems he did not allow, especially early in his career, was having record execs or fans pigeon-hole him into one category or music, which has happened to many black musicians and artists before him. Unfortunately, many people don't know the history of rock-n-roll and where it was 'born' out of so-to-speak, and apparently will always asssociate "rock" music with white artists, moreso than Black musicians/artists, although rock-n-roll was born from gospel and blues. Over the years, the sound of rock changed in various ways , and many musicians/artists adopted it, played with the sounds of it, and gave it their own sound(s).

In the 50s/60s/70s, many black artists were into everything from blues, blues-rock, accapella, motown, r&b, funk. Prince came along and mixed rock, funk, blues, pop, r&b, and never allowed himself to be boxed into one category. His time with Wendy & Lisa, just happened to be the time he was 'widely-recognized, as a rock artist, because he also had the movie "Purple Rain" being heavily promoted at that time, and the fact that the Revolution band members were also part of that, as well. Which in my opinion, is why those particular band members will always be more associated and recognized for being a major part of the 80s Prince era, moreso, than the band members that followed, after the Purple Rain era. But life moves on, and so has Prince. He survived without Wendy & Lisa. Although it would be nice one day if they all got back together, it will never be enough for some fans. There will always be Prince fans looking for Prince to fill a void in era in their lives, they can't seem to fill on their own. What can I say, life moves on.

[Edited 7/25/10 21:08pm]

TBeatty716 said:

OP makes an insightful point about subconscious prejudices that have the potential to inform the actual or projected tastes of the individual. The point being made is not that The Revolution is rejected or touted based on their actual racial diversity, but based on what that racial diversity represents. For example, a dismissal of The Revolution tends to be followed by praise for the SOTT/Black Album lineup, which was more Little Richard than Pat Boone (until Lovesexy where the balance isn't so clear--is it a coincidence that this is the band widely considered to be the fan favorite?) The racial content of the argument combined with the academic style in which it was made seems to be the main source of controversy (Timmy84 & condescending ad hominem, Sweething & misguided faux outrage). People are misunderstanding what is being said then react with "is he calling me a racist?!" The statement "Let's start with the assumption that America is a racist society" is beside the point--either accept the proposed assumptions and see where the argument leads or reject them and opt out of even considering the conclusion.

Oh, you are like the one person who understood me, apparently.

I have been totally confused with people's responses here, You pointing out that people are reacting to the 'academic tone' of what i wrote is helpful. I didn't even realize that it sounded academic.

[Edited 7/25/10 20:22pm]

Wildboy said:

JudasLChrist said:

Yeah. I guess I just disagree that racism isn't a problem in the Untited states. I live in Oakland, California where a police officer was just found guilty of 'involuntary manslaughter' for shooting an unarmed black man in the back while another officer had him pinned down.

I live like 20 minutes from you, and I go over to telegraph 3 days a week to train, so I happen to know that the random case study you just picked out is completely bullcrap. I've seen that video a dozen times, and That was obviously NOT an issue of race and everybody knows it!

First off, forget white and black. It was a cop and a crazy drugged up derelict homeless guy in the bart station. This guy would probably steal your Girlfriends purse if she was at that bart station alone, or worse. Why do you think they needed 5 cops on top of this asshole, the video doesn't show first part where this guy assulted the cops and had to be restrained. The Police officers were in a control position, but we can't really see what is happening on the video. We can't see the suspects hands. The cop thought he saw a knife.

This is waaay off topic, but I just got to tell you there's not a thing that you are saying there that is true. Oscar Grant was shot while he was face down and the cops had a knee pressed up against his kneck. The piece of shit cop that shot him changed his story and eventually said he thought Grant had a gun. Many, many people saw what hapenned. I live downtown where the riots where, and I'll tell you that this community in Oakland has reached concensus that Oscar Grant did not deserve to be murdered by a cop. And no he ws not homeless. He was a father and was employed and had housing. Not that any of that matters, but it shows that you have the story COMPLETELY wrong.

JudasLChrist said:

Wildboy said:

I live like 20 minutes from you, and I go over to telegraph 3 days a week to train, so I happen to know that the random case study you just picked out is completely bullcrap. I've seen that video a dozen times, and That was obviously NOT an issue of race and everybody knows it!

First off, forget white and black. It was a cop and a crazy drugged up derelict homeless guy in the bart station. This guy would probably steal your Girlfriends purse if she was at that bart station alone, or worse. Why do you think they needed 5 cops on top of this asshole, the video doesn't show first part where this guy assulted the cops and had to be restrained. The Police officers were in a control position, but we can't really see what is happening on the video. We can't see the suspects hands. The cop thought he saw a knife.

This is waaay off topic, but I just got to tell you there's not a thing that you are saying there that is true. Oscar Grant was shot while he was face down and the cops had a knee pressed up against his kneck. The piece of shit cop that shot him changed his story and eventually said he thought Grant had a gun. Many, many people saw what hapenned. I live downtown where the riots where, and I'll tell you that this community in Oakland has reached concensus that Oscar Grant did not deserve to be murdered by a cop. And no he ws not homeless. He was a father and was employed and had housing. Not that any of that matters, but it shows that you have the story COMPLETELY wrong.

Yes, he definitely has the background of Oscar Grant wrong, and there was no justification for the cop's shooting of Mr. Grant, and yes, the thread seems to be going way off topic.

[Edited 7/25/10 21:08pm]

You should know with topics like this, no matter what intention you have, it will never go off as smooth. You might as well just forget having a healthy debate about this because it will always end up being a black vs. white thing and then a moderating move to the P&R forum.

This discussion can never be simplified due to the fact that we have no firsthand insight into the relationships that created the hires and later forming of the revolution. Each member was probably hired for their own reasons that superceded race which 1 can only speculate on. For example i believe he liked guys fresh out of high school that he could control like Brown Mark and Paul Peterson. Wendy was probably an easy hire because she was always around, had a fine assed sister and came from a hollywood background that as an up and comer he had to value.There has been a long running myth that prince wanted a mixed band to be a pop star but shit you can hear that in his music. Sly was to him what he is to us and living in a vanilla market had to impact his views on presentation. Minneapolis was voted best place to raise a bi-racial child for like 4 yrs. straight this decade and that racial dynamic existed long before prince. I have a friend who played for the gophers in the 60's and he told me one recruiting trip hooked him, he saw intergration and co mingling everywhere. Prince did not covet the limited scope and lifespan of the R&B artist he admired in the 70's, he realized that a more diversified approach would get him the arena's, longevity and rock solid fanbase that white bands enjoyed. I believe what happens here DOES fall along racial lines when it comes to this band and we dont realize it. The Revolution dont have supporters here, but W&L do and those who value their input usually use it to say he was better because of them. Some black folks here take offense to that, this opinion is that of " He's been a genuis from the word go until yesterday, why is it that he was better when the white girls where there?". I honestly dont believe Prince is racialy calculating, i honestly believe that stuff thrived because he was in his zenith as an artist and the three actually had a cool relationship. I believe the R is nowhere near being his best or tightest band, but they were his most important because the movie and PR the album will be his greatest achievment. It's OK to be attached to the band, i'd love to see them do a one nighter but not in the context that it will "improve" him in anyway. It's OK to be sober and say that 3-4 yrs. of collabs cant be used to attribute two hired musians as the keepers of some secret magic unatainable to Prince alone. What i will say is neither side should be so racially devisive about the Prince story, its his; and he wrote it as deliberately intergrated musically and professionally.

[Edited 7/26/10 3:09am]

JudasLChrist said:

Really? That bad? I know it's not the greatest piece of writing, but... I actually sat on this for a couple weeks trying to get my thoughts out. I'm not trying to "race bait" anyone. Just wanted to try and have an open discussion ...

I should have ended this with a direct question maybe.

Actually I think you put your words out pretty well. I understand what your saying

Sweething said:

I find the original post and its premise offensive as race-baiting and I have asked the moderator to lock this thread.

The precept or command the poster gives is: " we are going to acknowledge that all of the above is true" which includes his first statement via thread title "acknowledging white supremacy". To acknowledge is to recognize as valid.

Please lock this thread as I'm sure most of us would agree that it is not the color of one's skin that makes one supreme, nor is it one's ethnic classification; it is however the content of one's character.

Thank you.

//

[Edited 7/25/10 2:52am]

I don't think its race bating

What was stated in the original is a fact of history.

I wish people judged others on the content of their character. Even outside of racial situations people hardly do that. They judge based on what they see most of the time.

JudasLChrist said:

Wildboy said:

I live like 20 minutes from you, and I go over to telegraph 3 days a week to train, so I happen to know that the random case study you just picked out is completely bullcrap. I've seen that video a dozen times, and That was obviously NOT an issue of race and everybody knows it!

First off, forget white and black. It was a cop and a crazy drugged up derelict homeless guy in the bart station. This guy would probably steal your Girlfriends purse if she was at that bart station alone, or worse. Why do you think they needed 5 cops on top of this asshole, the video doesn't show first part where this guy assulted the cops and had to be restrained. The Police officers were in a control position, but we can't really see what is happening on the video. We can't see the suspects hands. The cop thought he saw a knife.

This is waaay off topic, but I just got to tell you there's not a thing that you are saying there that is true. Oscar Grant was shot while he was face down and the cops had a knee pressed up against his kneck. The piece of shit cop that shot him changed his story and eventually said he thought Grant had a gun. Many, many people saw what hapenned. I live downtown where the riots where, and I'll tell you that this community in Oakland has reached concensus that Oscar Grant did not deserve to be murdered by a cop. And no he ws not homeless. He was a father and was employed and had housing. Not that any of that matters, but it shows that you have the story COMPLETELY wrong.

Quit calling him Oscar Grant. That's not what you would have called him had he been mugging your sister. As for him popping out a few kids he probably didn't take care of I have no doubt. Just Googled it. As of the time of his death he was NOT living with his children and hadn't had contact with them in a while. Why? Because he was a drug addicted criminal who attacked police officers (a huge sign someone is very dangerous, as this is an automatic trip to jail and often you get a bonus ass whipping for your troubles). Here was this guy who if you saw him walking down the street at night you would cross the street to avoid, and all of a sudden after his death he's an upstanding citizen.

Then enter the Jesse Jacksons of the world, who turn something that is obviously NOT an issue of race into a god damn race riot where local businesses (which weren't even owned by white people) get destroyed. Disgusting ass "political leaders" who instead of stressing things like education and trade programs and getting the % of black voters up decide they should whip people into a frenzy and destroy their own town. And last time I checked, 12 people from Oakland were on that jury and ended this cops career. What else do people want? Take him out to the gallows and string him up?

People just don't like cops, and relish the chance to see them put on trial and made a mockery of. Question for you? Why is Oakland still standing right now instead of a burned up pile of shit like LA was after the Rodney King Fiasco? Because the very same police whom the people of Oakland were saying were racist pigs went in and kept the peace in the most NON VIOLENT way possible. When huge mobs were raging and even hurting one another the police deployed tear gas as a means to stop the violence (read: tear gas as opposed to riot shield ass beatings, which would have been completely justified and could have just as easily occurred).

My point, what happened with Oscar 'crack head' Grant was not related to race, you are looking for racism where there is none, just as with this retarded thread revolution. Why don't you go to somewhere like Thailand or Peru so you can see what REAL racism looks like.

Fin!

[Edited 7/26/10 7:54am]