robinhood said:

totally incorrect. The name change did nothing to alter his contract with WB. I no longer desire to pay my credit card bill if i change my name to @ am I no longer obligated?

The fact that Prince never changed his name aside.

Now it is possible however unlikely that the WB contract had some loophole that would allow Prince R Nelson to release songs under another name without approval from WB. But funny thing is, it never happened. TMBGITW was released with approval and TORA TORA was also done 'courtesy of WB"

ernestsewell said:

this is an example of someone saying something and it getting repeated. I will assume it is based on the new stage name being used at the same time as the contract dispute. What they forget is he fulfilled his contract in full.

As far as his issues with the terms of the contract, he signed it and HE should have addressed the terms and negotiated them when he signed it. He got greedy and thought $100 MILLION ouu ahh waaa! But then realized that the terms were such that he would likely never see any thing near that amount.

Then he realized (after 15 years in the biz) that he did not own his masters . Then he threw a fit? If he was actually savvy, he would have happily kept making his albums each year and then when the time came for a new contract, if he was popular enough, he could then ask for his masters back in lieu of advances.

robinhood said:

You have a common misconception of the law then.

When a woman is married, and her last name changes, is she suddenly relieved of any contracts, debt or obligations under her maiden name? Of course not. He didn't get out of anything by adopting a new name. It's a mental thing, just as Boris said.

WB didn't have a contract with his birth certificate (which is a dumb statement), they had a contract with an 18 year old black man from Minneapolis named Prince Rogers Nelson. He was/is still that man, despite what he calls himself. He cannot legally change his name to a symbol or a glyph of some sort. He can use it as a stage name, but it cannot be his real name. He can copyright the symbol, or even trademark it, but he cannot use it as a legal name.

If he got out from under his WB contract, then why did he continue to release albums under the WB contract? The Gold Experience, Exodus, Chaos and Disorder, the Interactive CD-Rom promoted more of his old music than anything new. Why didn't The Gold Experience come out on his own record label ONLY? Anyone who believes Prince could do his own thing under another name is fooling no one but themselves.

It's the same idea about Cassius Clay changing his name to Muhammad Ali. His obligations didn't change because he changed his name. It was a mental thing for him. His "slave name" or whatever. However, the difference is that Clay had a real name he could adopt, and change over to. Prince had nothing. Legally neither men would have ground to stand on by trying to side step a contract or debt or obligation by changing their names. Do you think all paper trails suddenly disappear with a name change? Do you think a birth certificate with "Prince Rogers Nelson" suddenly went up in smoke? Do you think a court order (of which there is none) with him changing his name to would NOT reflect his previous name?

It was a dumb move to change the name, although I loved the symbol itself and how it looked on albums, etc, because to this day he's still a punch line of endless jokes about "The Artist Formerly Known As The Artist Formerly Known As Prince", etc. But again, for him it was a mental thing. He equated all things "Prince" with being a slave. He was for seven years (oddly after his WB contract had ended, yet he kept the name until 2000 or so - yes yes publishing, whatever). He released how much stuff under the moniker while NOT under contract to WB???? That sort of would make him a hypocrite by your standard.

Fact is, he was legally bound to his contract, whether he was Prince, , Victor, douchebag, or Fred.

ernestsewell said:

which record company released Emancipation and what was the name of the artist?

to correct and to add to what ernestsewell said: Prince was 34 when he signed his $100 million contract in September 1992. He he had been in the business over 14 years. By then he knew better.

Also, in the business world, not only does a name change of a company change any of their obligations or liabilities but, in many cases, if you buy a company its obligations and liabilities both know and unknown come with it (unless specifically excluded and even then I am not sure it will protect the new company owners)
.

robinhood said:

it was released by NPG and EMI

it was released under Prince R Nelson's STAGE name

OnlyNDaUsa said:

was he contracted to Warners at that time?

robinhood said:

No, he wasn't.

BorisFishpaw said:

ok well maybe u can help me out here.. Emancipation was released in 1996 yes? and his contract with Warner ended in 2000?

BorisFishpaw said:

before anyone can ask: TMBGITW was release while he was under contract with WB as by NPG and Bellmark Records, with the approval of WB. Simular with Tora Tora and a few other guest spots here and there all done with the approval of WB.

When Prince tried to release the Undertaker free in a Guitar Player, WB refused to allow it and they were pulled and coated with something that was thought to render them unplayable. The lacquer was soon removed and the newly playable originals are highly sought after. But most of the ones you will find are bootleg copies.

robinhood said:

No, his contract with Warner was concluded in 1996.
[Edited 5/29/10 8:15am]

BorisFishpaw said:

what about his publishing contract?

robinhood said:

That's a completely different subject, and has no relevance to what Prince
releases, when he releases it and who he releases it through.

robinhood said:

different issue. And I am not sure what you even mean. I will assume you mean that for some time after 1996 WB administered his publishing. But that has nothing to do with recording/releasing songs. It has more to do with paying royalties and dealing with requests to use and copyright infringement.

I think the 92 contract with WB was something 8 years or 6 albums. I do not think he ever met any of the major terms (as far as sales) to get him anything near $100 Million. I think it was closer to $15 Million.
[Edited 5/29/10 8:24am]

BorisFishpaw said:

Prince reclaimed his name in 2000 right? when his publishing contract ended right? which is what this thread is essentially about - when he changed his name back...

the decision he made, to use the symbol, may or may not have been legally valid, but bet u by golly WOW - it did in fact free him in so many way - ALL the ways that really count.

imagine what he could have done if he'd applied the principles of Common Law

i still think it was an absolute brilliant move - because it showed people a different slant on the issue - which no one had ever done before

and for ANYONE to say it was dumb or ruined his career - i think they are wrong to say so

if his career 'suffered' it would have been as a result of an ignorant public - a general public who accuse and mock before asking the right questions.

ground-breaking stuff in my opinion - and also in my opinion - it worked.

GOD BLESS YOU PRINCE

ernestsewell said:

Thoese weren't namechanges.

xlr8r said:

neither was . it was just another stage name

OnlyNDaUsa said:

K..but it was much more than that as it was requested in print (an granted) etc.


.
[Edited 5/29/10 9:43am]

xlr8r said:

granted by whom? He NEVER legally changed his name.

OnlyNDaUsa said:

of course not. his name is prince. is a symbol, not a name. thats why its so brilliant. it freed his essence as an artist completely, no matter what bunch of letters were on any contract.

robinhood said:

His contract w/ WB expired in 1996. Emancipation was released on NPG Records, and distributed by EMI. Prince changed his name back to Prince in 2000 after his publishing contract with Warner Tamerlane expired. Because then he "was free from all CONtracts".

However, he still had an obligation to release a few CDs, which is why there was The Vault. He tried to poo poo all over that, and Chaos, as being "contractual obligations", as if that's a bad thing. He should have touted it as "at least I kept my word and released all my commitment CDs". Also, The Black Album did not count toward his final few CDs with WB.

just curious ... why was chaos released under that symbol name and vault released under the prince name?

and then he continued after to use the symbol name ... and why isnt beautiful girl in the world included in any greatest hits packages after its release if it is owned by wb?

and then there was girl 6 also released as prince after the name change????

as for the reasons for the change i STILL think he just wanted everyone to call him the sex symbol cuz wouldn't that be cool?

i think when he got fed up with wb he decided to release his own stuff under the sybol believing he had every right ... perhaps if he knew the common law arguement at the time he may have overcome this situation ... and at the same time wb may have underestimated his AWESOMENESS in letting him release the beautiful single sans strings attached and the prince name ... after its success came the huge legal bullshit every slave master will put u thru once the power shift switches .. prince now had a new name capable of hitting number 1 and also giving prince power over warners bullshit marketing of his commercial appeal instead of his musical integrity ...

and...

i am also curious whatever happened to the string theory of multiple universes in which prince simply gave up on the public (remember when he wouldnt even play in the US) and is saving his best work for some future adventure he will take his real plans on? ... i mean all these records may simply be attempts at a little cash flow based on the belief that the public cant dig his real vision ever since crystal ball got edited and sott got mediocre reviews ..

so he said fuck it batman is popular ... i can make a lil money easy
rap is popular .. i can make i lil money easy
selling records thru target is easy ... i can make a lil money
including cds in the price of tickets is easy ... i can make a lil money and go platinum ..

but what if it is true there is an alt prince .. that has a masterpiece waiting for us ... but as u know the legal system moves slightly slower than death and it is taking years to get it all removed from his life ... but .. what if is all im sayin ...

IN General: Songs recorded before 1994 were released as Prince (Girl 6 and the Vault)

Songs recorded after he started to use were released as

it got confusing for RAVE as some songs (such as Rave) were Prince songs from the 80s.

I am so glad he changed his name back to Prince.

i wasnt disappointed when he started using the name Prince again, but in doing so it felt like he'd shrunk back into a smaller version of himself. the symbol was awesome huge.

no

TrevorAyer said:

Most likely that was a WB thing. IIRC, most of the songs were recorded while he was still 'Prince' anyway.



TMBGITW was an independent release by Prince on the Bellmark Label and his own NPG imprint, not WB. The version on TGE was a rerecorded version, and that one belongs to WB.



They were Prince era songs. In reality, it was a greatest hits package. "Girl 6" was credited to New Power Generation anyway. I believe the vocals were credited to , not Prince.


Stop that!


The fact is that he didn't overcome anything. He still had to give WB albums. WB didn't care what he called himself, they wanted the work. However, they also stuck it to him by not really promoting anything, and Prince didn't either, which is one reason why TGE was greatly overlooked by the public (they simply knew nothing of it until after the fact).


I've long said that every since about 1990, Prince started to follow trends, not make them. Interest in his music reflected his lack of vision. Both faltered, and suffered.

TrevorAyer said:

They were released that way because that's how Prince wanted it.

Prince gave 'Chaos and Disorder' and 'The Vault... Old Friends 4 Sale' to WB
complete with all the artwork in April 1996 as contract fillers. It was then
up to WB to decide when to actually release them. So they released 'Chaos and
Disorder' that year and hung onto 'The Vault... Old Friends 4 Sale' until 1999.
Technically, he also owed them one more album, but managed during the April
1996 talks to get an agreement that WB could release another 'Best Of' instead
at some point in the future (hence 'Ultimate').

Prince decided what was credited to "Prince" and what was credited to "".
Though his decisions were kinda arbitrary, especially when it came to 'Come'
and 'The Gold Experience' as a lot of the tracks for both albums were recorded
around the same time. Almost all of the songs on 'Come' were technically ""
tracks, and had already been credited as such before finally getting released under
the name "Prince".
[Edited 5/29/10 16:32pm]

I was not disappointed when he changed from or back to Prince. Bands change names or reform regularly.

Does this affect how do you organised your music collection?

Do you separate Revolution from New Power Generation? Prince from The Artist? What about Bria Valente as it come in the same pack as the other two?

TrevorAyer said:

may be the case his fame and fortune prevents him from doing what he really wants to do in the dimension he is in, but if the multiple universe theory is true, he's probably giving his music away for free and releasing as much of it as he likes, whenever he likes, under as many different names as he likes, no contracts or even any licensing, music business the way it really should be.