Absloutly LOVE the song, my fave from the piano set along with "Have A Heart". One of the most honest, sincere songs from the man,,,,,I've always loved the moments where he unapologetically expressed his frustration.

There's one historical error within the song's context though, and its not his Lincoln quote. It was the Duke Ellington/John Hammond reference.

It wasn't John Hammond who "lurked in the shadow with his pen in hand" it was Irving Mills, who later became Duke's manager after he promised him full exposure ONLY if he split with him the publishing rights,,,,,the man didn't even write a note and his name is linked with the Duke's name in 75% of his compositions through out his life.

Mind you, I understand where Prince came from when he mentioned John Hammond instead, he was shadier to his artists in more uglier ways than Irving, just read Count Basie & Billie Holiday's biography books, the man was a rattlesnake.

Harlepolis said:

Absloutly LOVE the song, my fave from the piano set along with "Have A Heart". One of the most honest, sincere songs from the man,,,,,I've always loved the moments where he unapologetically expressed his frustration.

There's one historical error within the song's context though, and its not his Lincoln quote. It was the Duke Ellington/John Hammond reference.

It wasn't John Hammond who "lurked in the shadow with his pen in hand" it was Irving Mills, who later became Duke's manager after he promised him full exposure ONLY if he split with him the publishing rights,,,,,the man didn't even write a note and his name is linked with the Duke's name in 75% of his compositions through out his life.

Mind you, I understand where Prince came from when he mentioned John Hammond instead, he was shadier to his artists in more uglier ways than Irving, just read Count Basie & Billie Holiday's biography books, the man was a rattlesnake.

do tell please, i've never heard those, also look back through the earlier pages, we covered alot of this

mozfonky said:

Harlepolis said:

Absloutly LOVE the song, my fave from the piano set along with "Have A Heart". One of the most honest, sincere songs from the man,,,,,I've always loved the moments where he unapologetically expressed his frustration.

There's one historical error within the song's context though, and its not his Lincoln quote. It was the Duke Ellington/John Hammond reference.

It wasn't John Hammond who "lurked in the shadow with his pen in hand" it was Irving Mills, who later became Duke's manager after he promised him full exposure ONLY if he split with him the publishing rights,,,,,the man didn't even write a note and his name is linked with the Duke's name in 75% of his compositions through out his life.

Mind you, I understand where Prince came from when he mentioned John Hammond instead, he was shadier to his artists in more uglier ways than Irving, just read Count Basie & Billie Holiday's biography books, the man was a rattlesnake.

do tell please, i've never heard those, also look back through the earlier pages, we covered alot of this

Billie Holiday was a handful with a strong mind of her own, contrary to the public image, the woman was a known pheonix among the men & women of her profession. Unlike most of the artists he managed at the time, she defied him, constantly.

Being the coward as he was, instead of getting his hands dirty and confront her face to face, he let an Al Capone wannabe, somebody by the name of Joe Glazer, manage her personally(the same guy who managed Louis Armestrong). Who, many said, that like the rest of the men she used to go out with, used to supply her with hard drugs in order to keep her in line.

The needle that broke the camel's back though was the betrayal by both men when she first sang "Strange Fruit". He raised a fit when she recored it, saying that she's a communist and she'll never have a fruitful career, Billie in her stubborn style, went on and recorded the song anyway, and guess who blew the whistle on her to J.Edgar Hoover? John Hammond and Joe Glazer.

In their defence though, she would've gotton an FBI file anyway considering her reputation. Thats just only one example of how he treat his artists who won't bow down for him. Great visionary indeed, but a slime spirit too.

[Edited 6/30/10 15:07pm]

geez sad, i believe it, as i said in previous posts, my expectactions of white people are dreadfully low. His image is pristine though, which of course means nothing.

Basie though, seemed to be on good terms, was this not true? Did he have to smile in order not to upset "massa"?

mozfonky said:

Basie though, seemed to be on good terms, was this not true? Did he have to smile in order not to upset "massa"?

All of them did.

But Basie was a responsible cat though, he had a FULL line up of people in his band to support(Lester, Buck, Sweets, Jo Jones and many others who couldn't find work outside of his band when they first started out), I don't think he afforded to fuck around good ol' "mass".

The Count was Lady Day's heartbeat, but they had a falling out eventuallly(when she used to be a vocalist for his band) and quit. In her book "Wishing On The Moon", many members of the band said that Billie didn't like how John breathed on Basie's neck, telling him who to hire and who to fire, what song should they record and what song should they leave out.

Their friendship took a bump when John sent them to Detroit and one of the club owners took one look at Billie and told them "She's not getting on that stage with ya'll with no dark make-up on"(being light skinned and all that jazz) when Billie tried to rough that man up, Count got a hold of her and simply said "John's orders".

Needless to say, she did for the sake of not getting Count in trouble, but after that she quit the band.

Harlepolis said:

mozfonky said:

Basie though, seemed to be on good terms, was this not true? Did he have to smile in order not to upset "massa"?

All of them did.

But Basie was a responsible cat though, he had a FULL line up of people in his band to support(Lester, Buck, Sweets, Jo Jones and many others who couldn't find work outside of his band when they first started out), I don't think he afforded to fuck around good ol' "mass".

The Count was Lady Day's heartbeat, but they had a falling out eventuallly(when she used to be a vocalist for his band) and quit. In her book "Wishing On The Moon", many members of the band said that Billie didn't like how John breathed on Basie's neck, telling him who to hire and who to fire, what song should they record and what song should they leave out.

Their friendship took a bump when John sent them to Detroit and one of the club owners took one look at Billie and told them "She's not getting on that stage with ya'll with no dark make-up on"(being light skinned and all that jazz) when Billie tried to rough that man up, Count got a hold of her and simply said "John's orders".

Needless to say, she did for the sake of not getting Count in trouble, but after that she quit the band.

good lord, i was just speaking to my full blooded indian cousing the other night, telling her i really don't know how us indian and then I said black because those are the people i've been around the most, will ever overcome the stuff that got inside of our heads. The older people are inspirations because i just couldn't make it.

oddly enough, we do the same shit to each other. I was never, ever more dissapointed than when I worked for my first indian owned business which was a piano bar. the owner was crazy as hell, and he would do the same shit Hamilton did, not let me do a damned thing other than what he said, i won't ever work for an indian again.

Lyrically, who cares? This guy wrote both Gett Off and Batdance. I could care less about what he has to say. Brilliant song.

This song pout spome people in a tizzy. Avalanche ws Mookie throwing the trash can through Sal's window. Avalanche was Ali defying the draft. Avalanche was Sly doing Riot Goin On.

I was like Prince is fucking on it lmao. He made this sweet sweet sounding song as a diatribe. Regardless of if he was wrong or right it was genius. Of course it made some people upset but those who it made upset are the kind of people who dont say anything when someone will make a racial joke at a party when no minorities are around

If Im lin' I'm dyin'