2elijah said:

in reference to how paranoid the society has become with good reason.

this topic is a reference to a prince interview tavis smiley fyi not a song lyric

TrevorAyer said:

this thread is in reference to the number of mentally ill people in the internet.

realm said:

Also I think maybe it's a refrence 2 how deep it is when u start looking into it, cuz it dosen't stop at they're...saying that the they're is the *Govt.* It keeps going into something much deeper meaning you have 2 look further than what is precieved at first glance

DWZ said:

Dale Gribble is good at that.

[Edited 12/3/09 21:16pm]

realm said:

Mentally ill can be looked at in many ways, it's a deep theory meaning if one is mentally ill it's precieved as not thinking in the way which has been said is a standard view of perception. Which is based on who and what? A judgement of personal taste, or beliefs.

realm said:

LOL I don't know anything about this guy..
[Edited 12/3/09 21:22pm]

realm said:

I like ur avatar by the way, Alex Grey is awesome. I wanna check out his artist community in NY

Thats the fallout. The govt pulled enough shit, you can't trust them. Paranoia will mess with yo mind.

realm said:

Hence the depth, one can get lost in... it's a dimension.
Thought this would be a lovely ending 2 my posting on this..
http://www.youtube.com/wa...81oooaHUQ0

TrevorAyer said:

I'm not about peace. I'm about truth, and I want to fight with you to make you see see the truth, because I am disgusted by the mass villager mentality where the most tricked and the most gullible see themselves as the most aware and the most elite.

You specifically said that the videos look wrong to you and your common sense of what it should look like, and that is a very ignorant thing to say. This world has advanced because of scientific method, imagination, and methodology, not because of uneducated armchair expertise based on your unfounded impression of what something should or shouldn't look like.

No one said that parts of the plane were not visible in the Pentagon. Where'd you read that no parts were found? There are plenty of people that found parts and debris of the plane. http://www.rense.com/general32/phot.htm

The World Trade center was not designed to withstand the weakening of its core support from the burning jet fuel which was obviously burning from the smoke and the eyewitnesses and victims who were making phone calls as they burned alive or jumped for the heat. They did withstand the plane impact, not the burning heat that softened their support. That's why it took a while for them to collapse.

Wake up. I have worked for the media, and I make media, and it's painfully obvious to me that you are blinded by the media. Yes, Loose Change is media. So you seem offended that I assume you have no have no expert credentials. Well prove it, what are your credentials? What is your education? And you give me the go ahead to do research. I'm not talking about solo work. I'm saying WE do the research. After all I think you have to prove something here. Specifically let's address your statement that the hole in the Pentagon was not big enough to have been made by the commercial airliner hundreds of people saw headed that way.

PS, every video of the Trade Center towers going down looks exactly as it should for buildings slowly losing their core and then collapsing down from the point of weakness. Exactly as it should. If you have looked at any controlled demolition, you would see that it follows a completely different pattern. Just look at some videos. In controlled demolition, the bottom is knocked out and it clearly falls downward, and controlled demolition is usually performed on buildings of a much, much smaller scale. Find one video of a controlled demolition that is comparable to the height and mass of a trade center tower.

"how about u show me ONE picture of some plane wreckage"

DWZ said:

you're right about the kids developing young being abhorrent, but why in hell would you dispute planes crashing into buildings and move to that subject in the same breath? Or is that keystroke? That tells me volumes about the mentality and mindset of the writer.

You know you and much of your family probably owe their lives to food technology and vaccines, right? And all manner of unatural manipulation and limitation of nature right?

Is it cold where you are at? How are you staying alive? Where did your last meal come from? It's probably not natural.

Nature wants most if us dead.

I wonder if one day humanity will wake up 2 see that the heart is the only thing needed 2 prove what the mind of ego needs 2 justify as a credential or expertise based on the desire 2 prove its own worth or truth

ufoclub said:

I will highlight
That tells me volumes about the mentality and mindset of the writer.
Nature wants most of us dead. (I fixed ur i) wink
Okay I'm not being sarcastic here but my last meal came from the creator of the universe and earth, which is something 2 be thankful for. The earth is not being respected in the sense that nature is being tamperd and messed with because of greed. Lack of personal empowerment, knowledge and care. I live on planet Earth, and I'm staying alive b/c that is my divine plan.
Maybe I'm wrong but I think he was just sharing how he feels on the subject.
Yes in a sense considering nature does want us dead *from what I have read* the nature we are consuming for life has little nutritional value these days. Hence again the obeseity. (projection of a belief) It dosen't make sense 2 me, why is "organic" food more expensive? They don't need any of the crap 2 infiltrate the geneticaly altered food? (projected story) Well makes sense 2 me, if it was regulated for the gain, either way. If it's organic people want 2 buy it cuz it "saves" them from polluted food, which is only polluted for the gain 2 sell organic food at a higher rate. (projected confusion)
Yes my family and me have given literally their lives 2 survive *they work* 2 fund what they get There is just a middle man involved who see most of the profit, and manipulate it for there gain because of greed. Instead of it going 2 the farmers and people who produce it for us directly.(Projected victimization) How about us being able 2 produce our own, because of lack of knowledge taught in schools and or lack of land, or proper seedlings which will not reproduce after one season because they have been tampered with 2 not be able 2 do so. (projected stupidity,helplessness) It's about being able 2 care for ourselfs being empowered and not being able 2 produce that which is so abundant if we seek it ourself. (it's in the heart) It's not falling into the game, what's been feed is truth or not. 2 me it's not having someone else dictate the how's and where's of my life and journey. It's standing up and making the choices myself. If the middle man was not there (which is a reflection of my creating one) I would be exchanging services 2 the farmers for thier work. Or growing my own, but all this being said again I state this.. for me this is about being and living the change and truth, learning how 2 find solutions and supporting that which I wish 2 see in the world, and finding ways that I can change any of the above statements of victimhood into personal liberation and cut out those things from my life that I push against which will create more of it.I want 2 find the ways 2 have personal liberation, and all this truth has been ways 2 show me how. So even if either side is true I AM making the choice 2 steer which way my consciousness wishes 2 be. Being an observer is the best path I have found 2 seek.
Sorry for going off topic, it is about Prince and if he has gotten others believing in chemtrails...
[Edited 12/4/09 0:55am]

hey ufo ... thanks for the effort this is an interesting debate .. i read your page link and unfortunately most of the photo links came up "file not found" ???... furthermore i realize i should have been more specific ... how about a shot of the plane AT THE PENTAGON not just some random photos of plane wreckage ... am i to believe that an entire plane save 1 tire burned to disintegration yet most of the pentagon remains standing even tho when the other planes hit they took down and DISINTEGRATED 2 buildings designed to withstand the impact of an airplane (due to a previous plane crash on a high rise in previous years before construction) .. now u would have me believe that even tho the lower levels were not on fire somehow the lower structure melted ??? huh really??? not on fire but melted steel ??? i am supposed to believe that ??? sorry no can do ... no i have not seen the loose change movie so please stop presuming everything and also NO STEEL FRAMED BUILDING HAS EVER COLLAPSED FROM A FIRE ever .. and there are many that have burned hotter and longer without collapse ... then there is building 7 ... the building that caught fire from debris and was not hit by the planes but collapsed in the same manner as the towers on the same day ... as a controlled demolition .. oh u work for the media that explains a lot .. as i said 90 cameras pointed at the pentagon and not one shot of the plane hitting not ONE.... why do u question my mentallity seems like a personal attack on a stranger out of what? some kind of fear or refusal to debate the issue not the person? .. u said it yourself you arent interested in peace .. well neither are those who profit from war .. isnt this supposed to be a chem trail thread yet u happily debate the towers but criticize the other topics that come up ... u must just have ants in yer pants and are itchin for a fight er somethin ... maybe u should go join the army and get yer ya yas out bombing civilians in search of the mystery elusive osama bin ladin .. hes probably on vacation with george bush. no building falls like that unless it is a controlled demolition i still stand on and believe that fact. well i should say no STEEL FRAMED building maybe a wooden barn but even that might fall over slowly one layer at a time and would probably take more than 6 seconds to completely disintegrate perfectly into its own footprint ... again this is common sense those buildings disintegrated into their own foot print in a matter of 6 seconds contrary to every building collapse in history, as did building 7 which was not hit by a plane but came down on the same day .. i find treason offensive as should every citizen ... now what about the worlds best airforce .. why was the second plane not shot down ... it is standard proceedure to intercept any comercial plane not on course as a highjacking proceedure ... both planes went off course and could have easily been intercepted but nothing was done ... ESPECIALLY AFTER THE FIRST PLANE HIT .. are we to believe that no airforce planes could reach it in time even tho it has been proven they could have easily intercepted in time ... ITs NYC for gods sake not some town in the middle of the country somewhere ... again common sense .. if something does not make sense i ask questions until i get a believable explaination .. i have not gotten one yet and it is not for lack of understanding the arguements it is for lack of credible arguement. buildings do not collapse that fast unless it is a controlled demolition and both planes and definately the second plane could have and should have been intercepted had any of the official story been credible but it is not imo .. and yes BGH causes accelleration of cancer growth as well as premature developement and obesity ... its a growth hormone for gods sake ... injest a growth hormone and what do u think will happen? ITS CALLED A GROWTH HORMONE dont need no science book to figure that out ... maybe a dictionary ...

First there were films from inside one of the towers that day. and there was NO sign at all of any of the explosives that would be needed to take the building down in a controlled manner. Also at least one of the towers and WTC 7 did not fall as if it was imploded, they toppled as if they had suffered an uneven damage. As far as falling at free fall speed-- Even building that are demoed do not fall at FFS. (which should be free fall acceleration)--they did not. They seem to fall in a simular manner as s demoed building but is there any real data as to how fast they fell?

WTC 7 fell do in part to the damage from the debris from 1 and 2. Add to that a few 1000 gallons of diesel flue spread out throughout the building to flue the back up generators. (which all had fuel lines running through out the structure.)

So it too was weakened over the course of several hours. When the fire department stopped trying to control the blaze the temperature quickly rose to the part of total failure.


As of that day I do not believe there was any such policy of automatically intercepting any plane that went off radar or had its on board tracking transponders turned off. HOWEVER, Navy fighters were in rout to intercept one of the planes. But I am pretty sure they had trued off the transponders making it very hard to track them.

Could they have done better? YES!

http://www.youtube.com/wa...n-nT-luFIw

watch listen this is no joke this is your world your life your freedom

ufoclub said:[quote]

TrevorAyer said:

What you seem to be blind to is that the youtube videos like Zeitgeist/Loose Change are even more obviously molded scripts you are blindly accepting. Do a little research into the backgrounds of these videos creators, and into how they are manipulating/editing the interviews, falsely positioning "experts" to create a sort of fan fiction you are readily and blindly accepting. Just try to call one of the experts and check their backgrounds yourself.

You state above that free falling building are impossible and the holes are not big enough because you saw a cheesy youtube "documentary" or some idiotic diagram someone posted on the web. Why don't you research it out yourself or find someone you trust that is educated and ask them their opinion.

How do you know how big the hole was? You don't. You are blindly accepting that someone said it's too small.

So you think that chemical dispersion at a high altitude would be able to dose life on the ground effectively? Do you believe that? More so than just putting it in the food or water targeted at specific communities?

Are any of you in any way educated in the medical or scientific arenas of thought and conclusion?

What level of education are you all at? I had a friend that was into conspiracy theories who was a petroleum engineer. He talked about chemtrails, etc. But I would ask him more and more and he finally broke down and said it was a hobby, a psychologically satisfying belief or enjoyment of an "alternate" reality. He said he knew much of it was bullshit, but it was fun to talk about and read about. So ask yourself this... why is it fun for you? Do you take any action, or are you just aware/entertained?[/quote

Spot on ufoclub. I have been watching this thread and reading about chemtrails as a result. I can not find a single leading scientist confirming these claims. The conspiracy theorists have little 'fact based' evidence and no logical thought process. Unfortunately, I fear that your attempt to enlighten will fall on deaf ears. I was not aware that Prince was quite so ignorant until I saw that shambolic interview!

Spot on ufoclub. I have been watching this thread and reading about chemtrails as a result. I can not find a single leading scientist confirming these claims. The conspiracy theorists have little 'fact based' evidence and no logical thought process. Unfortunately, I fear that your attempt to enlighten will fall on deaf ears. I was not aware that Prince was quite so ignorant until I saw that shambolic interview!

Don't know what happened above!!!

TrevorAyer said:

I can not watch it here, but is it the clips with the puffs of dust coming out of windows blown out by the rapid air pressure changes created as the floors above compressed the air in the building?

http://www.youtube.com/wa...r_embedded


http://www.youtube.com/wa...n-nT-luFIw

hey yo here are 2 shorties but i think they make the point well and far more believable than the "official" explaination ... the percentage of us citizens who do not believe the "official" explaination is over half now ,.. perhaps u think they are all uneducated morons too ... i say it is the other way around ... most people are educated in a very narrow spectrum when there is a world of knowledge that is being limited and oppressed. but hey watch the shorties watch the long movies do your own research instead of trusting the guy on tv who says ur crazy for thinking beyond the news script... how about you research the actual news and notice how they all say the same thing ... no one questions anything anymore ... is that real journalism?? the whole country goes to shit constantly for the last 9 years and no one reports anything substantial just terrorist threat levels ... why? its called suppression of information ... its called spin tactics ...
so u think these videos are fake ... the explosions are fake .. the news channel live reporting is fake ... the video of the tiny little hole in the pentagon on fire no bigger than a wood shed is fake ... the hundreds of thousands of people who question the official explaination are all paranoid morons right. all i am saying is open your mind a little ... watch videos if we disagree we disagree ... but me personally i dont buy it ... watch all the links pro and con ... then make u opinion ... u dont have to have a phd to be intelligent .. do u think black people are stupid just because they have had less scholastic opportunities ... do u think women are stupid just because more of them are caregivers instead of top executives for some weapon manufacturing company ... so yes watch the movies then make your opinions ... judge for yourself ... we didnt even go after the alleged "osama bin laden" that should tell u something right there ... no one investigated the WMD fraud ... why?

TrevorAyer said:

Also, Reports of the Capitol building(among others!!) being on fire that day! So it had to be???

The structure weighed 500,000 tons. Think about what is being said. Think about what will happen after a 500,000 ton structure falls.

ollytheman said:

There are many scientist and doc's who quote on the above subject, and some are for and against the truth of chemtrails existing, the question is in what form and what is the purpose. There are many ways 2 evaluate the topic at hand. again a deep theory a dimension when looking upon it in my opinion as an observer. What is ignorance? I see it's once again as a projection of another person's evaluation of another's view of preception. Which is a judgement based on beliefs and opinions. I don't understand why someone elses' opinion or feelings should be viewed as wrong or right, ignorant etc. defending or projecting ur truth of ego on the will of another shows the lack of awarness u have of yourself.
[Edited 12/4/09 12:41pm]

ollytheman said:

Again I must say what is lead? In my truth leading is the minds will of proving ur ego is the one and only truth, and that another's feelings and beliefs lack any voice or part of all the truth or answers 2 a specific topic being focused on.
[Edited 12/4/09 11:48am]

UFO,
I'm about truth, and I want to fight with you to make you see see the truth
Sorry I must say, (ur projecting) I want u 2 believe the way that I do...I think truth is found in each persons own desicion in what they want 2 believe in, not what is being faught for or forced upon. Self projection comes from the self wanting 2 graditify there own mind 2 believe they are right. I see it as choice of what is wrong or right for u and ur soul. U don't want 2 be about peace, so hence ur statement fight. Also u want everyone 2 think that they can't make their own desicions on the subject at hand from both sides again broken down into duality, wrong or right. Real or not, this or that.
Just an observation
By the way how's ur super bowl comercial going? It was done very well, love the heaven hell concept it was funny.
[Edited 12/4/09 11:40am]

ollytheman said:

Prince is obviously someone that falls into the psychology of conspiracy enthusiast category with his talk of "Stauros, somebody lied" and general vibe of his "scifi" concepts like future societies, implants, religious truth. Now, in his case it leads to interesting album concepts and music, so it's entertaining.

Yes, chemtrails are as much bunk as colon cleansing. Let me switch subjects now: Find a SINGLE gastrointestinologist or REAL medical site that supports the idea that the colon could even need cleansing, yet a few years ago it was all the rage. Slowly though the law has stopped some of these claims and advertisments.

People are so quick to latch onto nonsense and then fall into a secure self elevated state that they are privy to a higher understanding, when in fact their very faith in ridiculous source material or their unwise reliance of their own powers of intelligent deduction speak of stubborn impenetrable blindness. And even could lead to dangerous misdirection and prejudice.

Chemtrails really do exist... Is not conspiracy....
Once day about 2 months ago, they were doing it right over my house.
I watched 3 trails go up within 30 minutes.

What if half the things ever said
Turned out 2 be a lie...
How will U know the Truth?
If U were given all the answers
And U stopped 2 wonder why
But how will U know the Truth?

http://www.911truth.org/

btw canada is now questioning 9/11 publicly ...