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PrintableTrevorAyer said: Hey Ufo and all the doubters throwing around junk like what kinda degree do i have and other nonsense ... i did some more research for you
here is the website http://patriotsquestion911.com/ and contains within links to the following: 200+ Senior Military, Intelligence Service, Law Enforcement, and Government Officials 700+ Engineers and Architects 200+ Pilots and Aviation Professionals 400+ Professors Question 9/11 230+ 9/11 Survivors and Family Members 200+ Artists, Entertainers, and Media Professionals CREDIBLE CRITICS OF THE OFFICIAL ACCOUNT OF 9/11 41 U.S. Counter-Terrorism and Intelligence Agency Veterans Challenge the Official Account of 9/11 – Official Account of 9/11: "Terribly Flawed," "Laced with Contradictions," "a Joke," "a Cover-up" May 18, 2009 29 Structural & Civil Engineers Cite Evidence for Controlled Explosive Demolition in Collapses of All 3 WTC High-Rises on 9/11 – More than 950 Architects and Engineers have joined call for new investigation, faulting official collapse reports June 17, 2009 Respected Medical Professionals Launch New 9/11 Truth Group – Announces Online Petition Calling for New Investigation Feb. 24, 2009 Twenty-five U.S. Military Officers Challenge Official Account of 9/11 – Official Account of 9/11 “Impossible”, “A Bunch of Hogwash”, “Total B.S.”, “Ludicrous”, “A Well-Organized Cover-up”, “A White-Washed Farce” Jan. 14, 2008 Eight U.S. State Department Veterans Challenge the Official Account of 9/11 – Official Account of 9/11 "Flawed", "Absurd", "Totally Inadequate", "a Cover-up" Jan. 5, 2008 Seven Senior Federal Engineers and Scientists Call for New 9/11 Investigation – Official Account of 9/11 "Impossible", "Hogwash", "Fatally Flawed" Dec. 13, 2007 Eight Senior Republican Administration Appointees Challenge Official Account of 9/11 – "Not Possible", "a Whitewash", "False" Dec. 4, 2007 is that credible enough for ya?! | |
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I haven't read all the posts and links, but I'd like to make 3, sorry, 4 points that struck me:
1. TA raised as a compelling suspicion the fact that the Pentagon was supposedly hit one hour after the WTC, which he thinks is obviously impossible. Let's say you're right - that this is patently absurd. Now let's say that you're also right and that the whole thing is a brilliantly planned and executed conspiracy. BUT if the second premiss is correct, namely, that the conspiracy was brilliantly planned and executed, then wouldn't the conspiracists have made sure not to create such a patent absurdity as timing the Pentagon hit one hour after the WTC? Of course they would have! They're not stupid! SO, one or both of the two premisses MUST be false: either it is not patently absurd for the Pentagon to be hit one hour after the WTC, or it was not a brilliantly planned and executed conspiracy. Either way, a simple logical analysis demolishes the argument as completely as the Trade Center towers! 2. I generally don't believe in grand conspiracies because I simply do not believe that large organizations are EVER that efficient. I do not believe that it would be possible to pull off something this big without a single fuck-up or leak. Even if all of TA's website's evidence is correct. It's all circumstantial. As someone said - they can't even hide a f-ing blow job in the Oval Office, but they can hide this?! Don't buy it... 3. Conspiracists rhetorical tactic is usually to dodge a successful debunking of one of their circumstantial threads by raising an alternate one. These are nearly always non-connected and none individually is ever conclusive. The aim is to give the impression of masses of "evidence" which taken together should be incontrovertible. The problem is that if each of them can be individually discounted as at worst being nonsense and at best not proving anything, it doesn't really matter how many grassy knolls you build... 4. I can't really take someone seriously who can't take the effort to type clear sentences and paragraphs and use capital letters!!!!! [Edited 12/7/09 13:15pm] "We've never been able to pull off a funk number"
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"I haven't read all the posts and links" my point exactly ... how about if u actually listen or read first hear both sides then make up you mind at how absurd it all is ....
TrevorAyer said: hello ufo, i have already provided you with numerous links to literally thousands of professional and very well respected sources of factual information that directly contradicts the "official" story of the events of 911. there is an abundance of evidence contained in those links that supports the theory of demolition of the towers and the event being an inside job. your arguements not only usually dont make sense but the links you provide dont even work. your debate style is eratic and moves from personal attack to arguing that the whole 911 truth movement is just some kind of con. you have provided no credible evidence in support of your position and have ignored and avoided debating most of the evidence provided, while making personal attacks and discouraging anyone from investigating for them selves. the "official" story of 911 is easily impossible. i believe that you are nothing more than a typical debunker who is intent on influencing others to ignore researching much of the serious issues at hand for them selves. instead you encourage a conspiracy theory of your own ala the "osama" theory which is completely unproven (as confirmed by the fbi) and completely unbelievable given the facts that have come out and the dramatic contradictions already within the "official story". your points can be summed up in the following video.
http://www.youtube.com/wa...r_embedded in response to the few arguements that you have made, which i find wholey unconvincing i post the following for you and anyone reading this to watch. it details this style of misinformation perpetrated by those such as mr. ufo and furthermore articulates point by point the reasons a real investigation is needed regarding the events of 911. i hope those that find this thread interesting take the time to explore the many links posted and decide for themselves as the consequences of what may be the real truth are quite devastating to our personal libeties and freedom to live. an attack by our government on its own people is an act of treason. its not a tv show to forget about its happening right here in our own country and its real. its happening in many other countries right now and will happen here again if people choose to be ignorant of the truth. there are hundreds of thousands of people who see this clearly as a review of the information is mind bogglingly clear as to the deception perpetrated by the media and our own government. u must realize that most all the media outlets are owned by a very few and very wealthy group of people and there would not be thousands of well respected professionals coming forward on this if it were just some wild nut case theory. there is much validity that demands further inspection and action. please watch the following mr. ufo and others as it addresses the arguements made by mr. ufo and other dedicated debunkers who wish to obscure the truth in a cloud of confusion and misinformation. this is a 9 part lecture regarding many of the issues raised on the 911 debate. i believe this lecture articulates many of the points much better than i could do in my own writing, and at this point i am simply repeating the main arguements that i have already written about and provided documentation for. http://www.youtube.com/wa...bY5_qtz83M http://www.youtube.com/wa...re=related http://www.youtube.com/wa...re=related http://www.youtube.com/wa...re=related http://www.youtube.com/wa...re=related http://www.youtube.com/wa...re=related http://www.youtube.com/wa...re=related http://www.youtube.com/wa...re=related http://www.youtube.com/wa...re=related an uniformed populus is a populus in slavery - george washington | |
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Trevor... why aren't you asking me one specific question and answering the two I posted for you?
Let's get detailed, let's get some logical clarity here. Let's be smart. My art book: http://www.lulu.com/spotl...ecomicskid
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i am being detailed ... watch the lecture everything is laid out in detail ... read the info on the website ... everything is there in detail ... i am not going to type a thousand paragraph explaination for u over and over its all in there ... why dont u watch the links???? i would certainly respect your opinion more .. i looked up and watched all of your links i just did not find them convincing. can u respect that i dont agree with you even tho i examined your evidence .. i could a least respect your intentions if you hadnt said u only skimmed this and didnt look at that. so listen to the evidence and if AFTER u actually check it out u have a point to make i might take it seriously ... i mean whats the point if ur just ignoring my response. .. oh and now i've got to hit the shift key or i'm not credible ... gee thats a strong arguement right there ... u guys got me (not) | |
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Can't you just answer the two questions? and ask me one question at a time? Or make one point at a time? My art book: http://www.lulu.com/spotl...ecomicskid
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ufo. obviously we have a difference of opinion. but the difference is that while i have made every effort to review your references you have not done so with the information i have already provided and u have admitted as much in your statements. so tell me this, what is the point of debating with someone who ignores the information i supply? i suppose its like saying prince totally sucks without ever listening to any of his music. or as the case may be its like saying prince totally sucks after listening to some of music that isnt that good and ignoring the music that most respected music critics find to be mind blowing genius. all in all u may still think prince is a fraud kook who cant write a good song to save his life even after hearing some of his best work. that would be your opinion, not mine, not many many other peoples, but yours. but at least if u listened to his music people would respect that and agree to disagree. now if u went around trying to convince everybody never to listen to prince because u are just sooooo sure he sucks because you are just sooooo right ... well i'm thinking thats about where we are right now. we disagree ... but you have no basis to disagree because u avoid listening in the first place. | |
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i have reviewed your links and reviewed mine and on the whole i am not persuaded to your opinion and the links i provide are the reason why. | |
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They were cheming the hell out of my area Sunday morning, 12/06/09. It was about 10:40am. I thought about this post, so I decided to pull over on the side of the highway and take some pictures of the trails. I put the camera phone on video to get the planes trailing the chemicals. All that I could see with the naked eye was the chemtrails, planes, clouds, and blue sky. After I got out and focused my camera, I could see Galactic craft,or what some people call UFOs, neutralizing the chemtrails, as fast as they were going up. I have a 2 frame shot of one trail being neutralized, and a video of the craft zapping the hell out of the trail
I have posted a video of what I saw through my camera lense. The Galactics are helping us. The noise in the video is from the cars that were speeding by at 60 miles/per hr. http://www.youtube.com/wa..._hmNxDL92g The road you choose to walk in this life, is a road that leads to the next..... | |
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TrevorAyer said: ufo. obviously we have a difference of opinion. but the difference is that while i have made every effort to review your references you have not done so with the information i have already provided and u have admitted as much in your statements. so tell me this, what is the point of debating with someone who ignores the information i supply? i suppose its like saying prince totally sucks without ever listening to any of his music. or as the case may be its like saying prince totally sucks after listening to some of music that isnt that good and ignoring the music that most respected music critics find to be mind blowing genius. all in all u may still think prince is a fraud kook who cant write a good song to save his life even after hearing some of his best work. that would be your opinion, not mine, not many many other peoples, but yours. but at least if u listened to his music people would respect that and agree to disagree. now if u went around trying to convince everybody never to listen to prince because u are just sooooo sure he sucks because you are just sooooo right ... well i'm thinking thats about where we are right now. we disagree ... but you have no basis to disagree because u avoid listening in the first place.
I'm not talking about links . I'm not disagreeing. I'm not talking about an opinion. I'm not talking about an opinion on art (You bringing up Prince music does hit on a certain truth. The conspiracy theories are like a narrative art form, and I can understand why you like them even though they and the websites are fictional constructs that sample interviews and factoids out of context to weave a dense but obviously false story) I'm asking two specific questions: Did I provide the photos of the plane wreckage inside the Pentagon within a post here? Is there a photo of a worker making the diagonal cut to the steel beam AFTER the collapse?  [Edited 12/7/09 15:00pm] My art book: http://www.lulu.com/spotl...ecomicskid
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TrevorAyer said: "I haven't read all the posts and links" my point exactly ... how about if u actually listen or read first hear both sides then make up you mind at how absurd it all is ....
How arrogant! I didn't say I hadn't read the posts. I have! I did not read every word, because you ramble in disjointed paragraphs with bad punctuation. I skimmed and read a lot, and checked out a number of the links - not all. That's no reason to simply disregard my post, though if you choose to do so, that's also fine. "We've never been able to pull off a funk number"
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u said "2. I generally don't believe in grand conspiracies because I simply do not believe that large organizations are EVER that efficient. I do not believe that it would be possible to pull off something this big without a single fuck-up or leak. Even if all of TA's website's evidence is correct. It's all circumstantial. As someone said - they can't even hide a f-ing blow job in the Oval Office, but they can hide this?! Don't buy it..."
what about the weapons of mass destruction? ... the liars fooled the whole nation into attacking iraq based on a flat out lie ... and we didnt even go after osama ... i would say it is the people who believe this that are dysfunctional ... the liars get away with stuff all the time right in plain sight ... they are very good at acting dumb and doing whatever they want ... and people are always like oh no they would never do that there not capable of pulling it off ... there were zero wmds yet we spent billions attacking another country ... now think how that makes us look to other countries ... makes us look like the terrorists ... good way to start a world war if ur into that .. the blow job was just yet another distraction from paying attention to the real issues ... | |
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TrevorAyer said: u said "2. I generally don't believe in grand conspiracies because I simply do not believe that large organizations are EVER that efficient. I do not believe that it would be possible to pull off something this big without a single fuck-up or leak. Even if all of TA's website's evidence is correct. It's all circumstantial. As someone said - they can't even hide a f-ing blow job in the Oval Office, but they can hide this?! Don't buy it..."
what about the weapons of mass destruction? ... the liars fooled the whole nation into attacking iraq based on a flat out lie ... and we didnt even go after osama ... i would say it is the people who believe this that are dysfunctional ... the liars get away with stuff all the time right in plain sight ... they are very good at acting dumb and doing whatever they want ... and people are always like oh no they would never do that there not capable of pulling it off ... there were zero wmds yet we spent billions attacking another country ... now think how that makes us look to other countries ... makes us look like the terrorists ... good way to start a world war if ur into that .. the blow job was just yet another distraction from paying attention to the real issues ... Why didn't the gov't easily provide (plant) the weapons of mass destruction if they were able to orchestrate much grander illusions live in front of people? Why would they have chosen to look like such incompetent fools to the world. Everyone saw there was no signs of these weapons. But why didn't gov't fake it? My art book: http://www.lulu.com/spotl...ecomicskid
VIDEO WORK: http://sharadkantpatel.com MUSIC: https://soundcloud.com/ufoclub1977 |
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ufoclub said: TrevorAyer said: u said "2. I generally don't believe in grand conspiracies because I simply do not believe that large organizations are EVER that efficient. I do not believe that it would be possible to pull off something this big without a single fuck-up or leak. Even if all of TA's website's evidence is correct. It's all circumstantial. As someone said - they can't even hide a f-ing blow job in the Oval Office, but they can hide this?! Don't buy it..."
what about the weapons of mass destruction? ... the liars fooled the whole nation into attacking iraq based on a flat out lie ... and we didnt even go after osama ... i would say it is the people who believe this that are dysfunctional ... the liars get away with stuff all the time right in plain sight ... they are very good at acting dumb and doing whatever they want ... and people are always like oh no they would never do that there not capable of pulling it off ... there were zero wmds yet we spent billions attacking another country ... now think how that makes us look to other countries ... makes us look like the terrorists ... good way to start a world war if ur into that .. the blow job was just yet another distraction from paying attention to the real issues ... Why didn't the gov't easily provide (plant) the weapons of mass destruction if they were able to orchestrate much grander illusions live in front of people? Why would they have chosen to look like such incompetent fools to the world. Everyone saw there was no signs of these weapons. But why didn't gov't fake it? because they would have had to do so in the country they were trying to invade and there was massive resistance to the us take over as well as involvement of other countries who were watching more closely than the us citezens and representatives were ... why didnt we hold anyone accountable for the lie? who profited from the war? haliburton. the government did try to fake it what is sad is that even tho they got caught, no one cares ... same with 911 people know but not enough people care ... too busy worrying about celebrities | |
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There is no evidence that the WMD in in Iraq was a lie. The fact that there was some 500 metric tons of yellow cake in Iraq seems to be a pretty impressive stockpile of something that could be easily made into a dirty bomb. "Keep on shilling for Big Pharm!" |
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The fact that the US and UN KNEW the yellow cake was there tells me that they were not trying to make up things. It was there, they all knew about it, yet they kept the secret.
The question is how long could it have been kept out of the hands of Saddam and out of terrorist control? "Keep on shilling for Big Pharm!" |
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sorry i think we disagree on that and what consititutes a reason to attack a foreign country .. are box cutters now considered a weapon of mass destruction? and is it realistic that a plane full of people would not fight back and overpower people armed with only box cutters? there was no justification for attacking iraq and there was no weapon of mass destruction. | |
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TrevorAyer said: sorry i think we disagree on that and what consititutes a reason to attack a foreign country .. are box cutters now considered a weapon of mass destruction? and is it realistic that a plane full of people would not fight back and overpower people armed with only box cutters? there was no justification for attacking iraq and there was no weapon of mass destruction.
I do not think ANYONE says a box cutter is a WMD. Do you not consider yellow cake uranium a WMD or at the very least a MAJOR WMD component? and even if there were no WMD in Iraq that is not mean it was a lie to say there were. "Keep on shilling for Big Pharm!" |
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TrevorAyer said: sorry i think we disagree on that and what consititutes a reason to attack a foreign country .. are box cutters now considered a weapon of mass destruction? and is it realistic that a plane full of people would not fight back and overpower people armed with only box cutters? there was no justification for attacking iraq and there was no weapon of mass destruction.
You actually don't believe that the planes were taken over by hijackers with box cutters? I think the victims' family's would not like you very much. I bet you think it's impossible that they called on cell phones too, huh? Despite records and recordings and eyewitness testimony from regular people (citizens) that were called by passengers on the planes. There was one family right here in Houston that lost their father. [Edited 12/8/09 12:00pm] My art book: http://www.lulu.com/spotl...ecomicskid
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well i am not claiming to know everything but i have never heard of them finding any wmds and if they did it wasnt well publicised which i dont understand why it wouldnt be but i would be open to u posting a link in that regard ... i've never heard of it tho ... and as far as cell phones go there is is strong evidence that cell phones did not and could not function in 2001 at 40,000 feet as cell towers are on the ground and transmit horizontally ... subsequently they have developed the tech but not back then .. again if you have information otherwise i would be open to reading it ... and as for family sensitivity there are many families outraged by the lack of proper invistigation with real answers so it is a 2 sided coin there .. the official story just does not add up unfortunately... anyway the links i posted once again go over these points in much greater detail than i can do in a prince chatroom ... i'd recommend checking them out if you want to understand the other side of the issue ... even ufo admits there were no WMD's when he suggests
"Why didn't the gov't easily provide (plant) the weapons of mass destruction if they were able to orchestrate much grander illusions live in front of people? Why would they have chosen to look like such incompetent fools to the world. Everyone saw there was no signs of these weapons. But why didn't gov't fake it?" i mean ufo jumps all over everything i say ... if he believed they found WMDs i'm sure he wouldnt be speculating on why the gov. didnt plant them if it was a conspiracy ... see ufo we have something in common after all  | |
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TrevorAyer said: well i am not claiming to know everything but i have never heard of them finding any wmds and if they did it wasnt well publicised which i dont understand why it wouldnt be but i would be open to u posting a link in that regard ... i've never heard of it tho ... and as far as cell phones go there is is strong evidence that cell phones did not and could not function in 2001 at 40,000 feet as cell towers are on the ground and transmit horizontally ... subsequently they have developed the tech but not back then .. again if you have information otherwise i would be open to reading it ... and as for family sensitivity there are many families outraged by the lack of proper invistigation with real answers so it is a 2 sided coin there .. the official story just does not add up unfortunately... anyway the links i posted once again go over these points in much greater detail than i can do in a prince chatroom ... i'd recommend checking them out if you want to understand the other side of the issue ... even ufo admits there were no WMD's when he suggests
"Why didn't the gov't easily provide (plant) the weapons of mass destruction if they were able to orchestrate much grander illusions live in front of people? Why would they have chosen to look like such incompetent fools to the world. Everyone saw there was no signs of these weapons. But why didn't gov't fake it?" i mean ufo jumps all over everything i say ... if he believed they found WMDs i'm sure he wouldnt be speculating on why the gov. didnt plant them if it was a conspiracy ... see ufo we have something in common after all Well we do have things in common, there was a time when I was into the original conspiracy theories dealing with UFO's, and my favorite film of all time deals with a government conspiracy faking a disaster (close encounters of the third kind)... but I have also always been into science and the logical explanation of what we see through evidence, and methodical deduction/scientific method/valid research. And I also work with media, and have worked at a network newsroom and am familiar with editing things in the artful way the conspiracy videos and websites do. So I call bullshit as I see it with my experience and method of logic. It's a fact that we did not find the described WMD's, right? There are no reports of it. Now a good conspiracy theory would be that we did find them but confiscated them for our own illegal arsenal or sold them to someone for $$$. But that would just be one of these fictional theories that you could then back up with fragmented reshaped factoids. PS I have never seen or experienced a UFO myself, so I'm not a believer. I just like the fiction of it. My nickname in elementary school was once "Spooky" and that was way before x-files. My art book: http://www.lulu.com/spotl...ecomicskid
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ndigo said: They were cheming the hell out of my area Sunday morning, 12/06/09. It was about 10:40am. I thought about this post, so I decided to pull over on the side of the highway and take some pictures of the trails. I put the camera phone on video to get the planes trailing the chemicals. All that I could see with the naked eye was the chemtrails, planes, clouds, and blue sky. After I got out and focused my camera, I could see Galactic craft,or what some people call UFOs, neutralizing the chemtrails, as fast as they were going up. I have a 2 frame shot of one trail being neutralized, and a video of the craft zapping the hell out of the trail
I have posted a video of what I saw through my camera lense. The Galactics are helping us. The noise in the video is from the cars that were speeding by at 60 miles/per hr. http://www.youtube.com/wa..._hmNxDL92g Nice work u Jedi!  | |
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so if 2 neighborhoods were polled, one with chem trails and one without, do u think the neighborhood with chem trails would prove to be more anxious and paranoid about conspiracy theories? | |
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Interesting I believe the portals have begun...
http://spaceweather.com/ 
This 1 has more pics http://www.nrk.no/nyheter.../1.6902336 [Edited 12/9/09 11:31am] | |
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u cant stop us now ... we are the renegades of funk! | |
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TrevorAyer said: u cant stop us now ... we are the renegades of funk!
 In the Dawn  Past duality...We will be | |
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Again 2 have a gander
http://www.youtube.com/vi...+911+trutv U choose.. Ur Truth Inside U I Observe Without Fear Or Judgement.. What Do U See? Download Of Evil Deeds, Is coming In2 The Light [Edited 12/10/09 1:24am] | |
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purpledoveuk said: The guy considers fish to be family....if Chemi trails are teal and alter the mindset of black folks then I think Prince was sucking on the tailpipe of the mothership... The guys a nutter.
Listen to it...the US governemnt testing mind altering gas on it's own people...but this gas affects only black people. It's racist fantasy to Spike Lee levels Private Eye magazine stated many years ago that Aids was manmade in order to wipe out the black and the homosexual. So if you're gay and black start shitting yourself. | |
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These threads gone all over the shop hasn't it? Obesity? No such thing in a famine. People eat the wrong foods/don't burn off calories/eat too much. It's simple math.
People place such importance on themselves. The world will last and rejuvenate itself quite happily after we go. Unless we blow it up completely that is. Which, ironically, is what will happen eventually anyway. Let's face it, it's been rather inhospitable for us for the majority of its existence. All this talk of higher beings and God's creation, if you ask me we're far to bloody vain. | |
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If someone wanted a revolution, could they...would they create a conspiracy perhaps? Just maybe that's the fact? Motive would make it easy, I see. | |
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