L4OATheOriginal said:

I hear what you are saying, but that will be impossible. Why? Remember now, Prince has fans from back in the day (hardcore) that basically know all of his music, and are up-to-date on his music, then you have the casual fans-those that may have just returned as fans, either since Purple Rain or the Musicology tour.

Then there's the new fans, some younger, some older. Remember not every fan visits unofficial fan sites or his previous and current official sites.

.

You may be one of the hardcore fans and show up at his concert desiring to only hear his new material, meanwhile a casual fan may be at the same show expecting to hear "Kiss," "Purple Rain", but yet you both could have been fans since he first started his career, but let's say only one of you kept track of all his albums/concerts, etc.,

I can't see him doing a major tour and not playing classics

and i will anyone next me 2 screaming 4 that old tired shit and @ prince 4 playing it



sounds like it's time 2 do another ONA type tour then .

bellanoche said:

which songs did jesus sell?

stanleylieber said:

Are you comparing Prince to Jesus?

Once a album recedes to the past it can stand as a representative of a moment in time that will never return. It is released from xpectations and hype. its not judged by what's happening at its moment of release anymore (i.e. the current culture). It also becomes part of a timeline as we can now identify what came after as well as before. In essense it becomes purely its self.

bellanoche said:

not in the way you think. that's prince's game.

but i am comparing prince's actions against the standard set by jesus. you know, the guy whose name prince wanted to put on the screen and then let people deal with it.

i was responding to the idea of an artist wanting to be compensated for their work. the thought occurred to me, "how would jesus want to be compensated for his work?"

tricky99 said:

So true...and it seems some fans have trouble separating the buzz around an album at the time of it's release (and the culture it was released into) and the contents within. Dirty Mind, for example, was noteworthy at the time of release - If he released that album today it would probably be roundly rejected as inferior to his prior work.

Also, Prince has frequently followed trends whether it was the disco of the 70's, the new wave/punk of the early 80's, the psychedelic trends of the mid 80's, rap/hip-hop of the early 90's, etc... He's always wrestled with modern trends and incorporated them back into his own music.

bellanoche said:

not in the way you think. that's prince's game.

but i am comparing prince's actions against the standard set by jesus. you know, the guy whose name prince wanted to put on the screen and then let people deal with it.

i was responding to the idea of an artist wanting to be compensated for their work. the thought occurred to me, "how would jesus want to be compensated for his work?"

stanleylieber said:

But Jesus did not come to promote art or to be compensated; he freely gave his life as saviour - I don't understand the comparison.

...but he speaks from a position of authority...

stanleylieber said:

A lot of people do that. I'm not saying it's right, but I don't think it makes him better or worse than anyone else, including those who criticize him for it.

NDRU said:

it's all about context. prince talks to you with the authority of god.

It is a curious thing.

In 1996 I first joined the world of online Prince fandom. Back then, there was a consensus by a certain portion of fans that Prince had lost "it" after 1988. You'll still see this claim pop up around here now and again.

It is now 2009. As time has moved on, less than appreciated albums like Batman, Come, Emancipation, and even Rave Un2 the Joy Fantastic seem to be much more loved than they were 10 years ago.

Hell, I even read one orger who held up New Power Soul as being "better" than Prince's latest release.

Why is this?
[Edited 4/24/09 7:47am]

There was no psychedelic trends of the 80's
that psychedelic vibe came from the 60's and 70's music Susannah Wendy & Lisa exposed him too as well as his appreciation of Joni Mitchell

spiritandtruth said:

based on what you say here i think you do understand it perfectly. basically, i'm accusing prince of not following christ, but instead following his own desires (to make music, to make money, to teach people from his own understanding rather than from an understanding of the truth).

We are so gonna get moved to P&R

Perhaps I am just too dense, but I don’t understand comparing Prince, an imperfect human, to Jesus Christ. How do you presume to say that just because Prince is paid for his vocation, the only one he’s ever known btw, that he is "not following Christ"? Prince is brilliant and very successful at what he does, and is compensated for his contributions to the industry in which he has chosen to make his living.

when it comes down to it, we're getting a face full of preaching from a guy who rides to the cleaners in a pinstripe suit.

So? It seems as if you are accusing him of some sort of hypocrisy here.

jesus called people to drop everything, to leave their lives and follow him. jesus owned no possessions. he sacrificed everything for the truth (not just a contract he had no hope of fulfilling even if he willingly played along with its terms). jesus even submitted himself to being murdered.

This is 100% correct. Are you saying that Prince is asking us to drop everything? Or do you feel that because he professes to follow Christ, that he should drop everything? Again, comparing Prince to Christ is unreasonable here.

what we find in prince is a very, very rich man who is a part of the system he preaches against, who nevertheless wants to tell us how to live our poor little lives.

Yes, he is rich, he is successful, he has worked tirelessly his entire life and this is his station. But aren’t we all a part of this system... doing the best we can to make a living and at the same time uphold whatever values to which we may adhere?

prince thinks he is different than other participants in the system because he is black and because black people have historically been underprivileged in the united states.

I can’t presume to answer to how he may or may not feel in this regard.

but how many people is prince preaching to who are not beneath himself in financial and social status? even his hollywood peers look up to him. he has a long record of treating his own employees in exactly the same way he preaches against being treated by his own corporate masters.

The majority of us are indeed "beneath" him in regard to financial and social status. So? How does his financial and social status automatically preclude him from being a follower of Christ?

prince is obviously not jesus. in spite of his career-long, tacky innuendo. being supremely talented in one area (or in several areas) does not make you "more equal" than other human beings. but he speaks from a position of authority. this tendency is exacerbated by the tenets of his religion. in jw, prince has found a final justification of all his personality quirks that used to cause people to get angry with him. now he realizes he doesn't have to change. everybody else are the ones who are wrong.

Thank you, that was my point... he is NOT Jesus. I personally do not see where he has marked himself as "more equal" or superior to any one else. The position of authority from which he speaks I think is two-fold - 1. From his extensive expertise in life and his career and 2. From his faith and the accurate knowledge he has acquired in his spiritual journey. It is silly to me to say he realizes that he doesn’t have to change when he in fact has made many significant changes over the past decade.

prince brings religion and race into the discussion about music business corruption. when we compare his actions with those of the rest of the music industry, what is it he really seems to be saying? in the end his demands are no different than those of anyone else trying to grab more than their share of the pie: "you need me, i don't need you; do what i say; give me the money."

I think you are confusing greed with a desire to be treated fairly. Jesus did not say there was anything wrong with being compensated for our honest, hard work, he did not even say it was wrong to make a lot of money. It is greed and the love of money that we are counseled against. I don’t know all of Prince’s past or present business dealings, but it is obvious that there have been issues of inequities in the past and it seems to me he just wants to be dealt with fairly.

if prince really had balls of steel he would have done what he seemed to be suggesting back in 1993: he would have walked away from his old image and music and started over. built something new on the foundation of his stated principles. instead, he wants to be mega famous and respected and acknowledged and rich and in control.

But he has started over and built something new... he has made monumental changes based on his stated principles. I don’t know so much if it is that he currently wants to be "mega-famous and respected and acknowledged and rich and in control" as that precedent was set decades ago - it is what it is.

just like jesus. right?
[Edited 4/25/09 12:52pm]

No, nothing like Jesus.

OldFriends4Sale said:

Actually, there WAS a moderate interest in psychedelic music in the mid 80's and more than one reviewer of ATWIAD commented on how quickly Prince latched on to it. I know all about W&L's influences but that is beside the point as to how those albums were received at the time.

Also, Joni is not an artist associated with psychedelic music. Folk or Jazz, sure...

I am so tired of being attacked by people for 'living in the past', simple because I don't like MPLsound, or, in the past, Come, New Power Soul and Rave.. to name a few...lol. Because that simply isnt the case.

I dont want Prince to sound like he did in the eighties. In fact, one of the reasons why I became 'a fan' was his ability back then to change and grow in sound, compostionwise and in arranging-skills with every album.

My main criteria for good music (what style it might be) have to do with the QUALITIES of the music: the strength of a composition, a brilliantly programmed drum pattern, the golden melodies of a 'perfect popsong', the use of daring arrangement, the way an album is produced etc..
And in that perspective i think Prince is underachieving for...well... lets say quite a long period....

I am not expecting Purple Rain part 2, I am not hoping for the follow up of Sign of the Times, i simply find that his 'recent work' lacks certain qualities I look for in music.

I'm a big 70's 80's pop culture buff
Can you share with me examples of the psychedelic music interests in the 80's
I help moderate a group that deals with Popular Culture from different eras, I'd like to be able to research that.

Your right Joni was more with Folk music but it was associated with 60's 70's music that Wendy Lisa & Susannah exposed to Prince. He even had Joni at the listening party for Around the World In A Day

Well,

I can understand both sides, people who, after giving a listening to P's last album (whatever it is at the time), may like it or dismiss it. Prince has a vast discography (official and non-official) with such a blend of styles that you end with your own list of likes and dislikes. And the reason why you choose one instead of the other is a matter of heart/mind/soul/a-mix-of-everything.

My opinion is that every time Prince has a new album it will a-u-t-o-matically be compared with his former work, his later work, the work of all artists around him at the time, P's higher standards and even our P's standars - what we consider to be good or crap in P's world. And it's only after all this comparisons, only after time and distance, that the new album starts having a life on its own.


[ omg, it took me so long to find the proper words and type them that hey what was the question? ]