blackguitaristz said:

And "copy cat" comebacks like using things that I myself has said definately doesn't apply.

blackguitaristz said:

Oh you genius you! Thank you for setting me straight sir. Sorry if that was unoriginal also. But you do seem to have an 'I'm right and you're an idiot for not agreeing with me!' mentality. Sort of like a megalomaniac with an overrated opinion of himself and who thinks that he has it all figured out. That was my 'unoriginal' point sir. I was not attempting to one up you by using different words or responding with a more 'clever' argument or comment than the one you posted.

Its a really arrogant individual who takes their own opinion and states it as being fact.
[Edited 4/3/08 5:52am]
[Edited 4/3/08 6:43am]
[Edited 4/3/08 6:44am]

PurpleJam said:

Haha...man..dig, I can't say that I'm not arrogant but I have no problem if u agree with me or not. Two different things.

blackguitaristz said:

It is not really about disagreeing with you or not, but about a person who thinks that their opinion is a fact. Not the same thing as what you said.

PurpleJam said:

Man, I never ONCE stated my opinion as "fact". I have clearly stated it as my opinion.

vainandy said:

I really think those two factors were hugely instrumental in the audience's reaction to Prince. Though of course, any Stones fan with a lick of sense really shouldn't be racist or homophobic. Shouldn't be racist because the heaviest musical influence on the Stones' sound is black blues and rock. Shouldn't be homophobic, because, dammit, well, Mick! for Christ's sake. Even if he never nailed Bowie, you know he's swung that way before, and that wasn't exactly a big secret even in 1981.

That said, while race I think had to have played a part, I'd argue the homophobia was a bigger factor, just based on Prince's reception by mainstream (read: heterosexual) audiences for his entire career. Ever since he started out in the business 30 years ago, people have been writing off Prince as being "just" a faggot and refusing to see beyond that to listen to what he can do musically. A large part of it comes from his appearance, some of which he can help (makeup and clothing) and some of which he can't help (body language, movements, etc. Admit it, our Hero's got a bit of swish when he moves) It's almost as if there's a knee-jerk reaction on the part of a lot of people to dislike Prince solely because he's effeminate. Which is unfortunate for them, because they're denying themselves one hell of an artist. But it doesn't even really matter whether Prince the person likes men or women or both, just that Prince the performer is a big ol' Queen that bothers a lot of music fans.
[Edited 4/3/08 13:21pm]

meow85 said:

exactly...those motherfuckers had the nerve to boo P cuz he was feminine? At least, that's what some people on here were trying to say. Please...I have never heard no shit about P sleeping with another man. But Mick? Yeah...maybe they needed to check who they were booing.

blackguitaristz said:

NOt that I think either should be booed by an audience for who they sleep with. (or at least, who people think they sleep with) but if that's why the crowd was hassling Prince, they should've been doing the same when Mick came onstage.

BTW, I saw the Stones last fall. Good show. But Mick was wearing more glitter than a 14-year old girl. The crowd around our seats took to calling him the Sparkle Fairy.

combination of era, clothing and cocky presentation (no pun intended).

I think the choice of songs is quite good (only doubted Jack U Off) and there is a lot of power behind the songs
[Edited 4/3/08 13:28pm]

dualboot said:

i agree, a very set

purplepolitician said:

Do u have this, politician? The audio I mean? Of the whole set?

blackguitaristz said:

It just seemed to me that you were pushing your ideas as being facts. That was my own interpretation of your comments anyway. If you are stating it as being youre own 'opinion' of the situation, then thats perfectly cool.

blackguitaristz said:

You either forget, or are just ignoring the fact (more likely), that the audience & the world at large had by that point nearly 20 years of awareness of Mick Jagger & his womanizing ways, despite his onstage antics. Very few outside of the R&B world knew or cared who Prince was. But opening for a band like The Stones was a surefire way for Prince to expose himself to a larger, whiter audience. That's what he wanted.

People booed a couple years ago when Kayne West opened for The Stones. Maybe they just hate shitty music?

I think stones fans are real hardcore stones fans. My uncle was he didnt listen to anything else. They dont want support acts lets face it who does? we all want to see the main event and the support act is just time to get the beers.

It is my opinion and I will be careful how i put this so as to 'not offend or unnerve' that America is still a very racist country in matters of colour and religion. Prince has made several references in his music to racism 'like sitting at the back of the bus' and the comment someone else posted that Prince made about his first experience of a person of colour in a book was a picture of a man hanging from a tree.

As an englishwoman living in London I see less racism here than I have witnessed on TV in the states. Im not denying it of course exists my own family is mixed race and my nephews are stopped by police all the time, but I think our society is a bit more balanced and times have changed for the better over here certainly for my generation and those younger. Mariah Carey once said on the Ian Wright show (a black ex-footballer) that she was comfortable in London and that she still experienced racism back home for her being mixed race.

I think it is a good point for us all to realise that we are from different societies, countries and therefore histories in the org and to be understanding of the word 'ignorance' not meaning anyone is stupid but perhaps not as well informed as he or she who has witnessed these things.

Some expressions, words do not translate so well from English into Anglo-American as we call it.

I too have had a tongue lashing from blackguitaritz but now that I have read his many very wordy posts - that I had misinterpreted his style of talking (writing) as I cannot understand who he is or where he is from but I know this;

He is older than me and has seen things I have not and so now read his posts as less angry sounding but very serious and intensely thought out.

I think it is also good to remember that there are now a lot of very young people in the org and kids. Who cannot understand the feelings some older orgers may have as their world is so very different.

viewaskew said:

Look, I already know about P's "reasons' for doing the show. P's main objective has always been about crossing over. And I'm neither forgeting or ignoring anything. Like I stated on the other thread, it was me who asked The Audience, who I have been friends with, to post on this thread. Simply because I knew he had gone to the show. Long since had known of his thoughts of the gig.
But I wanted him to post anyway.

syble said:

Thank u for that. And to u, as I had stated, there was no harm intended to u.

wow,I didn't even see this other thread.Guess I'll lurk here too

PurpleJam said:

Man, u KNOW what I was saying from the get go. I STRESSED that this was my "opinion". It wasn't anything that I stated that was complicated. As some of u already know, I've played and recorded with Andre Cymone and Morris Day and have known Andre for years. I have actually met Prince. Did I ever ask P about this incident? Nah, it never crossed my mind. But if I had and if I see him again one day, which I have no doubt being our paths will surely cross doing what I do, I may. And even if P's reaction differed from mine, still wouldn't change the price of tea in China. Someone earlier gave a great example that if Thin Lizzy, a band that I love were to open up, with Phil Lynot, who was black, the fans wouldn't have booed. I appluaded this because that is a vision that I can see and definately agree with. BUT that has nothing to do with why I believe Prince himself got booed. Do I think it had NOTHING to do with the way he was dressed and him being largely unknown at that time to that crowd? Of course not. I never stated it didn't. BUT my concern and my point was what I was and will continue to drill home. My opinion is that all of those things I just mentioned combined with Prince being black did trigger the boos that he received. Do I think the fans saw P as very feminine? Of course. Folks STILL sees P as feminine. But I could careless about that so I never emphasized that. I was specific about what I wanted pin pointed. I don't condone booing anybody for any reason based off of racial or sexual terms.

blackguitaristz said:

It seemed to be more of a switiching back and forth kind of thing. Sometimes stating a responce as being an opinion, while at other times you seem to think that they are straight, actual facts. But I digress.

I did write on the other post that is very similar to the one on here, that I feel if Motely Crue had been the opening act for the Stones, that they would have recieved the exact same kind of reaction from the crowd that Prince did. Their makeup, flamboyant attitude, dress style and still being a realtively unkown act to crowds outside of the whole Sunset Strip music scene where Motely Crue came from and where they got there start at. There were certainly some similarities to cause the same kind of crowd response to both of them.


[Edited 4/4/08 11:23am]
[Edited 4/4/08 11:24am]
[Edited 4/4/08 11:28am]

Well, i'd like to add my two cents to all of this because I think my age (41) and my race (white) might be able to give a slightly different interpretation of the events.

Back in 1979, I was 13 years old. I knew the song "I Wanna Be Your Lover", but I had no clue who sang it and I had no clue who Prince was. Back in those days, I didn't have a stereo in my room, so the only place I would normally hear music would be when my father was playing music - or in the car (though he did let my sister and I use his stereo on occassion). My father listened mainly to The Beatles, Rolling Stones, The Who, Hendrix, Cream, and other classic rock bands. My sister liked the Bee Gees and Andy Gibb, while I liked pretty much what my father listened to - though both my sister and I listened to the Grease album constantly. This being said, my father in 1981 was 34 years old - pretty much what the age of the standard Rolling Stones fan would have been in 1981. Now imagine a 34 year old white man, who listened primarily to Classic Rock, is sitting in an arena impatiently waiting to see the Rolling Stones in concert. Then imagine Prince walks out on stage. Now, this wasn't the Prince of today - nor even the Prince of 1983-84 - this was 1981 Prince. This was Prince in high heels and panties prancing around the stage. What would you think would be the reaction????

Now, I will tell you this. I have heard the concert in question, and the audience did not start booing untl Prince played "Jack U Off". I think, in hindsite, that was probably a bad song choice - especially considering who he was opening for, and that he was singing this song in high heels and panties.
The crowd did not boo on the previous songs, but once it started, there was no stopping.

Now, not to piss anyone off, I truely honestly don't think people boo'd because of race (in fact, the race idea never even crossed my mind) - it was a reaction to being all hyped up to seeing The Rolling Stones, but what they were seeing was some effeminate guy prancing around in high heels, panties and singing "Jack U Off". To the early 30's classic rock crowd at the show that night, their reaction was actually quite normal. They were all probably sitting there and thinking "what the F*ck is this shit". Not a racial reaction, more a "Why the hell do I have to sit through shit, I came here to see the Rolling Stones". The fact is, what Prince was doing back in those days was as far away from Classic Rock that you can get. While on the contrary, I think it was partly his image (and of course his music as well) that led a lot of people like me to become Prince fans way back in the early 80's. I guess it's the same thing where I could never get into practlically any new band in this era while the teenagers really feel it - same way that people in their 30's in 1981 couldn' feel Prince.

Now, booing and throwing stuff isnt cool - but back in 1981 concerts were a lot different than today. Back in those days. people would get all wasted, drunk and rowdy - which is why I wasn't even allowed to see my first concert until I was 16 years old.

Now to wrap all this up, it's sort of ironic and a matter of factly, I find it funny that just like 2 years later - all these people's kids, nephews and neices (me as well) were idolizing the same guy there parents boo'd off the stage just two years earlier.

blackguitaristz said:

Yea youre IGNORANT , with all caps too!

Why you got to call someone a racist because they dont see it like you do, and whats with youre nutso hostility! sheesh

racist, rapist, childmolester, those are not cool words to spew at someone ignorantly like you do, cool out take youre meds and chill.

violetblues said:

Oh violet, don't forget to put the letter "h" after "yea" especially if you're calling someone ignorant. Because then that easily reflects right back towards u. Just for future reference. And the comment about calling someone a racist u can also apply that same notion to others that slung that word unfairly towards me. And you're really late in responding to this post being that purplejam and I had long since come to an understanding. Unless of course, your attempt is to drudge up something buried.

PurpleJam said:[quote]

blackguitaristz said:

PurpleJam Said:(quote)
It seemed to be more of a switiching back and forth kind of thing. Sometimes stating a responce as being an opinion, while at other times you seem to think that they are straight, actual facts. But I digress.


Nah,...all opinion. Always all opinion. No different on this topic than any other topic I post on or write a thread about. Funny how so many people on here ALWAYS complimenting on my posts & threads. But I'm the same cat that will fight tooth and nail on something if I believe it's wrong. No big thing to me. Like I said before, I actually dig it more when people don't agree with me. The more, the better. It's too easy otherwise. Too boring. In your case, I think u, more than anything, read too much into what I was stating. Because I always stay consistent. But u have seen where I was coming from so,...

blackguitaristz said:

Nope not attempting any buried drudging, ..just stopped at your post with viewaskiew and responded.
I haven't finished reading this whole thread yet and glad to hear things are cool with you now. lol
Oh and don't worry, im not worried about people comparing sloppy writing to ignorant thought, lol

blackguitaristz said:[quote]

PurpleJam said:

Too bad they yanked the other Stones thread....That shit was fun. Cuz it was dead as hell in this forum with folks talking about Prince in green and Prince in silver...

awruss said:

Very good post.

violetblues said:

Oh things were cool with me from the get go. Like I said, u could easily apply what u told me to the others. It's way more warranted for them to hear that than me. But,...to each's own.

blackguitaristz said:

You might want to lay off correcting someone's grammar until you stop using "u" in place of "you."

viewaskew said:

It's not the womanizing ways people take issue with.

meow85 said:

Of course not. What I meant was that while Jagger has/had a certain feminine edge to his stage antics, most people knew he was banging model after model. When a petite little man very few have even heard of, dressed in bikini briefs, lace & a trenchcoat prances about onstage, & sings about "Head" things are different.