RumAndRaisin said:

u 4got musicolgy, rave and of course emancipation bashes. and then there is the nothing good since the revolution bashers

tricky99 said:

Planet Earth is a weak album on so many levels it's ridiculous. All Prince's bad habits that I'd hoped he left behind turned up on that album.

The bandwagon chasing thing,
The bad rap thing,
The mixed-bag-of-styles-all-on-one-album thing that ultimately turns off just about everybody.
The JW-approved lyrics
The lack of passion in the vocals.
The preaching and criticism thing.
The bridge-from-nowhere thrown in the middle of an otherwise good tune.

Back to the topic...
I don't think he's put together a top quality album since The Black Album, and before that "1999" though Gold Experience could have been great, but ultimately falls short. His last great song as writer/producer/performer was "Call My Name" ("The Dance" was good too). He's nailed it live several times recently especialy his 2004 NAACP Performance.

I tend to agree with your statement.

I tend to like every Prince album to some degree.

What is missing is the hype and the old music business from the 80's and 90's.

I sometimes get nostalgic for the 1982-1992 period when it seemed Prince was everywhere, all over the radio, new singles every 3-4 months, top ten hits, dance remixes, etc.

But things change. I think the music is just as good, just not as controversial as it used to be. And maybe that lack of controversy is what has caused a lack of interest in the music today. Prince exhausted all his sexual taboos years ago, survived them, and has moved on to better themes for himself.

I think for Prince to have modern day commercial success he would have to compromise too much of himself to achieve it. And I think the music would suffer.

funksterr said:

What is the bandwagon u speak of? U say the mixed bag turns u off and that almost everybody else too, but it doesn't turn me off and plenty of people like musicology and PE (both mixed bags). SOTT was definitely a mixed bag. Isn't this really your limitation and not his?

U have problem with him speaking from a religious perspective? how about when he talked about sex did that bother u? Lack of passion in the vocals? I don't see this but could u be comparing the voice of a 20 something to an almost 50 something? Surely u don't expect his voice to remain constant over time. How does the Gold experince fall short? Are u confusing quality with peference? I'm interested in your views.

"good" being a matter of opinion, it's my assessment that he hasn't produced anything original since The Rainbow Children or N.E.W.S

I think it's called 'exaggeration'. People do it sometimes to make a point. A truer statement would probably be Prince hasn't done anything amazing since...'

If you grew up with Prince in the eighties where each album was such a major event and more often than not 'amazing' it's hard not too feel a little disappointed by what he's released since that stellar run between '80 - '88.

But that's life - every artist peaks and Prince's to be fair was a pretty extended one - we shouldn't complain, but we do and we will.

For many the reality remains - the music he has released over the last 15 to 20 years hasn't been as incredible as what he released before. The songwriting is not as good, the lyrics are at times embarrassing for a man of his age, and the production is no longer ground-breaking. I will add however, that the musicianship is at times better, but that doesn't make up for what has been lost.

I hope that answers the original poster's question.
[Edited 1/16/08 11:19am]

L4OATheOriginal said:

or the nothing good has come out since Lovesexy bashers.

L4OATheOriginal said:

U have refered to PE as both shit and garbage (with the exception of guitar and SHOE). Are u just using hyperbole are do u consider all the other songs without any musical merit whatsoever? I mean give me a piano or a guitar and I'll show u some shit lol. The gulf between the 2 songs u like and the rest is not logically the difference between good and shit. In other words the adjectives u use are really extreme. U could say the other songs are mediocre are even below-average without resorting to disrespectful words like shit or garbage.

Truly if u respect someone (and I assume u respect Prince) U don't use that language to describe art that they worked to create. Just as if a friend gave u something to read that they had labored over and u were less than enthused with, I don't think u would tell them it was garbage. That certainty would show a lack of tact on your part and probably the loss of a friend.


I think we need to raise the level of discourse here.

roodboi said:

I assume u mean as complete bodies of work as opposed to single songs? They are definitely his most "left-field" projects of this decade. But u also beg the question of what do u mean by "original" and does original equate with good? And by original do u mean it is unique to his catalog or to anybodies catalog? And lastly should he only produce work that is "original"

its obvious that tricky has also been snacking on them pig's feet

tricky99 said:

If a friend gave me shit, I'd tell them so..if they wanted my honest opinion...I doubt I'd lose a real friend over honesty...

opinions are expressed many ways...I don't suscribe to the idea that a few off color words make the opinion any less viable...keep in mind that you are asking for discourse on a site for an artist who wanted to fuck the taste outta peoples mouths...

tricky99 said:

good and original do not go hand in hand...I by no means am a huge fan of the Rainbow Children or NEWS, but to me, they atleast showed some level of effort beyond the norm...honestly, any number of "artists" out there could have released albums like his last three...wether I think thats good or bad is only an opinion...but he's capable of better, I think thats a fact...
[Edited 1/16/08 11:41am]

Since 1998...

Everything after Crystal Ball has been garbage, in my opinion.

williamb610 said:

LOL

LaLaLaHeeHeeHee said:

U want to explain this statement?

roodboi said:

I assume that for the most part we are adults here. And that if there are children amongst us we should conduct ourseleves in a manner that would show them how adults should act. And I don't believe that if a friend of yours labored over writing a book for a year and gave it to u to read and critque that u would hand it back to them and say "its shit". I think u would respect their feelings and work more then that. But maybe u would. I find that sad.

roodboi said:

Ok names those artists that could produce those 3 albums from 2004-2007. U say there are any number of them. Name them. Hardly anyone even releases 3 albums over the course of 4 years so you are already coming up short.

williamb610 said:

If that's the case which was 10 years ago why are u even here? I can't think of an artist who hasn't produced anything but garbage for the last 10 years whose website I would even think of visiting. What would u say isn't "garbage" in contempory music just so we can see where u are coming from.

vivid said:

Good post. Why can't people say "amazing" then? Why debase everything? This surely is a sign that vulgerity is somehow more excepted then appreciation. Give an example of embarrassing lyrics (I guess none of his lyrics were embarrassing before ahh u pick a year)
[Edited 1/16/08 12:16pm]

tricky99 said:

it's not about the number of releases, its about the quality of releases...so please save your lame "coming up short" comment....

and as for embarassing lyrics...have you listened to Mr.Goodnight...honestly, he should have gave that one to sombody like...T-Pain, he would have atleast made it a hit...

roodboi said:

Yes, it is also about the number of releases because it illustrates good or bad what Prince can do over the course of a few years. If nothing else the ambition to release a diverse amount of music over a short timeframe. I'm still waiting for u to produce the list artists who could do it over that time frame with that diversity. Put up or shut up. And I mean that in the nicest of ways. Many things are easily said but presenting evidence for ones' views is another.

tricky99 said:

no, obviously, its about presenting evidence for YOUR view as I said nothing about time frame, I simply stated that anyone could have released albums like those...



so keep waiting for me to produce evidence for YOUR arguement...

and what is so diverse about those albums....they are cookie cutter wanna be radio friendly r&b/pop at best...

you could mix and match those songs from album to album and none would lose their flow...

vivid said:

even if u say "amazing" there would still b division cause one person's amazing feeling of sott is another person say that hate that album :shurg:

L4OATheOriginal said:

this thread is amazing...

Fantastic thread tricky99, and to everyone that has replied so far, one of the best i have read here in a long time.

I think the point has been echoed by a few posters so far, and that is, that those of us that grew up listening to P in the 80´s were simply spoilt rotten, is the fundamental reason why many of us are so critical. I think we are just as critical of music by other musicians, some of whom are very well respected, ie U2, Bowie or Springsteen and many others....

I think since Lovesexy, P has rarely released an album that has completely bowled me over, but that is not to say, that he has not released anything good.

What Prince did in the 80´s, was to set the bar so high, that not even he could reach it again, I can think of very few artists that had such a revolutionery output, on the scale Prince hit. Bowie in the 70´s maybe, The Cure also have a fascinating catalogue .

Another point is, Prince has focused more on live performances over the last 15 yrs or so, and that is where he is at today, and there are very few that can compete with him live, if any. (I know, that is a bold statement)

I have over the yrs always pointed out to friends and colleagues, if you want to see one of the greatest artists or showmen, go to a concert by Prince. I think his 21 nights and aftershows in London proved this, at least in Europe, as Musicology and ONA proved in America.

I also think Prince see´s this as the future, like small bands and artists start out by playing gigs and selling there cd´s after, Prince after all the yrs has gone back to this form of old school, and simply gives it away. PE may not be a work of musical genius, but if you get it for free, there is little to complain about, and there are some stand out cuts on it, which are nice to revive the memories.

Anyway, that is my rant, Thanx again tricky99 for this thought provoking thread

tricky99 said:

the difference between an actual friend having me read their work and using the adjectives all depends on my relationship with them correct? those that have either asked me or in turn i've giving my art 2, tell me straight up whether it's good or shit and there is no hard feelings. we help each other either tighten it up or give suggestions on what 2 add or leave out. I don't know prince that well 4 him 2 let me say oh that was tight or that was a piece of shit.

as 4 the rest of the tracks on PE, yes i have given it both lyrical and musical merit and nothing moves me. if u like PE that is ur chose but 4 me that album lacks soul, it lacks music that's slapping u upside the head and says DANCE or bang ur head. if u dropped the 1st 5 seconds of a tune like Love off of 3121 ur instantly on the dance floor and bobbing ur head like a maniac. where as something like chelsea boredom makes me go this ain't funky 2 me.

2 some it all up, depending on ur relationship with someone, u can either b brutal and honest or u can use words 2 not b so "spiteful or lack of tact" as u say..it's all .....


artist subjective


but planet earth the album as a whole sucks imo

roodboi said:

and btw the fact that u missed that thread about xtraloveable and not adding some of ur flavor on it was pure SHIT my friend

L4OATheOriginal said:

I wanna fuck the taste outta your post....can you relate???



kids, dont read the word fuck...

tricky99 said:

so r u saying we should all b "p.c."? as an artist, 1st and 4most u have 2 have a thick skin and b open 2 take criticism. if u can't do that then u shouldn't try 2 create art. it's always going 2 b someone likes this someone likes that/i hate it it's shit mentality.

and as 4 the kids that may read these threads, trust me they already know the 7 deadly sins b4 logging on2 a site who's lyrics contained every single curse word and sexual acts on wax