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Printabletricky99 said: L4OATheOriginal said: so r u saying we should all b "p.c."? as an artist, 1st and 4most u have 2 have a thick skin and b open 2 take criticism. if u can't do that then u shouldn't try 2 create art. it's always going 2 b someone likes this someone likes that/i hate it it's shit mentality. and as 4 the kids that may read these threads, trust me they already know the 7 deadly sins b4 logging on2 a site who's lyrics contained every single curse word and sexual acts on wax  Maybe I've just grown a lot (like Prince). There is a certain level of respect for others that I personally like to exhibit whether that is in "real-life" or anonymously on the internet. U never know whose reading your words and what effect/influence it may have. Its not about curse words per se. Its about how u interact with other people and the attitude u present to the world. I'm old enough to have seen a general coarseness that's arisen in American culture. People now seem to think its "cute" to be as vulgar and mean as possible. It's "cool". I see how hip-hop has debased black America. where "brotha" has been replaced with "nigga" and "girl" with "bitch" and "hoe". Words effect people, lets them know what acceptable and what isn't. We do Prince no favors by telling the world that his work is "shit" and "garbage" when really in our hearts we know it is not. I don't know maybe we have reached a point where if u don't personally like something u feel free describe it the lowest possible way. We seem to now live in a throw-away society. where nothing or anyone really has any value. Everything is just here for our entertainment. rant over lol. i can understand where ur getting at but i have 2 b true 2 myself as many times as possible. so if i use vulgartity 2 describe it, that's who I am. point blank and i'm not one of those fans that think prince has created masterpieces with every single song cause he hasn't. putting PE 2 the side of it, there r songs i have that have been unrealsed and should stay that way imo and then there those that NEED 2 come out but instead we get a bullshit track like all the midnights in the world  man, he has such an amazing body of music that it's sad to see him constrict it down to the basics. he's too talented for the lineup he's doing. estelle 81 | |
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roodboi said: tricky99 said: Wow..that was like pulling teeth. Looking over your list yeah I can see all those "performers" writing, producing, and performing the contents of musicology, 3121, and PE lol. Ok now I know where u are coming from. I knew if u came with a list u would reveal yourself. peace.
you're basically doing the very thing you've complained about earlier, just without the colorful language...please don't piss and moan about decorum when you make personal judgements based on a list of singers....  
are you of the opinion that those three albums contain some higher level of quality and production value simply because Prince made them..That's the only conclusion I can gather...I will not argue that he is immensely talented and quite possibly unmatched, but talent and ability alone do not produce quality... I'm a long time fan...Princes music has been a major part of my life...but I'm not so blinded by his talent that I won't recognize or acknowledge when he passes off forgettable material...material that is no better and in some cases worse than anything else being released...In my opinion, those albums just aren't that good...it's my opinion that the albums by those artists I mentioned aren't that good either...I'm not arguing over talent or ability to write, produce, perform; hell, I'm not even comparing them as artists...I'm simply saying that just because Prince is who he is doesn't make his recent music anymore inspired or praise worthy...yes, even on those albums there are gems, won't argue that either...there was a time (IN MY OPINION) when you had to dig thru a Prince album to find the duds, not the gems... so, feel free to draw more conclusions....  ur words are so inspiring ..if i was a woman or if u were ..well .well ... 2 myself ...it ain't that type of party!!  man, he has such an amazing body of music that it's sad to see him constrict it down to the basics. he's too talented for the lineup he's doing. estelle 81 | |
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roodboi said: tricky99 said: Wow..that was like pulling teeth. Looking over your list yeah I can see all those "performers" writing, producing, and performing the contents of musicology, 3121, and PE lol. Ok now I know where u are coming from. I knew if u came with a list u would reveal yourself. peace.
you're basically doing the very thing you've complained about earlier, just without the colorful language...please don't piss and moan about decorum when you make personal judgements based on a list of singers....
are you of the opinion that those three albums contain some higher level of quality and production value simply because Prince made them..That's the only conclusion I can gather...I will not argue that he is immensely talented and quite possibly unmatched, but talent and ability alone do not produce quality... I'm a long time fan...Princes music has been a major part of my life...but I'm not so blinded by his talent that I won't recognize or acknowledge when he passes off forgettable material...material that is no better and in some cases worse than anything else being released...In my opinion, those albums just aren't that good...it's my opinion that the albums by those artists I mentioned aren't that good either...I'm not arguing over talent or ability to write, produce, perform; hell, I'm not even comparing them as artists...I'm simply saying that just because Prince is who he is doesn't make his recent music anymore inspired or praise worthy...yes, even on those albums there are gems, won't argue that either...there was a time (IN MY OPINION) when you had to dig thru a Prince album to find the duds, not the gems... so, feel free to draw more conclusions.... I don't feel I belittled u. If so sorry, but u made a statement that any number of "artists" could have produced those 3 albums. I asked who? u supplied the "artists". So like I said now I at least have some foundation to weigh your opinion. Nothing wrong with that list of folks. They all have various talents. There is a contingent of folks here that are accused of not being able to see that Prince latest efforts aren't "good". We all have opinions and there is no clear consensus on what's good, bad or indifferent. I think as others have said many of us have been so spoiled by Prince that we can't see the quality of his work because we expect it all be on some mind-blowing level. We are holding him to a unrealistic standard. We take for granted what he does. And yes I guarantee u if u gave any of the "artists" u listed all the time in the world they could not duplicate the contents of the 3 albums u dismiss so readily. | |
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The Rainbow Children. Did you order a pizza ma'am? Prince- UTCM | |
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L4OATheOriginal said: tricky99 said: Maybe I've just grown a lot (like Prince). There is a certain level of respect for others that I personally like to exhibit whether that is in "real-life" or anonymously on the internet. U never know whose reading your words and what effect/influence it may have. Its not about curse words per se. Its about how u interact with other people and the attitude u present to the world. I'm old enough to have seen a general coarseness that's arisen in American culture. People now seem to think its "cute" to be as vulgar and mean as possible. It's "cool". I see how hip-hop has debased black America. where "brotha" has been replaced with "nigga" and "girl" with "bitch" and "hoe". Words effect people, lets them know what acceptable and what isn't. We do Prince no favors by telling the world that his work is "shit" and "garbage" when really in our hearts we know it is not. I don't know maybe we have reached a point where if u don't personally like something u feel free describe it the lowest possible way. We seem to now live in a throw-away society. where nothing or anyone really has any value. Everything is just here for our entertainment. rant over lol. i can understand where ur getting at but i have 2 b true 2 myself as many times as possible. so if i use vulgartity 2 describe it, that's who I am. point blank and i'm not one of those fans that think prince has created masterpieces with every single song cause he hasn't. putting PE 2 the side of it, there r songs i have that have been unrealsed and should stay that way imo and then there those that NEED 2 come out but instead we get a bullshit track like all the midnights in the world I can't think of one fan who has ever stated that Prince has created a masterpiece with each and every song or album. There are many, many songs that I enjoy by Prince and others that I don't consider masterpieces. No-one unless they wrote 3 songs tops has ever pulled that off. If u must use vulgarity to be true to yourself then I guess u are making a statement about your "true" self. Many of us have benn privy to tracks we consider great that haven't been released, but that is our fault not Prince's. And "all the midnights in world" is a bullshit song because? U don't like it therefore its bullshit. How about just saying u don't like it? Instead u throw an extremely harsh judgement on it that really only pertains to your likes and dislikes. Hey it not one of my favorites but that doesn't make it bullshit. Extremes is the point I'm making. There is a whole spectrum between masterpiece and bullshit. | |
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BeautifulOneJem said: The Rainbow Children.
read people! don't just read titles. | |
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tricky99 said: I don't feel I belittled u. If so sorry, but u made a statement that any number of "artists" could have produced those 3 albums. I asked who? u supplied the "artists". So like I said now I at least have some foundation to weigh your opinion. Nothing wrong with that list of folks. They all have various talents. There is a contingent of folks here that are accused of not being able to see that Prince latest efforts aren't "good". We all have opinions and there is no clear consensus on what's good, bad or indifferent. I think as others have said many of us have been so spoiled by Prince that we can't see the quality of his work because we expect it all be on some mind-blowing level. We are holding him to a unrealistic standard. We take for granted what he does. And yes I guarantee u if u gave any of the "artists" u listed all the time in the world they could not duplicate the contents of the 3 albums u dismiss so readily. I can agree that most expect alot from Prince based on past accomplishments...but why wouldn't we hold Prince to a different standard...if we didn't, would these discussions even matter,...I'm not looking for mind blowing....I'm looking for orginality...I'm looking for diversity...I don't see that as taking anything for granted, I see that as wanting something I know is available but isn't offered...for many years, Prince took us on a musical journey...highs and lows...for better or worse, you knew you'd get something you weren't expecting...I don't have to love all his "art"...but to say that he's done anything beyond phoning in the last three records is giving him credit he doesn't deserve.... and Wycleaf could make Mr.Goodnight a hit... | |
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tricky99 said: L4OATheOriginal said: so r u saying we should all b "p.c."? as an artist, 1st and 4most u have 2 have a thick skin and b open 2 take criticism. if u can't do that then u shouldn't try 2 create art. it's always going 2 b someone likes this someone likes that/i hate it it's shit mentality. and as 4 the kids that may read these threads, trust me they already know the 7 deadly sins b4 logging on2 a site who's lyrics contained every single curse word and sexual acts on wax Maybe I've just grown a lot (like Prince). There is a certain level of respect for others that I personally like to exhibit whether that is in "real-life" or anonymously on the internet. U never know whose reading your words and what effect/influence it may have. Its not about curse words per se. Its about how u interact with other people and the attitude u present to the world. I'm old enough to have seen a general coarseness that's arisen in American culture. People now seem to think its "cute" to be as vulgar and mean as possible. It's "cool". I see how hip-hop has debased black America. where "brotha" has been replaced with "nigga" and "girl" with "bitch" and "hoe". Words effect people, lets them know what acceptable and what isn't. We do Prince no favors by telling the world that his work is "shit" and "garbage" when really in our hearts we know it is not. I don't know maybe we have reached a point where if u don't personally like something u feel free describe it the lowest possible way. We seem to now live in a throw-away society. where nothing or anyone really has any value. Everything is just here for our entertainment. rant over lol. Tricky u r so on point. I can relate 2 everything u have said on your feedback. Some people r just fuking nasty period with that I don't give a fuk attitude. Nice thread | |
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tricky99 said: L4OATheOriginal said: i can understand where ur getting at but i have 2 b true 2 myself as many times as possible. so if i use vulgartity 2 describe it, that's who I am. point blank and i'm not one of those fans that think prince has created masterpieces with every single song cause he hasn't. putting PE 2 the side of it, there r songs i have that have been unrealsed and should stay that way imo and then there those that NEED 2 come out but instead we get a bullshit track like all the midnights in the world I can't think of one fan who has ever stated that Prince has created a masterpiece with each and every song or album. There are many, many songs that I enjoy by Prince and others that I don't consider masterpieces. No-one unless they wrote 3 songs tops has ever pulled that off. If u must use vulgarity to be true to yourself then I guess u are making a statement about your "true" self. Many of us have benn privy to tracks we consider great that haven't been released, but that is our fault not Prince's. And "all the midnights in world" is a bullshit song because? U don't like it therefore its bullshit. How about just saying u don't like it? Instead u throw an extremely harsh judgement on it that really only pertains to your likes and dislikes. Hey it not one of my favorites but that doesn't make it bullshit. Extremes is the point I'm making. There is a whole spectrum between masterpiece and bullshit. if u can't c around fan sites like this that there r fans aka fanatics that think if prince ate a bag of doritios and released it, it would b the worlds greatest song then i suggest u take a more in depth on what people post on these sites cause they r there
and at least i am true 2 myself whether u like my colorful language or not, i'm not trying 2 b a holy roller anytime soon. all the midnights in the world sounds like if barney sang the tune and it's a bullshit track that should have been scrapped from the word go. there r u now satisfied? u want 2 compare that track 2 a beauty of gems like electric intercourse, in a large room with no light, even god is alive is a better tune that hasn't seen the light of day yet, but yet a crappy ass song like all the midnights is so if it makes ur day that i don't use harsh and xtreme words 2 clarify my feelings on that song then try this .."all the midnights in the world and the majority of the songs on planet earth r 2 my XTREME disliking and it sounds like a mule xcreating its waste material"man, he has such an amazing body of music that it's sad to see him constrict it down to the basics. he's too talented for the lineup he's doing. estelle 81 | |
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tricky99 said:[quote] roodboi said: I started this entire "arguement" by stating good was a matter of opinion, so wether mine be under scrutiny or not is of minimal concern to me...but since you've now allowed me to defend only my view and not your version of my view, I will do so... if you need a list, I'll provide it... Chris Brown, Wycleaf Jean, Ruben Studdard, Ne-Yo, Justin Timberlake... ....all could produce the same unimaginative radio friendly wanna be r&b that those albums did... the list could even go on...but is that necessary...my point was the albums are not creative (in my opinion)...the albums are typical of the current state of music (in my opinion)...and (in my opinion) the above artists have done a better job with lack luster music than what Prince has... so there, no longer am I "dashing off" outta fear...
so, scrutinize if you may, I'm sure you have an arguement for how those artists can't produce that level of quality....which in turn would go back to an opinion of said level of quality.... Wow..that was like pulling teeth. Looking over your list yeah I can see all those "performers" writing, producing, and performing the contents of musicology, 3121, and PE lol. Ok now I know where u are coming from. I knew if u came with a list u would reveal yourself. peace.[/quote]  | |
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pennylover said: tricky99 said: Maybe I've just grown a lot (like Prince). There is a certain level of respect for others that I personally like to exhibit whether that is in "real-life" or anonymously on the internet. U never know whose reading your words and what effect/influence it may have. Its not about curse words per se. Its about how u interact with other people and the attitude u present to the world. I'm old enough to have seen a general coarseness that's arisen in American culture. People now seem to think its "cute" to be as vulgar and mean as possible. It's "cool". I see how hip-hop has debased black America. where "brotha" has been replaced with "nigga" and "girl" with "bitch" and "hoe". Words effect people, lets them know what acceptable and what isn't. We do Prince no favors by telling the world that his work is "shit" and "garbage" when really in our hearts we know it is not. I don't know maybe we have reached a point where if u don't personally like something u feel free describe it the lowest possible way. We seem to now live in a throw-away society. where nothing or anyone really has any value. Everything is just here for our entertainment. rant over lol. Tricky u r so on point. I can relate 2 everything u have said on your feedback. Some people r just fuking nasty period with that I don't give a fuk attitude. Nice thread thank u i try my best ..ur 2 kind really  man, he has such an amazing body of music that it's sad to see him constrict it down to the basics. he's too talented for the lineup he's doing. estelle 81 | |
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tricky99 said: funksterr said: Planet Earth is a weak album on so many levels it's ridiculous. All Prince's bad habits that I'd hoped he left behind turned up on that album. The bandwagon chasing thing, The bad rap thing, The mixed-bag-of-styles-all-on-one-album thing that ultimately turns off just about everybody. The JW-approved lyrics The lack of passion in the vocals. The preaching and criticism thing. The bridge-from-nowhere thrown in the middle of an otherwise good tune. Back to the topic... I don't think he's put together a top quality album since The Black Album, and before that "1999" though Gold Experience could have been great, but ultimately falls short. His last great song as writer/producer/performer was "Call My Name" ("The Dance" was good too). He's nailed it live several times recently especialy his 2004 NAACP Performance. What is the bandwagon u speak of? U say the mixed bag turns u off and that almost everybody else too, but it doesn't turn me off and plenty of people like musicology and PE (both mixed bags). SOTT was definitely a mixed bag. Isn't this really your limitation and not his? U have problem with him speaking from a religious perspective? how about when he talked about sex did that bother u? Lack of passion in the vocals? I don't see this but could u be comparing the voice of a 20 something to an almost 50 something? Surely u don't expect his voice to remain constant over time. How does the Gold experince fall short? Are u confusing quality with peference? I'm interested in your views. Why are you so intent on being hypocritical? You're only interested in views that coincide with your own.  | |
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pennylover said: hiliarious, aint it... 
of course, tricky said it wasn't meant to belittle but who could tell.. here's what confuses me...I would wager that many of the people posting here that have stated they dont like how folks voice their opinions about Prince are the same ones who use every word in the book when another artist is mentioned that they believe isn't worthy... the level of hypocrisy in this forum astounds me...you'll hear things like "Prince is the best of all time"....soon followed by "We hold him at an unrealistic standard"...wow, the best shouldn't be held at a higher standard? "the language used here is offensive"...ofcourse thats only true when it's used to post something less than flattering about Prince... it's strange that some here can't make themselves say anything negative about the man...yes, I know some here really think he does no wrong...but some don't like everything he's done and won't say because they feel like they'll do him some sort of disservice... 
sheep..the funniest animals ever....especially the human ones... | |
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roodboi said: pennylover said: hiliarious, aint it...
of course, tricky said it wasn't meant to belittle but who could tell.. here's what confuses me...I would wager that many of the people posting here that have stated they dont like how folks voice their opinions about Prince are the same ones who use every word in the book when another artist is mentioned that they believe isn't worthy... the level of hypocrisy in this forum astounds me...you'll hear things like "Prince is the best of all time"....soon followed by "We hold him at an unrealistic standard"...wow, the best shouldn't be held at a higher standard? "the language used here is offensive"...ofcourse thats only true when it's used to post something less than flattering about Prince... it's strange that some here can't make themselves say anything negative about the man...yes, I know some here really think he does no wrong...but some don't like everything he's done and won't say because they feel like they'll do him some sort of disservice...
sheep..the funniest animals ever....especially the human ones... u wouldn't b talking about the infamous let's stop talking negative about prince thread would u? man, he has such an amazing body of music that it's sad to see him constrict it down to the basics. he's too talented for the lineup he's doing. estelle 81 | |
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L4OATheOriginal said: u wouldn't b talking about the infamous let's stop talking negative about prince thread would u?
missed that one too...
but whats the appeal of not looking past his greatness?? most here would agree that he's great, I think... I don't understand the need to be bothered by ones language or ones opinion...it's all up for debate...but to take the stance that criticism of all things Prince makes you less of a fan is laughable at best...to take the stance that your use of language while voicing an opinion make you a lesser person (which has been implicated here) is laughable at best...a bunch of notions based on opinions about a singer...nothing more, nothing less.. | |
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roodboi said: tricky99 said: I don't feel I belittled u. If so sorry, but u made a statement that any number of "artists" could have produced those 3 albums. I asked who? u supplied the "artists". So like I said now I at least have some foundation to weigh your opinion. Nothing wrong with that list of folks. They all have various talents. There is a contingent of folks here that are accused of not being able to see that Prince latest efforts aren't "good". We all have opinions and there is no clear consensus on what's good, bad or indifferent. I think as others have said many of us have been so spoiled by Prince that we can't see the quality of his work because we expect it all be on some mind-blowing level. We are holding him to a unrealistic standard. We take for granted what he does. And yes I guarantee u if u gave any of the "artists" u listed all the time in the world they could not duplicate the contents of the 3 albums u dismiss so readily. I can agree that most expect alot from Prince based on past accomplishments...but why wouldn't we hold Prince to a different standard...if we didn't, would these discussions even matter,...I'm not looking for mind blowing....I'm looking for orginality...I'm looking for diversity...I don't see that as taking anything for granted, I see that as wanting something I know is available but isn't offered...for many years, Prince took us on a musical journey...highs and lows...for better or worse, you knew you'd get something you weren't expecting...I don't have to love all his "art"...but to say that he's done anything beyond phoning in the last three records is giving him credit he doesn't deserve.... and Wycleaf could make Mr.Goodnight a hit... U are looking for originality and diversity? What would originality sound like? Do u expect a musician to be original after producing 30 years of music? How realistic is that? I was surpised by Xpectation, NEWS, and TRC those all happened within this decade. Unless Prince gets a brain transplant its going to be hard for him to be anything but incrementally "original". A lot of folks complained about "TE amo corozon" but I don't remember him ever doing a spanish sounding ballad. The song "3121" doesn't sound like anything else in his catalog to me. U have TAC, 3121, fury, get on the boad, and the dance on 1 album. How is that not diversity? On the last 3 albums he has given us funk, rap, pop, rock, salsa, soul and acoustic. What's that about diversity again? U say he phoned the albums in. I say any other artist would be proud to have prouced those 3 albums in the last 4 years. If it was that easy (just phoned in) we would have many examples of others doing the same thing in the same time period with the same musical diversity with the same album credits (written, arranged, produced and performed by xxxxx). | |
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pennylover said: tricky99 said: Maybe I've just grown a lot (like Prince). There is a certain level of respect for others that I personally like to exhibit whether that is in "real-life" or anonymously on the internet. U never know whose reading your words and what effect/influence it may have. Its not about curse words per se. Its about how u interact with other people and the attitude u present to the world. I'm old enough to have seen a general coarseness that's arisen in American culture. People now seem to think its "cute" to be as vulgar and mean as possible. It's "cool". I see how hip-hop has debased black America. where "brotha" has been replaced with "nigga" and "girl" with "bitch" and "hoe". Words effect people, lets them know what acceptable and what isn't. We do Prince no favors by telling the world that his work is "shit" and "garbage" when really in our hearts we know it is not. I don't know maybe we have reached a point where if u don't personally like something u feel free describe it the lowest possible way. We seem to now live in a throw-away society. where nothing or anyone really has any value. Everything is just here for our entertainment. rant over lol. Tricky u r so on point. I can relate 2 everything u have said on your feedback. Some people r just fuking nasty period with that I don't give a fuk attitude. Nice thread thank u much | |
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gemini13 said: tricky99 said: What is the bandwagon u speak of? U say the mixed bag turns u off and that almost everybody else too, but it doesn't turn me off and plenty of people like musicology and PE (both mixed bags). SOTT was definitely a mixed bag. Isn't this really your limitation and not his? U have problem with him speaking from a religious perspective? how about when he talked about sex did that bother u? Lack of passion in the vocals? I don't see this but could u be comparing the voice of a 20 something to an almost 50 something? Surely u don't expect his voice to remain constant over time. How does the Gold experince fall short? Are u confusing quality with peference? I'm interested in your views. Why are you so intent on being hypocritical? You're only interested in views that coincide with your own. how so? He gave a list of bullet points. I asked him to expand on his thoughts and answer some questions. If u hold an opinion u should be prepared to defend it with some evidence. That's what a debate is, Feel free to add some thoughts on the subject. | |
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tricky99 said: gemini13 said: Why are you so intent on being hypocritical? You're only interested in views that coincide with your own. how so? He gave a list of bullet points. I asked him to expand on his thoughts and answer some questions. If u hold an opinion u should be prepared to defend it with some evidence. That's what a debate is, Feel free to add some thoughts on the subject. Huh? Why should anyone have to explain or defend an opinion to you? You do come across a little condescendingly, as if critique of all things Prince is not allowed without your approval. I believe that Prince hasn't done anything good since Sign of the Times. Is this strictly my opinion? Yes. Is it any of your business why I happen to think that? Not really. | |
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tricky99 said: U are looking for originality and diversity? What would originality sound like?
originality would not sound like the last three ablbums...they're practically the same...I always find it interesting when I read reviews of Princes new albums....nearly all positive reviews herald the release as a "return to form"...I find myself wondering what form they're talking about, Prince has been many things musically...but until recently, bland wasn't one of them... Do u expect a musician to be original after producing 30 years of music? How realistic is that?
I can't comment as to how realistic it is, but I will defend my stance that all his new music isn't worth such lofty praise based on past accomplishments...I stand by my opinion that his music as of late is on par with most of todays music...uninspired and unoriginal... with the exception of PFUnk..that of course was inspired and that of course has received praise from most fans...it's amazing what the man can do when inspired... it's anything but amazing when he releases three records, nearly identical in format and flow...not since For You and Prince has he released such similar material consecutively... U say he phoned the albums in. I say any other artist would be proud to have prouced those 3 albums in the last 4 years.
of course they would, those albums are typical of todays musical landscape... that beckons the age old comment in this forum "Princes worst music is better than most artists best work."...It's a silly notion but one that is obviously a standard belief here... | |
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tricky99 said: ButterscotchPimp said: well really since Exodus.
after that was tons o crap until The Rainbow Children, and then it's been a pretty steady diet of crap ever since. This is an example I'm talking about. Saying something is crap is not a very interesting critique at all. Really unless someone was discussing soulja boy or some other juvenile music, Just saying something is crap sounds like someone just saying something without any critical thought. Why is Exodus good while Come is crap? There is a certain essense of Prince that cuts across production techniques, genre, and instumentation. That is what I identify as the genuis of Prince. It rears its head no-matter what. The genuis is in the details. Oh, i'm sorry. i wasn't aware that the rule for this thread was an album by album discourse on what i think sucks and what doesn't. And i said AFTER "Exodus". Wasn't "Come" before that? See you still think Prince is a "genius". We differ right there. He was at one point. I don't believe he still is. Trememdous performer, sure. But in my mind he's made ONE good album in the last 10 years or so. So is that specific enough, or do you really want me to break down all the albums track by track and have me dissecting them. Cuz, i can do that too. But i'm sure the purple kool-aid kids would rather i didn't. http://www.facebook.com/p...111?ref=ts
y'all gone keep messin' around wit me and turn me back to the old me...... | |
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gemini13 said: tricky99 said: how so? He gave a list of bullet points. I asked him to expand on his thoughts and answer some questions. If u hold an opinion u should be prepared to defend it with some evidence. That's what a debate is, Feel free to add some thoughts on the subject. Huh? Why should anyone have to explain or defend an opinion to you? You do come across a little condescendingly, as if critique of all things Prince is not allowed without your approval. I believe that Prince hasn't done anything good since Sign of the Times. Is this strictly my opinion? Yes. Is it any of your business why I happen to think that? Not really. No one has to explain anything its a free country and it is completely your or my choice to post on the org. i don't remember putting a gun to anyone head and saying post or else lol. If all u have to offer is Prince is shit or that is shit what's the point? Expand your thoughts. So u seriously think Prince hasn't done anything good since SOTT? Really? Surely u are just teasing. Nothing good since 1987? I guess if I held such a strange opinion I would be defensive too lol. I mean really so just like that a switch went off and the next 20 albums and 100s of songs were all bad ok. I'm sure alot of people here would be interested as to your actual reasoning behind that, but if u don't feel like talking about why its fine. maybe u can't articulate it. I sure wish u could. | |
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ButterscotchPimp said: tricky99 said: This is an example I'm talking about. Saying something is crap is not a very interesting critique at all. Really unless someone was discussing soulja boy or some other juvenile music, Just saying something is crap sounds like someone just saying something without any critical thought. Why is Exodus good while Come is crap? There is a certain essense of Prince that cuts across production techniques, genre, and instumentation. That is what I identify as the genuis of Prince. It rears its head no-matter what. The genuis is in the details. Oh, i'm sorry. i wasn't aware that the rule for this thread was an album by album discourse on what i think sucks and what doesn't. And i said AFTER "Exodus". Wasn't "Come" before that? See you still think Prince is a "genius". We differ right there. He was at one point. I don't believe he still is. Trememdous performer, sure. But in my mind he's made ONE good album in the last 10 years or so. So is that specific enough, or do you really want me to break down all the albums track by track and have me dissecting them. Cuz, i can do that too. But i'm sure the purple kool-aid kids would rather i didn't. U are correct "Come" did come before "Exodus". U are also correct I think Prince is a musical genius. I have never heard anyone say so-and-so is a former genius. Even when Prince is a 80 yr old man he will still be a genius. It's not a term u strip from someone once bestowed. U can argue that the work he is producing is not "genius" work. Does that work for u? I don't remember anyone stripped Einstein of the genius label when he didn't create a new theory of relativity. It would take u much to long to break every single album down, but yes "breaking down is great". Why not do and album or two? We are here because of the music. Why not discuss the music? Just because I will probably disagree with your opinion doesn't mean I'm not interested in it. As a side note I wonder if fans of Duke Ellington (who's career lasted like from the 20's to 70's or something to that effect) who still enjoyed his work past the first 20 years or so were belittled as "black and Tan" kids or something lol. [Edited 1/18/08 5:24am] | |
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roodboi said: tricky99 said: U are looking for originality and diversity? What would originality sound like?
originality would not sound like the last three ablbums...they're practically the same...I always find it interesting when I read reviews of Princes new albums....nearly all positive reviews herald the release as a "return to form"...I find myself wondering what form they're talking about, Prince has been many things musically...but until recently, bland wasn't one of them... I can't comment as to how realistic it is, but I will defend my stance that all his new music isn't worth such lofty praise based on past accomplishments...I stand by my opinion that his music as of late is on par with most of todays music...uninspired and unoriginal... with the exception of PFUnk..that of course was inspired and that of course has received praise from most fans...it's amazing what the man can do when inspired... it's anything but amazing when he releases three records, nearly identical in format and flow...not since For You and Prince has he released such similar material consecutively... U say he phoned the albums in. I say any other artist would be proud to have prouced those 3 albums in the last 4 years.
of course they would, those albums are typical of todays musical landscape... that beckons the age old comment in this forum "Princes worst music is better than most artists best work."...It's a silly notion but one that is obviously a standard belief here... 1) the similarity of the last 3 albums does not lie in the sound of the albums but that all 3 are a collection of songs that don't necessarily have an over-riding general cohesive sound. The songs themselves are all over the map. Also the albums are all relatively the same length. Given that, I would argue that Musicology -- is a lesson about genre 3121 --- is oriented toward new technology and production PE --- is more rock/pop/folk oriented 2) U completely dropped your statement that they lack diversity. U say u can't comment on how realistic your expectations about originality for a long-term artist are. Why is that? U are a rational human being who can look around and see other people's careers both past and present. So given that u are an intelligent, rational, person u can assess what's realistic and what's not. To do otherwise is at best a cop-out at worst a symptom of a delusional mind. 3) U said "but I will defend my stance that all his new music isn't worth such lofty praise based on past accomplishments". Ah ha! Since Prince was able to "travel at the speed of light" and now is only traveling at "the speed of sound" u are highly disappointed. U fail to realize that "the speed of sound" is still praise worthy. 4) I like the song PFUNK too. Is is more inspired then the song "3121"? I don't hear it. Could it be u think it is more inspired because u know about the whole controversy that supposedly inspired it? We have no idea where is head was at when he created 3121. 5) U keep saying that he is unoriginal and sounds like the rest of what's going on. There doesn't seem to be anything factual behind those statements other then pure opinion. U mentioned Chris Brown and Neyo earlier show me there PE album. show me there "Guitar" show me there "3121". And saying "hey look Ne-yo did a ballad and look over here Prince did a ballad too" is not at all what I mean. | |
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tricky99 said: roodboi said: of course they would, those albums are typical of todays musical landscape... that beckons the age old comment in this forum "Princes worst music is better than most artists best work."...It's a silly notion but one that is obviously a standard belief here... 1) the similarity of the last 3 albums does not lie in the sound of the albums but that all 3 are a collection of songs that don't necessarily have an over-riding general cohesive sound. The songs themselves are all over the map. Also the albums are all relatively the same length. Given that, I would argue that Musicology -- is a lesson about genre 3121 --- is oriented toward new technology and production PE --- is more rock/pop/folk oriented 2) U completely dropped your statement that they lack diversity. U say u can't comment on how realistic your expectations about originality for a long-term artist are. Why is that? U are a rational human being who can look around and see other people's careers both past and present. So given that u are an intelligent, rational, person u can assess what's realistic and what's not. To do otherwise is at best a cop-out at worst a symptom of a delusional mind. 3) U said "but I will defend my stance that all his new music isn't worth such lofty praise based on past accomplishments". Ah ha! Since Prince was able to "travel at the speed of light" and now is only traveling at "the speed of sound" u are highly disappointed. U fail to realize that "the speed of sound" is still praise worthy. 4) I like the song PFUNK too. Is is more inspired then the song "3121"? I don't hear it. Could it be u think it is more inspired because u know about the whole controversy that supposedly inspired it? We have no idea where is head was at when he created 3121. 5) U keep saying that he is unoriginal and sounds like the rest of what's going on. There doesn't seem to be anything factual behind those statements other then pure opinion. U mentioned Chris Brown and Neyo earlier show me there PE album. show me there "Guitar" show me there "3121". And saying "hey look Ne-yo did a ballad and look over here Prince did a ballad too" is not at all what I mean. | |
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the above comment wasn't a mistake...it's what I really thnk about all your bullshit...
you've spoke about decorum and tact, but within your posts take cleverly disguised potshots at anyone with a different opinion...most of us aren't delusional, our opinions don't define us, and our choice of language doesn't speak of our character...however, your posts speak volumes about you... you're a twat...mods...snip at will | |
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roodboi said: the above comment wasn't a mistake...it's what I really thnk about all your bullshit...
you've spoke about decorum and tact, but within your posts take cleverly disguised potshots at anyone with a different opinion...most of us aren't delusional, our opinions don't define us, and our choice of language doesn't speak of our character...however, your posts speak volumes about you... you're a twat...mods...snip at will Wow a twat! thanks! I really think thats the first time I have ever been called a twat. I like it. Maybe I will change my logon to twat99. I won't call u any names because I'm not mad at u and bear u no ill will. But this may be a case of "if u can't stand the heat get out of the kitchen" and I guess u have vacated the kitchen. I was trying to be as logical and thought provoking as I can be. All of us hold opinions. Its when those opinions are probed is when we really get to see if that's how we feel and does what we feel have any reality behind it. Its a lot like religion. Many will sprout of how they believe this or that but when pressed to explain why they believe it suddenly they are insulted or mute or make a quick exit. I'm a great believer in rational thought. We would all be less prone to manipulation if we took the time to actually think about why we believe something. Part of that process is explainly to others why u believe something. It should clarify your beliefs in your own mind. If it doesn't u need to ask youself why? | |
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tricky99 said: roodboi said: the above comment wasn't a mistake...it's what I really thnk about all your bullshit...
you've spoke about decorum and tact, but within your posts take cleverly disguised potshots at anyone with a different opinion...most of us aren't delusional, our opinions don't define us, and our choice of language doesn't speak of our character...however, your posts speak volumes about you... you're a twat...mods...snip at will Wow a twat! thanks! I really think thats the first time I have ever been called a twat. I like it. Maybe I will change my logon to twat99. I won't call u any names because I'm not mad at u and bear u no ill will. But this may be a case of "if u can't stand the heat get out of the kitchen" and I guess u have vacated the kitchen. I was trying to be as logical and thought provoking as I can be. All of us hold opinions. Its when those opinions are probed is when we really get to see if that's how we feel and does what we feel have any reality behind it. Its a lot like religion. Many will sprout of how they believe this or that but when pressed to explain why they believe it suddenly they are insulted or mute or make a quick exit. I'm a great believer in rational thought. We would all be less prone to manipulation if we took the time to actually think about why we believe something. Part of that process is explainly to others why u believe something. It should clarify your beliefs in your own mind. If it doesn't u need to ask youself why? again..twist it to your needs.... 
I don't think you're looking for reality behind opinions, I think you're looking for an opportunity to debase others opinions...of course, you don't see it that way...you are doing the org a great service by proving us all wrong for our point of view...Prince himself should come give you a pat on the back, you deserve it...you can have your kitchen, it's kitchens like yours that make this place so entertaining...I'm not mad either but rather reassured why I post so infrequently in this forum..theres no tolerence from either side of the arguement...honestly, this thread started out great and props to you for that...but along the way you turned it into a steaming pile...again, props... | |
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roodboi said: tricky99 said: Wow a twat! thanks! I really think thats the first time I have ever been called a twat. I like it. Maybe I will change my logon to twat99. I won't call u any names because I'm not mad at u and bear u no ill will. But this may be a case of "if u can't stand the heat get out of the kitchen" and I guess u have vacated the kitchen. I was trying to be as logical and thought provoking as I can be. All of us hold opinions. Its when those opinions are probed is when we really get to see if that's how we feel and does what we feel have any reality behind it. Its a lot like religion. Many will sprout of how they believe this or that but when pressed to explain why they believe it suddenly they are insulted or mute or make a quick exit. I'm a great believer in rational thought. We would all be less prone to manipulation if we took the time to actually think about why we believe something. Part of that process is explainly to others why u believe something. It should clarify your beliefs in your own mind. If it doesn't u need to ask youself why? again..twist it to your needs....
I don't think you're looking for reality behind opinions, I think you're looking for an opportunity to debase others opinions...of course, you don't see it that way...you are doing the org a great service by proving us all wrong for our point of view...Prince himself should come give you a pat on the back, you deserve it...you can have your kitchen, it's kitchens like yours that make this place so entertaining...I'm not mad either but rather reassured why I post so infrequently in this forum..theres no tolerence from either side of the arguement...honestly, this thread started out great and props to you for that...but along the way you turned it into a steaming pile...again, props... Oh please! U just didn't have any answers to the questions I posed. So now u run around acting as if I called u names and insulted your mother. U can hold whatever opinion u want on Prince or anything else, but if u put them out to the world to see then be prepared for folks to ask WHY? | |
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tricky99 said: Going back to the original statement "Prince hasn't done anything good since...", that is such a dismissive way of critiquing any artist. And really it just isn't true. I don't believe any one of his so-called fans can listen to PE and truly believe that to be true.
Dude, it's true. And Prince agrees with me. The FACT is that in the 1980s, Prince was always pushing his latest music. Ditto in the mid-1990s. Outside of that he's almost always fallen back on the hits, while virtually ignoring his current album. Except for the time he pretended to be a jazzfunkrock muso bore -- and even back then he fased out his new music pretty fast. tricky99 said: There is always wit and philosophy in his lyrics and ambition in the music. What is there not to love?
Seems like you enjoy settling for stuff that isn't worthy of kissing the feet of second-best stuff. © Bart Van Hemelen
This posting is provided AS IS with no warranties, and confers no rights. It is not authorized by Prince or the NPG Music Club. You assume all risk for your use. All rights reserved. | |
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