You seem to think that Prince and Andre's dislike for voting will influence people. I am saying it will not.

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Prince has sold a lot more records that Talib !!! Having respect from the independent scence does not mean anything when you no longer have a recording contract. Which Talib will not have despite his great lyrics. The brother just does not have flow or star power.

[color=blue:40d7756c18]Ah, the ever-defensive Laura. Spare us the bullshit, sweetie. Telling people not to vote is telling people to throw away choice. PERIOD. If you agree with Prince on this issue, you Prince and Androne 3000 are all WRONG for that. Like I said, its not just about the politicians, its about the issues, too.[/color]

Um, I really don't think he was stating that people should not vote; given that the song highlights the way many people feel today about the current power structure, I think he was simply pointing out that this is the way many people feel about voting and who the choices are, and kind of forcing "Mr. Man" to ask himself the question "why do people feel that their votes do not count, and why do they think all politicians are the same?" I mean, the song is a letter to "Mr. Man," so I assume that these are questions being asked of him. Which goes to the fact that there are only two parties to choose from. Which, in and of itself is fucked up. So when you get down to it, are the two parties really that different? I don't think so, and never have. I think the song is pretty simple. It states a very simple message that is being over-analyzed here. It may not be Bob Dylan, but he gets his point across. If Prince is a fool for saying something as basic as this, then what is anyone supposed to say? Do singers now have to create a mini-novel to say somethng this obvious?

Good post. And no doubt AG and MG had their insecurities! It’s not that I’m disparaging Prince or neglecting to appreciate his talent for the cryptic. It’s just that Prince’s cryptic, consciously ambiguous song writing allows him to only go so far and say so much. Of course, Prince’s style allows him to create a kind of interactive space for the listener that MG, AG, etc. did not create but when you get down to it the things that matter most to me in a song writing and singing are generally (not always) lacking in Prince. I’m talking about emotional honesty and sincerity. Yeah I suppose it’s possible to be consciously ambiguous and emotionally sincere but after a while don’t you begin to ask yourself if the cryptic is a mask? Just to take this conversation to another place - Joyce as well as Ulysses, Blake wrote Songs of Innocence and Experience as well as Jerusalem. Prince’s has very few “serious” songs that are also direct. Why is that? There are many more direct love songs (although still generally operatic, showy, and impersonal) but very few direct songs about politics and religion. When I listen to Curtis I really feel like I’m listening to a person who struggles with all his being over religion and politics. When I listen to Prince I here someone who’s latching onto something in a very momentary and shallow way - and the indulgence in the cryptic does not help. Take a song like “Amen” or “Something to Believe In” and compare it to ANY religious Prince song. Take a song like “Family Name” and compare it to “Don’t Call me Nigger, Whitey”…I’m not trying to come out like my shit is objective truth but I have a hard time seeing how the brilliantly cryptic Prince can hang (in lyrics and intellect) with his precursors. Prince has always lacked the edge and sophistication of the Great soul singers of the 60's and 70's.

And just because a song is about shaking your ASS or getting some lovin doesn't mean it can't be brillaintly written.

Um, I really don't think he was stating that people should not vote; given that the song highlights the way many people feel today about the current power structure, I think he was simply pointing out that this is the way many people feel about voting and who the choices are, and kind of forcing "Mr. Man" to ask himself the question "why do people feel that their votes do not count, and why do they think all politicians are the same?" I mean, the song is a letter to "Mr. Man," so I assume that these are questions being asked of him. Which goes to the fact that there are only two parties to choose from. Which, in and of itself is fucked up. So when you get down to it, are the two parties really that different? I don't think so, and never have. I think the song is pretty simple. It states a very simple message that is being over-analyzed here. It may not be Bob Dylan, but he gets his point across. If Prince is a fool for saying something as basic as this, then what is anyone supposed to say? Do singers now have to create a mini-novel to say somethng this obvious?

And where in my post did u get that from.Some of the genuinly brilliant dance songs have had great lyrics.
However in Prince's case,a lot of his stuff is very basic ,blatant in your face lyrics that a your average 13 yr old could write.
[This message was edited Tue Aug 17 9:57:53 2004 by silentflute]

"but generally cryptic social commentary is the product of the uniformed and naïve."

[color=blue:c02c005ec3]Wow, that was kinda harsh, but I do agree with the above statement. This has been my problem with a few artists, but Prince has taken it above and beyond at times. So many of his fans are always searching for the "secret message in the song" because his lyrics are often fused with many double entenders, etc. Occasionaly Prince is clear, most times he is clever, but when it comes to politics & religion and social issues, taking poetic liscense just comes off as a cop out. Anyone seeking political understanding from Prince deserves all the confusion they're going to get. Sometimes with Prince's songs, the message gets clouded by the "puzzle". This generation is much more direct than the 70s kids who comprise a very large portion of Prince's audience. They don't want to hear double talk, they want clear and direct and respect nothing else. That is a small echo of the overall tone of society in general these days. They want Talieb Kweli, Jadakiss, Anthony Hamilton, etc. instead of cleverly masked vagueness. I guess you could say its a sign of the times. I just chalk it up to Prince being Prince. You can get caught up in the fun of it, then let it pass...or you can take Prince way too seriously and end up neurotic. Just take Prince's lyrics with a grain of salt, call it a Princeism and let it pass.[/color]

WHO FUCKIN' CARES!!! WHY DO YOU FEEL THE NEED TO ANALYZE EVERY
THING HE SAYS OR DOES? JUST SIT BACK HAVE A COKE AND A SMILE AND SHUT THE FUCK UP.

Who said Talib had star power? He has no interest in being a star or trying to sell. He is interested in making good music, which thanks to the internet and places like hiphopsite and sandboxautomatic, can be easily distributed without major label support. In many ways, Prince and him have a lot in common. Prince didn't release TRC, ONA, N.E.W.S or Xpectation in an attempt to sell CDs or be a star again, he did it to release great music.

By the way, "Get By" was more of a staple on urban radio stations than any song Prince has released since ... wow, Eye Hate U perhaps?

Who said Talib had star power? He has no interest in being a star or trying to sell. He is interested in making good music, which thanks to the internet and places like hiphopsite and sandboxautomatic, can be easily distributed without major label support. In many ways, Prince and him have a lot in common. Prince didn't release TRC, ONA, N.E.W.S or Xpectation in an attempt to sell CDs or be a star again, he did it to release great music.

By the way, "Get By" was more of a staple on urban radio stations than any song Prince has released since ... wow, Eye Hate U perhaps?

Unfortunately, Prince does not really have that much to say.

I don't even recall "Get By" and I listen to urban radio everyday at work. If I went out on the street and mentioned Talib's name I bet I could not find 10 people who know who this brother
is.

Prince has enough of following to go independent. Talib does not have that kind of following.

Urban radio is shit. Here: Talib Kweli
4 CDs and no following? LOL! Y-O-U don't know, but others do.

Well i'm not sure how we could judge who has the greater intelllect. I never got the sense that Mayfield, Gaye or Wonder are towering intellectuals. Just becuase u can write a heartfelt song about the state of the world doesn't denote some genuis IQ. I'm not familiar with the songs u namecheck with the exception of "Whitey". I don't find it particularly brilliant musically. The conundrum that it explores about our prejudices is however memorable. But its a product of that time. I don't know that it would work now. I find a song by prince like "Race" to be just as interesting without the hot-button words (whitey and nigger). To me a phrase like "were all bones when were dead" succently puts across the point in the song that the idea of race is a fallacy. Plus its got a good beat lol. Prince lacks edge? Surely u jest. The brotha has been edgy since day one. I mean that in that he has always played by his own rules. He doesn't fit cateogories and can't be completely defined. Even now this far into his career we all wonder what's next. Plus prince is not a soul singer. That just something is does amongst other things. Keep it coming.