"...But really what are we to expect? Prince spends all his time making music and today even the music sounds recycled and uninspired."

Prince has this new album out called "Musicology." It is receiving wondeful reviews from both critics and fans alike and just selling like hotcakes. It may not inspire you, but that doesn't mean it is uninspired. It is a fairly positive album so it might not mix well with those who are so negative.


"...Prince get out of the house, take a trip with your wife, read the paper.."

Obviously I don't keep as watchful of an eye on Prince as you do (since you seem to know his vacation habits as well as how much time he spends at home), but he is also currently on tour. That means that he is traveling all across North America... and his wife is with him! I don't know if you happened to catch Prince on the Tavis Smiley show, but he discussed current events at length and he seemed fairly up to date on the state of the world. I think Tavis even alluded to Prince being a "news junkie".

Anyway, sorry you are so mad at Prince for not being like you want him to be.

I agree, but..... its just about good pop music, hes never tried to be Bob Dylan or Bruce Springsteen.
I knever really cared too much about his lyrics because Prince was about great grooves & inovative pop music.

Nowadays his music is pretty lame, so its harder for people to look past his lyrics.

BlaqueKnight said:

-----
Did you not type this

"Telling people not to vote is telling people to throw away choice. PERIOD. If you agree with Prince on this issue, you Prince and Androne 3000 are all WRONG for that"


You seem to think that Prince and Andre's dislike for voting will influence people. I am saying it will not.

"Aint no sense in voting
Same song with a different name"


HONEST TO GOD TRUTH!!!!!
Why vote, they are all LIARS!!!!!
Pay the president $5.15 an hour & see how many people jump for the job, like DUH!

P.S. I voted once, & he taught our children that,
Oral Sex is NOT sex, & Cigars are not for smokin.
Hmmmmm..... I shoulda voted for someone who
admits to inhaling?
I did'nt vote again

sosgemini said:

Thank you very much

Igottixs4det said:

That's one of the most stupid things I have ever heard by any artist and IMO it's a shame that they come from Prince .

BlaqueKnight said:

From what I heard André 3000 had stated that he was wrong that he had not been voting before

The point made is pretty valid--Prince's lyrics have never been his strength.Ocassionally he has his moments of brilliance,but the it's pretty small percent in a vast catalogue of work.A Stevie/Marvin/Joni/TTD/Sting he'll never be--lyrically.
[This message was edited Tue Aug 17 6:53:26 2004 by silentflute]

aklaw said:

I like the above post bunches.

The title of this post was deliberately provocative – perhaps too much, don’t want to turn people off before they read. As for being a “newbie” – ahh no. Since 1988 there has not been a time when I did not own every major P release. Of course, I got rid of some of them. P’s quality control is seriously lacking.

While “Sign of the Times” is a great record it’s not because of the political rhetoric, which by P’s standards is coherent and relevant, rather it’s the music that’s so good. I’m a music fan first and a Prince fan second. It’s from this perspective that I listen to records like “Stand” “Curtis” “What’s Going On” “Chocolate City” and “Sign of the Times” and honestly folks Prince just does not have the verbal acuity and perceptual depth of his precursors. If we’re focusing on the lyrics this applies to all genres – spiritual songs (both Curtis and AG resonate much more deeply with me), biographical songs (rather listen to David Ruffin or Bill Withers), political songs (as this post addresses) and even, in my opinion, love songs (Prince has never been as sincere and open as either Curtis Mayfield or Marvin Gaye).

Contrast Marvin Gaye’s “Hear My Dear” with Prince’s love songs. Here’s Marvin Gaye making a record about his x, talking personally about things that they experienced. In fact the letter sounds like a record but not to “Mr. Man” but to “Anna” his x-wife. Prince veils everything or, if it’s not veiled like “Adore”, it’s staged and operatic. (Of course there are exceptions, I really like the Temptations inspired “Forever in my Life”). He lies about his kid on Opera, can’t refer to any of his harem by name in all his many love and hate songs, and fakes crying during the acoustic set on the Musicology tour. Now I realize this sounds harsh but I really can’t stand this kind of shit. As for the music, the music is brilliant although I’m one of those Prince fans you all love to hate who thinks that the 80’s material is much stronger.

I’m not writing to convince. I’m writing to be convinced.

I like the above post bunches.

The title of this post was deliberately provocative – perhaps too much, don’t want to turn people off before they read. As for being a “newbie” – ahh no. Since 1988 there has not been a time when I did not own every major P release. Of course, I got rid of some of them. P’s quality control is seriously lacking.

While “Sign of the Times” is a great record it’s not because of the political rhetoric, which by P’s standards is coherent and relevant, rather it’s the music that’s so good. I’m a music fan first and a Prince fan second. It’s from this perspective that I listen to records like “Stand” “Curtis” “What’s Going On” “Chocolate City” and “Sign of the Times” and honestly folks Prince just does not have the verbal acuity and perceptual depth of his precursors. If we’re focusing on the lyrics this applies to all genres – spiritual songs (both Curtis and AG resonate much more deeply with me), biographical songs (rather listen to David Ruffin or Bill Withers), political songs (as this post addresses) and even, in my opinion, love songs (Prince has never been as sincere and open as either Curtis Mayfield or Marvin Gaye).

Contrast Marvin Gaye’s “Hear My Dear” with Prince’s love songs. Here’s Marvin Gaye making a record about his x, talking personally about things that they experienced. In fact the letter sounds like a record but not to “Mr. Man” but to “Anna” his x-wife. Prince veils everything or, if it’s not veiled like “Adore”, it’s staged and operatic. (Of course there are exceptions, I really like the Temptations inspired “Forever in my Life”). He lies about his kid on Opera, can’t refer to any of his harem by name in all his many love and hate songs, and fakes crying during the acoustic set on the Musicology tour. Now I realize this sounds harsh but I really can’t stand this kind of shit. As for the music, the music is brilliant although I’m one of those Prince fans you all love to hate who thinks that the 80’s material is much stronger.

I’m not writing to convince. I’m writing to be convinced.[/quote]


I hear where u are coming from. But really u don't need to start a discussion with calling Prince a "fool". That hardly leads credance to your views if u start with such a negative conotation. I really love those other artists u mentioned and we each have our favorites. But the world is wide. Great writers come from all kind of different perspectives. I don't downgrade Prince as a lyrist just because he doesn't write like Gaye or whomever. Marvin doesn't write like Joni nor she like Hendrix. That doesn't lessen each one's particular or peculiar gift.

Anyone who says that Prince isn't a gifted writer doesn't really get Prince. He is highly unusaul as a writer. Some just don't like things to be complex and cyptic. They want everything to be spelled out literally. Prince's gift is that he leaves lots of room for interpretation. Pick up almost any of his song and there is something clever in the words. I have never thought of Gaye or Wonder as clever writers. There strength for me lies in the way their words convey emotion. I think Prince has run the gamit with his words as with the music. With Prince u think u are listening to a party song (1999) but he has a deeper agenda than what's on the surface, look closer.

tricky99 said:

I hear where u are coming from. But really u don't need to start a discussion with calling Prince a "fool". That hardly leads credance to your views if u start with such a negative conotation. I really love those other artists u mentioned and we each have our favorites. But the world is wide. Great writers come from all kind of different perspectives. I don't downgrade Prince as a lyrist just because he doesn't write like Gaye or whomever. Marvin doesn't write like Joni nor she like Hendrix. That doesn't lessen each one's particular or peculiar gift.

Anyone who says that Prince isn't a gifted writer doesn't really get Prince. He is highly unusaul as a writer. Some just don't like things to be complex and cyptic. They want everything to be spelled out literally. Prince's gift is that he leaves lots of room for interpretation. Pick up almost any of his song and there is something clever in the words. I have never thought of Gaye or Wonder as clever writers. There strength for me lies in the way their words convey emotion. I think Prince has run the gamit with his words as with the music. With Prince u think u are listening to a party song (1999) but he has a deeper agenda than what's on the surface, look closer.[/quote]

laurarichardson said:

Neither Prince nor Talib Kwali sell cd's. That is not the issue. The fact that an album does or does not sell often has nothing to do with whether it is good or not. D&P is probably the worst album Prince has put out in the last 15 years, but guess what... it's the highest selling.

In the independent scene, Kwali gets tons of respect, just like Prince does from true music lovers, not that the two should be compared as artists. Prince is light years ahead of Kwali and most other cats out these days.

Relative to most other artists though out these days, Kwali's lyrics are pretty potent (especially compared with talentless rappers who do sell, i.e., 50 Cent et al).

tricky99 said:

I agree. But while P's gift for the cryptic allows him to write brilliant pop songs the more deliberately "serious" songs often fall flat. Sometimes cryptic writing is a mask for insecurity and shallow understanding. Isn’t interesting that Prince just does not seem to have it in him to be as sincere, vulnerable, and honest as Al Green, Bill Whithers, Marvin Gaye, Curtis Mayfield, Sly Stone, David Ruffin, Aretha Franklin, Otis Redding, L. Rawls…just to name a few. But Prince has always been more pop than soul.

17ways69days said:

I don't understand this differeniation u are making between pop and soul, as if one is more valid than the other. All those people were full of insecurity. Gaye was a bundle of insecurities. Sly stone and Ruffin both were drug victims. Al green has struggled with secular vs religious music. They don't have any more answers to life than Prince or anyone else. Prince writes cyptically because that is what is does. That's his talent. U may not like it but that's not a reason to disparge it. U simply prefer their particular way of conveying there thoughts and feelings. Some pepole are more comfortable putting their stuff out their. That's why we treasure Marvin or whomever. On the other hand there are plenty of songs where prince is emotional. They might not be in the standard soul tradition but that doesn't make them less potent.

BanishedBrian said:

-----
Prince has sold a lot more records that Talib !!! Having respect from the independent scence does not mean anything when you no longer have a recording contract. Which Talib will not have despite his great lyrics. The brother just does not have flow or star power.

laurarichardson said:

Who said Talib had star power? He has no interest in being a star or trying to sell. He is interested in making good music, which thanks to the internet and places like hiphopsite and sandboxautomatic, can be easily distributed without major label support. In many ways, Prince and him have a lot in common. Prince didn't release TRC, ONA, N.E.W.S or Xpectation in an attempt to sell CDs or be a star again, he did it to release great music.

By the way, "Get By" was more of a staple on urban radio stations than any song Prince has released since ... wow, Eye Hate U perhaps?

tricky99 said:

Good post. And no doubt AG and MG had their insecurities! It’s not that I’m disparaging Prince or neglecting to appreciate his talent for the cryptic. It’s just that Prince’s cryptic, consciously ambiguous song writing allows him to only go so far and say so much. Of course, Prince’s style allows him to create a kind of interactive space for the listener that MG, AG, etc. did not create but when you get down to it the things that matter most to me in a song writing and singing are generally (not always) lacking in Prince. I’m talking about emotional honesty and sincerity. Yeah I suppose it’s possible to be consciously ambiguous and emotionally sincere but after a while don’t you begin to ask yourself if the cryptic is a mask? Just to take this conversation to another place - Joyce as well as Ulysses, Blake wrote Songs of Innocence and Experience as well as Jerusalem. Prince’s has very few “serious” songs that are also direct. Why is that? There are many more direct love songs (although still generally operatic, showy, and impersonal) but very few direct songs about politics and religion. When I listen to Curtis I really feel like I’m listening to a person who struggles with all his being over religion and politics. When I listen to Prince I here someone who’s latching onto something in a very momentary and shallow way - and the indulgence in the cryptic does not help. Take a song like “Amen” or “Something to Believe In” and compare it to ANY religious Prince song. Take a song like “Family Name” and compare it to “Don’t Call me Nigger, Whitey”…I’m not trying to come out like my shit is objective truth but I have a hard time seeing how the brilliantly cryptic Prince can hang (in lyrics and intellect) with his precursors. Prince has always lacked the edge and sophistication of the Great soul singers of the 60's and 70's.

silentflute said:

WTF???
Please please find a lyric sheet to just about any of his music.
Prince is a BRILLIANT lyricist, one of the best ever.

I do agree that Prince doesn't tackle political topics very well...he's too
vague, like he's trying to avoid controversy. Just not his bag.

laurarichardson said:

Are you absolutely sure? Prince certainly has a few drones around here trained. Whenever he says something, some people immediately start looking for the hidden message. Many people would rather listen to Prince & Andre's opinions than politicians.

I didnt know we were expected to think of Prince as one of the great philosophers of this time.

I didnt know we were expected to think of Prince as one of the great philosophers of this time.

17ways69days said:

Well i'm not sure how we could judge who has the greater intelllect. I never got the sense that Mayfield, Gaye or Wonder are towering intellectuals. Just becuase u can write a heartfelt song about the state of the world doesn't denote some genuis IQ. I'm not familiar with the songs u namecheck with the exception of "Whitey". I don't find it particularly brilliant musically. The conundrum that it explores about our prejudices is however memorable. But its a product of that time. I don't know that it would work now. I find a song by prince like "Race" to be just as interesting without the hot-button words (whitey and nigger). To me a phrase like "were all bones when were dead" succently puts across the point in the song that the idea of race is a fallacy. Plus its got a good beat lol. Prince lacks edge? Surely u jest. The brotha has been edgy since day one. I mean that in that he has always played by his own rules. He doesn't fit cateogories and can't be completely defined. Even now this far into his career we all wonder what's next. Plus prince is not a soul singer. That just something is does amongst other things. Keep it coming.

Revolution said:

Can't agree with you.For every Joy In Repitition there are 5 Feel U Up's.For every Shy there are 5 Jack U Off's.
Don't get me wrong,when he's brilliant he's brilliant,but those moments are so far and few in between.Put it this way--only about 30% of his entire song catalogue are lyrically great(an that's being generous)

silentflute said:

Well now think about it. How many songs has prince written? Only God could right that many songs and have them all be brilliant. That doesn't even pass the logic test.

And just because a song is about shaking your ASS or getting some lovin doesn't mean it can't be brillaintly written.

17ways69days said:

Isn't it also interesting that Al, Bill, Marvin, Curtis, Sly, David, Aretha, Otis and Lou never had P's gift for the cryptic? I look at Prince the way i do a Mcgwire, Aaron or Ruth. It's worth the price of admission just to watch them get up to bat and swing for the fences. When P hits a home run it's as majestic as any of the greats...but he is going to swing and miss...that's the nature of the beast. I'm just glad he's willing to still go up to the plate and take his swings because for every strikeout (Ronnie talk to Russia/United States of Division) I get a home run (SOTT/Family Name).

All the greats have their strengths and weaknesses...I just respect their ability and guts to still step up to the plate.

coachsean said:

exactly!

tricky99 said:

Your missing the point.No one can hit a home run all the time and I'm not expecting that.But the ratio of songs that are lyrically genius compared to how many songs he's put out is significantly less then the aformentioned artists.It's the ol debate of quantity versus quality.
[This message was edited Tue Aug 17 9:50:38 2004 by silentflute]

BlaqueKnight said:

Um, I really don't think he was stating that people should not vote; given that the song highlights the way many people feel today about the current power structure, I think he was simply pointing out that this is the way many people feel about voting and who the choices are, and kind of forcing "Mr. Man" to ask himself the question "why do people feel that their votes do not count, and why do they think all politicians are the same?" I mean, the song is a letter to "Mr. Man," so I assume that these are questions being asked of him. Which goes to the fact that there are only two parties to choose from. Which, in and of itself is fucked up. So when you get down to it, are the two parties really that different? I don't think so, and never have. I think the song is pretty simple. It states a very simple message that is being over-analyzed here. It may not be Bob Dylan, but he gets his point across. If Prince is a fool for saying something as basic as this, then what is anyone supposed to say? Do singers now have to create a mini-novel to say somethng this obvious?